Alezya

They should have just changed it to "end of each phase", instead of end of combat phase. Unnecessary change tbh.

I don't know, I'm just asking how it is played. I never really got the chance to play vs KO, I never had the chance to be paired with our only local KO player. And we are not using Garrison terrains.

How do you play it vs garrisoned unit? You roll only 6 dices for the Ironclad? or Ironclad + every unit inside it?

Saturday was tournament day, and I had the "chance" to go against that same opponent in that same scenario. He was playing the same list. Position over Power. I just made a minor change in my list, as I didn't have the slickblade models yet. I wanted a mortal unit choice (for Depraved Unity), and a GC choice (for the GC BTs) so I went for a shardspeaker (with tunnel master) for its utility on some close combat match-ups with the extra -1 save and -1A. Traded Slickblades for Shardspeaker and mesmerizing mirror. And went for Battle regiment = 3 drops. When I'll have my slickblades, I'll definitely go for 2 drops. After the first game, we discussed it, and it was obvious that a single double turn from his side would hurt so much. The tournament game for the first 2 turns went exactly the same way our first game went. Except I scored one more VP thanks to my 2nd GC. But he got the double turn on T2-T3, killed my KoS + Shalaxi in same turn (negating my wards on Shalaxi). I managed to score a few points, but failed my BT in T4, and was tabled in T5, messing with my GS anyways. If I won the T3 initiative roll, I would've scored much more VP, put some serious VP difference, and maybe I could've negated one of his BT. "AoE" MWs are just... Game 2 vs Ogor list - Prize of Gallet FLOSH Butcher 2*4 Ironguts 6 Gluttons 20 gnoblars 2 Ironblasters Pretty straightforward game. I chose to go 2nd, as I deployed quite back in the board. I knew I couldn't outrange the Ironblasters, but at least I'd force him to open himself a bit, I activated the objective nearby the FLOSH to force the FLOSH to contest it, he went into the activated objective, then I went there but he rolled a 6" redeploy, therefore put himself out of charge. He was at 11-12" range of Shalaxi, but I forced his Finest Hour. I won the initiative on T2, and chose to go 2nd to activate my own objective, He got scared a bit, so he continued to play his castle. No big dmg. I killed his stuff, he killed my stuff, I killed his stuff. He killed my Keeper on an unleash hell (damn you gruesome trophy racks!) but then Shalaxi did the job. I finish almost tabled (3 seekers left) but won the game as I had control over the objectives for like 3-4 turns? Game 3 vs Ogor Meatfist list - Realmstone Cache Kragnos 5 Tyrants w/ Brawlerguts (the +1 to mw on the charge name) 3*4 leadbelchers I just farmed Depravity points like crazy on this game: He was shooting every pistol with his tyrants, I was offering a lot of temptation dices, he started by taking the mws, but then he would just die to it, so as he needed the charge mws momentum to get into combat with my important stuff, he started to give me depravity points. It was a farm fest. I went first, seekers run to block his moves just in front of his deployment zone, and annoy him the most I can. First screen of demonettes to take the mws. Shalaxi in the center nearby Kragnos's side, KoS on the other side. Scored my BT, scored 1 + more. Then he goes, he had to go around my unit of seekers, killed them off by shooting/charge. Managed a 17" charge on a leadbelcher unit, impacted my KoS (6 or 7mws in). He activated somewhere else, so I activated my KoS in return: Bim Bam boum killed them leadbelchers right away!! He won the initiative, took the double turn, he moves in, I redeploy with my first screen of demonettes to put enough distances between the charges + pile in + hitting range, he charges with his tyrants into my demonettes, killed them off, managed to charge with Kragnos on Shalaxi: He rolls 2-1-1 on the charge Rerolls: 6-6-5 and scores 30MWs (6 and 5) on Shalaxi. Last time I played against him, I was playing Archaon and he did 36 mws, so, pretty standard stuff for him! Obviously Shalaxi dies. He piles in with Kragnos to kill my KoS but was unsuccessfull at it! Thanks to temptation dices, I was at 12 already. -1 to hit (I can't recall if he had a CP left. He used one for the rr charge for Kragnos, but can't remember what he did with the other one), Finest hour + mystic shield + all out defense + Aegis + good rolls gave me the tankyness needed. The KoS killed Kragnos in return (Icon of Excess was used). Then we just continued trading units, but I got the upper hand in the end. Temptation dices were super frustrating for him, whereas were useless vs the Seraphon player. Got hold on the objectives, some summoning allowed me to score more, did my GS, etc... Finishing third of the tournament with 2W 1L. Quite happy about it! The list is finally making sense, and I manage to play it better than before. I do less mistakes than before, specially with my demonettes. Demonettes are good with 24DPs in. They shine with it. Otherwise not so much. Seekers are very useful tools. The Masque is strong, put some pressure on the deployment and is useful for 1st turn DP generation against some armies. But sometimes I feel like I could put something else... Invaders KoS + Shalaxi solid choices. Less and less convinced by the Mesmerising Mirror, due to my inability to get 6s

I played vs them yesterday. The Seraphon book (or Kroak list) seems just stupid. Period. We played on Position over Power, and going first + winning all initiative rolls until T5 (I just lost the last roll when I was already tabled: in T5 the idea was to go first and score 1 pt for holding 1 lol) won me the game because I was able to score enough points during the first 3 turns (hold 1-2-more + 1 for GC on flank objective + BT each turn), but otherwise it was a quite tough game... He wanted to test some stuff, so went with a funky list: Kroak, 2 slanns (general with what gves 2 pts instead of 1 each time he casts some stuff), astrolith bearer, starpriest (or whatever his name is), oracle on troglodon (monster stuff), 2*5 saurus, 10 skinks. Literally no screens at all, but crazy "firepower" (14 casts a turn or something like this?). I was playing Invaders KoS General, Best of the best, Icon, Flaming Weapon + Lash, Aegis Shalaxi Lash + Pavane, Aegis Epitome Frenzy + Pavane Masque 5 Seekers 2*20 Demonettes 5 Slickblades Basically the game consisted in me removing my models every time he was casting some stuff (MW around objectives, Celestial deliverance or IDK what's the name of Kroak's spell, aoe MWs around the troglodon,...), denying my ward saves, cancelling my rend, +1 to cast -1 to deny (I still could deny some stuff because he rolled very bad, even though he got zero miscasts) and other stuff. I didn't even try to memorize all the buffs and debuffs he put during the game lol. He managed to roll more than my bravery 3 times (2 times on the KoS, 1 time on a pack of demonettes -B10 right?) making me fight last when it mattered the most. Happens. I managed to kill some stuff (troglodon, all the units), even though I could've dealt more damage and made the game easier for myself if I played better: Basically I managed to bring Shalaxi into cc in T2: He has 5 saurus screening Kroak, and there's a space where I can get the Slann + Starpriest with a good charge roll, thanks to the 3" range of Soulpiercer and Claws. The starpriest cancels my wards (so I want to target him - it's the only way to tank his mw ouput), and slann was cancelling my rend and some other stuff (wanted to target him too), I went a bit greedy and chose to separate my attacks (something I never do actually). Rolled a good charge roll, went into everyone (but put me outside of the 2nd pile in ability from the KoS), used the Icon, separated my attacks, rolled bad on dmg dice (happens), Slann and starpriest were both alive with 1 HP thanks to saurus's bodyguard rule, but killed them all. Kinda helped cause I managed to get 11 DP out of them both when they hit me back, but still. I should've impacted the saurus, kill them with my first pile in, and then activate a 2nd time with the Excess of Violence one use only to insta kill Kroak. Or I should've just overkilled the starpriest, IDK. In T4, I have 8 demonettes and Epitome on his objective, he has Kroak + Slann + astrolith bearer + other hero, I charged with my demonettes and he rolled 11 on the strike last stuff. I wondered why I charged, it was not making any sense... I lost the objective, and lost 2 VP stupidly. If my opponent had a single double turn, it would've gone veeery bad for me. The seraphon book is frustrating, tbh. Now he'll fix his list (not enough bodies/screening) and put more bodies in exchange of 1 slann (was a bit too much to put 2). The DP mechanic is just useless if he goes full MW. And the time it takes you to go up to 36 you're already dead I felt like my first many tries against Malenia in ER

Being a big fan of Invaders, the Unique restriction is not that annoying in itself: Couldn't use it anyway as written here in the early pages of the thread, although we could've argued that it wasn't specified clearly. Now it is. Still, myself I played my games with the Unique restrictions already, and it didn't impact me that much. The limitation to one Hurler debuff is really annoying though. Imho, it was one of the biggest perks of invaders (even though Icon of Excess and Best of the best are cool, this trait really shines when combined with a few heroes). And it has its downsides cause you still had to commit, right? The changes are understandable, but their consequences and what it will cause: less so. For exemple, the AoS worlds lists are all exclusively playing Pretenders already... Except one Godseeker. Now, same as @Lucentia said: It makes Pretenders an autopick, because... well it's just silly. Limiting choices by unnecessary changes is annoying. I'll still continue playing Invaders though: -1 save is still a useful debuff. +1A boardwide is still a good artefact! Hellflayers are quite interesting now!

Did you see that the Soulfeaster Keeper of Secrets (FW model, appearing in the App) could be summoned for 12 DP?

I'll share here the comments I made on another forum, cause I'd like to have some feedbacks! I'll ask you guys to forgive me: I'm a bit diminished because of a damaged wrist (can't even paint right now! and I'm a bit lazy to be honest ), and I used Deepl to translate most of the stuff, so some sentences/wordings may be a bit weird: So I've played a few games in Slaanesh (only Invaders for the moment, as I find the ability to give -1 save to any unit within 6" of a hero very very strong! With very interesting spells, and a particular artifact that enhances the army: the Icon. It's worth what it's worth. I've made some mistakes, including some match-up estimates, some bad artifact estimates (Beguiling Gem - the artifact is good in itself, but a bit random, considering that heroes often have high bravery) but I'm not doing too badly overall. I've mostly played daemon on tabletop (due to not having the mortal minis yet), and some mortals (taking a bit of everything to see the impact of scrolls) on TTS. A few global comments, mostly from what I've seen as shared on other places: 1/ The opponent should/would never, ever give depravity pts on Temptation dices! The players who gave me depravity pts, they regretted it directly. It increases exponentially the damage and the tanking of the army. It's just a crazy thing to do. It's a huge mistake. So, yeah, usually the opponent will take 6d3 mws per battle round. And not every army can soak it anyway. A Death player, he'll take it without worrying I think. But against some armies, it can go fast. Especially with the Rally nerf, it's getting a bit more tense. Not everyone can afford 6d3 mws per battle round. 2/ Slickblades are the best thing, in my opinion, for the T1 depravity generation (I specify T1). Knowing that the most important tier (but not necessarily the hardest) in my opinion is the first one: -1 to hit, that's the first objective to reach for us. Once you have the first one, you tank a bit better, which allows you to manage the glasscanon aspect of the army. The hardest tier (still in my opinion) is the 2nd one. Once the opponent has understood how the DP work (at some point, the opponent can happen to accept to give depravity if you start damaging a small hero with blissbarbs for example), it becomes a bit more complicated afterwards. Personally, going from 12DP to 24DP is what caused me the most trouble. On the other hand, once you reach 24 DP, you just ramp it up if you weren't tabled before. The 6 explosives, considering the number of attacks you throw, it's great. It goes up quickly afterwards. So 36 DP is not complicated. Anyway, once that's said, getting into the mindset of going for 12 DP T1: What will be able to impact T1 and generate DP with Euphoric Killers are 1/ units that have run & charge (no ****** sherlock?), 2/ units that go very fast without run & charge (that should be fine in Slaanesh), and 3/ that will require the minimum of resources (the +1 wound of the epitome might not necessarily be in range, even if 24" is comfortable!) So you're going to look for stuff that hits decently (via high rend/bm/D) by itself. So, what are our units for such purpose? -The seekers are great with their 14" move, 2d6 to run, run & charge, but just have zero damage: low A, no rend, D1. It's really not crazy. On the other hand, they are great for redirection, hindering enemy movement, etc... I was very skeptical when I read the warscroll, but now I think I'll just fit in at least a unit every time: 140 pts, which will just run accross the board on T1 and block potentially enemy moves and annoy the opponent (I did it against a STD where I blocked everything: Slaanesh Chosen and Khorne cavalry, it was quite funny. The idoneth ignored it a bit because it flies, but it blocked his 20 thralls for example) -Demonettes will run at 6" auto, so 13" move, and charge at 8" average (7+1 banner), which is pretty comfortable (especially if you're in Godseeker). Demonettes throw buckets of attacks, so you compensate quality with quantity. Problem? Without +1 wound of the epitome, you wound on 4+, and it is frankly not the best 😕 that will require to crack a triumph (if you took the +1 wound), or a spellportal for example (but you'd likely be casting some other spell like slothful stupor in Godseeker or Pavane in Invaders :D). And then Daemonettes have rend 1. Without Invaders (and thus heros) and without Blissbarb seeker, it can be complicated. -A bladebringer on Exalted chariot in Godseekers that will charge at 3d6: meh. You're a bit too dependent on the result of the charge (even if you have RRs in Godseekers). The scroll is fantastic: it allows you to deal with stuff that potentially hurts you a lot, like strike first (an idoneth that will strike first - eh Akhelian King? take your mws in your face in the charge phase), or stuff in heavy armor, but a bit counterproductive for me, because the mws are dealt in the charge phase, therefore blowing stuff up + preventing you from selecting a unit at 1" for Euphoric Killers in the combat phase. Then again, spending a hero at 260 pts on a screening unit that may not have a big save, is that really relevant? Meeeeh. I'd rather save the BB for later in the game. -A Keeper in Godseekers that will charge to 3d6 with flight, or run 20" and pile in at 6". It's solid. You're pretty sure you'll be generating plenty of DP T1. But then again, do you want to spend 400 pts on a screening unit? Meeeeeh. -Remain the Slickblade Seekers which offer a very good compromise: The seekers' speed (14" move, run at 6" auto & charge with rr if needed), 4A: since you're going to hit screens, you'll benefit from the A bonus in 2+/3+, and especially Rend 2 without any bonuses, the whole unit with a correct tankyness (4HPs, -1 to hit if you manage to get the 12 DP by activating first). For 200 pts. It's the best of all worlds imho. 3/ I haven't done 50 games, but even without playing Slickblade (and thus big T1 impact), I always had 12 DPs (Tier 1) either at the end of T1 (end of the battle round), or at the end of the first player turn of T2. Tier 2 is a bit more complicated. On the games where it went well, I got it T2 (end of the first player round or end of battle round), or end of battle round T3. Like I said before, the Tier 3 is pretty quick once you get the 24DP, really. The summoning: I had to summon in 2 games, maybe 3? One where I burned everything because I had nothing left on the table to summon a Keeper around the Fane of Slaanesh and attempt a charge at 9" to succeed in my BT (which I did!). One where I summoned a viceleader I think because I was tabled, and I had 18 or 20 DP And the other I don't remember. A chariot maybe... But, yeah, summoning didn't convince me so far. Which makes me think back on my GS: For the moment, I've always used Arch tempter (the one that asks you to give 6 times a temptation on a unit). It works pretty well: you send a weak unit (like seekers) on a weak thing, that will keep busy during the game, that won't get killed. Or you just ignore a unit, let it shoot at you for example, and give it temptation dice (but you risk killing it as it will take the d3 mws). Or you can find a tanky unit that will be able to soak your damage, soak the mws, and all that (like 30 chaos warrior with nurgle banner for example). The games where I did not succeed this GS were games where I wiped the units I impacted. Which can happen quite often, actually. Or where I got tabled. So, considering the relative efficiency of the Slaanesh summoning, I wonder if I'll just take the one that asks not to summon at all. In the end, the DP bonuses are just good enough. 4/The Masque is great: Good assassin, T1 move blocking if the opponent plays first, intense thinking for the player when deploying (by not forgetting to explain to the opponent what the Masque does to avoid the gotcha!), potential DTL, potential trap, etc... And even if you don't tp him, she has run and charge and that's pretty much enough. The possibilities are just magnificent. For a very low cost. Almost autoinclude. You can play without it, but having it in your list is still great. For now, I try to put it systematically. 5/ A little note on the chariots: it seems to me like a bit of a bad idea to set mws in the charge phase, since it reduces Euphoric Killers impact: you can quickly find yourself like an idiot with nothing at 1" at the beginning of the combat phase... Even if you can pile in and hit because you charged, if there is nothing at 1", there is no unit eligible for Euphoric Killers... but the saturation is correct and allows you to manage things that are boring for us (Strike first, big armor). A thing to keep in mind, imho. So, according to my tryouts, in unit ranking, I'm leaning on: *Autoinclude/very strong: Epitome, and then the Masque, because why not, right? Blissbarb archers, Slickblades, Lord of Pain *Strong: Keeper of Secrets (400 pts, it's expensive but he kills stuff. There are enough traits/artefacts to give As or improve your stats: Best of the best, Icon of Infinite Excess, pretenders traits, Hunter Supreme, Flaming weapon - apart from my game against a big Waaagh list, he always made his game, even won me the game almost solo. I've always played him with Sinistrous Hand, but I'm going to opt for Aegis from now on), Seekers (it hits zero, but the potential of nuisance is too funny), BB on Exalted chariot + Exalted Chariot (it still delivers a ton of attacks very well despite my note above), Sigvald (same, it allows to manage boring stuff: big armor + ward), Myrmidesh Painbringers by 10 for an anvil/screening (and models are great! ) or Chaos warriors in coalition for cheap screen compared to Myrmidesh. Spellportal: 12" range on very interesting spells, this is a nice bonus. Mesmerising Mirror for DP generation. *I'm not convinced yet: Symbaresh Twinsouls: I haven't tried them enough for my taste. I find they have nice rules (-1A, ward to 5+ around enemies) that make them nice screens that hit decently, but it requires the galletian veteran battalion (I've always played them by 10), and their scroll seem very predictible to me (well, the opponent sees the thing coming from miles away, so if he has a shot, he just has to kill the thing knowing that it can die pretty fast after all). The minis are great. Demonettes + Viceleader: I put both together, because they go together. Demonettes are not bad in themselves, good mobility, they offer a very nice saturation, and can generate a lot of DP, but it's pure glasscanon, and it requires a bit too many resources to get something out of it (+1 wound per spell, quite a lot of CP: +1 hit if less than 24DP, auto run at 6, etc... So people will tell me that these are things we'll use anyway. Certainly.). The scroll is "well" written, in the sense that it's balanced, but it flies at the slightest breath so it requires playing 30 (and therefore 325 pts and not easy to fit in the viceleader's ww12). Or by 20, but you have to choose your target well... Blissbarb Seekers: Crazy mobility, -1 to save (very useful if you don't play Invaders), but a bit limited range that requires to expose them anyway. I need to test them more. Lord of Hubris: I haven't played him much to be honest, but he's one of the guys who can move up in my rankings after several tests. Playing Pretenders and casting Phantasmagoria for his "You First, I insist" ability; but it seems like a very phoned-in move to me, and therefore predictable... I don't know! Have any players managed to do that? But what I like best about him is his ability to fight upon death. Especially since there is no condition to not have fought before or anything. You hit, you kill stuff. You die afterwards, and you get to hit and kill stuff again (on units who are not too bad at killing stuff actually). It's an ability, so you don't even need to use CP, it's like free of charge, what's not to like?. I have to test it more. But it fits in a precise build with this in mind (Myrmidesh and/or Twinsouls). *Garbage: Shardspeaker: A strong ability! (-1 save - on a 4+, of course! but the potential is strong! and we need it), a very good spell, a magnificent mini, for a ridiculous cost, but so bad ranges! 9" and 12"... Ah, forget it! how do you want to apply that in a game? Hellstriders: Better to take Seekers. If only their A and D bonus was linked to a successful charge or something... But now, it requires them to have tanked at least one turn... I don't really see the point... The same ones with whips seem nicer to me, but pfff, not very convinced either: better to kill stuff on the objectives 😛 *Not tested: Glutos. I don't like the mini. From there on, it's settled, duh. Enrapturess. No opinion on it. Synessa/Dexcessa: Beautiful minis, but not very convinced... Synessa, her stick can't snipe GC I think? I'd test Dexcessa more than Synessa: Charge run/charge retreat, cumulative A bonus, -1 native hit, but no ward. Hiiic. Slaangor Fiendblood: Nice minis. Two activations potentially, and a d6" move under certain conditions (which should be able to be met if they assist or are assisted). The chariots other than the exalted and the BB on exalted. But I find them underneath, so I don't plan to test them anyway. *Need tryouts, because the scroll looks pretty good: Shalaxi. I only read his scroll late, but it looks like it's a pretty good one. He's got some pretty crazy rules. And he's maybe better than a Keeper. Fiends: Not a fan of the minis. But their rules look great! One I tested, but can't rank yet, is Syllesske: He hits well, he's mobile, his spell is really great (no redeploy, no unleash hell, no rally, no immune battleshock, nothing... on a 18" unit, popopo). Except that it doesn't have a native ward, and that its Symbiosis ability requires a particular list construction (the range is big, too)... But he's good, that's for sure. The book is really good. Good job GW! I'll definitely continue playing Invaders, but I want to try Godseekers as well. My "final" typical list will look like this: I'll try a Keeper + Shalaxi list too, but I have hopes for that list.

Yes! He also lost the mortal keyword on his scroll, meaning he actually just needs a single Mortal unit to give the benefit of his aura. Slickblade Seekers are looking very good to get early depravity points on screening units or out of position units as well: high move w/ run & charge, decent amout of attacks and good rend. What's not to like? The Masque is a superb assassin/pressure tool. Mesmerising mirror seems like an autoinclude to either generate DP or dealing damage: good range, aoe effect, triggering on both movement phases. Planning to run Invaders, as I prefer the stacking of heroic actions: Seems like we can stack the -1 save debuff on the same unit, which looks pretty interesting! +1A is also nothing to be sneezed at, specially on something like Sigvald. Do we agree that Syll'esske and Sigvald get to benefit from those?

With the 130 pts left, I went for a Flamekeeper and an invocation (going back and forth between infernoth and rune wall). For now. Also, I swapped Levitate spell for Ghostmist spell. So I had the chance to play a few games, most notables were, in terms of learning: -Seraphon: Skink spam, endless spell spam - Purple sun, shards of valagharr, gnashing jaws (yah, with a move of 4", just perfect!), with all the hero needed around. Really annoying matchup but depending on the scenario it's easier than I thought: basically it revolves around the negation ability of the Nulsidian Icon. 50% chances of negating spells + endless spells, and wards all over the FS Castle kinda helps to mitigate the dmg coming from spells/endless spells/shooting. But as long as the battlesmith is alive, it can tank. And if there are too many losses on a unit: boom, rally on 4+. The no LoS prayer + spell really helped for screening my heroes against Galletian sharpshooters skinks. The Seraphon pyramid was really annoying though: I hid behind the battleforge, and the pyramid was a constant threat. Manageable with heroic recoveries + d3 heal, but still. Annoying. I made a mistake by not covering/screening enough around the Battlesmith, so at some point the Purple Sun got a chance to get inside my 1": I failed my 4+, he rolled a 1, the battlesmith died. Planetary Alignment stuff, y'know The ability to run & charge with grimwrath and a unit was a threat for him as well, so he didn't commit a lot. If the objectives are not too scattered, and turning around the centre of the map (Prize of Gallet, realmstone cache, Jaws, Twist, this kind of stuff): Just rush and turtle there. Difficult for the seraphon to contest. We played Only the Worthy iirc - it was a bit annoying. Honestly, the game in itself was annoying. I played the same matchup with a StD list (I played StD), and I did the same thing: Rush objectives, and rolling for saves, removing models, bringing them back, etc... The FS was much more tanky though, thanks to Nulsidian Icon (OP stuff). I've not played yet vs the Thunder lizard list, but I think overall it will have better results: These are stuff I can actually kill. -Ogor: Meatfist list. Kragnos, 5 tyrants w/ Brawlerguts, 3*4 leadbelchers. We ended on a draw, because I left 1w on a tyrant, thus not allowing me to score the Grudge BT iirc. Or something like this. The Flamekeeper was the MVP. 1st screen with vulkites, they died on the shooting and charges, had some HGB dying on the charges as well (ranking up the Flamekeeper), strike first w/ a unit of HGB, fight on death with the other, activating the grimwrath and triggering the 2nd unit of HGB to hit (united in command) caused a lot of dmg on his turn. Super strong. We finished the game with Gotrek, Flamekeeper and Runemaster alive on my side. 3 leadbelchers on his. I score my GS, he doesn't. -New BoC: Allherd list. 2 shamans, Shaggoth, beastlord, 2*3 dragon ogor, cygors, gors and other stuff. My friend just started with them, tried some stuff mostly, struggled a lot playing his BoC, but in the hands of an experienced player, it is a super annoying BT. MWs output thanks to zoning abilities: 18" from the board with heroic actions, within objective range with cygors, terrain range with artefact, etc... Nulsidian Icon doesn't help. Meaning we have to mostly rely on ward saves. A lot of expendable stuff for BTs, moving quite fast, hitting okeyish but nothing we can't handle. Very scenario dependant I think. But crazy zoning. Woaw. Overall: The army is super tanky, delivers reliable dmg, and works perfectly with a lot of tricks (charge in combat phase, strike first, fight on death). Having to remember everything is the complicated part! The movement part is a bit meh. I've made some changes with games going on, and Leader of the Duardrazhal is not that interesting with Gotrek. I mean, most interesting runes would be +2" on move and charge. And the -1 rend. But Gotrek already deletes stuff, so... I swapped for Spirit of Grimnir. Triggering enhanced effect is much stronger on the rest. I was using Leadership of the alpha on the Battlesmith, but on some matchups I just can't afford losing him, so I went for the resurrection ability. I didn't use the run & charge prayer as well as the run & charge combo with the Grimwrath (even though I took the Oath). But just having them and telling my opponents I had them allowed me to put some extra pressure on my opponent "just in case". Today the list looks like this: The most difficult side of the army I've experienced so far imho is the 1st turn battle tactic. Kinda difficult. Maybe considering a tunnel master... Also, is it possible to score Beastslayer with Gotrek? It only mentions "a friendly Hero". Not a FS hero.

I was intending on playing with the run & charge prayer on the HGB to make them run with the grimwrath. That's why I planned to add the 2nd runesmiter. I like these two options though. Not the auric one.

Heya! With the new season and the way how Galletian champs and BTs are working now, I want to try out FS (as we don't have any at all in our local meta), with the will to play the most famous slayer of all: Gotrek. As I'm fairly new to FS, and as I liked @Chronos's last list and choices, I kinda used it as my base with some modifications: -Run & charge oath on the Grimwrath. -10 HGB as runefather's retinue, 10 HGB as Grimwrath's "retinue" with the new heroic action. -I have 130 pts left, and I'm thorn between two choices: adding a 2nd runesmite w/ Ember storm (extra prayer and GS choice) or Firewall + Infernoth Invocations (dmg + opponent's move nuisance). What would you suggest? -I do feel like I lack some bodies... Maybe swap the grimwrath for another unit of vulkite. But I'll see on the table first, before considering these kind of changes.

Easy to drop in if you put them into deep strike: Gives you an easy Desecrate their lands, Barge through enemy lines (scorable with 2 GV units here), or can bodyguard the spirit torment, screening, and even giving an extra charge debuff.

On my last game (vs Sylvaneth), I forgot my Cado, so I took the Mourngul out from the showcase. Just to give it a go. Going for this, these days! Mainly for fun. A 2nd source of roar, in order to avoid having to send in Nagash. And a 6" -1 to hit bubble to babysit a unit of Hexwraiths/Nagash. We played Head on Collision. The Sylvaneth list was Drycha, Durthu with gladius glade, Warsong Rev, TLA, battlemage of Ghur, 2*10 dryads, 5 tree revs, spiteswarm hive, purple sun, quicksilver sword. I take the first turn, manage to expand on the table so he can't bring in trees, or TP as he wishes. Basically, his turns consist in him buffing Durthu and sending him in, killing my stuff and then TP back. Sometimes I get to dispell his buff or Warsong's spell, sometimes not. But he successfully charged every time This time Nagash killed some stuff! Durthu, then Drycha, 10 dryads. Despite him killing me faster than I'd kill him, we are even on points until turn 4. He has TLA, the battlemage, warsong, 3 tree revs and 2 dryads left on the table, I have Nagash, Lord exec and 3 spirit host. It is super hard to hold the objectives and score my BTs. Anyhow I planned to try Desecrate their lands in T4, and barge through enemy lines in T5: I put 3 spirit host near the chosen terrain, he brings in the TLA in range thanks to a 5" redeploy. I charge with Nagash on the TLA (but can't get in range of the terrain unfortunately - I could've rerolled the charge, I needed like 2-3" more but I could've failed the charge and lose on all aspects)... Unfortunately I can't kill him. Nagash was tired. So can't score that. If I get a double turn, I can secure my T5 BT, and maybe my GS because he only had TLA and warsong left. But he gets the initiative on T5, I lose the Lord Exec on the Warsong revenant's spell (Nagash didn't dispell it) and the spirit host. I only have Nagash left. Very close game vs a very good opponent! Once I finish painting Reikenor, I plan to swap the Mourngul for Reikenor and a unit of 4 Myrmourn banshees. But it's a fun list.

@pixieproxy 3-6 spirit hosts and 10 additional reapers should do the trick and give a solid base for a 2k list. My tournament this week end went soooooooo wrong. How can someone make that much miscasts at first attempts of casting the cogs and 1s during the game? damn... *So, first game vs SCE, running a msu list, new player in AoS playing with what he has. Silksteel nest. Being one drop, I go first because I want to be able to play on his double turn, in order to give myself the critical double turn on T2-T3, and mitigating his deep striking and movement by doing effective screening with my units: I am more mobile than him, I can fly, retreat and charge, etc etc. He puts 1 vindictor unit in the far left objective. 1 vindictor unit in the middle left objective with the relictor and imperatant, judicator unit in the middle right objective, and 2 fulminators on the far right objective. I put everything on my left side of the board, 5 hexwraiths screening Cado, 5 hexwraiths screening Nagash, with just 3 fell bats on the side of the fulminators. Spirit hosts and Lord Exec in DS. I only roll 1 on the Emerald host ability, so I pick the Imperatant and the relictor. The plan is to try to kill the imperatant and relictor to reduce his tps (annihilators would deep strike at 9", and he'd lose relocation prayer, right?). But everything went totally wrong: T1: Cado uses his ability to get +1 and try to cast Cogs: 1-1, miscast, 3 mws. Nagash casts mystic shield on himself, -1 to wound and 5++ ward on the hexwraith unit that will screen in the middle of the board. Tries to cast spellportal: 1-1, miscast, 3 mws, I save 2. My movements only consist by expanding a bit with the hexwraiths, but not too much, just to avoid the mws on the TP, etc... It looks like this: My opponent can deep strike on my left and try to charge the not buffed unit, but then he'll be on foot where I'll be able to move around and focus on the other side of the board. He can DS on the middle and try to charge the fully buffed unit, meaning I'll be able to mitigate the dmg. He can DS on my right side, but then he'll open his right side and then I can start to grind from that point. What I'd do, based on my many games in AoS would be to focus on one point, trying to maximise my chances of successful charges at 9" and go from there, right? He choses to DS Celestant and 3 annihilator on my left side (1mw on the hexwraith), 5 vindictors in the middle, 5 retributors on the fell bats. I was like "wait, whaaat?" He rolls: Celestant charges at 11, Annihilator at 9", Vindictor at 12", Retributor at 10". mmmm' k... Annihilators do 3 mws on the hexwraiths, meaning I get to remove 2 bases and they are out of range for fighting purposes, even after their pile in. Vindictors kill 1, celestant kills 1, fell bats die. I kill 2 vindictors. T2: I won the initiative, but I realise I need a change of plan. I didn't expect that many successful charges, thus he is in my lines and I need to get rid of these units fast otherwise I'll lose the objectives. So I go first. This time, I cast cogs with Nagash: 1-1, miscasts, 3 mws, I save 2. No more spells. I bring back Hexwraiths, both units retreat, one goes toward the relictor and Imperatant and 5 vindictors, the other one screens a bit, Spirit Host DS on the far right objective to take it from the fulminators who moved too far, the lord executioner deep strikes on the far left objective, trying a charge at 9" on both of the SCE heroes. Cado (under finest hour) goes near the annihilator with mws on wound rolls, and Nagash moves to kill 3 vindictors. The plan is: Nagash kills 3 vindictors, get a hold of the objective, and when the fulminator comes near, Nagash redeploys. Too bad I don't have arcane bolts stacked. They are very useful as a defense tool. The Lord misses his charge, but except that, everyone goes in. Hexwraiths kill the imperatant (mw on the charge, hitting with -1 save debuff), Cado does 2 dmg on the annihilator (1-2-2-2-3 on hit rolls, I kept the All out Attack for Nagash), Nagash kills a single vindictor with shooting and CC. Let's say I'm getting a bit disappointed right now. Anyways.... Nagash calls his Finest hour. He moves his SCE units, Fulminators come near Nagash, forgets to deep strike annihilators and protectors and remembers them before charging rolls, I tell him he can DS them in, as it won't really change anything tbh. But he said it was his mistake, blabla. Fulminators charge, All out defense on Nagash, rolls quite bad, I have a chance of saving Nagash: only have 3 saves to do, at 3+: 1-1-2. 9w, Nagash dies. From then, it consists in me trying to get as many points as possible, while removing my models from the board... I score nothing on the last 2 turn, major lose. MSU is an annoying matchup, but with proper hero phase, I could've manage something. *Second game vs OBR list with Katakros, 2 Gothizzar, 40 morteks and other stuff. The scenario is the one where you get to pick and objective to be the alpha. It mostly relies on my ability to kill the Gothizzars right off, with an option on soulmason (gothizzar cartouche is super annoying and makes the mortek really killy), and Katakros (+1 hit and resurrecting models, -1 hit on me, etc), and being successful on my roars. I know the matchup, I know both armies, I know what I have to do, and all. T1: I let him go first as I am out of range for hand of dust and all, he can't charge me, and I want to play on a potential double turn to hand of dust some stuff. He advances and overcommits a bit. Cado fails Cogs, Nagash casts mystic shield, -1 to wound, 5++ ward, spellportal, I roll 2-2 on the strike last spell: It's kinda annoying because I have -1 to cast, and the strike last really helps in case I lose the initiative: I chose to reroll as he still has dispells available: 1-1, miscast, can't cast hand of dust. T2: He wins the initiative. Thanks to me screening effectively, he can't really get something valuable. And he overcommits again with his mortek guards by charging too far, piling in too far, etc: Basically, he leaves a huge opening for Nagash, because Katakros, soulmason, stalkers (nearby a gothizzar) are here for the take, with Kavalos riders as well. I can put in my Lord Exec, Nagash, and 5 hexwraiths to block the pile in of the morteks and reduce their impact. Everything can go really sexy from there! Not sure if this "mistake" is intended or not, but I'm like: Anyway, I chose to go all-in, as I have the potential double turn. Waaagh! Mr Bond! Finest hour, Nagash casts Cogs, mystic shield, 6 arcane bolts, ready to rumble! The plan is to put Nagash in contact with the Stalkers, Katakros, kavalos riders, kill the riders with the bolts, kill the stalkers on CC, and keep Katakros in case of a double turn: I need to OS him, otherwise he hurts me very bad - so Hand of Dust. Lord exec needs a 6" charge to impact the soulmason, Nagash a 3" for a successful charge, but 6" to be in the middle of the hole. What could go wrong? you may ask... Lord Exec charges at 5", so he can go on the morteks, but not the soulmason. Nagash does 3", impacts the soulmason and will pile in 3". Hexwraiths get in and deals 2 mws on the soulmason. Nagash is far away for the bolts in the riders (start of the combat phase), so I chose to keep them for later - battleshock phase, or in case I lose the initiative. He piles in, kills the soulmason, kills 2 stalkers (rr save) but one comes back thanks to Gothizzar. He hits back, don't do a lot of dmg: Katakros misses Inda Khaat attacks, his companions do 2-3 dmg, Stalkers go out of range of the Gothizzar when they piled in, 6 arcane bolt onto them: 17 mws I'm okeyish so far: not a lot of losses, managed to kill a key target, some fast and heavy hitting stuff, could use the double turn to kill another one and TP Nagash away. But I roll 1 on the initiative. Therefore I don't get a double turn. Therefore I lose Nagash to 20 morteks (under undeniable empowers nadirite weapons) and a Gothizzar. And the lord exec. Everything starts to fall apart but I'm still in front in terms of VPs. So, as the previous game: I try to max my pts while removing models. I could maybe win if I could get the next double turn, 'cause I would make my advantage bigger (still have more objective than him) due to a good use of Proving grounds and Alpha objective. But it doesn't go my way. We played alternately during the whole game. I lose in the last round. Causing me to finish last at the tourney. 1st goes to SCE with double stardrake. 2nd goes to SCE with double stardrake and Krondys. Was fun overall, despite my bad luck!

Thx! I'm going with fell bats and sspellportal. So we have many people not coming, but the lists are so funny! Peeeerfect targets for Nagash and Hand of Dust! There are two lists playing double Stardrake. -Double Stardrake, Krondys, 15 Libbies and a Comet. -Double Stardrake, double Knight Incantor (annoying), lord relictor, Castellan, 15 libbies, Farstrider. -Imperator, Celestant, Relictor, 5 protectors, 5 retrib, 2*3 Annihilator (shield), 2*5 vindictors, 2 fulminators and 5 judicators (I'm playing vs this list first round). -Katakros, Soulmason, Boneshaper, 40 morteks, 2 Gothizzars, Stalker and Kavalos riders. -Butcher, Hrothgorn, 2*20 gnoblars, 8 leadbelcher, 4 leadbelcherss, 6 gluttons, 4 ironblasters (aouch). Should've been like 4 other players (StD, DoK, NH, KO) but they can't come unfortunately... I'm playing vs the one list where Hand of dust will be the least effective lol! Unlucky!

If you wish to go full Nighthaunt, you can swap Cado and the Fell bats for Reikenor. It works nicely as well. The mw dmg output is surprisingly good: Nagash (arcane boltzzzz), Reikenor (2d3), Mortalis Terminexus, hexwraiths (on the charge), Emerald Host ability... I've mostly used the Terminexus for healing purposes, but the aoe dmg is... hooooly moly... But the loss of 3 bases is kinda eeeeeh when you are already on such low body count. I plan on taking the Cado list at a local tournament this Saturday. Although I still have some interrogation on: -going one drop or still keeping the BH battalion. -Fell bats + spellportal or 3 additional spirit host for an additional VP when doing Barge through Enemy Lines. A VP is a VP!

-Knight Incantor for the auto dispell. The autodispell is huuuuge. Being a Knight, he'll only have 12" range, which is a bit meh for the spells that are in the SCE book.The spells are quite cool, actually, but in my lists he'll take mostly a buff spell (Azyrite Halo, Celestial Blades). His warscroll spell is okeyish at most. -Lord Arcanum. Benefits from 18" range, which is much better, and his spell is cool. -1 to hit is always good to have. -Arcane tome. On a Stardrake or a Lord Arcanum (for 2 casts per turn)/Imperatant. I like the list! The 10 man Protectors is a bit too much for me, and I'd drop the starsoul maces on them, but in Knight Excelsior you can clean the screens quite effectively. You kill 1 pink horror, and we're speaking of 51A at 2+/2+/-2/1 here... The KE ability and AoA will allow you to deny the locus of Change. On an objective, you are sitting with 2+ armor save, 3w each, each model counts as 3, pretty solid. You could consider dropping in the 10 man Protector T1, keep one Annihilators for T2 and one T3. If the scenario is one that prevents you to set up, you're kinda screwed though For the Morathi + Bowsnakes: You can charge with another unit first (protectors or Liberators for example) to soak the overwatch, and then get in with the Annihilators or Fulminators. With a proper charge move/pile in, you can block the retreat. The annoying part is the "shoot/fight in the hero phase" ability of Morathi, and Morathi herself.

@Rors You can't bind Krondspine to Nagash, unfortunately. Krondspine = unique enhancement, and therefore not applicable to unique characters. I've been trying him in OBR and NH lately. In NH, here is the following list I've been using: Hexwraiths for movement tricks and board control: blocking my opponents' moves, redeploys, high mobility for scoring, killing some small units, etc. They don't necessarily kill a lot of stuff, but they do get the job done in BH: I previously played them in the Battle Regiment, but sometimes I was lacking that bit of damage to clean a unit of 5-10 GV in order to score some battle tactics. There are no 1 drop in our meta so 3 drops is enough to secure the choice of the first turn. Never disappoint! Spirit hosts for bodyguarding the Exec & scoring proving grounds if need be, Fell bats for "bodyguarding" Cado, holding back objectives. By putting 15-18" between every units, maximizing the unit coherency and conga lines, I can manage to deny deep strikes if need be. It also helps in protecting Nagash vs shooty units with a specific range. Damage dealers are Cado, Lord Executioner, and Nagash. Cado is craaaazy good. He is better in SBGL cause he gets to have a ward, but in NH he does the job as well. 135 pts is a bargain. Him and Lord Executioner are actually quite reliable as dmg dealers with small amount of ressources (all out attack & a finest hour in the turn you really want to dish out the mortals) and are not that a deal breaker if they die (even though the executioner is annoying as I lose the ability to cast mortalis terminexus). I mostly used them to score an Eye for an eye/Gaining momentum in killing stuff. Cogs are mandatory for Nagash imho. Even with the increase in points cost. Mortalis terminexus does decent damage if the enemy is packed, but mostly is used for healing: d3 wounds healed for every unit within 6". I can heal all my heroes and other units, if I pack them. Quite suprised by this endless! Spellportal to manage big threats I can slay with Hand of dust, and forcing my opponent to "make mistakes": I want my opponent to make his movements by taking into account this issue, and force him into a mistake. Emerald Host to finish some key targets I dealed dmg to thanks to Mortalis, or Nagash's arcane bolts, or something else... Managed okeyish so far. All my games so far have been very tricky, but that's how I like it. No room for error, or small mistakes, for obvious reasons, Finest Hour have to be timed perfectly on Nagash, even his combat. Even if he can be quite tanky, he's not yolo as I've experienced it in a game vs OBR! The army clearly lacks model, but is suprisingly tanky: 4+ ethereal armor save on everyone, meaning I can use all my All out Defenses on Nagash, I can stack multiple useful buffs (-1 to wound, 5++ ward reliably thx to Nagash), and as CP management I mostly use my CPs for Redeploy and the +1 to ward in combat with Nagash (and AOD depending on the matchup). I'm not relying on GV to scoring, so the Bounty Hunters battalion has literally no effect on my list. The list is not that easy to read at first, and can leave the opponent a bit surprised at first: Had it many times Biggest nightmare? shooty lists. Our local meta is helping though, we don't have that many shooty lists. A Helon LRL (hugh...), a Thunder Lizard Seraphon with 1-2 Bastiladons (but the spellportal is there for this kind of threats), and a KO. Morathi is annoying too but I can handle her enough by blocking her movement and tarpiting her. *Against the odd/Desecrate their lands/Barge through enemy lines are quite ok to score in early game or late game. *An eye for an eye and This one's mine can be done by softening targets with Nagash and finish them off with the Lord executioner for the latter. *Outmuscle, Tides of terror are an option. *Gaining momentum is the most difficult one as it is mostly scenario independent, but can be realised. *Head to head is impossible. Small amount of models means the army is easy to transport and fast to play, leaving plenty of time to think my next moves!

BT + last FAQ. Navigate through realmroots still exists, but for woods, you take the warscroll from FAQ (which is also the one in the new AoS App). 1-3 trees. If an awakened wyldwood consists of more than 1 tree, each tip must touch each other (thus forming a circle). Yes, you can use a single tree. Initial trees: wholly within your territory, more than 3" from objectives and other terrain. Summon: You have to take into consideration the way it is set up (for TLA's ability for example) adding to it the following: more than 3" from models, objectives, terrain features, endless spells, invocations. They block LoS for models if you have 3" terrain between the 2 models, with the exception of models with 10+ wounds (TLA and Durthu are targetable and not subject to blocking LoS). Sylvaneth models do not have LoS blocked (you can shoot from inside). You deal mws at the end of the charge phase, for each unit w/o sylvaneth keyword at 1" within, adding 2 if there is a wizard or endless spell within 6". On a 6+, d3 mw. And Spirit Paths is a bit changed as they changed the wholly within to within for big trees.

The one drop (or not) doesn't change a lot, to be honest. I just put them in a regiment for list purpose/organisation purpose. As long as they don't add another regiment to fit in what's left, I don't see a negative issue about having one. Hunters of the Heartlands maybe? meh The deployment doesn't change a lot as well. Haven't tried all scenarios yet, so it might change ofc. Basically, you'll drop in the BTs and then the hounds around/in front. They will be deployed as screens, based on their base size to increase the board control, with some spaces between them and BTs to avoid opponent alpha strike/threat range. I see your point for the Talisman of Burning Blood, but I don't believe the bloodbound hero will be able to follow the BTs. He might on T1, but after it might be complicated or unnecessary due to the shrinking of the tables. Besides, it would mean dropping the Foe's Bane or Argath. Not really keen on it. I prefer by far a reroll (specially to wound, to trigger that nice MW output).

Don't need those pesky StDs! Baleful Lords. Because Run & Charge!!!!! The Howling Host! Awouuuuuuuuuu! Warlord Regiment BT Insensate Rage, General (Thirst for Carnage), Ar'gath or Foe's Bane or BBC if you take Crimson Crown- 280 pts (personally I go with Foe's bane for the rr) BT Unfettered Fury, Black Brass Crown or Crimson Crown (although I believe you can just not take it, CP generation is quite ok) - 295 pts Slaughterpriest, Bronzed Flesh or Killing Frenzy - 110 pts Slaughterpriest, Blood Sacrifice - 110 pts 5 Flesh Hounds - 105 pts Battle Regiment Wrath of Khorne BT - 310 pts 5 Flesh Hounds - 105 pts 5 Flesh Hounds - 105 pts 5 Flesh Hounds - 105 pts Skarbrand - 380 pts Hexgorger Skull - 60 pts You can swap 1 Slaughterpriest with a Bloodsecrator, but I believe the Bloodsecrator will have trouble keeping up with the BTs. And Slaughterpriests are cool models. 1965-1980 pts (if you take bloodsecrator). Triumph: +1 to wound Grand Strategy: Beastmaster. Battle Tactics: T1 Ferocious advance, T2 Savage Spearhead or Broken ranks or Bring it down or Slay the Warlord, T3 Savage Spearhead or Broken ranks or Bring it down or Slay the warlord, T4, Savage Spearhead or Broken ranks or Bring it down or Slay the warlord, T5 Savage Spearhead or Broken ranks or Bring it down or Slay the warlord. You run, you kill stuff. And then you kill more stuff. And then you kill some more. Just kill stuff, damn it! You get it already, right?

Drakescale Armour: Reroll failed save rolls for attacks that target the bearer that have a damage characteristic greater than 1. As rerolls happen before modifiers, and the artefact specifically mentions "rr failed save rolls", wouldn't that mean you only get to reroll 1s and 2s? 🤔

ETC finally finished, I can focus on the new BT now! So far, I've tried the following: Winterleaf - Ghyran LEADERSDurthu- General- Command Trait : My Heart is Ice- Artefact : Ghyrstrike TLA- Artefact : Frozen Kernel- Deepwood Spell : Treesong Branchwraith -Deepwood Spell: Regrowth Branchwraith -Deepwood Spell: Verdurous Harmony UNITS30 x Dryads20 x Dryads 10 x Dryads3 x Kurnoth Hunters- Greatswords3 x Kurnoth Hunters- Greatswords Spiteswarm Hive Vengeful Skullroot Forest Folk Battalion vs an IJ. I won. Durthu & TLA won me the games with their stomps Kurnoths w/ swords are solid as well. I am thinking of changing the TLA for Drycha: a little bit more of offensive potential, but I lose 1 stomp and an auto awakened wyldwood. Dunno if it is worth it, but I want to play Drycha. I think she can dish quite some dmg in Winterleaf. Otherwise, I am thinking of playing Harvestboon, I think Harvestboon is as interesting as Winterleaf: The trait is reaaaaally strong & the +1A ability works well on DurthuS. Yes, a couple of Durthu. Cuz one is not enough! With that in mind, I'm gonna try this one next: Harvestboon - Ghyran LEADERSDurthu- General- Command Trait : Seek New Fruit- Artefact : Ghyrstrike Durthu- Artefact : Silent Sickle Branchwraith -Deepwood Spell: Regrowth Branchwraith -Deepwood Spell: Treesong UNITS30 x Dryads20 x Dryads 20 x Dryads3 x Kurnoth Hunters- Greatswords Spiteswarm Hive Gladewyrm Forest Folk I start with 2 CPs (1 battalion and 1 extra for 50 pts). Dryads are objective holders and screens, giving me 3 possible blobs. Regrowth and Gladewyrm for healing. Spiteswarm for reroll saves of 1 (and sometimes extra move/charge). General Durthu goes hit'n run, the other one is hitting stuff with Treesong making him a little bit more reliable. 3 Kurnoths & 10 dryads can be swapped for a TLA for extra awakened wyldwood or Drycha.

Olynder. Works best with the spirit hosts, wizard, good signature spell, good dmg output (though a little bit short ranged). Black coach can do some work, too. Expensive, though.