AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[LordKalebKhaine]

Hey all, looking at putting together a 1000 point list, starting with the start collecting box.

I was wondering if you guys had any ideas for me.

Also, do Wanderers and/or Daughters of Khaine make for good allies?

Thank you!

[ledha]

Hi everyone

does the citadel wood rules apply to sylvaneths wyldwood ? If yes,is there is a faq or anything else that precise it ? thanks

[romhi]

2 hours ago, ledha said:

Hi everyone

does the citadel wood rules apply to sylvaneths wyldwood ? If yes,is there is a faq or anything else that precise it ? thanks

Q: Does the Overgrown Wilderness scenery rule apply to the Citadel Woods that make up a Sylvaneth Wyldwood?

A: Yes.

 

It is in the Sylvaneth's Designer's Commentary part of the official FAQ page. (link)

[Luke1705]

Anyone been trying out the Dreadwood battalion? Seems like Arielle, Durthu, and a couple squads of scythe hunters (plus a branchwraith or two to make points up to 2k) could be pretty solid summoning in dryads each turn at +2 to cast. Plus, that’s a heck of an alpha strike with some shooty hunters popping out of Arielle, plus Arielle, Durthu, and 2 hunter squads charging right away on turn 1 as a 1 drop list

[Twh30]

Pretty happy with this list now just to test it out. C+c welcome

[Yoshiya]

1 hour ago, Twh30 said:

Pretty happy with this list now just to test it out. C+c welcome

Not too keen on it to be fair. The Longstrikes in particular stand out as a bit of a weird choice at 180pts. They were only good at sniping things and I'd argue that for an extra 20pts Kurnoth Hunters will do better with their higher damage and extra wounds (though no mortals).

The Incantor also seems a weird choice given the access to wizards that Slyvaneth have. You're playing 60pts over say another Branchwraith that would give reduncy on her spell as well as being able to take another Slyvaneth spell (Incantor spell isn't that great) in return for some ok mortal wound output and an auto dispell. Given how tight on points you are if you really want the auto dispell I'd be tempted to take the Spellweaver instead.

The Phoenix is alright though not entirely sure what it's doing in the list besides adding another hard to kill guy but it goes with the theme and you have the magic so go for it.

The main thing however is you're just not making the most out of your battalion despite paying 230pts for it. 10 model Dryads do very little for their cost (they need that +1 save I find) and even if all 10 get to fight on average you're getting 3.5 extra attacks which translate to less than one extra wound before saves.

If you wanna go Winterleaf I really feel like you need to go all in on the Dryads with at least two large blobs. Otherwise just run something like Gnarlroot with the Phoenix so you have more than enough spells to get the most out of its save whilst having more useful overall abilities and less dead weight.

[Twh30]

Thank you I’m all ears on possible improvements  . 

The frostheart can only go in winterleaf as is no longer an Ally.

i may take the Stormcast out and use in a different army and go for a one drop tbh tho . Bump up dryads and durthu.

[romhi]

Anyone has any tips and tricks against the new sacrosanct stormcasts and the new nighthaunt armies?  Did not have the chance to fight them yet, and I bet I will face some this weekend.

[AaronWilson]

I know Ritchie from the just play podcast has been playing Dreadwood for a while, he's been posting solid results. Laurie went 4-1 this weekend with Winterleaf at Facehammer GT this weekend and Gnarlroot is super potent. Sylvaneth have got a lot of really good options right now

[Isotop]

On 9/25/2018 at 3:18 AM, Luke1705 said:

Anyone been trying out the Dreadwood battalion? Seems like Arielle, Durthu, and a couple squads of scythe hunters (plus a branchwraith or two to make points up to 2k) could be pretty solid summoning in dryads each turn at +2 to cast. Plus, that’s a heck of an alpha strike with some shooty hunters popping out of Arielle, plus Arielle, Durthu, and 2 hunter squads charging right away on turn 1 as a 1 drop list

How are you getting +2 on the Dryad summoning? If you are thinking of Ranus´ Lamentiri - it only grants +1 to Roused to Wrath since it is not a Deepwood Spell Lore spell (you still get +1 tho). The only other way of getting +2 (or more) I can think of is Throne of Vines on a Branchwraiht and/or a Harvestboon Wargrove Branchwraith with Ranus´. 

How are you charging turn 1 with three units? The redeployment-ability is only one unit, while the movement-ability only gives 5" additional threat on Hunters and Durthu. Am I missing something?

Edited September 26, 2018 by Isotop

[AaronWilson]

1 hour ago, Isotop said:

How are you getting +2 on the Dryad summoning? If you are thinking of Ranus´ Lamentiri - it only grants +1 to Roused to Wrath since it is not a Deepwood Spell Lore spell (you still get +1 tho). The only other way of getting +2 (or more) I can think of is Throne of Vines on a Branchwraiht and/or a Harvestboon Wargrove Branchwraith with Ranus´. 

How are you charging turn 1 with three units? The redeployment-ability is only one unit, while the movement-ability only gives 5" additional threat on Hunters and Durthu. Am I missing something?

He might be referencing Ranu + Arcane terrain? I think most likely the player has slightly mis-read ranus and is assuming you get the +2 for roused to wrath as well.

[Luke1705]

16 hours ago, Isotop said:

How are you getting +2 on the Dryad summoning? If you are thinking of Ranus´ Lamentiri - it only grants +1 to Roused to Wrath since it is not a Deepwood Spell Lore spell (you still get +1 tho). The only other way of getting +2 (or more) I can think of is Throne of Vines on a Branchwraiht and/or a Harvestboon Wargrove Branchwraith with Ranus´. 

How are you charging turn 1 with three units? The redeployment-ability is only one unit, while the movement-ability only gives 5" additional threat on Hunters and Durthu. Am I missing something?

Yeah totally misread the +1/+2. Forgot that didn’t apply. That’s what happens when I theory-craft late at night!

The number of units you can redeploy is the entire army though if you play it as a one drop. The FAQ is clear that an ability that says “a unit” like where it says “a dreadwood unit” in that redeploy ability actually means “any dreadwood unit(s)”. I assumed it meant 1 until I read the FAQ

[Luke1705]

The relevant FAQ, from the Sylvaneth designer’s commentary. Though not mentioning this ability specifically, it clearly outlines what GW means when they say “a unit”

[Lhw]

4 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Yeah totally misread the +1/+2. Forgot that didn’t apply. That’s what happens when I theory-craft late at night!

The number of units you can redeploy is the entire army though if you play it as a one drop. The FAQ is clear that an ability that says “a unit” like where it says “a dreadwood unit” in that redeploy ability actually means “any dreadwood unit(s)”. I assumed it meant 1 until I read the FAQ

That's really not how it's worded. "A" means a single unit. Unit is singular, for it to be multiple units, it would need to be unit(s). 

Otherwise it would be the most amazing battalion in the world.

[AaronWilson]

Yeah Dreadwood does not let you use one strategem to affect the whole army.

[Isotop]

No offense guys, but I think @Luke1705 deserves a better answer/explanation than just "it can´t work this way, otherwise Dreadwood would be overpowered". The argument about ""A" always means singular" is probably pretty confusing for him as well, since he just quoted an FAQ that told him otherwise (in some kind).

 

6 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

The FAQ is clear that an ability that says “a unit” like where it says “a dreadwood unit” in that redeploy ability actually means “any dreadwood unit(s)”. I assumed it meant 1 until I read the FAQ

I am afraid the FAQ is not as clear as you wish for. It does not talk about the phrases "a" and "any" in general, but refers specifically to the Gnarlroot wording. Nowhere does the FAQ state that it counts for every case of this formulation. They really should have added "Sorry for our terrible rules writing causing such an ambiguity ". I get where you are coming from, though, since the Ambush ability from Dreadwood has exactly the same wording as the Gnarlroot one. 

The bottom line is: In most cases, "a" just means "one". For me, the fact that GW did FAQ Gnarlroot but not Dreadwood (although the share the same formulation) and did not generalize their statement, leads to the conclusion that the Ambush-"a" does not work like the Gnarroot-"a" and therefore means "one" in this case.

 

Additional point: In my view it does not matter wether you deploy as a one-drop or not (for our argument), but maybe there is a thought about this point you would like to share?

[Nico]

7 hours ago, Luke1705 said:

Yeah totally misread the +1/+2. Forgot that didn’t apply. That’s what happens when I theory-craft late at night!

The number of units you can redeploy is the entire army though if you play it as a one drop. The FAQ is clear that an ability that says “a unit” like where it says “a dreadwood unit” in that redeploy ability actually means “any dreadwood unit(s)”. I assumed it meant 1 until I read the FAQ

“A” can mean either “one” or “any” depending on context - the Gnarlroot FAQ just confirms the two possibilities. It does not mean that “a” is always “any”. 

Reading the rule in context, it’s clearly “one” unit, not least as the move 3 Units Ability would them be 100% redundant.

Edited September 27, 2018 by Nico

[AaronWilson]

I did ask this on the rules section but no clear response so I wanted to ask here. Lots of our spells (Regrowth, Verdant Harmony, TLA Rile a forest) say "Select / pick a unit / wyldwood".

Am I right in saying as it doesn't say target, you don't need LoS to the unit you select / pick? 

[Isotop]

23 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

I did ask this on the rules section but no clear response so I wanted to ask here. Lots of our spells (Regrowth, Verdant Harmony, TLA Rile a forest) say "Select / pick a unit / wyldwood".

Am I right in saying as it doesn't say target, you don't need LoS to the unit you select / pick? 

As far as I know there is no definition of "select" and "pick" in the rules. So, in my view, you do not need LoS since  the spells in question do not specify needing LoS. 

[AaronWilson]

Yeah I have been playing it as needing LoS but after re-reading the battletome the other day due to being bored it occurred to me it didn't ask for LoS anywhere. That lead me to thinking do other spells do and checking a lot of other spells they do specifically state they require LoS so I'm with you on this one Isotop. 

[vesco]

On 9/24/2018 at 12:07 AM, LennyB said:

@vesco

I'm curious about your list.  I'm brand new to Sylvaneth and this looks like a list that I would like to run.  I was wondering what you would think about running the Dryads units as one 30 and one 10.  That would free up 30 points leaving 80.  That is enough for 2 Endless spells which seems attractive.  However, I was also thinking that if the Hunters were dropped to 3 instead of 6 then you (I) could take Drycha for 2K on the dot.  No Endless Spells.  What do you think?  Not just limited to vesco obviously.   . Thanks for the feedback!

Hi! I wont ever run 10 dryads it's too inconsistent also you get 10 from the bwraith.
i'm thinking about 20 dryads and 2 * 5 tree revenants for battle line freeing up 120 points... my tournament went pretty good, i won against FEC, got completely destroyed by Tzeentch, lost against Seraphon by just 1 points! I didn't played well againt tho still learning every spell and abilities  from our battletome plus those new riegn's rules..
I do like my list but i need to use those 50 points left, in all my games i ended up having command points that i didn't use.

 

[jake3991]

On 9/26/2018 at 3:43 AM, AaronWIlson said:

I know Ritchie from the just play podcast has been playing Dreadwood for a while, he's been posting solid results. Laurie went 4-1 this weekend with Winterleaf at Facehammer GT this weekend and Gnarlroot is super potent. Sylvaneth have got a lot of really good options right now

I know it's awesome right now! Has anyone posted good event results with gnarlroot yet? 

Edited September 27, 2018 by jake3991

[AaronWilson]

I won a won day event with Gnarlroot the otherday but no ones taking a GT out with them, yet! I'm heading to BOBO with Gnarlroot this year so.. miracles could happen

[jake3991]

3 minutes ago, AaronWIlson said:

I won a won day event with Gnarlroot the otherday but no ones taking a GT out with them, yet! I'm heading to BOBO with Gnarlroot this year so.. miracles could happen

Awesome! What are you running? I've been doing this.

Durthu

TLA

branchwitch

branchwraith

5 tree revs

20 dryads 

20 dryads 

6 hunters 

household/gnarlroot 

[Luke1705]

18 hours ago, Isotop said:

No offense guys, but I think @Luke1705 deserves a better answer/explanation than just "it can´t work this way, otherwise Dreadwood would be overpowered". The argument about ""A" always means singular" is probably pretty confusing for him as well, since he just quoted an FAQ that told him otherwise (in some kind).

 

I am afraid the FAQ is not as clear as you wish for. It does not talk about the phrases "a" and "any" in general, but refers specifically to the Gnarlroot wording. Nowhere does the FAQ state that it counts for every case of this formulation. They really should have added "Sorry for our terrible rules writing causing such an ambiguity ". I get where you are coming from, though, since the Ambush ability from Dreadwood has exactly the same wording as the Gnarlroot one. 

The bottom line is: In most cases, "a" just means "one". For me, the fact that GW did FAQ Gnarlroot but not Dreadwood (although the share the same formulation) and did not generalize their statement, leads to the conclusion that the Ambush-"a" does not work like the Gnarroot-"a" and therefore means "one" in this case.

 

Additional point: In my view it does not matter wether you deploy as a one-drop or not (for our argument), but maybe there is a thought about this point you would like to share?

See to be honest, I never even imagined that it would count as all of them until someone told me that people played Dreadwood that way and that’s why it was good. I said “no don’t be silly, that can’t be right. ‘A’ means one. Perhaps there is an FAQ that settles this”

What I see the FAQ as is setting precedent. Why would they say that a means all for one formation and not intend to imply that this is the case for all formations (or at the very least, all Sylvaneth formations)?

I can understand and appreciate people saying “hey until it’s explicit, I’m not going to play it like that”. And Sylvaneth is like my fourth next army project. Might be 3rd edition before I actually play them so it’s likely rather moot for me.  But to me, this seems to have been answered. I’d be very curious to know how some larger events have played this (because I would be decently surprised if every event was in agreement one way other the other)