AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[CaptainBerk]

Whilst only one Sylvaneth unit can teleport a turn using the realmroots, don't forget that any number of Treelords/Ancients/Durthus and the Tree Revenants can teleport every turn, and the Tree Revenants can teleport anywhere on the board.

You only have to be wholly within 6" of the wood too, which gives smaller foot print units more distance.

I've played 3 games with the new book now and the army is just as mobile as before, and with the +charge buffs it's easier to get those 9" charges off too

[Trevelyan]

21 hours ago, Thorsten said:

Alarielle got nerfed pretty hard.

Alarielle got moved from “auto include” to merely “good to include”. What she lost on her warscroll (and extra d3 healing and changes to her command ability) she gained in access to some very nice Glade abilities.  

4 hours ago, Kramig said:

I'm a bit disappointed of this new battletome:

- battalions abilities are useless, but you must take them if you want the second artifact

- we can teleport only 1 unit per turn

- the first wood can't be deployed in opponent deployment 

However, there are also some good:

- all mages know the spell for summoning woods

- awakened wood abilities with charge: according to the rule, every time you or your opponent charge you roll the dice for damage opponent unit

The objections of someone who hasn’t looked at things in aggregate or tried them on the table. 

Battalions aren’t an auto take any more because the whole nature of list building has changed. You don’t need them in the same way as previously to qualify for a Wargrove for that single drop. And you really don’t need that many artefacts (however much you might want them). Yet most of them are as good, or better, than they were before, and there are plenty of nice combos to be had. 

We can teleport any number of treelord variants and tree revenants. It’s only Kurnoths, Dryads and Spite Revenants that are really restricted, and how often do you really need to teleport those? Don’t overlook the value of the Forest spirits ability to get several units into play by an advanced wood on your first turn. 

We were never guaranteed to get the first wood in enemy territory. It could happen, but since the wood was placed before people picked sides, you had at best a 50:50 chance, assuming you didn’t want the wood yourself as a staging area. And remember that an enemy deployed near or in a wood in his territory would effectively deny you the use of it as a teleport platform anyway. 

You don’t seem to have read the new wood rules clearly. You roll once at the end of each charge phase regardless of whether anyone, or everyone, charged. 

[Kramig]

3 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

 

You don’t seem to have read the new wood rules clearly. You roll once at the end of each charge phase regardless of whether anyone, or everyone, charged. 

That was what I actually meant, maybe I wrote in the wrong way, sorry. This is a good point IMHO. 

 often we rather have the first turn in order to summon woods, so reducing drops is very useful. 

[Nick in York]

7 hours ago, Kramig said:

 

Ignore this - point had already been made, my phone slow to update.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Nick in York
Reason for post had already been covered - my phone had not loaded later replies

[Emissary]

3 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

Alarielle got moved from “auto include” to merely “good to include”. What she lost on her warscroll (and extra d3 healing and changes to her command ability) she gained in access to some very nice Glade abilities.  

Not to mention that her summon ability, talon of dwindling and impact hits got better.

[Trevelyan]

1 hour ago, Emissary said:

Not to mention that her summon ability, talon of dwindling and impact hits got better.

True. Although I wish they’d updated her Spite Revenant summoning  to 20 Spites to align with the new unit costs. She still seems to be summoning based on some very obsolete data points. 

[Emissary]

4 minutes ago, Trevelyan said:

True. Although I wish they’d updated her Spite Revenant summoning  to 20 Spites to align with the new unit costs. She still seems to be summoning based on some very obsolete data points. 

Yup, I was referring more to the fact that she can summon after she moves now instead of before.  It's really significant on a 16" move flying model.

Edited July 18, 2019 by Emissary

[Trevelyan]

2 hours ago, Emissary said:

Yup, I was referring more to the fact that she can summon after she moves now instead of before.  It's really significant on a 16" move flying model.

Definitely. So much potential, ranging from the ever-popular dropping Kurnoth Hunters behind enemy lines, to my new favourite:

Alarielle: ”I’m going to control this objective”

Opponent: “You and what army?”

Alarielle: *summons 20 Dryads*

Opponent: “******”

(my opponent had calculated that I couldn’t fly Alarielle over his battleline and into range of the objective without running, and if I ran then the few models he had on the edge of the control zone would prevent Alarielle from taking control that turn. He realised too late that I could run Alarielle over his line and into the zone, then summon enough Dryads 9” away from his line but still in the control zone to take the objective that turn)

Edited July 18, 2019 by Trevelyan
Anecdote

[Warbossironteef]

I feel like there might be some "hidden tech" for non-glade armies in the book. Warsinger seems so powerful in a Double Durthu list. Giving +2 to charge to 2 Durthus or some combination of a Durthu and another unit is so ridiculously good, especially when your Durthu's can go wood-surfing. You could combine this with Cogs too.

Does anyone have any tips for how to run a Double Durthu list? There are also some amazing non-glade artefacts as well and I think it could be a viable option.

[Predien]

6 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

I feel like there might be some "hidden tech" for non-glade armies in the book. Warsinger seems so powerful in a Double Durthu list. Giving +2 to charge to 2 Durthus or some combination of a Durthu and another unit is so ridiculously good, especially when your Durthu's can go wood-surfing. You could combine this with Cogs too.

Does anyone have any tips for how to run a Double Durthu list? There are also some amazing non-glade artefacts as well and I think it could be a viable option.

I was thinking about lists last night and realized you can get +8 to charges on a general with Warsinger, Everdew Vial, Spiteswarm Hive and the Cogs.  I'm stoked for this new book.

[Warbossironteef]

Yeah I'm not sure I'd go for the Spiteswarm but all other 3 seem valid. If you can get woods down you can be TP'ing and charging all over the place. Plus 2x Durthu Death squads give you a solid chance of getting your stomp off. Maybe A TLA for a third stomp, woods, and some healing support to keep the Durthu General alive.

The -1 to all hits artefact is also awesome.

[Emissary]

46 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

Yeah I'm not sure I'd go for the Spiteswarm but all other 3 seem valid. If you can get woods down you can be TP'ing and charging all over the place. Plus 2x Durthu Death squads give you a solid chance of getting your stomp off. Maybe A TLA for a third stomp, woods, and some healing support to keep the Durthu General alive.

The -1 to all hits artefact is also awesome.

I've used spiteswarm 3 times.  The spell is money.

[Frowny]

I agree. I find first then I make a woods in my backfield and put the hive into or near it. It enabled an easy first turn strike (jump from backfield woods with +3 charge to a forward wood) and then follows it up with a nice platform for summoning more dryads. And the reroll 1s is down for holding the objective it is near

[thediceabide]

So I’ve decided to pick up Sylvaneth. To get the ball rolling I got Drycha (gorgeous mini), 9 Kurnoth Hunters and 2 Start Collecting boxes. The big question is what’s next?

Aside from trees and spells, should I be investing in Revenants? I’m having a hard time gauging how they play and which revenants are worthwhile (and in what quantity).

Thanks in advance for any advice!

[Trevelyan]

22 minutes ago, thediceabide said:

The big question is what’s next?

Aside from trees and spells, should I be investing in Revenants? I’m having a hard time gauging how they play and which revenants are worthwhile (and in what quantity).

You’ll want to pick an assembly option for the various kits. If you’re not magnetising (which is a pain with Kurnoth and very unsatisfactory with treelords - you can swap weapons but miss the other changes) then I’d recommend you use the treelord kits to make one Treelord Ancient and one Spirit of Durthu. For the Kurnoth Hunters, make six with scythes (and only one actual leader - use the variant leader pose scythe if you want to play WYSIWYG) and three with swords. 

You will need a Branchwraith, but some people convert a spare Wych, which you have. 

Revenants are all good as of the new book. You will rarely need more than two units of Tree Revenants. Taken in fives they are excellent objective takers and the threat of them teleporting around can limit enemy mobility. There has been some discussion on this in the last few pages. 

Spite revenants are now our hardest hitting battleline infantry and come at the same price as the Dryads (for a unit of 20). But 20 Spites hit harder than 30 Dryads, albeit without the same durability. Personally I’ve got 30 (plus a few spares for playing bigger units in full WYSIWYG), but 20 should be plenty in most cases. There has been a lot of discussion about the Spites recently too.

 

[Trevelyan]

Community question: how are people seeing the GHB errata removal of “citadel wood” and insertion of “wyldwood” in the matched play terrain table interpreted locally?

My initial assumption was that a “wyldwood” was something distinct from an “Awakened wyldwood”, so we couldn’t take faction friendly terrain as part of the basic matched play terrain placement. Essentially it was a covert rebranding of the existing Citadel Wood Warscroll. 

I assumed we would get an update to the warscrolls in the app to clarify this when it was updated with new Sylvaneth content  but the app is updated with our content and there is still no generic wyldwood.

Recently I've seen people locally, not even other Sylvaneth players, seem happy to assume that they can deposit Awakened Wyldwoods as basic terrain. When neither player is Sylvaneth, they present an interesting hazard and can potentially limit (or sometimes enhance) magic-heavy armies. One local Tzeentch player has to think much harder about where his units and casters are when spells start flying. An Orruk player pointed out that he can place Realmgates as generic scenery and through his allegiance ability to improve his mobility, so doesn’t see an inherent objection to Sylvaneth doing the same.

Perhaps the change from a Sylvaneth wood to a generic Awakened Wood represents a shift in approach - they aren’t a faction specific feature any more so much as a generic feature that our faction works well with. 

Is there any emerging consensus around this elsewhere? What are people seeing in practice? I’d anyone else even discussing it?

Maybe a further update will appear to clarify this after the weekend, but if it doesn’t... thoughts?

Edited July 19, 2019 by Trevelyan
Because I can

[Frowny]

And a related question: 

are we allowed to use the old sylvaneth wildwoods as 'awakened wildwoods'? Otherwise it will take me a quite a long time to buy all the new trees. They are pretty expensive (again), much more so than the wildwoods, and I already have ~6 of those...  I think reading the designer commentary the answer is yes, but i'm unsure

 

[EMMachine]

9 minutes ago, Frowny said:

And a related question: 

are we allowed to use the old sylvaneth wildwoods as 'awakened wildwoods'? Otherwise it will take me a quite a long time to buy all the new trees. They are pretty expensive (again), much more so than the wildwoods, and I already have ~6 of those...  I think reading the designer commentary the answer is yes, but i'm unsure

 

The question was already answered 8 days ago on Warhammer Community

Quote

Q: Can I use my old Citadel Wood models as an Awakened Wyldwood?

A: Yes you can. If you have one of the old Citadel Wood models (see image below) this can be used as 1 Awakened Wyldwood terrain feature.

 

[Warbossironteef]

15 hours ago, Emissary said:

I've used spiteswarm 3 times.  The spell is money.

That's cool. I'm sure when it works it is powerful but it is still a little unreliable and restrictive for my taste. It has a limited cast range, wholly within 8 inches effect and it will relies on dice roll (albeit a 2+). I will probably stick to casting cogs the turn I plan on making big charges or an alpha. You can cast it anywhere and it will get the job done. 

[The World Tree]

19 hours ago, Trevelyan said:

Definitely. So much potential, ranging from the ever-popular dropping Kurnoth Hunters behind enemy lines, to my new favourite:

Alarielle: ”I’m going to control this objective”

Opponent: “You and what army?”

Alarielle: *summons 20 Dryads*

Opponent: “******”

(my opponent had calculated that I couldn’t fly Alarielle over his battleline and into range of the objective without running, and if I ran then the few models he had on the edge of the control zone would prevent Alarielle from taking control that turn. He realised too late that I could run Alarielle over his line and into the zone, then summon enough Dryads 9” away from his line but still in the control zone to take the objective that turn)

It is worth being mindful that on the missions where you move on to claim objectives, summons count as set up not move.

[Trevelyan]

26 minutes ago, The World Tree said:

It is worth being mindful that on the missions where you move on to claim objectives, summons count as set up not move.

Worth noting, yes. But the majority are just based on bodies in proximity at the end of the turn. 

[Frowny]

49 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

That's cool. I'm sure when it works it is powerful but it is still a little unreliable and restrictive for my taste. It has a limited cast range, wholly within 8 inches effect and it will relies on dice roll (albeit a 2+). I will probably stick to casting cogs the turn I plan on making big charges or an alpha. You can cast it anywhere and it will get the job done. 

True but it's one sided unlike cogs and +3 makes for a more reliable charge than only +2. A 6inch charge with a reroll is 92 percent successful, which is quite good. (Mid 70s without). 

 

I also like that you can put it somewhere and then jump your tree revenants to it, giving them a likely easy charge anywhere on the board the next turn.

 

But yes, definitely better for hunters or treelords than big units of spite revenants or dryads, which are hard to get within 8.

[Tree Fu Tom]

Hello everyone,

I've a bit of a noob question...

Does the Branchwraith's summoning ability of 10 dryads cost anything in points?

[Emissary]

46 minutes ago, Tree Fu Tom said:

Hello everyone,

I've a bit of a noob question...

Does the Branchwraith's summoning ability of 10 dryads cost anything in points?

No

case anyone is interested, here is the size of the new Wyldwood to the old:

In

It's slightly higher in terms of the trees and it looks like the leaves won't fall off.  

Also, the Vengeful Skullroot is larger than I expected.

[scrubyandwells]

2 hours ago, Emissary said:

In case anyone is interested, here is the size of the new Wyldwood to the old:

In

Thanks!

Would you care to get the approximate width x length dimensions?

And if you have a second one, would be great to see some photos of what's possible with up to 6 of the "Citadel Woods models," to use their updated terminology, where 1 of the new Awakened Wyldwood kits consists of 3 Citadel Woods models.