AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Jaskier]

In all honesty, the fake 'leak' rules did sound a bit overpowering if you had the teleport after fighting in mind; a speedy super high damage unit that can freely retreat after striking to a spot that protects them from most counter pressure is scary as hell. 

Even so, their actual rules look quite strong as well. 4 Rend 2 attacks each is no joke even if they are only Damage 1. Add the mount attacks and the 2" reach on everything making them ideal reinforce targets and that's actually a very scary unit. The utility of strike first on the charge is immense not just for determining where you'll teleport a unit out of combat but mostly just so you can pulverise something without fear of reprisal elsewhere before you get to activate something else.

Assuming they are on a 4+ save (5+ would be odd given the shields, and 3+ would have too much overlap with Kurnoths) having 5 Wounds each is fantastic because it's the magic number to count as 2 models each on objectives. Having a 5+ Rally and the ability to heal all wounds after killing just a single model each fight phase on such a beefy unit that *wants* to be reinforced is nuts. This unit hits pretty hard, has all the advantages of other flying cavalry, and looks really tough to shift - and if caught in an unfavourable spot, you can just teleport them away.

Honestly, unless these only have a 5+ save (doubtful) I expect these things will be quite pricey as they do so much.

[Freejack02]

3 hours ago, Landohammer said:

Anyway, my point is that its ok for Spiteriders to just be an okay unit. I don't need them to break the game.

No one is asking for them to "break the game", just to not have so many points wrapped up in defense. Of course it's hard to say without knowing points or the full scroll, but if they're truly a hit-and-run unit then they don't need 5W per model - they're going to run into the same issue Kurnoth Bows have... a little too much defensively, a little short offensively. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Freejack02

[Landohammer]

12 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

No one is asking for them to "break the game", just to not have so many points wrapped up in defense. Of course it's hard to say without knowing points or the full scroll, but if they're truly a hit-and-run unit then they don't need 5W per model - they're going to run into the same issue Kurnoth Bows have... a little too much defensively, a little short offensively. 

Thats fair. But I think spiteriders bring a lot more to the table than just damage. Bowhunters aren't good at their only job ( artillery style shooting)  while spite riders are quite good at a lot of things. (taking objectives, surviving, avoidance). Defense points are a lot more valuable on cavalry than they are on  artillery, because my cavalry are intended to be engaged. 

I'm also hoping that their lances will be damage 2 on the charge (like literally every other unit with lances) but I don't think its mandatory for them to be good. 

 

[Jaskier]

Their offensive stats are still quite good, just not top tier. Having a boat load of Rend 2 attacks is still going to force wounds through on most things. 5 Wounds each, presumably a 4+ save and the full heal ability mean they trade extremely well too - and it generally will trigger unless they're fighting a monster (which you can just teleport away from if need be) so if your opponent doesn't fully kill one it's going to get a lot of mileage - overall they're going to be very annoying for opponents to deal with. 

Edited June 9, 2022 by Jaskier

[Bosskelot]

Have there been any more leaks about the potential stats of the various Kurnoth Hunter loadouts?

The bows from the EoD set don't look particularly impressive.

[Landohammer]

1 hour ago, Bosskelot said:

Have there been any more leaks about the potential stats of the various Kurnoth Hunter loadouts?

The bows from the EoD set don't look particularly impressive.

No but we can make some inferences.

Based on the bowhunter they will probably remain largely the same, other than gaining a base 3+ save and the change to Envoys of the Everqueen. I initially figured Scythes would go to 2 damage but Lady of Vines has D3 damage attacks so D3 is still on the table. 

This all looks good but with bowhunters being 255pt, this could put Swordhunters at 265pts which is getting into some really expensive territory and honestly I'm a bit worried about them. But there are a few things that could help them out and they are:

-Can they be unlocked as battleline?

-Is heed the spirit song still around? 

-What are the subfaction bonuses? 

-What kind of support will they get from the Arch Revenant?

With the change to Envoys, Heed the Spirit song remaining the same doesn't make sense, because it loses all synergy. Why would I pop Heed when A) it no longer auras from every Kurnoth and B) All out defense has a 50% chance of duplicating off the Kurnoth.

 

[Lord Krungharr]

I know nothing, but I have 12 metal Dryads, 2 metal Treelords, a metal Treelord Ancient, a metal Treekin to be a Branchwraith/Wych, and the metal Durthu, another metal Treelord body to become a 'Lady' of the Vines, and just ordered a box of the Sylvaneth Endless Spells.  Ready to grow my grumpy old-man orchard....if the new tome ever comes out already?!?!?

[readercolin]

24 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

I know nothing, but I have 12 metal Dryads, 2 metal Treelords, a metal Treelord Ancient, a metal Treekin to be a Branchwraith/Wych, and the metal Durthu, another metal Treelord body to become a 'Lady' of the Vines, and just ordered a box of the Sylvaneth Endless Spells.  Ready to grow my grumpy old-man orchard....if the new tome ever comes out already?!?!?

New tome up for pre order next week, so you will finally be able to tend your orchard.

Edited June 12, 2022 by readercolin

[Lord Krungharr]

Hooray!

[Arzalyn]

More rules! The Season of War ability are 4 different options that we choose before the game start and that affect our Overgrowth terrain and Woods.

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/14/the-sylvaneth-seasons-of-war-bring-the-power-of-nature-to-the-battlefield/

They show two interesting ones and give hints of the other two in the text:

- Burgeoning: 6+ ward near them (not much, but should be generically good).

- Reaping: "expanding the range of your arboreal abilities" sound like some effect to increase the range of our abilities that care to be near woods/overgrowth terrain. If this is correct this can be pretty strong, depending on how easy it is to create new woods/overgrotwth terrain outside of the ones we start with.

- Dwindling: "Tapping into this life magic offers buffs to SYLVANETH WIZARDS within range of overgrown terrain or Awakened Wyldwoods" sounds like some bonus to cast. My bet would be the +1 to cast like the Warsong have. Pretty good if our spell lore remains solid.

- Everdusk: Reduce our range but give exploding 6's to hit to melee weapons. The reduced range is basically what we are used to alredy, so it can be worked with. This one, like the Reaping, will depend on how easy is to get new woods/overgrowth around the field and how much we end focusing on melee units as well.

[KingGatorboy]

1 hour ago, Arzalyn said:

 

- Everdusk: Reduce our range but give exploding 6's to hit to melee weapons. The reduced range is basically what we are used to alredy, so it can be worked with. This one, like the Reaping, will depend on how easy is to get new woods/overgrowth around the field and how much we end focusing on melee units as well.

This one is definitely the weakest option. Major nerf to the winterleaf version that is unconditional. It’s not horrible, but requires too much positioning. Not only do they have to be wholly within 6 inches of a wyldwood to get it now, it reduces ALL of our ability ranges? That’s pretty trash. I can’t see any reason why someone would take that over a 6+ ward. Sure the ward requires that you don’t charge, but our stuff is slow af anyways, and we don’t have a 1-drop that lets us bring alarielle and anything other than warsong, branchwraith/wych, or arch revenant so we aren’t going first anyways

[Kaylethia]

Don’t knock it until we see all the rules. 
It’s possible it’ll be as you say, it’s also possible that we’ll end most games with 75% of the scenery as overgrown and six trees on the board as well. 

[gromleur]

53 minutes ago, KingGatorboy said:

This one is definitely the weakest option. Major nerf to the winterleaf version that is unconditional. It’s not horrible, but requires too much positioning. Not only do they have to be wholly within 6 inches of a wyldwood to get it now, it reduces ALL of our ability ranges? That’s pretty trash. I can’t see any reason why someone would take that over a 6+ ward. Sure the ward requires that you don’t charge, but our stuff is slow af anyways, and we don’t have a 1-drop that lets us bring alarielle and anything other than warsong, branchwraith/wych, or arch revenant so we aren’t going first anyways

Except winterleaf did not apply to named Characters if I remember corectly. So it's also a small improvement.

[KingGatorboy]

18 minutes ago, gromleur said:

Except winterleaf did not apply to named Characters if I remember corectly. So it's also a small improvement.

It applied to everything that didn’t have a premade subfaction. None of our named characters are bound to a subfaction so everyone had it.

[Mirage8112]

1 hour ago, KingGatorboy said:

Not only do they have to be wholly within 6 inches of a wyldwood to get it now, it reduces ALL of our ability ranges? That’s pretty trash.

I think your misreading the text. It only reduces buffs from woods (and abilities attached to them: things like teleporting and healing). Normally it’s 9” but this season seems to reduce it to 6”; which is basically what we’ve been playing with all along. not to mention you’ll have a whole lot more woods/overgrown terrain on the table, so I doubt it will be an issue. 

[Azamar]

16 minutes ago, gromleur said:

Except winterleaf did not apply to named Characters if I remember corectly. So it's also a small improvement.

It did for all except the underworlds warbands as far as I know? Only time subfaction stuff doesn’t apply is if a named character has a subfaction keyword already so they can’t gain a second.

[gromleur]

Yes My bad 😅

[Arzalyn]

5 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

I think your misreading the text. It only reduces buffs from woods (and abilities attached to them: things like teleporting and healing). Normally it’s 9” but this season seems to reduce it to 6”; which is basically what we’ve been playing with all along. not to mention you’ll have a whole lot more woods/overgrown terrain on the table, so I doubt it will be an issue. 

Yeah, I think "how easy is to create new woods/turn terrain overgrowth in this tome" is the key question to be able to weight which of those are the best. If its pretty hard to get extra ones other than the starting ones, the extended range will probably be our main go-to option. If its easy, loosing some range may hardly be a draw back to get a strong attack buff. If the main way to get new ones is still though casting, the casting bonus may be the best option. I really hope the answer will be "its easy if you build around it" so we can see some list variety and make which one we choose something truly relevant.

[Landohammer]

I'm glad the exploding 6's from winterleaf still remain. It appears Seasons are distinct from subfactions so its possible we will have these in addition to whatever subfactions bring.

The ward and casting bonuses are also appealing. But exploding 6's are so beneficial to our army that its gonna be hard to pass on. They make every unit significantly better in combat. 

[Lanoss]

Perhaps there’ll be a spell to swap Seasons…

[Arzalyn]

59 minutes ago, Lanoss said:

Perhaps there’ll be a spell to swap Seasons…

Judging by things like the idoneth tides, a once be game command trait or artefact could also be possible. Maybe something that let you apply the effects from a extra season during a turn could be possible as well.

[Domize]

Wasn't there a rumoured leak about wyldwoods acting as spell portals? I wonder if that'll be the wizard buff, rather than a + to casting.

[Nqshou]

Not sure if I can link a picture of the new points for Sylvaneth?..

Treelord and KH battleline in the right sub-faction.

Edit : Already posted in the Rumor Thread by someone else:

Battleline:

Dryads 100

Tree revenants 110

 

Conditional battleline:

Treelord, oakenbrow army 260

Kurnoth hunters, heartwood army

Bows 230

Scythes 250

Swords 250

Spite revenants, dreadwood army 105

Revenant Seekers, Harvestboon army, 235

Spiterider Lancers, Harvestboon army, 210

 

Leaders:

Arch-Revenant 120

Branchwraith - Unlisted -

Branchwych 130

Drycha 335

Ylthari (and guardians) 180

Lady of Vines 325

Warsong Revenant 305

Alarielle 840

Treelord Ancient 360

Spirit of Durthu 370

 

Other:

Gossamid archers 220

Skaeth’s Wild Hunt 110

 

Endless spells:

Spiteswarm Hive 40

Gladewyrm 50

Vengeful skull root 60

 

Awakened Wyldwood 0 faction terrain

Edited June 16, 2022 by Nqshou

[Landohammer]

Hot Take on points so far:

Treelords must be getting the extra wounds and impale. But even with that, +44% Point hike seems excessive. Perhaps sweeping blows got better too?

Kurnoth - Seem right on target if pricy. Gaining battleline here is huge

Spite Revs - I am hoping to God they got two wounds. +50% points and loss of universal battleline is very painful. Maybe dreadwood is going to be an amazing sub?

Branchwraith - gone. This confirms my prediction that the old gal was finely being retired

Alarielle - absolutely shelf decoration again. Shame because her new profile was pretty spicy. But not for that cost. 

Spiteriders- These guys are the clear winners for competitive builds in the new book. They are the most reasonable costed wounds, have the most synergy, and get a battleline unlock. 

Allies - We finally get Wanderers back! Along with the rest of cities and unmitigated access to Fyreslayers. Thats pretty cool. Not sure why Dok get access to us but not vice versa tho. 

Overall consensus is that we are an extremely elite army now, unlikely to have more than 100 wounds in lists. But note there have been some leaks showing LRL with some hefty point hikes too. So perhaps we are seeing across the board price hikes? 

[Arzalyn]

1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

Alarielle - absolutely shelf decoration again. Shame because her new profile was pretty spicy. But not for that cost. 

Just a heads up, one of the Playtester on the Sylvaneth whatsapp group pretty much confirmed the picture with her leaked warscroll was a fake. So there is hope that she will be worth still!

1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

Overall consensus is that we are an extremely elite army now, unlikely to have more than 100 wounds in lists. But note there have been some leaks showing LRL with some hefty point hikes too. So perhaps we are seeing across the board price hikes? 

Yeah, increases across the board was pretty much expected, as near all the 3 edition tomes so far had the same happen to them. The treelords and spites increase should indicate huge changes to those warscrolls tough (or at least is what I hope to justify them...).

Assuming the tree-revs still have just 1 wound and that no one get the wraith spell, I can see Dryads been on of the winner as well. It will be much more important to have some screens in our starting list if we can't generate them each turn and they should be the cheapest bodies and wounds/points ratio we have.