AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Lavieth]

Is it safe to say that 2 boxes of woods should be plenty now? 

[Mokoshkana]

4 hours ago, Lavieth said:

Is it safe to say that 2 boxes of woods should be plenty now? 

Should be good. I think 3 is probably the max necessary 

[Landohammer]

Took an army with 5 Gossamids and new Durthu to a tourney this weekend. I would have fielded Lady of Vines too but my Echoes boxes arrived a week late so I had to paint and assemble the gossamids the night before

Managed to go 2-1. I played Stormcast 3 times in a row lol. Beating two lists with 4+ stormdrakes. My loss was to the guy who took second. He brought Judicators with hurricane bows and a ****** ton of annihilators and just shot/mortal wounded me of the board top of 1. I had like 1200 points left going into my first turn :S. Still had a blast tho.

Thoughts on new warscrolls.

New Durthu is an absolute power house. He single handedly killed 4 stormdrakes and 2 celestant primes over the course of a weekend. He is a model your opponent has to plan their entire strategy around. I naturally gave him the Frozen Kernel in winterleaf, so its likely we will lose that combo in the new book. But as long as you keep him near a woods (and keep a CP for all out attack) he will do his job.

Gossamids as expected, did absolutely fine. No more, no less. They are nowwhere near the boogey man people claim them to be. I really enjoyed fielding them because they offer some diversity to slow tough trees. I plan to bring at least 5 in every list. I tried to keep them in awakened wyldwoods to block LOS. 

Overall I am really optimistic for our new book. I know the price hike on Kurnoth is going to hurt, but potential battleline unlocks and the spite riders are going to make this army very fun. 

 

[xking]

5 hours ago, Landohammer said:

Took an army with 5 Gossamids and new Durthu to a tourney this weekend. I would have fielded Lady of Vines too but my Echoes boxes arrived a week late so I had to paint and assemble the gossamids the night before

Managed to go 2-1. I played Stormcast 3 times in a row lol. Beating two lists with 4+ stormdrakes. My loss was to the guy who took second. He brought Judicators with hurricane bows and a ****** ton of annihilators and just shot/mortal wounded me of the board top of 1. I had like 1200 points left going into my first turn :S. Still had a blast tho.

Thoughts on new warscrolls.

New Durthu is an absolute power house. He single handedly killed 4 stormdrakes and 2 celestant primes over the course of a weekend. He is a model your opponent has to plan their entire strategy around. I naturally gave him the Frozen Kernel in winterleaf, so its likely we will lose that combo in the new book. But as long as you keep him near a woods (and keep a CP for all out attack) he will do his job.

Gossamids as expected, did absolutely fine. No more, no less. They are nowwhere near the boogey man people claim them to be. I really enjoyed fielding them because they offer some diversity to slow tough trees. I plan to bring at least 5 in every list. I tried to keep them in awakened wyldwoods to block LOS. 

Overall I am really optimistic for our new book. I know the price hike on Kurnoth is going to hurt, but potential battleline unlocks and the spite riders are going to make this army very fun. 

 

I aplode you good sir, well done.

 

[Freejack02]

11 hours ago, Landohammer said:

Overall I am really optimistic for our new book. I know the price hike on Kurnoth is going to hurt, but potential battleline unlocks and the spite riders are going to make this army very fun. 

I think I'm most excited about 2 things: the potential battleline unlocks as you put it, and less reliance on having to litter the board with wyldwoods now with the new overgrown terrain rules. I would absolutely love to see regular Treemen become battleline somehow (although I know that's a longshot), but I would really like more flexible battleline options. 

[Landohammer]

11 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

I think I'm most excited about 2 things: the potential battleline unlocks as you put it, and less reliance on having to litter the board with wyldwoods now with the new overgrown terrain rules. I would absolutely love to see regular Treemen become battleline somehow (although I know that's a longshot), but I would really like more flexible battleline options. 

Every codex released this year with an eligible monster has been given the option of monster battleline. So its looking good for us. 

Though keep in mind that groundshaker being a monstrous rampage now removes the ability to spam it, making duplicate treelords less appealing. But the improved Talon profile is huge, and assuming their points remain reasonable they are definitely appealing a.

I'm just tired of taking minimum Spites/Treerevs every game as filler TBH. Any new battleline would make me happy.

[Freejack02]

Yeah, I mainly just want giant trees as battleline. 

[TheGrayKing]

I just want Kurnoth Hunters to be Battleline as they're my favorite set of models right after the Spirit of Durthu

Edited June 7, 2022 by TheGrayKing

[Arzalyn]

We got some info on the Spiteriders Lancers:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/08/quicker-than-a-flash-the-spiterider-lancers-strike-at-foes-before-they-can-react/

5 Wounds each model, ASF when they charge, heal all wounds when they kill a model and the musician change their rally to a 5+. Looks pretty good as a fast cavalry unit! Lets just hope they don't cost over 250 points to clash with the Hunters in points.

(Also the attack profile confirms that the "leak" we got last week was false).

[Mirage8112]

9 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

(Also the attack profile confirms that the "leak" we got last week was false).

Don’t forget these make two variations. The second I don’t think we’ve gotten rules for yet. 

[Arzalyn]

2 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

Don’t forget these make two variations. The second I don’t think we’ve gotten rules for yet. 

Well the rules for the lancers were all wrong, so I wouldn't believe the "180 for alternative build, fight worse, but resurrect d3 models or heal d6 wounds"  is correct either. As far as I know this was the unique leak for these warscrolls.

I do wonder if the alternative build will be less combat focused and more support oriented. Hopefully they will be different enough in function and points.

[Landohammer]

25 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

We got some info on the Spiteriders Lancers:

https://www.warhammer-community.com/2022/06/08/quicker-than-a-flash-the-spiterider-lancers-strike-at-foes-before-they-can-react/

5 Wounds each model, ASF when they charge, heal all wounds when they kill a model and the musician change their rally to a 5+. Looks pretty good as a fast cavalry unit! Lets just hope they don't cost over 250 points to clash with the Hunters in points.

(Also the attack profile confirms that the "leak" we got last week was false).

Hype!!! I am actually cool that they are more tanky than hitty, since we will likely still have access to Eels for that role anyway. But at 7 attacks per model its not like they are slap fighting. Curious if the lances will get damage 2 on the charge? Also note the rider and bug are range 2" so units of 6 are feasible. 

Plaguedrones and Eels are 200 and 195pts respectively. So I'm hoping Spiteriders hang around that cost as well. With Kurnoth getting bumped to 255+ its going to be tricky if they are much more than 200. 

 

[Mirage8112]

11 minutes ago, Arzalyn said:

Well the rules for the lancers were all wrong, so I wouldn't believe the "180 for alternative build, fight worse, but resurrect d3 models or heal d6 wounds"  is correct either. As far as I know this was the unique leak for these warscrolls.

The leak wasn’t totally accurate for sure, but it’s not terribly far off either. Being able to heal after killing a single model is 4 wound max, (which is actually better than D6 wounds) And with the musicians rule, they do get to bring back models on a 5+, so there is definitely a resurrection mechanic at play. 
 

Warhammer com also said these models share the same rules with the revenant seekers:

“These flying warriors share both Thrumming with Life and their magical musicians with the Revenant Seekers”.

This makes me think both sets of this unit have additional rules we’ve not seen yet. Otherwise if that’s all they can do there’s not much to distinguish between them. So perhaps the mortal wounds on hit and resurrecting models from other units is still on the table.  

 

[Yondaime]

29 minutes ago, Landohammer said:

Hype!!! I am actually cool that they are more tanky than hitty, since we will likely still have access to Eels for that role anyway. But at 7 attacks per model its not like they are slap fighting. Curious if the lances will get damage 2 on the charge? Also note the rider and bug are range 2" so units of 6 are feasible. 

Plaguedrones and Eels are 200 and 195pts respectively. So I'm hoping Spiteriders hang around that cost as well. With Kurnoth getting bumped to 255+ its going to be tricky if they are much more than 200. 

 

i hope really not, nurgle drones are like s tier for both damage and tankyness, eels are mhe, they hit like an absolute truck but die like flyes

 

This seems does neither of the two, they are frail and do like 2 wound on average on a +2 save

[redbirdhouse]

26 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

The leak wasn’t totally accurate for sure, but it’s not terribly far off either. Being able to heal after killing a single model is 4 wound max, (which is actually better than D6 wounds) And with the musicians rule, they do get to bring back models on a 5+, so there is definitely a resurrection mechanic at play. 
 

Warhammer com also said these models share the same rules with the revenant seekers:

“These flying warriors share both Thrumming with Life and their magical musicians with the Revenant Seekers”.

This makes me think both sets of this unit have additional rules we’ve not seen yet. Otherwise if that’s all they can do there’s not much to distinguish between them. So perhaps the mortal wounds on hit and resurrecting models from other units is still on the table.  

 

Given that the leak was wrong about literally everything that was revealed today, I wouldn't put too much stock in it lol. I always love me some revive shenanigans though.

[Landohammer]

13 minutes ago, Yondaime said:

i hope really not, nurgle drones are like s tier for both damage and tankyness, eels are mhe, they hit like an absolute truck but die like flyes

 

This seems does neither of the two, they are frail and do like 2 wound on average on a +2 save

I mean 2+ saves aren't really what I would measure them vs. And we still havent seen their full warscroll or allegiance abilities. 

Also keep in mind they we will have access to a retreat after attacking as well as a fairly reliable ASL mechanic, so I'm ok with a relatively mild damage output. 

Imagine charging with a squad of these guys and another unit. Activating both, then retreating these guys into woods before you opponent even activates. We will have a forest and a 5+ Rally to use if they get targeted by shooting. The synergy looks quite strong. 

[Beliman]

41 minutes ago, Yondaime said:

This seems does neither of the two, they are frail and do like 2 wound on average on a +2 save

I think they are really good

I got  3,89 wounds vs 2+ saves in AoS Stathammer, not the best but far away from the worst.
They can tp after punching enemies if they don't kill their main target and look for heals in the next turn (or 5+rally). With 2", they can be really scary to play against with 6 of them.

 

[KingGatorboy]

They are definitely meant to be reinforced due to them all having 2 inch range. If you position them properly (which at such a high movement distance you should be able to), you can easily double their damage output. With two units of 6, I wouldn’t be too scared of anything since they all get strike-first. I’m shocked they didnt make it strike-first within a certain distance of wyldwoods.

[Lord Krungharr]

Are we hopeful about Treelords being battleline somehow?  Cuz an army of really old fugly metal Ents would be super duper fun!

[Freejack02]

Maybe I'm blind, but where are you seeing 5w per model? 

I wish they did more damage and had less life (to benefit their ASF rule), but I guess we have to wait for a full warscroll and points cost first. 

[Arzalyn]

5 minutes ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Are we hopeful about Treelords being battleline somehow?  Cuz an army of really old fugly metal Ents would be super duper fun!

If they keep Oakenbrown focused on Treelords, it would make sense to allow them as a battleline with that sub-faction. Monster as battleline seen to be a common trend with the 3rd tomes so far, so I would say its likely we get it as well!

6 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

Maybe I'm blind, but where are you seeing 5w per model? 

I wish they did more damage and had less life (to benefit their ASF rule), but I guess we have to wait for a full warscroll and points cost first. 

In the paragraph above the Thrumming with Life ability image they talk about it.

1 hour ago, Landohammer said:

Imagine charging with a squad of these guys and another unit. Activating both, then retreating these guys into woods before you opponent even activates. We will have a forest and a 5+ Rally to use if they get targeted by shooting. The synergy looks quite strong.

One thing I like about the Strike first is that it let us activate 2 units before we have to have to pick what we will teleport out of combat. It should help us apply asymmetrical pressure on some enemies while reducing the "which unit I save" decision making during games. With 5 wounds a model, 5+ rally and healing back to full, I wouldn't be surprised if they end being a low priority target for the teleport (depending on their innate save + if we keep any of our save increasing effects).

[KingGatorboy]

10 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

Maybe I'm blind, but where are you seeing 5w per model? 

I wish they did more damage and had less life (to benefit their ASF rule), but I guess we have to wait for a full warscroll and points cost first. 

It’s on the article. I’m fine with 5 wounds per model, they are like Vanguard Palladors

[Freejack02]

11 minutes ago, KingGatorboy said:

they are like Vanguard Palladors

Which unfortunately, have largely sat on shelves acquiring dust (in competitive). I'm going to be more optimistic on the internal balance and effect of these guys. 

[Landohammer]

3 hours ago, Freejack02 said:

Which unfortunately, have largely sat on shelves acquiring dust (in competitive). I'm going to be more optimistic on the internal balance and effect of these guys. 

Oddly enough I have actually fielded Vanguard Palladors as allies/coalition in Sylvaneth and Living city a few times. They are quite a good tool box unit. They are fast, they fight ok, shoot ok, are fairly resilient and have that teleport. They fit well in both armies.

I think they are actually an absolutely competent unit for their points. The issue is that Stormcast is full of a few over-performing units that overshadow them. Why would anyone bring Palladors if Stormdrakes, Fulminators, and Annihilators are available for the same price or cheaper. 

Anyway, my point is that its ok for Spiteriders to just be an okay unit. I don't need them to break the game. I want new units to fill roles that Sylvaneth lack. Gossamids did this perfectly. And from the previews the Spiteriders look to be on track as well. 👍

[Landohammer]

3 hours ago, Arzalyn said:

 

One thing I like about the Strike first is that it let us activate 2 units before we have to have to pick what we will teleport out of combat. It should help us apply asymmetrical pressure on some enemies while reducing the "which unit I save" decision making during games. With 5 wounds a model, 5+ rally and healing back to full, I wouldn't be surprised if they end being a low priority target for the teleport (depending on their innate save + if we keep any of our save increasing effects).

Yea I guess it comes down to their save. Units like this have wildly different saves. Ranging from 3+ all the way to 5+. This unit feels like a 4+ save unit tho. Their are very few instances of units with shields that are 5+. (like skeletons, skinks, and beastman I think)

But the teleport also enables them to have another chance at a charge, and another chance at ASF. So if you can charge/teleport/repeat then you could theoretically maintain ASF for every combat and never get hit.

Sylvaneth are looking to be extremely powerful in the hands of a good player. Imagine spiteriders doing hit and run every turn, while Gossamids shoot and flee and Durthu putting you at risk of ASL if you try to charge him. There will be armies who could find us tough to engage.

Man I am hyped for this book!