AoS 2 - Sylvaneth Discussion

[Mirage8112]

30 minutes ago, IRifter said:

Going by the example you posted and looking up how exactly it works and where it is written in the SCE book it should be palced above the specific artefact tableand tell you how and why you get additional artefacts. This is not the case with the leaked sylvaneth pictures. I dont think its hidden on another page or something like that. We pretty much got all the important stuff from allegiance abilities all the way to pitched battle profiles.

I didn’t say that I was certain we’d get an extra artifact. I just said it’s weird.

We have 4 tables of artifacts, which seems pretty damn excessive. And for the most part, they’re all really really good.  Taking any of the named wargroves takes up an artifact slot, which means you have to take a battalion to sqeeze in a second.

What we haven’t seen, is the page that tells us how many artifacts we can take, and how it works. The KO book isn’t set up like the SCE book, which means not all books are written with the same format. I know what bog standard is, but as I pointed point out above, there have been exceptions. We’ve seen roughly 30 pages of a 104 page book and I’m not saying I know what’s there. I’m saying I want to know what’s on that page to see if anything is missing from the bigger picture. Maybe GW just want there to be a massive amount fo ways we can kit out our heroes, but 3 tables would have been easily enough for that (especially when most of these items are pretty useful. 

There a lot of information to process here. It’s not a terrible idea to wait to the book is in hand before declaring that we know for certain how everything works.

  

Edited May 27, 2019 by Mirage8112

[Craze]

21 minutes ago, Aryann said:

Does anybody have a suggestion on good "similar to Gnarlwood" build with the new battletome leaks? I mean magic heavy build?  

 

From the first impression I got from the BT leaks, I do not think that Gnarlroot is unplayable. Between the Gnarlroot trait (6+ ward save), the healing CA and the Verdurous Harmony spell you get a really resilient list. Combine it with the LotC batallion for MWs, give your second TLA The Vesperal Gem and you have quite good chances in casting a couple of spells succesful per turn.

 

Just a first (very rough) shot at a possible list:

 

TLA - 300 - Nurtured by Magic, The Vesperal Gem, Verdurous Harmony

TLA -300 - Chalice of Nectar, Regrowth

Branchwraith - 80

-------------------------

Dryads x30 - 270

Dryads x20 - 200

T-Revs x5 - 80

Treelord - 200

Kurnoth Hunters x6 - 400

-------------------------

Lords of the Clan - 60

--------------------------

Glade Wyrm - 30

 

This would leave you at 1920 Points. It has - of course - not the amount of casts available to the Gnarlroot batallion right now, but it allows you to guarantee a revived Kurnoth Hunter, plus a very solid chance of casting your endless spell/healing one of your Behemoths. This is definetly not a super offensive list but I imagine, your staying power and tarpitting would be really real. Again: This is just something I threw together in 5 minutes, but I am under the impression that even for Ganrlroot very nice stuff is possible to do.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Craze

[IRifter]

20 minutes ago, Aryann said:

Does anybody have a suggestion on good "similar to Gnarlwood" build with the new battletome leaks? I mean magic heavy build? 

I doubt that some tables refer to "treelords" as they don't share same keywords. But maybe it states "table X is for TLA and SOD". 

I dont see any restrictions except the table that only wizards get to use. I dont have very much experience with the old sylvaneth lists. Im not feeling comfortable giving out any lists/ideas yet.

[Mirage8112]

2 minutes ago, Craze said:

From the first impression I got from the BT leaks, I do not think that Gnarlroot is unplayable. Between the Gnarlroot trait (6+ ward save), the healing CA and the Verdurous Harmony spell you get a really resilient list. Combine it with the LotC batallion for MWs, give your second TLA The Vesperal Gem and you have quite good chances in casting a couple of spells succesful per turn.

 

Just a first (very rough) shot at a possible list:

 

TLA - 300 - Nurtured by Magic, The Vesperal Gem, Verdurous Harmony

TLA -300 - Chalice of Nectar, Regrowth

Branchwraith - 80

-------------------------

Dryads x30 - 270

Dryads x20 - 200

T-Revs x5 - 80

Treelord - 200

Kurnoth Hunters x6 - 400

-------------------------

Lords of the Clan - 60

--------------------------

Glade Wyrm - 30

 

This would leave you at 1920 Points. It has - of course - not the amount of casts available to the Gnarlroot batallion right now, but it allows you to guarantee a revived Kurnoth Hunter, plus a very solid chance of casting your endless spell/healing one of your Behemoths. This is definetly not a super offensive list but I imagine, your staying power and tarpitting would be really real. Again: This is just something I threw together in 5 minutes, but I am under the impression that even for Ganrlroot very nice stuff is possible to do.

 That looks absolutely brutal. I would probably drop the second unit of 20 drayds (since the wraith will be able to pump them, out pretty easily) and bring in an arch rev, and possibly another caster.

Alternately you could drop the dryads, add a balewind vortex and a branchwytch with throne of vines for a easy to cast spites-bomb 

[Craze]

But you need Battleline Units.

After looking at that list again, I would be really pumped to play this. The amount of heal/revive/ward saves combined with playing three big trees which are quite resilient themselves looks really sweet.

Edited May 27, 2019 by Craze

[Aeryenn]

Thx for suggestions. I'm not fancy in buying another TLA though. Wonder if you see possibilities for Alarielle with magic heavy build since I already own her (plus, Drycha, TLA, TL, Durthu, Arch-Revenant).

I made a lot of effort with my Alarielle. She has to be on the battlefield. Every. Single. Game. 😉

Edited May 27, 2019 by Aryann

[Craze]

I think here comes into play that we do not have a final answer on that artifact question. If we have a standard artifact distribution (1 + 1 for each batallion) picking a batallion would be really important for Gnarlroot, to pick The Vesperal Gem for that guaranteed cast + D3 heal.

[IRifter]

5 minutes ago, Craze said:

I think here comes into play that we do not have a final answer on that artifact question. If we have a standard artifact distribution (1 + 1 for each batallion) picking a batallion would be really important for Gnarlroot, to pick The Vesperal Gem for that guaranteed cast + D3 heal.

As i mentioned before. We got every page from allegiance to pitched battle profiles. There is no mention of any sylvaneth specific bonus artefact rules in there. Everything else inside the tome is usually lore, painting tips and some faction specific battleplans. I'd say we DO have a final answer

[JackStreicher]

12 hours ago, Aezeal said:

BTW I see a market for printed bases (as awakened woods) that allow old trees to be place in them.

I‘ll get to it once I have the new forest‘s footprint =}

[tman3257]

37 minutes ago, Mirage8112 said:

I didn’t say that I was certain we’d get an extra artifact. I just said it’s weird.

We have 4 tables of artifacts, which seems pretty damn excessive. And for the most part, they’re all really really good.  Taking any of the named wargroves takes up an artifact slot, which means you have to take a battalion to sqeeze in a second.

What we haven’t seen, is the page that tells us how many artifacts we can take, and how it works. The KO book isn’t set up like the SCE book, which means not all books are written with the same format. I know what bog standard is, but as I pointed point out above, there have been exceptions. We’ve seen roughly 30 pages of a 104 page book and I’m not saying I know what’s there. I’m saying I want to know what’s on that page to see if anything is missing from the bigger picture. Maybe GW just want there to be a massive amount fo ways we can kit out our heroes, but 3 tables would have been easily enough for that (especially when most of these items are pretty useful. 

There a lot of information to process here. It’s not a terrible idea to wait to the book is in hand before declaring that we know for certain how everything works.

  

I have the book in its entirety, I was one of the lucky ones to buy it while it was available for the few hours that it was up on the iTunes store.  

You have all the information in the leaks, there is no special paragraph detailing exactly how to use the artifacts etc.  The rules for artifact usage are on page 15 of the core rules under "Artifacts of Power".  Strormcast, KO, etc have their own passages due to the unique nature in which they're allowed to use some of them.  

4 Tables isn't new at all. Look at the Idoneth Deepkin book, they also get 4 tables of 6 artifacts each.  Hell, skaven has 6 tables of 6 each even!

 

Point is, don't bother waiting till you have the book in hand if you've seen the leaks, it's all there. Every single page of rules content.  Don't hold your breath for more because there is none.

[Craze]

8 minutes ago, IRifter said:

We got every page from allegiance to pitched battle profiles. 

Where do you see this?

The only page references I see are for the Wargroves (starting p.72) and for one (presumably 2nd) page of artifacts (p.68). But I do not see where exactly the allegiance abilities start, as I do not see a page number on this. Could you please elaborate?

Perhaps to clarify: I also think we will have the standard distribution of artifacts, but was just curious why we have so many artifact tables.

[IRifter]

2 minutes ago, Craze said:

Where do you see this?

The only page references I see are for the Wargroves (starting p.72) and for one (presumably 2nd) page of artifacts (p.68). But I do not see where exactly the allegiance abilities start, as I do not see a page number on this. Could you please elaborate?

Perhaps to clarify: I also think we will have the standard distribution of artifacts, but was just curious why we have so many artifact tables.

Here is my thought process:

In my group we ordered the leaked pages according to other 2.0 tomes. If you take a look at any of these tomes the contents are structured like this:

-Lore

-Painting

-Allegiance abilities(including stormhosts/glades)

-Path to Glory

-War Scrolls(including battalions)

-Pitched Battle profiles

 

If you take a closer look you'll notice that each section of the time has a title written in a big font. Furthermore you can see that the pitched battle profile is on page 104 and the earliest page according to other 2.0 tomes with a visible page number is the page with verdant treasures (page 68) . Overall 31 different pages have been leaked. 68+31= 99. Following the above stated order somewheren inbetween are the path to Glory rules. These path to Glory rules are usually 3 pages long. So in total about 2 pages are missing which could very well be big artwork pages. This leaves very little room for additional rules pages.

 

In addition I'm 99% positive that any important pages have been fully leaked. Why would the leaked not include the pages about an awesome more than one artefact rule if he downloaded the whole PDF from the Apple store?

[IRifter]

48 minutes ago, Aryann said:

Thx for suggestions. I'm not fancy in buying another TLA though. Wonder if you see possibilities for Alarielle with magic heavy build since I already own her (plus, Drycha, TLA, TL, Durthu, Arch-Revenant).

I made a lot of effort with my Alarielle. She has to be on the battlefield. Every. Single. Game. 😉

Go ahead and base that beautiful piece of plastic!

[Aeryenn]

17 minutes ago, IRifter said:

Go ahead and base that beautiful piece of plastic!

I held back so long because I couldn't decide how do I want to base it. I gathered some old bark and burs from my garden to glue them to the bases. Need to move my ass. 

Vesperal Gem on Branchwraith means guaranteed 50 dryads by the 5th round if you can keep her alive. Nice. Edit. My bad. Only lore of D. 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Aryann

[vesco]

I think that battalions are useless. For example why paying 100 point for Household in order to negate retreat ?
Am i wrong if i understood that oakenbrow,gnarlroot, heartwood, ironbark,winterleaf,dreadwood,harvestboon are free by just declaring which glade will u use ?

Edited May 27, 2019 by vesco
gramma

[IRifter]

Just now, vesco said:

I think that battalions are useless. For example why paying 100 point for Household in order to negate retreat ?
Am i wrong if i understood that oakenbrow,gnarlroot, heartwood, ironbark,winterleaf,dreadwood,harvestboon are free by just declaring which glade will u use ?

Also there's a typo in alarielle's warscroll she dosen't have 'Sweeping Blows' 😁

Yes you get the glades for free. The trade-off is the given artefact and command trait. So you cannot choose freely.

 

Battalions aren't useless. Getting another cp and artefact is huge. Look at the outcast battalion. Add a vengeful skullroot to that and you got a nasty Battleschock test for the enemy (rerolling successful battleshocks) and if a model flees you ad 2d3 on top. That's actually pretty powerful. Especially considering all the new forbidden power spells that give -1 to bravery

[Craze]

It is especially good against CP hungry armies as they will need at least one CP per round for negating nasty battlsehock phases.

[vesco]

12 minutes ago, IRifter said:

Yes you get the glades for free. The trade-off is the given artefact and command trait. So you cannot choose freely.

 

Battalions aren't useless. Getting another cp and artefact is huge. Look at the outcast battalion. Add a vengeful skullroot to that and you got a nasty Battleschock test for the enemy (rerolling successful battleshocks) and if a model flees you ad 2d3 on top. That's actually pretty powerful. Especially considering all the new forbidden power spells that give -1 to bravery

Yes i guess i just read the downsite of battalions (i'm pessimistic human being)
Man can't wait to build my army around the alpha strike style, since we had a huge update on numbers of attacks, rerolls hitting and wounding, always played my army very very defensively. 
I really wanna try Dreadwood with spites, drycha, durthu, alarielle, arch revenant (hoping gw will make him available soon ) and kurnoth with scythes planning on make them run on battleshock phase

[Kaylethia]

My local group mostly plays 1000 points, so my current idea is 3x spite-rev, drycha, arch-rev, hunters and branchwraith with outcasts and dreadwood.

Put the fear of Alarielle back in the hearts of mushrooms!

[Heksagon]

So, I glued my bows using plastic glue and I found a way to transform them painlessy into ... spears, that can count for swords. Or scythes, probably.
So far, everything sticks to bluetack, but it will look much better after gluing and polishing.

[Aeryenn]

In the allegiance section regarding Glades there is a mention that you can create your own Glade. Is this just for narrative play or is there a table of CA, artefacts, skills we can choose from to create one? 

[Craze]

It is narrative only. For matched play you can only use the ones already listed.

[Austin]

I am pretty bummed that Tree-Revs didn't get some sort of buff.  Hopefully as I think about it, a way to use large numbers of them will become more apparent. 

[Fyrm]

So, here’s what I’m thinking for a 1k list so far. I’d love criticism and comments, be as harsh as you feel you need to! I may not be going for most competitive, but every drop of info helps! It is all in the Harvestboon Glade.

 

endless spells:

gladeworm

Spiteswarm hive

chronomatic cogs

 

heroes:

Spirit of Durthu [general, Seek New Fruits, the Silent Sicle]

Branchwytch [the Vesperal Gem, Regrowth]

branchwraith [Throne of Vines]

branchwraith [Verduous Harmony]

 

battline:

spite revenants 5

spite revenants 5

spite revenants 5

 

battalion:

outcasts

 

 

apollogies that was so sloppy. But I believe that gets the details across? Game plan is turn 0 drop woods in my deployment zone as a launch pad, turn 1 pray to Allerial that I get my cast trees off [unless faq says I can use the gem for them, but even if not that gel is great], deploy it so it is as close to my kill target as possible. Hope for the charge buffs, but those will be easier and if I don’t get them then I don’t get them. Jump Durthu through the woods, charge target, do some mean damage, then jump back into the woods with command trait. Probably throw 1 unit of spites with Durthu as screen, but all non screening spites go run for objectives.

 

Does all that sound reasonable, or am I banking too much on too little? 

Edited May 27, 2019 by Fyrm
Forgot cogs. Lol.

[Charlo]

52 minutes ago, Austin said:

I am pretty bummed that Tree-Revs didn't get some sort of buff.  Hopefully as I think about it, a way to use large numbers of them will become more apparent. 

I think because they're OK as it is. Decent profile, built in teleport and a reroll every phase ensures some reliable play, rend aswell.

Glass hammer but always a decent threat and a fair few ways to make that 9" charge easier now.