AoS 2 - Soulblight Discussion

[Sartxac]

Raptor_Jesues:

Maw Krusa increment his damage and points of life by one point every turn if kill any enemie model.

Frostlord isn't a specefic character, in the last games he could use one realm artefact in order to obtain +4 move and fly.

The main spell of Vordhrai only rules the 56% of the times (without considerate the possibility of dispell). He only shoot in the shooting phase while the fight phase occurs two times in one round. I think that many times Vhordrai will fights as you can see in the purple line.  And the comparisson is with the weakness big daemon of khorne whitout any improvement.

Both frostlord and mega woss are compared withouth all of their abbilities vs one vhordrai with alot of upgrades as the cp of a covern throne (if you want see his damage output in the melee phase you must substract 4 in every damage average of his row). Now, i only considerate Vhordrai as a good character for the existence of Dolorous Guard  (i reccomend read the explanation of Thamalys in the page 17). In which competitive list before to the points down you find the use of prince vhordrai? 

This is the damage outpout of Vhordrai without the Covern Throne CP, in a charge with his spell (whithout shoot):

Around the half damage outpout of similar smash monsters of similar cost.

If you shoots and fight in melee:

 

 

 

 

 

Edited July 14, 2020 by Sartxac

[Raptor_Jesues]

11 hours ago, Sartxac said:

Raptor_Jesues:

Maw Krusa increment his damage and points of life by one point every turn if kill any enemie model.

Frostlord isn't a specefic character, in the last games he could use one realm artefact in order to obtain +4 move and fly. realm artifacts are no longer avaiable in matched play as written in the new general handbook

The main spell of Vordhrai only rules the 56% of the times (without considerate the possibility of dispell). He only shoot in the shooting phase while the fight phase occurs two times in one round. I think that many times Vhordrai will fights as you can see in the purple line.  And the comparisson is with the weakness big daemon of khorne whitout any improvement. if you take him considering the investment you should also probably try to have him cast reliably so this may vary. I tend to use him in necromantic soulblight for exaple. Also even if you want to consider his shooting only one it still is 3 more wounds per turn on average

Both frostlord and mega woss are compared withouth all of their abbilities vs one vhordrai with alot of upgrades as the cp of a covern throne (if you want see his damage output in the melee phase you must substract 4 in every damage average of his row). Now, i only considerate Vhordrai as a good character for the existence of Dolorous Guard  (i reccomend read the explanation of Thamalys in the page 17). In which competitive list before to the points down you find the use of prince vhordrai? i never said vhordrai is competitive, i just stated that he is one of the hardes hitting heroes in the game and you are confirming it

This is the damage outpout of Vhordrai without the Covern Throne CP, in a charge with his spell (whithout shoot):

Around the half damage outpout of similar smash monsters of similar cost.
this math is wrong, vhordrai puts out roughly 16,88 wounds in melee with his spell on. You are not counting that the spell affects the dragon's attacks as well

If you shoots and fight in melee:

same as before

 

 

 

 

 

[Thamalys]

1 hour ago, Raptor_Jesues said:

You are not counting that the spell affects the dragon's attacks as well

That's very true. Sure, Quickblood casts on a 7, which is not a given. In Soulblight you can go Necromantic (+1 to cast) and ally a Corpse Cart (+1 to cast as well) to get it down to a casting value of 5...

[Sartxac]

Oh, sorry i undertood that only affect the caster (only Vhordrai not Sordemaire). Thank's for this important correction:

 

Edited July 15, 2020 by Sartxac

[Raptor_Jesues]

yeah, thats a good smash. Not even counting his shooting he can most likely erase a unit in one turn if they are not immune to battleshock or even a monster

[Ghoooouls]

Change of topic but I'm loving my blood knights lol.

 

Very early WIP, but so much cooler than my old chaos knight conversions.. highly recommend them.

Edited July 15, 2020 by Ghoooouls

[Raptor_Jesues]

1 hour ago, Ghoooouls said:

Change of topic but I'm loving my blood knights lol.

 

Very early WIP, but so much cooler than my old chaos knight conversions.. highly recommend them.

they look ****** amazing, gotta grab sum

[El Antiguo Guardián]

17 hours ago, Ghoooouls said:

Change of topic but I'm loving my blood knights lol.

 

Very early WIP, but so much cooler than my old chaos knight conversions.. highly recommend them.

 

Very cool work!

[Charlo]

So the points drop are a little bit mental, eh my bloody brothers and sisters?

This dumb list is now legal:

• VLoZD - Mistform
• Palanquin - Saccharine Goblet (maybe this on the VLoZD)
• Coven Throne
• Neferata
• 3x5 Blood Knights
• Bat Swarms
• Command Point

You could even drop the swarms to upgrade the Dragon to Vhordrai and take an endless spell.

Just run forward with quite possibly a buff for every occasion. With Vhrodrai's command ability, killing a hero to Proc "a Fine Vintage" is a very doable prospect!

[Raptor_Jesues]

13 hours ago, Charlo said:

So the points drop are a little bit mental, eh my bloody brothers and sisters?

This dumb list is now legal:

• VLoZD - Mistform
• Palanquin - Saccharine Goblet (maybe this on the VLoZD)
• Coven Throne
• Neferata
• 3x5 Blood Knights
• Bat Swarms
• Command Point

You could even drop the swarms to upgrade the Dragon to Vhordrai and take an endless spell.

Just run forward with quite possibly a buff for every occasion. With Vhrodrai's command ability, killing a hero to Proc "a Fine Vintage" is a very doable prospect!

what hath thou done bretheren, you knoweth that the palanquin is forbidden

[warhammernerd]

Been running this list and had fair bit of success with it, running it at this sats TTS tournie. 

NEW Soulblight v2.0 TTS

 

Allegiance: Soulblight

- Bloodline: Swift Death

Vampire Lord (140)

- General

- Mount: Nightmare

- Command Trait: Curse of the Revenant 

- Artefact: Sigil of the Sanguine Throne 

- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb

Mannfred Mortarch of Night (340)

- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Neferata Mortarch of Blood (340)

- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

10 x Blood Knights (360)

10 x Blood Knights (360)

5 x Blood Knights (180)

2 x Bat Swarms (80)

5 x Dire Wolves (70)

- Allies

5 x Dire Wolves (70)

- Allies

Extra Command Point (50)

 

Total: 1990 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 140 / 400

Wounds: 132

[El Antiguo Guardián]

On 7/30/2020 at 11:53 PM, warhammernerd said:

Been running this list and had fair bit of success with it, running it at this sats TTS tournie. 

NEW Soulblight v2.0 TTS

 

Allegiance: Soulblight

- Bloodline: Swift Death

Vampire Lord (140)

- General

- Mount: Nightmare

- Command Trait: Curse of the Revenant 

- Artefact: Sigil of the Sanguine Throne 

- Lore of the Vampires: Amaranthine Orb

Mannfred Mortarch of Night (340)

- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Neferata Mortarch of Blood (340)

- Lore of the Vampires: Amethystine Pinions

10 x Blood Knights (360)

10 x Blood Knights (360)

5 x Blood Knights (180)

2 x Bat Swarms (80)

5 x Dire Wolves (70)

- Allies

5 x Dire Wolves (70)

- Allies

Extra Command Point (50)

 

Total: 1990 / 2000

Extra Command Points: 1

Allies: 140 / 400

Wounds: 132

Report your games please!

[Ignatius "Nate" T]

Howdy all. Haven’t been part of the discussion much lately but I’ll be finally attending a very small ITC formatted one day event tomorrow and while I’ve had great success with my Legion of Blood running an almost identical list I’ve decided to give Soulblight another run to see how it goes. 
 

I’ll be running this: 

 

Allegiance: Soulblight
- Bloodline: Swift Death

Leaders
Prince Vhordrai (460)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Vampire Lord (140)
- General
- Mount: Nightmare
- Command Trait: Blood Fury  
- Artefact: Sigil of the Sanguine Throne  
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Battleline
10 x Blood Knights (360)
10 x Blood Knights (360)
5 x Blood Knights (180)

Units
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
- Allies

Battalions
Castellans of the Crimson Keep (150)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 280 / 400
Wounds: 134
 

I’ve actually never used the Castellans Battalion so I’m curious to see how useful it really is. I know I’m missing out on one of the relics for the battalion but seeing as how this is more practice for a Major anyways I don’t mind it not being 100% not optimized. The purple sun selection is there as an attempt to counter some of the meta armies, specifically with Fyreslayers Hearthguard in mind. 
 

I’lll report back with how things go. 
 

I also managed to find 3 more old empire fantasy knights lances while digging through my pile of stuff so I can convert another 5 blood knights with this find. Very excited about that. 

[Thamalys]

4 minutes ago, Ignatius "Nate" T said:

Howdy all. Haven’t been part of the discussion much lately but I’ll be finally attending a very small ITC formatted one day event tomorrow and while I’ve had great success with my Legion of Blood running an almost identical list I’ve decided to give Soulblight another run to see how it goes. 
 

I’ll be running this: 

 

Allegiance: Soulblight
- Bloodline: Swift Death

Leaders
Prince Vhordrai (460)
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference
Vampire Lord (140)
- General
- Mount: Nightmare
- Command Trait: Blood Fury  
- Artefact: Sigil of the Sanguine Throne  
- Lore of the Vampires: Vile Transference

Battleline
10 x Blood Knights (360)
10 x Blood Knights (360)
5 x Blood Knights (180)

Units
40 x Chainrasp Horde (280)
- Allies

Battalions
Castellans of the Crimson Keep (150)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Purple Sun of Shyish (50)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 280 / 400
Wounds: 134
 

I’ve actually never used the Castellans Battalion so I’m curious to see how useful it really is. I know I’m missing out on one of the relics for the battalion but seeing as how this is more practice for a Major anyways I don’t mind it not being 100% not optimized. The purple sun selection is there as an attempt to counter some of the meta armies, specifically with Fyreslayers Hearthguard in mind. 
 

I’lll report back with how things go. 
 

I also managed to find 3 more old empire fantasy knights lances while digging through my pile of stuff so I can convert another 5 blood knights with this find. Very excited about that. 

Best of luck with your upcoming tourney! I always stayed clear of that battalion (I really don’t think it’s worth it) but I’d be very happy to be proven wrong... let us know how it goes!

[Ignatius "Nate" T]

Okay so I finally have a second to post the results. The games were great - awesome to be able to play again even in a very small capacity. The below descriptions aren't going to be the best quality, and they probably will be hard to follow if you want to imagine the game, but I've added the most important parts I think. My thoughts I'll post at the bottom. I'll also say at the beginning here as a disclaimer, I may have done the battalion wrong. Baring any FAQ as worded it sounds like I have to either put the entire battalion into reserve, or deploy it. I can't do what I did every game and put only one unit in and deploy the rest. I won't be bringing it ever again so I'm not entirely concerned moving forward, though I acknowledge it may have given me an advantage in these games. I also didn't get great pictures, more just a smattering of things here and there when I remembered to. 

So played 3 games with the 2020 handbook. Game 1 was against a 3 keeper of secrets slaanesh list, kind of the meta keeper list with Be'Lakor. We played knife to the heart,which if you're not familiar is the one with one objective each and if you control both after the start of the 3rd battle round you win. I deploy everything on the board except my units of 5 blood knights for my battalion. I give him first turn, and he moves his keepers and be'lakor up. He kind of underestimates the range on my blood knights (12", fly, and autocharge 6") and I get one unit of 10 into Be'Lakor who is on one side, and another 10 into one keeper on the left side. The keeper i charged locused me, so he got to attack first with it, and then did slaanesh stuff to attack twice. Kills like 7 blood knights who do nothing back while my 10 man on the other side murders be'lakor. His turn he charges another keeper into the remaining 3 knights, and the last keeper into the 10 man. Again does slaanesh stuff so he gets to go before me and twice with everything. End result is I have two blood knights left in one unit. Roll for turn, I get it, I retreat with my last two alive knights on the board, move the dragon up, bring on my unit of 5 from the board edge and charge a 10 man unit of daemonettes on the objective with everything easily killing them and taking the objective. So I win with like no units left while he has almost everything still alive and a ton of depravity points.

Top Turn 3, you can see my few knights and dragon on the objective in the back:

Another angle:

Second game was against Hermdar Fyreslayers in Lords of the Lodge, with a unit of 15 tunneling Aurics (anti monster shooting ones). Played shifting objectives, and left the 5 man unit in the back from the battalion again. I give him first turn and he moves everything foward putting one berzerker block on the right objective, one behind the center and a unit of Vulkites on the center objective and the aurics tunnel up to shoot the dragon. He does 11 damage to it. My turn I charge the aurics and vulkites with the center blood knights and dragon killing all but 3 models, and moved the left knights up to take the left objective. Roll for turn, I get it. Either I take the turn, charge everything, and hope to kill a lot. OR give it away and get charged anyways. So I take it. Left knights charge the back berzerkers. Chain rasp charge the right berzerkers to tie them up for my center units to finish off the aurics. If you didn't know, Fyreslayers also have the ability to fight first and fight twice. So they do. My left blood knights lose 8 of the 10 and the chainrasp lose 34 of 40 before I get to fight. I kill the 3 models in the center from the previous turn, but the left blood knights kill like 1 berzerker (they have a 4+ DPR with 2 wounds each). His turn he finishes off the left blood knights and the chainrasps but that's it. Roll for turn and I get it. I bring on my 5 blood knights on the right side, charging into the berzerkers there, along with the dragon and 10 center blood knights. Again, gets to fight first and fight twice. He kills 7 blood knights and almost the dragon. I attack with everything and kill all but 4 berzerkers. His turn he kills all my units. I lose pretty badly. Fyreslayers are a tough match up.\

Deployment:

Top Turn 3:

Bottom Turn 3:

So of course game 3 I play almost an identical Fyreslayers list on the new battleplan forcing the hand. This guys 15 aurics are in 3 seperate units, and he has one of the 20 man berzerkers in the tunnel. Same game plan as before, everything but the 5 man blood knights on the table. I give him first turn. He moves up, and drops in his 20 man block right in front of me. I have almost no where to go. I reposition in my turn so he can't get at much of the meat of my army. The deployment zones are pretty small in this battleplan though. He wins priority, and gives it to me. I didn't deploy for a double turn, so I'm slightly further away than preferrable. But I am positioned in a way that if I don't charge he will get at me and I'll autolose. So I do what is just about all I can do, and charge stuff. I get everything but one of the 10 man units in. Again, Fyreslayers get to fight first and fight twice, so he kills all 40 chainrasps, does 12 of 14 wounds to the dragon, and kills 5 of the 10 blood knights before I get to go. I attack and do 0 damage from the dragon, and my 5 blood knights roll super hot and I do 46 damage into one of the berzerker blocks. He gets a 4+ DPR though, and makes 33/46 DPR saves. What should have killed the entire unit and then some kills 6 and a half berzerkers. He gets the double, and kills all the rest of the knights and dragon, then charges the last 5 knights in the back and the 10 man unit, both with charge rolls of 11. I am tabled top of turn 3.

Game 3 end of top turn 2:

-So the battalion... 15" is brutal. Get the unit in, and the reroll hits is fantastic (I misplayed this and thought it was only reroll 1's to hit game 1). But particularly in this list with only one hero that can take an artifact it is absolutely not worth 150 points. 

-Prince Vhordrai I had very high hopes for, but without quickblood he's not as scary as I had hoped. It may be that I just didn't get it off enough (I think once?) but generally I throw him into a big scary unit, so if I don't get it off then I won't all game as he's probably going to die anyways. 

-Blood knights are the reason I play this army, and I still love them. I've played Legion of Blood almost solely, and while the loss of an attack for fly and +2" move on paper seems kind of lackluster, I didn't feel it all that much. Obviously 25ish% more output on each model is amazing, but they do so much damage to things (that aren't Hermdar Hearthguard) with their base attacks I think the extra movement and fly is worth it. Fly was and always is amazing on Blood Knights. 

-The matchups were very tough, and I don't think this was enough of a look at them to be soured. Playing these enough times I think I can get the hang of when to attack and where down. I will not be discouraged. 

-The list is not going to move forward in the same way. I'm going to double down on knights, dropping the battalion, the dragon, and potentially some of the chainrasp if not all to try and make a 45-50 Blood Knight list. It's basically only knights. The dragon is just not worth it to me, not for the cost of 2 and a half units of blood knights. That's the logic here. Blood Knights are good enough unbuffed in my opinion that they don't need these big costly support pieces. Just take more knights. To that end, I am working on building up more of them, most likely in an entirely new custom kit bash than what I have here. 

Anyways, love the army. Love the Knights. 

[Btimmy]

HGB are the lesser known, far more oppressive mortek guard. Sorry you had to play against them twice like that. 

[Ignatius "Nate" T]

I knew what they could do, but it was just a matter of pretty much not having a choice. either I charge them and die on my turn but the few survivors get their D3 damage or he charges me and I die on their turn but only get 1 damage attacks. 

You couldn't see it because of my poor photo taking skills but both games the reason the chainrasps seemed to always be thrown away and die in a turn is because I tried to have them touch one side of the berzerker blocks and my knights charge the other end to minimize how much damage they could do. In the end there's only so much I can do against it. Fyreslayers are just not a good matchup for this army the way it is. 

[Thamalys]

2 hours ago, Btimmy said:

HGB are the lesser known, far more oppressive mortek guard. Sorry you had to play against them twice like that. 

Seconded - it is especially frustrating for Soulblight, because the only two things we can do is to move fast and deal what 2 years ago was considered to be a solid amount of damage. Today's Fyreslayers have not only a much stronger damage output, but crucially they so incredibly resiliant that our damage does nothing to them. Outmanouvering them with Soulblight is almost close to impossible, given that we are - let's face it - an elite army and everything we bring costs a ton of points, we can't simply use blood knights as roadblocks. 

In all fairness, competitive Fyreslayers lists (should we say, really, "list", singular... we all know the usual list) are responsible for some of the most boring games I have ever played. Far from judging the actual players, but seriously: the entire army looks exacly the same aside for a couple of lads on magmadroths, the competitive builds are exactly identical to each other, and you always get that oppressive feeling that there is nothing you can do. No thrill, no strategy - it's the dwarvish equivalent of 24 eels, you know exactly what's going to happen.

I sort of know how to deal with Fyreslayers in Legion of Blood (feed them direwolves until the game is over), but it's not fun. Which I think it's really a shame, because the lore is ok and I have played against "casual" lists that were actually fun to play against - just without the usual three blocks of berzerkers, which remains utterly, utterly horrendous for their points.

Potentially the toughest match up for Soulblight in my opinion, only topped by Overlords (NOTHING we can do against shooting, our battletome just came out in the days where shooting was simply not a thing).

[Honk]

20 hours ago, Ignatius "Nate" T said:

I get everything but one of the 10 man units in. Again, Fyreslayers get to fight first and fight twice,

I secretly I was glad, when they took that away from my Ghoulking on terrorgheist... not for myself, but for the sake of an interesting and fun game.

But there you go GDubs... fun and balancing is thrown out the window like Leopold von Drak in Vlads wedding night 🦇

[Thamalys]

14 hours ago, Honk said:

fun and balancing is thrown out the window like Leopold von Drak in Vlads wedding night 🦇

🤣 surely we can think of a t-shirt design for this one... it’d be money well spent!

[Ignatius "Nate" T]

21 hours ago, Honk said:

I secretly I was glad, when they took that away from my Ghoulking on terrorgheist... not for myself, but for the sake of an interesting and fun game.

But there you go GDubs... fun and balancing is thrown out the window like Leopold von Drak in Vlads wedding night 🦇

I think the FEC change is an indication that the rule can be done in such a way that both meets the original intent while also not being horrifically broken. FEC's rule is perfectly fine. There is a set up and  a reward that doesn't occur in the other players turn. Fyreslayers and even Slaanesh's have no set up required, and can be used even when it's not your turn. It's just a negative play experience bonanza. 

[Honk]

2 hours ago, Ignatius "Nate" T said:

It's just a negative play experience bonanza. 

And for me it is totally unclear, why such a „variety“ of rules exists. For FEC it is the general who can suicide rush into combat and habe ASF... for naked dwarves it’s just an ability 🤷🏿‍♀️

[Ignatius "Nate" T]

On 8/16/2020 at 6:08 PM, Honk said:

And for me it is totally unclear, why such a „variety“ of rules exists. For FEC it is the general who can suicide rush into combat and habe ASF... for naked dwarves it’s just an ability 🤷🏿‍♀️

I think if there is a standardization of the ability it would be easier to balance. You have multiple armies all having the same basic ability (ASF: FEC, Fyreslayers, Slaanesh, IDK), but they tried to make it different for each faction. So to change it you have to make 4 separate rule changes instead of just one. I think what compounds the issue is that 3/4 of those factions ALSO have the ability to go twice. So go first, then go again... first. Either of those on their own could be OK, but the abilities seem to like to be given together which is just crazy. 

 

Anyone else here extremely excited to see what this weekend has to offer from GW? I for whatever reason have absolutely convinced myself that it's going to be the long awaited reveal of an updated Soulblight / Vampire faction. 

[Uvatha]

New model for Necromantic bloodline Soulblight/Vampire ? 🤗

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/08/gw-rumor-engine-burning-man-skull.html

 

Edited August 25, 2020 by Uvatha
Adding BoLS link

[Raptor_Jesues]

On 8/25/2020 at 11:26 AM, Uvatha said:

New model for Necromantic bloodline Soulblight/Vampire ? 🤗

https://www.belloflostsouls.net/2020/08/gw-rumor-engine-burning-man-skull.html

 

holy nagash's duck, i hope so