AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Luke1705]

3 hours ago, ajax_xaja said:

So what role do you guys see the Black Coach filling in your lists? Not quite the beatstick model that I was looking for, but it's certainly tanky, and can probably run the board safely on its own. Should I be using it as a disruptor/flanker with Hexwraiths and deepstriking it?

Feels like with the ridiculous amount of speed that it has I can deepstrike out of charge reach, and get a turn 2 charge safely.

Tbh I just love the model. If it does anything on the table, that’s just a bonus ???

[Neck-Romantic]

I for one still don't quite care for the coach. 

It has phenominal rules/battalion, but I personally dont like the concept of a physical contraption in my army of poltergeists.

As for its use, yes I can see it anchoring a flank of hexes and taking out artillery/support as your mainline gets stuck in, and being a late-game monstrosity as its powered up, able to retreat + run + charge and reach incredible speed while still handing out MW's, self healing, and replenishing late-game survivors.

I wish the mourngul was more competetive and synonymous  with the coach. The coach is faster, has more wounds, more overall damage output, also selfheals, also replenishes units....and costs less points

Edited August 1, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[GeneralZero]

11 minutes ago, Neck-Romantic said:

I wish the mourngul was more competetive and synonymous  with the coach. The coach is faster, has more wounds, more overall damage output, also selfheals, also replenishes units....and costs less points

I'm so with you on this one....(or not)

You forget one point in the difference between the mourn and the coach: Mourngul is ForgeWorld, the black coach is (NEW) Games Workshop. The former, who cares? the later has to be push forward for big sales (for ROI on moulding).

I have both (well, to be build). The mourngul is one of my all time fav  but it is pale and tiny on the table where there is this huge new coach.

[Dracan]

So have been pondering an alpha strike ghost cavelry list with death riders.

The idea is to deploy the harrows so they can blink out to where whatever is set up in the underworld come onto the board for a massive alpha strike.

Got Reikenor and midnight tome mKoS running around magicing things and along with the coach trying to keep the hexies alive while they do their thing.

I was torn on what to do with last 190pts so took a GoS and an extra artefact but I'm thinking maybe adding a mounted vampire lord for some more healing and the +1 atack command.

Any comments and crits?

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
- Artefact: Dreadbolt Ring 
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
- Artefact: Balefire Blade 
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed(140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Midnight Tome 
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage

Battleline
10 x Hexwraiths (320)
10 x Hexwraiths (320)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)

Behemoths
Black Coach (280)

Battalions
Deathriders (130)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 98
 

Edited August 1, 2018 by Dracan

[GeneralZero]

I'm also a big fan of cavalry. And I thought about a similar list.

My conclusions where: 2*10 hex is too much to be efficient, 2 dreadblades maybe but If I need some points, I'll sacrifice one to get 100p, and last but not least, model count is a bit short. Maybe 5hex+dread to get some reapers...

[Garxia]

6 minutes ago, Dracan said:

So have been pondering an alpha strike ghost cavelry list with death riders.

The idea is to deploy the harrows so they can blink out to where whatever is set up in the underworld come onto the board for a massive alpha strike.

Got Reikenor and midnight tome mKoS running around magicing things and along with the coach trying to keep the hexies alive while they do their thing.

I was torn on what to do with last 190pts so took a GoS and an extra artefact but I'm thinking maybe adding a mounted vampire lord for some more healing and the +1 atack command.

Any comments and crits?

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
- Artefact: Dreadbolt Ring 
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
- Artefact: Balefire Blade 
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed(140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Midnight Tome 
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage

Battleline
10 x Hexwraiths (320)
10 x Hexwraiths (320)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)

Behemoths
Black Coach (280)

Battalions
Deathriders (130)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 98
 

List looks good, maybe a bit low on units. I'll split a 10 Hexwraith unit into 2 x 5.

Sadly, you can't buy an aditional artefact, so you can only have 2 on your list. I'll keep the Midnight Tome on the mKoS and maybe I'll get a Balewind Pendant for additional move or a Slither on one Dreadblade instead of the ring and the blade.

By the way, what are the opinions about Grimghast Reapers and specially Myrnmourn Banshees? I'm thinking on making a battalionless list with both units, but don't have experience, neither have seem them played.

Are they worth it? Can you share your experiences? I'm specially curious about the Banshees.

[Dracan]

Hmm was sure you could buy artifacts same as command points... not sure where i got that from lol. 

Problem with splitting the hexies are that only 2 units are allowed in the battalion and while i agree 10 is too many, i feel 5 are too few, i would run them in 7-8man units if i could.

Grimghasts  are very good but have a massive problem... bladegheists look cooler lol.

I absolutely love myrmourns they hit like a ghost truck especially with some +1 attack commands from vamp or KoS. Id play them as 12 man units. I keep coming back to that they might actually be better in Legions of Nagash as there if they die... coz lets face it, they are a glass cannon you can at least bring them back. In NH they can at least deploy via underworld and try that crucial 9" charge...

Edited August 1, 2018 by Dracan

[GeneralZero]

It was discussed in LoS thread or somewhere (I'm not sure where, but in this forum anyway): you can't revive the myrmourns in LoN....because they are NOT LoN, they are ALLIES.

[Dracan]

With that rationale you cant use any commands on or from allies? As the prerequisites is death faction and summonable, no?   

[dmorley21]

2 hours ago, Dracan said:

So have been pondering an alpha strike ghost cavelry list with death riders.

The idea is to deploy the harrows so they can blink out to where whatever is set up in the underworld come onto the board for a massive alpha strike.

Got Reikenor and midnight tome mKoS running around magicing things and along with the coach trying to keep the hexies alive while they do their thing.

I was torn on what to do with last 190pts so took a GoS and an extra artefact but I'm thinking maybe adding a mounted vampire lord for some more healing and the +1 atack command.

Any comments and crits?

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

Leaders
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
- Artefact: Dreadbolt Ring 
Dreadblade Harrow (100)
- Artefact: Balefire Blade 
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed(140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts 
- Artefact: Midnight Tome 
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Soul Cage

Battleline
10 x Hexwraiths (320)
10 x Hexwraiths (320)
6 x Spirit Hosts (240)

Behemoths
Black Coach (280)

Battalions
Deathriders (130)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 98
 

I've been contemplating a Deathriders build too.

I think it's a tough battalion to get right. The actual battalion seems to be designed to rampage a flank, but not to be mainline. As such, it needs to be done cost effectively so as to have a main line. 

Right now, you're main line is your 6 Spirit Hosts and Guardian of Souls. That doesn't seem enough to me.

I'd drop a Dreadblade Harrow, and one unit of Hexwraiths to 5. If the 10 Hexwraiths and Black Coach run a flank, you can hide the unit of 5 behind them and use them to charge characters or grab an objective.  

That would give you 260 pts to add something else to your mainline. The Chainrasps give you the most bang for your buck, but I don't care for them. If you take out another character (say your GoS) you can have 400 pts to add to your mainline. 

[TheWolfLord]

2 hours ago, Dracan said:

With that rationale you cant use any commands on or from allies? As the prerequisites is death faction and summonable, no?   

You can’t use Deathless Minions, Endless Legions and Invigorating Aura on allied Nighthaunt in a Legion of Nagash army.

[kozokus]

What is the hype around the coach? Other than the model.

It seems quite a bit less powerful that 20 reaper and getting d3 models back each turn is not that powerful.

[dmorley21]

4 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

It has phenominal rules/battalion, but I personally dont like the concept of a physical contraption in my army of poltergeists.

The lore says it's phantasmal and manifests and fades at will, sometimes simply to ignore terrain.

As for it's uses, the most obvious is what you mentioned: running a flank on it's own or, preferably, with a unit or two of Hexwraiths. 

It could also be used to support you main line or to deep strike, though I don't think either takes full advantage. 

[TheWolfLord]

14 minutes ago, kozokus said:

What is the hype around the coach? Other than the model.

It seems quite a bit less powerful that 20 reaper and getting d3 models back each turn is not that powerful.

You have 2-3 turns of bringing back Hexwraiths or Spirit Hosts and it’s nearly paid for its points in that alone.

Its also very fast, causes mortal wounds when it charges, can cause mortal wounds in your hero phase,  causes mortal wounds when it fights and can retreat and charge plus run and charge.

Its got a lot of little benefits that add up to a very good unit.

[Nevar]

2 hours ago, Dracan said:

Hmm was sure you could buy artifacts same as command points... not sure where i got that from lol. 

Problem with splitting the hexies are that only 2 units are allowed in the battalion and while i agree 10 is too many, i feel 5 are too few, i would run them in 7-8man units if i could.

Grimghasts  are very good but have a massive problem... bladegheists look cooler lol.

I absolutely love myrmourns they hit like a ghost truck especially with some +1 attack commands from vamp or KoS. Id play them as 12 man units. I keep coming back to that they might actually be better in Legions of Nagash as there if they die... coz lets face it, they are a glass cannon you can at least bring them back. In NH they can at least deploy via underworld and try that crucial 9" charge...

I think 10 is the right number because you want to assume casualties will be taken.

Also, I use a block of 15 riders, and usually somewhere between 10-13 of them make it into combat.  I rarely ever get all 15 to swing, but I also rarely ever see less than 10 get to make their attacks.  21 attacks with MWs on 6's is really good.

I wish I could find some Myrmourns to buy so I could try them out... I wonder if GW plans on making any more any time soon. 

[GeneralZero]

Speaking about hex, how do you use their ability to MW when they fly over an enemy unit? 

Second question: is this ability available when charging? (assuming that you can charge longer than the distance between them and their back)

[TheWolfLord]

27 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

Speaking about hex, how do you use their ability to MW when they fly over an enemy unit? 

Second question: is this ability available when charging? (assuming that you can charge longer than the distance between them and their back)

The ability to cause mortal wounds when moving over a unit is limited to the Movement phase so can’t work when charging.

[Luke1705]

3 hours ago, kozokus said:

What is the hype around the coach? Other than the model.

It seems quite a bit less powerful that 20 reaper and getting d3 models back each turn is not that powerful.

It's mostly the model, but comparing it to 20 reapers is a little unfair since those dudes are (imo) probably the best unit in the book, point for point.  So you could say the same thing about almost any other model in the night haunt range - "well yeah it's ok but reapers are totally better"

The coach also has a lot of subtle layered buffs.  Once it's fully powered up, its a utility unit that is both durable and killy, and while the d3 models might not be much, it stacks with other abilities, so night haunt can have a surprising amount of recursion if they want to, especially with something like an allied vampire lord or two.

Of course, the d3 models are a lot nicer when you are looking at hexwraiths or spirit hosts, since they each come back with full wounds. TBH I think the only reason why you're not seeing a hexwraith death star build coming out is because the 6 to hit is unmodifiable (so you can't lose it with -1 to hit, but you also can't gain more with +1 to hit).  I was literally building a list around that until I realized it didn't work.

[GeneralZero]

TBH, The reapers can't do everything and they need some other stuff to shine.

This is the same for the coach. You can't always compare point for point damage for damage. In an army, there are hitters, there are supports, there are leaders, there are medics, there are utilities etc... Fortunately, it is the same in the game.

[Neck-Romantic]

Does ayone think the Mourn might really be feasible if you hold him back for a turn or two then drop him in the middle to disrupt the main melee?

 

I own the model but just cant countenance using him compared to the coach

Edited August 1, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[GeneralZero]

2 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

I own the model but just cant countenance using him compared to the coach

Put it on the coach and drive the thing with the mourngul! 

[SleeperAgent]

4 hours ago, Neck-Romantic said:

Does ayone think the Mourn might really be feasible if you hold him back for a turn or two then drop him in the middle to disrupt the main melee?

 

I own the model but just cant countenance using him compared to the coach

I deep strike my Mourngul every game and he's a huge distraction. Which is exactly what I paid points for. He's a better wall than any amount of chainrasps. HE just sits there soaking up damage and handing out -1 taking 2-3 turns to get wiped.

[I_usually_just_lurk]

6 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

TBH, The reapers can't do everything and they need some other stuff to shine.

Maybe your mileage will vary, but I’ve found a unit of 10 Grimghast Reapers to be exceedingly effective in my 1K games, and I’ve been deepstriking them to attack flanks / take back objectives. No buff, just the ‘ghasts on their own. 

[Kirjava13]

I have a game against the dreaded Sylvaneth on Friday, 1000 points. I'm quite keen on using something different to what I used in our last game (which was basically Soul Wars + Grimghast Reapers + Glaivewraith Stalkers), so I've included Reikenor and gone hard on magic. Atm I'm looking at 900 points, not sure what to spend the last 100 points on- I quite fancy some Endless Spells, but I'm worried about only having two units. Any thoughts, both on beating Sylvaneth and army composition? At the end of the day it's only my fourth game of Age of Sigmar and I'm curious to try everything out...

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Midnight Tome
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Lifestealer
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Total: 900 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 58

[ianob]

22 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

I have a game against the dreaded Sylvaneth on Friday, 1000 points. I'm quite keen on using something different to what I used in our last game (which was basically Soul Wars + Grimghast Reapers + Glaivewraith Stalkers), so I've included Reikenor and gone hard on magic. Atm I'm looking at 900 points, not sure what to spend the last 100 points on- I quite fancy some Endless Spells, but I'm worried about only having two units. Any thoughts, both on beating Sylvaneth and army composition? At the end of the day it's only my fourth game of Age of Sigmar and I'm curious to try everything out...

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
Mortal Realm: Chamon

Leaders
Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (140)
- General
- Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Midnight Tome
Reikenor the Grimhailer (180)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Lifestealer
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (140)
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist

Battleline
20 x Chainrasp Horde (160)
20 x Grimghast Reapers (280)

Total: 900 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 58

Heroes do not win games, units win games. Especially at 1k where you haven’t hit critical mass of units on the board, heroes are how you lose.

Id suggest dropping to the minimum number of heroes you can run in whatever 1k ruleset you’re using. Reikenor alone is a good bet. Add Cogs, because it is 100% needed for Nighthaunt to charge from the underworld, and spend the rest on more models in your units, or more units. Preferably fighty ones, you have enough points invested into filler (Chainrasps) already.