AoS 2 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[bsharitt]

So the rumor is that Chainrasps are $40 for a box of 10, and the price seems confirmed from a couple of sources and while there's some disagreement , but there's some  does that affect anyone's future army construction? I wasn't going to go full maximum horde, but I was thinking of running two or three units of 20, but since I already have the spirit hosts and hexwraiths who are battleline, I might be keeping a more elite army. It's not a major issue and might be for the best since the command abilities that bring back models bring back whole models rather than just wounds worth of models and much more valuable on Hexwraiths and Spirit Hosts.  What it does kill for me though is any idea of going back to  a LoN army with chainrasps replacing all the zombies.

[Nevar]

26 minutes ago, bsharitt said:

So the rumor is that Chainrasps are $40 for a box of 10, and the price seems confirmed from a couple of sources and while there's some disagreement , but there's some  does that affect anyone's future army construction? I wasn't going to go full maximum horde, but I was thinking of running two or three units of 20, but since I already have the spirit hosts and hexwraiths who are battleline, I might be keeping a more elite army. It's not a major issue and might be for the best since the command abilities that bring back models bring back whole models rather than just wounds worth of models and much more valuable on Hexwraiths and Spirit Hosts.  What it does kill for me though is any idea of going back to  a LoN army with chainrasps replacing all the zombies.

That sounds extremely overcosted even for GW.  Maybe $40 for 20.  Although, Daughters of Khaine's witches are still $50 for 10 so...

[Neck-Romantic]

It's gotta be $40 for 20, or that'd be insane.

Also makes splitting the SoulWars box or the other derivative boxed sets even more worthwhile.

They are small base fodder troops, 4 dollars per would be nuts, 2 dollars per is actually still a bit pricy if you've seen how tiny they actually are; how little plastic is involved.

Edited July 25, 2018 by Neck-Romantic

[Freejack02]

53 minutes ago, Nevar said:

That sounds extremely overcosted even for GW.  Maybe $40 for 20.  Although, Daughters of Khaine's witches are still $50 for 10 so...

Bingo, the precedent has been set - they know that people who want to run NH horde will still buy them.

[TheWolfLord]

Witches aren’t push fit though. 

Im still hoping it’s 20 rather than 10 because our Reaper are larger models and customisable and only a few pounds more.

Again £25 for 10 makes them £10 for 4 which is the same cost as the Myrmourn Banshees and Stalkers. Both of them are far larger models with far more detail on the models and bases. Add to that the savings that should be included from buying a larger box of 10 compared to 4 and it would be ridiculous if they were priced £25 for 10.

I don’t think I’ve ever complained about GW pricing as to me most kits are reasonable, if this is £25 for 10 I will be making some complaints though and I think we all should. £25 for 20 is the correct price given their detail, size, etb status, availability in starter sets and when compared to other army choices. 

[Clewz]

What size grimghast units does everyone go for?  I was thinking of using 2 units of 10  but is that too small.

Would one larger unit be better?

[Ahn-ket]

1 minute ago, Clewz said:

What size grimghast units does everyone go for?  I was thinking of using 2 units of 10  but is that too small.

Would one larger unit be better?

I would go with at least 20 per unit

[GeneralZero]

I hope that the coach is not priced at what is rumored. Nice and big miniature, but very pricey.

[GeneralZero]

I just received my mourngul from forgeworld : such a tiny kit for the price. But, there is no instruction to build it????? at this price?????

[SleeperAgent]

1 hour ago, GeneralZero said:

I just received my mourngul from forgeworld : such a tiny kit for the price. But, there is no instruction to build it????? at this price?????

Yeah I was super disappointed about the quality of Forgeworld in general. Mourngul in particular. I wish GW would take over those models and do them right.

 

EDIT: Also what rumors of Black Coach? 

Edited July 25, 2018 by SleeperAgent

[dmorley21]

7 hours ago, bsharitt said:

So the rumor is that Chainrasps are $40 for a box of 10, and the price seems confirmed from a couple of sources and while there's some disagreement , but there's some  does that affect anyone's future army construction? I wasn't going to go full maximum horde, but I was thinking of running two or three units of 20, but since I already have the spirit hosts and hexwraiths who are battleline, I might be keeping a more elite army. It's not a major issue and might be for the best since the command abilities that bring back models bring back whole models rather than just wounds worth of models and much more valuable on Hexwraiths and Spirit Hosts.  What it does kill for me though is any idea of going back to  a LoN army with chainrasps replacing all the zombies.

That does seem insane. They're my least favorite battleline unit from a fluff perspective and at that price I definitely won't be including them. I'll have to figure out how best to supplement my 10 Hexwraiths. 

[GeneralZero]

1 hour ago, SleeperAgent said:

EDIT: Also what rumors of Black Coach? 

rumored at 115$

 

1 hour ago, SleeperAgent said:

Yeah I was super disappointed about the quality of Forgeworld in general. Mourngul in particular. I wish GW would take over those models and do them right.

I'll see the quality while I build it. But is there some guidance about this kit? some instructions? What about the resin, how is it different from plastic? (i know that I'll have to use super glue, not plastic glue)

[SleeperAgent]

8 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

rumored at 115$

 

I'll see the quality while I build it. But is there some guidance about this kit? some instructions? What about the resin, how is it different from plastic? (i know that I'll have to use super glue, not plastic glue)

$115 is a punch in the gut. 
I just guessed with Mourngul. Its not awful but it definitely coulda used one sheet of instructions. And yeah, glue took a lot longer on it and it couldnt use the citadel glue.

[Marucho]

Coach will definitely be $115.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Marucho

[Overread]

9 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

rumored at 115$

 

I'll see the quality while I build it. But is there some guidance about this kit? some instructions? What about the resin, how is it different from plastic? (i know that I'll have to use super glue, not plastic glue)

Resin is quite different to work with and some hate it and some love it:

1) First up resin can have bubbles within the casting. This is very rare in properly cast metal; almost unheard of in properly cast plastics, but does happen in resin. Even well cast production resin can have a bubble here or there. These require filling (greenstuff or proper use of liquid greenstuff) and can take a bit of time. The problem with them is that they can sometimes appear in a location that causes them to obliterate detail on the model. If it just a small segment you can often fix it with greenstuff; but if you're unlikely it can obliterate a whole chunk and suddenly you've got to order a replacement part. 

2) Resin is softer than metal or plastic, this makes it easy to scrape clean ( mould lines) but you've got to be a little more careful as its easier to snap or break parts if you don't work with it right. It can also have some thick sprue connection parts that have to be sawn off with one of those little jewellers saws. Again careful steady work and its not an issue. 

3) Resin comes out of the mould with a release agent on the mould that aids easy separation. As a result you have to give resin a bath when you get it. This is simply a bit of luke-warm water and a drop of washing up liquid. Then scrub with an old worn toothbrush. It's not a hard scrub, you're just cleaning off the residue (that you often can't see though you might just feel it being a little more slippery before scrubbing). 

If you don't clean it off then superglue and paint might not adhere correctly and, as a result, your model could prove a nightmare to work with. A clean up removes all these issues (note its often good policy to wash metals too). 

4) When assembling superglue works great and bonds fairly quick (resin is more textured/porous than metal) though scoring the join areas (just as for metal) is very important. You might also need to pin parts, again just like for metal, to help support some areas of the structure (the WORST model ever for this is probably the Tyranid Titan from Forgeworld which many people put a bit of scenic terrain under the middle of the body as otherwise its a LOT of resin held up by four very thin legs! Others have gone nuts putting and drilling long metal pins up the middle of the legs for support)

5) Resin can bend when under pressure and heat. This means sometimes you get parts which are bent or warped. Hot (not boiling) water or light use of a hair drier (again you're not trying to melt it just soften it). and then bending it should repair this. Note that its best to do it in small bends and rewarm between them rather than trying to do it all in one go. This is safer and reduces the chances for the resin to break (this is the opposite of working with something like metal where the fewer bends is safer). 

Just like bubbles, sometimes the twist/warp/bend is beyond repair. 

 

 

Forgeworld (and indeed most miniature companies) are very good at replacing damaged/broken parts that are beyond reasonable repair and are the result of manufacture defect. So if you get really bad bubbles or a serious warping take some photos to show the problem and email them. They will typically replace parts without issue and the photos not only help to prove your case, but also help them be more ware of repeat incidents to keep an eye out for them

 

 

Resin is about the best at holding very fine detail and allowing complex structures and shapes to be cast. Metal follows, then plastics. In general this means resin is often favoured for boutique lines; although there are resin plastic hybrids and other varied materials on the market now - Hawk Wargames uses a very tough resinplastic thingy that holds very fine detail; whilst GW plastics have closed the gap somewhat as well. Resin still rules, but it has its own tricks and trials to working with same as any other material. 

[Kirjava13]

Fantastic post, @Overread. For scoring a join, does that mean what I think it does- just making some lines in the join area so the glue has more surface area to bond to? Or is it something fancier?

[Overread]

6 minutes ago, Kirjava13 said:

Fantastic post, @Overread. For scoring a join, does that mean what I think it does- just making some lines in the join area so the glue has more surface area to bond to? Or is it something fancier?

Yes that's exactly it and it makes a HUGE difference. I found with metals before I scored joins I'd have to hold bits together for AGES, even small arms into sockets, before the glue would bite enough to hold itself whilst curing. With scored join areas it bonds far quicker, again even a small arm into socket benefits from a few lines criss crossed with a scalpel blade. The glue still takes time to fully cure and harden, but it makes the join areas seal up a lot quicker to a tacky hold that will keep itself together. 

There's also the old trick (mostly) of putting tiny tiny tiny (I mean really tiny) bit of greenstuff into the join area to help hold bits together. Greenstuff cures and sticks and firms very fast in superglue, so a super small bit can cure in a few seconds so when placed into the join area it can help seal the two parts together for a few moments. Note that the greenstuff itself will then be a weakpoint in the join, so you make it very small as its only there to help hold the parts together for the glue to form the primary bond. 

 

If it helps I wrote about working with resin and put some guide photos here

https://warminiatures.wordpress.com/2016/01/27/relthoza-vaxiss-ground-attack-leviathan-assembly-guide/

 

Edited July 26, 2018 by Overread

[GeneralZero]

@Overread thank a lot for those really helpfull insignts. I'll try my first today: the mourngul  (but I can't find building instruction...)

The washing process is good to know also...

[Overread]

@GeneralZero The model doesn't look too complicated to put together so long as you use the visual pictures on the website. Dry fit the parts together to see where they go and how they fit (dry fit is jsut holding bits together with your hands to see how the join area is - no glue or anything used).

Looking at the model and its pose you might consider pinning the hand to the carcass on the ground and the arm into the shoulder joint area. Check my link above for pinning (I show both regular and bone pinning). Also do a search as there are loads of other guides on things like pinning (and youtube videos too). 

[Neck-Romantic]

$115 for coach and $45 for 10 rasps is pretty nuts

[GeneralZero]

I suppose that it is $=USD : how does it translate in £ (the GW way)?

[Clewz]

If its a straight up conversion £34.21 but I think they may incorporate different costs etc when selling it abroad

[Keldaur]

22 hours ago, Nevar said:

That sounds extremely overcosted even for GW.  Maybe $40 for 20.  Although, Daughters of Khaine's witches are still $50 for 10 so...

But these are easy to build, witches are a multicomponente and multiunit. If it is confirmed that ten costs 40$ it would be horribly overpriced.

The black coach is normal, that thing uses the stardrake's base, and it's still much larger than the base itself.

Edited July 26, 2018 by Keldaur

[GeneralZero]

I did some search on GW around the world: USD115.   I found that the ironclad is a this price. Which means for GW:

115 USD

70 £

90€

[KoalaSnok]

13 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

I did some search on GW around the world: USD115.   I found that the ironclad is a this price. Which means for GW:

115 USD

70 £

90€

Wow.. If the coach turns out to be more expensive than Nagash himself, I just might go for a list with the big guy instead.. :s