AverageBoss Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 12 hours ago, Argonoch said: The silver tower errata on the warhammer website is dated July 2018, whilst the warscroll on the app is January 2019, so would that not mean the App would be the one that is used? The app is more of an army building tool than an accurate rules reference. FAQ and books override it. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barteh Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 (edited) I've been struggling to come up with a 1250 list for a tournament coming up. I was wondering what people thought about the following; LEADERS Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180) - General - Command Trait : Arcane Sacrifice - Artefact : Paradoxical Shield - Lore of Fate : Bolt of Tzeentch Tzaangor Shaman (180) - Lore of Change : Fold Reality UNITS 10 x Tzaangors (180) 10 x Tzaangors (180) 10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200) 6 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (280) ENDLESS SPELLS Balewind Vortex (40) Gameplan is fairly basic, sit back with the Gaunt summoner on balewind & pink horrors, sacrificing them each turn to build up points to summon blue horrors. Tzaangors can move up in a nice big blob if there's a reason to, or sit back for a counter-charge. It just feels like everything we can field is so squishy for how expensive it is. What do people think about 2x10 Tzaangors vs 1x20? I feel like you lose flexibility and some minor MW output from the banners in favor of potentially keeping the +1 attacks slightly longer, but I also think that Tzaangors are essentially meant to get the charge and destroy, not get stuck in prolonged combat. I dunno, can't seem to find something that just seems solid. Edited March 16, 2019 by Barteh Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MitGas Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 Yeah, we are squishy. There is no way to go toe to toe with an elite CC army such as Ironjawz without the help of tactics/magic. Chaos Warriors can tank but can't dish out enough damage (why are they so sucky now?). Horrors are useless outside of their spells but maybe my dice just hate me - I do find shooting to be highly overrated though; 4+/4+ looks pretty good but if the enemy has 2 wounds and a good save, it suddenly doesn't work well. Enlightened do work though. I can't say wether Tzaangors would work, as I haven't used them but with Shield of Fate they might be good ( then again, I use SoF on my Enlightened). So yeah, spam MW, go in with Enlightened and make sure you split their army/hinder them from having multiple units kill your Enlightened in one turn. Prismatic Palisade, shackles, horrors as roadblocks, you name it. Gaunt Summoneron on BWV can reduce huge units by almost half if you're lucky with the rolls. I've used a Vortex Beast with some measure of success - instantly draws attention to itself, so it's a great distraction but can only be used as such. I feel like Tzeentch is an army that actually needs a devious plan, especially if you just play "who stands last wins". But to illustrate my point further: A single Megaboss on foot killed 20 blue horrors and 20 brimstone horrors (10 bases) by himself and got a single wound from them. The roadblock worked, so he never got to kill something important but shooting and CC from horrors is kinda useless. Nerf the spells and Enlightened and Tzeentch is done. Just my observations so far - and as much as I love Flamers, I never had success with them either. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pandamina Posted March 16, 2019 Share Posted March 16, 2019 6 hours ago, Barteh said: I've been struggling to come up with a 1250 list for a tournament coming up. I was wondering what people thought about the following; You should consider playing beasts of chaos, esp if it's 4x4 table. Something like Spoiler Allegiance: Beasts Of Chaos- Greatfray: GavespawnLeadersTzaangor Shaman (180)- General- Trait: Unravelling Aura - Lore of the Twisted Wilds: ViletideGreat Bray Shaman (100)- Lore of the Twisted Wilds: Tendrils of AtrophyBeastlord (90)- Artefact: Mutating Gnarlblade Battleline20 x Tzaangors of Beasts of Chaos (360)10 x Ungors (60)- Mauls & Half-ShieldsUnits9 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (420)Endless SpellsGeminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)Total: 1250 / 1250Extra Command Points: 0Allies: 0 / 200Wounds: 102 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Terninho83 Posted March 17, 2019 Share Posted March 17, 2019 i played the followed list on this weekend and vender up with 1 minor lost, flood trees from sylvaneth, and 2 major wins, daemon khorne and e and enzo stormcast. Gaunt summoner arcane sacrifice bolt of tzeentch Gryph-father charm Tzaangor Shaman fold reality The blue scribes Tzeenrch's Firestone 10x pink horrors unchecked mutation 10x Kairic acolyte 6x Tzaangor enlightened 1x Tzeentch chaos spawn balewind vortex Aethervoid Pendulumn Chronomantic Cogs The Idea of this army is make the gaunt summoner a 4 spell Caster with 33" range rerroling failed cast. The Shaman babysitter of enlightened The blue scribes make my cast unpredictible and a Source of rerroling i will use pink as a Farmland with destiny dice. Chaos spawn will be a body guard for gaunt summoner and the blue scribes 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyP Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 I haven't had too many good experiences playing tzeentch, and after review list ideas I came to the conclusion that it's me not the list....somewhat depressing. I have tried to learn how to play (experiencea painter but inexperienced player) and took me a while to get down the basics of game play. Now that I've gotten that down in trying to learn strategy, but not going well. Did/does anyone else have a hard time learning stategy? I'm trying to keep a positive attitude...as it's just a game.....but losing as much as I have is not making for a fun experience Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
mmimzie Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 49 minutes ago, MattyP said: I haven't had too many good experiences playing tzeentch, and after review list ideas I came to the conclusion that it's me not the list....somewhat depressing. I have tried to learn how to play (experiencea painter but inexperienced player) and took me a while to get down the basics of game play. Now that I've gotten that down in trying to learn strategy, but not going well. Did/does anyone else have a hard time learning stategy? I'm trying to keep a positive attitude...as it's just a game.....but losing as much as I have is not making for a fun experience One thing about tzneetch is I'd say it is one of the most difficult armies to play. You have to know when and where it is worth your effort to attack and really be on point with positioning. For learning how to play well i recommend that you ask your friends to do kind of a double solitary game or to really communicate every move with one another. For example of you see your opponent doing something dumb that looks game losing you guys talk about that move before you go on. During you spell phase you can ask your opponent what unit he thinks is most important at the moment, before you start flinging spells, etc. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyP Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 2 hours ago, mmimzie said: One thing about tzneetch is I'd say it is one of the most difficult armies to play. You have to know when and where it is worth your effort to attack and really be on point with positioning. For learning how to play well i recommend that you ask your friends to do kind of a double solitary game or to really communicate every move with one another. For example of you see your opponent doing something dumb that looks game losing you guys talk about that move before you go on. During you spell phase you can ask your opponent what unit he thinks is most important at the moment, before you start flinging spells, etc. That's a good idea. I'll have to try that Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Binks Posted March 18, 2019 Share Posted March 18, 2019 What do you think about this list? Going to a 1500pts tournament, I'm the only Tzeentchian and wanna do well against all the Sigmarites and Khornates that plague my local meta😈 LEADERS Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180) - General - Command Trait : Magical Supremacy- Artefact : Wellspring of Arcane Might - Lore of Fate : Bolt of Tzeentch Tzaangor Shaman (180) - Lore of Change : Glimpse the future Ogroid Thaumaturge (180) - Lore of Change: Infusion Arcanum UNITS 5 x Chaos Warriors (90) 5 x Chaos Warriors (90) 20 x Tzaangors (360) 3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200) 3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200) My plan with this list is to abuse the magic phase with my heroes, use Skyfires to snipe enemy heroes while chaos warriors grab objetives or hold the line. Tzaangors can be quite threatening, can cover a lot of ground and with adecuate support they are great. I plan to summon horrors as needed. Thanks in advance :) Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AverageBoss Posted March 19, 2019 Share Posted March 19, 2019 9 hours ago, Binks said: What do you think about this list? Going to a 1500pts tournament, I'm the only Tzeentchian and wanna do well against all the Sigmarites and Khornates that plague my local meta😈 LEADERS Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180) - General - Command Trait : Magical Supremacy- Artefact : Wellspring of Arcane Might - Lore of Fate : Bolt of Tzeentch Tzaangor Shaman (180) - Lore of Change : Glimpse the future Ogroid Thaumaturge (180) - Lore of Change: Infusion Arcanum UNITS 5 x Chaos Warriors (90) 5 x Chaos Warriors (90) 20 x Tzaangors (360) 3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200) 3 x Tzaangor Skyfires (200) My plan with this list is to abuse the magic phase with my heroes, use Skyfires to snipe enemy heroes while chaos warriors grab objetives or hold the line. Tzaangors can be quite threatening, can cover a lot of ground and with adecuate support they are great. I plan to summon horrors as needed. Thanks in advance I would give the Shaman Fold Reality and merge the Skyfires into a single unit. I would also consider swapping the Warriors for Acolytes for more bodies, and a little bit of ranged threat. Then use you 40 leftover points for an endless spell, most likely Pendulum or Balewind. 1 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyP Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 (edited) It has been said that the curseling can't use vessel of chaos ability to unbind/ cast endless spells in matched play, even though it is in the FAQ that he can.....I'm confused on this Edited March 21, 2019 by MattyP Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origin Posted March 21, 2019 Share Posted March 21, 2019 3 hours ago, MattyP said: It has been said that the curseling can't use vessel of chaos ability to unbind/ cast endless spells in matched play, even though it is in the FAQ that he can.....I'm confused on this The Designer Commentaries for the Malign Portent book states that you cannot cast endless spells you have not paid points for. So in open play or narrative play you can use Vessel of Chaos all you like. Not so much in matched play. However on the off chance that both you and you opponent have bought the same endless spell... Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Connelj2 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 7 hours ago, MattyP said: It has been said that the curseling can't use vessel of chaos ability to unbind/ cast endless spells in matched play, even though it is in the FAQ that he can.....I'm confused on this So it is ok to case a dispelled endless spell if you have paid for it. Example if you and your opponent have paid for cogs. He attemds to cast it and you dispell. That means you can now cast it since you paid the points. How ever if he right after lasts maelstrom and you havnt paid for the points you can dispell it but then you.can't cast it. Its the main thing that makes endless spell tzeentch lists with cursling so fun Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TactfulSaturn Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Hi guys I'm looking for some clarification of how realm spells work in matched play games. Can I give my wizards a spell from any realm in any matched play event? Or can you only access realm spells if the matched play came is specifically set in that realm? I see people writing lists with artefacts and spells from a specific realm but I am not sure if this is just a free choice thing or whether it is dictated by the match play game? Thanks in advance! Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyP Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 13 hours ago, Origin said: The Designer Commentaries for the Malign Portent book states that you cannot cast endless spells you have not paid points for. So in open play or narrative play you can use Vessel of Chaos all you like. Not so much in matched play. However on the off chance that both you and you opponent have bought the same endless spell... So I cannot find this . I have searched FAQ and the malign portent FAQ states that an ability the allows a model to learn or know a spell can't be used for endless spells unless points are paid......but the vessel of chaos ability does not allow the curseling to kniw/learn the spell (that is clean magic). So , if he doesn't learn or know the spell via vessel of chaos then he can unbind them cast it Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Origin Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 @MattyP That's a fair interpretation, probably worth an email to GW. I can see your point, he never really knows the spell but I feel the intent is not in our favour. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Barnie25 Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 A few months back I sold off my Stormscasts and jumped back into chaos (40k). As a result I now have quite a few models which I can use for AoS and 40k. Can I make an army from the following models: Lord of Change Herald of Tzeentch 2 Daemon Princes The Changeling 40 Pink horrors 30 Gors (counts as tzaangors in 40k but since they are actual brayherds, id probably have to run them as such in AoS. What should I be looking to add to build an army? I thought something along the lines of: Lord of Change- 380 The changeling - 200 Daemon prince - 160 3x 10 pink horrors 600 30 Gor allies 210 This is 1550 points. What should I add for the final 450? It doesnt have to be extremely competitive. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Paniere Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 I'm fairly new to the game, still have to play the 1st match, but lurking these pages and reading the rules makes me pretty sure that you will need 30+ blue horrors and brimstones for summining purposes. Then I'm confident that 9 enlightened on disks will be suggested by many others Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Captain James Hook Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 Hello everyone! I'm trying to come up with a good tzeentch list but something different from what we nowdays. I've got 2 options to choose, it's basically the same list with a different flavor. This list is based on models i own and i've converted. It's not the classic enlightened spam, but i think it shoul work well on the battlefield. So which one do you prefer? first list: Lord of change, general, arch sorcerer, bolt of tzeentch, arcane transformation 380 Sayl the faithless and nightmaw 200 15 chaos chosen of tzeentch 420 Phantasmagoria of fate battallion 200 Doombull with ghyrstrike 120 Doombull with blade of hammerhal ghyra 120 10 ungors 60 10 ungors 60 20 tzaangors, with 8 savage great blade, 3 mutants, 2 shield and the rest with pair of savage blades.360 Aethervoid pendulum 40 tot 1960 Second one: Lord of change, bolt of tzeentch 380 sayl the faithless and nightmaw 200 gaunt summoner, general, arcane sacrifice, arcane transformation 180 10 chaos chosens of tzeentch/ 15 chaos warriors with great weapon 280/270 phantasmagoria of fate battallion 200 doombull with ghyrstrike 120 doombull with blade of hammerhal ghyra 120 10 ungors 60 10 ungors 60 20 tzaangors, with 8 savage great blade, 3 mutants, 2 shield and the rest with pair of savage blades.360 Aethervoid pendulum 40 tot. 2000/1990 Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RaritanAnon Posted March 22, 2019 Share Posted March 22, 2019 I have a load of Daemons and Mortals but I absolutely hate the Tzaangors, both model wise and game-wise. Are they viable at all, that is, a Tzeentch list without Tzaangors? Every game I've played I tend to eke out a very close win or I get curbstomped. To that end I've thought about running masses of Kairics in a Witchfyre Coven. See what 160 fireballs can do. This is what I came up with. Allegiance: Tzeentch Lord of Change (380) Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180) Ogroid Thaumaturge (180) Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160) - Runestaff 40 x Kairic Acolytes (300) 40 x Kairic Acolytes (300) 10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200) 3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (140) Witchfyre Coven (120) Balewind Vortex (40) Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 134 Sorcerer lord and Ogroid to babysit the Kairics. Pinks to die quickly. Enlightened to go character hunting and Gaunt/lord of change for heavy hitting spells. 80 shots in the hero phase and 80 in the shooting phase. That's gnarly. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
newsun Posted March 23, 2019 Share Posted March 23, 2019 On 3/22/2019 at 10:21 AM, RaritanAnon said: I have a load of Daemons and Mortals but I absolutely hate the Tzaangors, both model wise and game-wise. Are they viable at all, that is, a Tzeentch list without Tzaangors? Every game I've played I tend to eke out a very close win or I get curbstomped. To that end I've thought about running masses of Kairics in a Witchfyre Coven. See what 160 fireballs can do. This is what I came up with. Allegiance: Tzeentch Lord of Change (380) Gaunt Summoner and Chaos Familiars (180) Ogroid Thaumaturge (180) Chaos Sorcerer Lord (160) - Runestaff 40 x Kairic Acolytes (300) 40 x Kairic Acolytes (300) 10 x Pink Horrors of Tzeentch (200) 3 x Tzaangor Enlightened on Disc (140) Witchfyre Coven (120) Balewind Vortex (40) Total: 2000 / 2000 Extra Command Points: 1 Allies: 0 / 400 Wounds: 134 Sorcerer lord and Ogroid to babysit the Kairics. Pinks to die quickly. Enlightened to go character hunting and Gaunt/lord of change for heavy hitting spells. 80 shots in the hero phase and 80 in the shooting phase. That's gnarly. I'd probably drop the sorc Lord or ogroid to make enlightened 6 strong. Then get pendulum or swords Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheadTheOgorSlayer Posted March 25, 2019 Share Posted March 25, 2019 Bought 40 marauders to rip off a pestilens tactic, what do people think of this: 40 man unit with shields and the works string out to block the initial charges, I run horrors so nothin is hurting from lack of combat, my list be something like: gaunt summoner magister 10 horrors 10 horrors 40 marauders shackles and spell portal 1000/1000 the marauders means I can wrap the whole army, The average melee army usual,y gets to me turn 2, with shackles not getting dispelled that’s turn 3, with marauders to take the initial charge that’s actually turn 4 on a perfect day, this is all in theory tho and i only thought of it when’s i saw several pestilens players using the same tactic over and over (pestilens likes to counter charge, so the initial unit blocks all possible charges and then the units behind fee fully buffed and wreck face) it’s the same tactic just using spells and shooting instead of counter charging. Enlightened 2 inches behind the maruader unit is also an interesting tactic I may try as it almost guarantees they get fully buffed before wrecking face, and they can simply fly over the marauders to grab objectives! The speed of marauders is also not a problem with cp or vortemis as they move 13 inches when running with banner (and I want them to soak charges so I won’t charge with them normally unless a good opportunity arrives) the 200 points for a guaranteed extra turn of breathing room seems fantastic in my head spell portal plus trait that increases range means I’m always able to reach out and touch stuff so ranged armies should be fine to deal with as well, especially since pink horrors split into more horrors so my fire base is hard to remove (albeit lacking in damage without constant spells going off) i do have to be wary of one thing tho, with a large maruader unit lined up a lucky charge might actually mean the opponent arrives faster to my guys (although again worst case scenario is they reach my lines turn 2 so not a bad tradeoff really since that’s usually when they get there) also flying guys will not care... will prolly be priority for my spells Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyP Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 Still waiting for the tzeentch update....endless spells and whatnot .....however looks like it's slaanesh release instead. Mixed feelings Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheadTheOgorSlayer Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 3 minutes ago, MattyP said: Still waiting for the tzeentch update....endless spells and whatnot .....however looks like it's slaanesh release instead. Mixed feelings Slaanesh deserved it ☺️ I’m just glad all 4 chaos gods are getting goodies since AOS came out. We are also blessed with the endless spells needed to work well in this day and age. Battleline psykers and horror summoning is also very strong. And with marks we can fill in almost any blank! We aren’t op like we used too but I’d like to think this is the best spot for an army, not overpowered but still able to feel powerful doing what we do best. I do think arcanites should have access to more buffs and not rely on casters as much (although in large games the cabal is amazing sometimes, I love being able to abuse our look out sir spell on any wizard while still casting base spells and getting recycled fate Dice!) i haven’t matched with death tho so I’m unsure how are casting measures up to the other best casting faction Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MattyP Posted March 27, 2019 Share Posted March 27, 2019 2 hours ago, TheadTheOgorSlayer said: Slaanesh deserved it ☺️ I’m just glad all 4 chaos gods are getting goodies since AOS came out. We are also blessed with the endless spells needed to work well in this day and age. Battleline psykers and horror summoning is also very strong. And with marks we can fill in almost any blank! We aren’t op like we used too but I’d like to think this is the best spot for an army, not overpowered but still able to feel powerful doing what we do best. I do think arcanites should have access to more buffs and not rely on casters as much (although in large games the cabal is amazing sometimes, I love being able to abuse our look out sir spell on any wizard while still casting base spells and getting recycled fate Dice!) i haven’t matched with death tho so I’m unsure how are casting measures up to the other best casting faction I'm just wanting to buy new models and tzeentch themed endless spells. And I've played against skaven after their update.....they are nasty and I didn't fair well. ....could have been me. I'm not upset that slaanesh is getting stuff, just want more tzeentch stuff to burn money on 😁. Quote Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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