AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[j0lt]

So I've picked up some Khorne cheap from a friend, mainly because I was gonna use the Reavers and Warriors for 40k... however as part of a plan to have all 4 grand alliances in my collection, I've decided to go ahead and order the battletome.

1 x Mighty Lord of Khorne
1 x Bloodsecrator
2 x Bloodstoker
2 x Khorgoroth
10 x Blood Warriors
40 x Bloodreavers 

My only catch is that I'd prefer the mortal Khorne, over the other stuff if possible, could anyone suggest a nice 1k list for me (or if there is a set of must haves for the BoK army) in the interim till my order arrives.

[Killax]

On 4/13/2019 at 8:20 AM, MOMUS said:

No. The reason is the designer simply didn't know the rules.

This is the same designer who (at one of the bigger tournaments last year) didn't know the effects of the bloodsecrator banner and incorrectly ruled against the brazen rune range - even though it was in the FAQ at the time.

Im glad it's been corrected, now we don't have to chat about the ugliest model in the army.

If thats actually the case I would say the designer in function shouldn't really create Warscrolls anymore. Let alone have a hand in creating Battletomes.
AoS is a very simple game with very straight up core rules. As @Xasz has mentioned it is allready quite clear that the creator didn't gave two cents about it, but then to alter it makes it all the more strange.

I don't think it's a good evolution of the game if only what some precieve to be cool models have actual decent Warscrolls. In addition if they where able to copy paste "Add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly KHORNE units " twice I think the designer might need a new keyboard to allow him to copy pase it another time...

Long story short is that to me the creation of this book feels rubbish, because it's the third time they have done it and overall the army just got to be slower and worse in melee. The ranged support added another dimension to the army, that is gone now, for anything other as Slaughterpriests and Khorne Judgements.

2 hours ago, MrCharisma said:

Some of you may be interested in my latest Faction Focus: Blades of Khorne, hot off the press.

I recently caught up with some of Australia's top Blades of Khorne players inc. Matt Campbell who won CanCon 2019 (220 player event) with Khorne and Pat Neven who played Khorne at the Australian Masters 2018... we talk through the new book, army building, advanced tactics, and more.

 

Cheers! Thanks for sharing! Will certainly give it a good watch.

[Sleboda]

On 4/2/2019 at 3:29 PM, Sleboda said:

"After a model from this battalion has fight in the combat phase for the first time..."

That is a situation that will only ever occur once in the game. You can't have two 'first times.',

I watched it. 

 

Meh.

 

Not a lot to help a new player, plus they have advice as pre-FAQ, thus making cannons better 

 

Good folks, genuine enthusiasm, dedicated players ...

 

Bad production values, inaccurate advice, minimal useful insight. More of a review/overview than an actual S&T bit.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Sleboda

[Warbossironteef]

I got some games in this weekend and I felt pretty helpless against shooting armies. 

Some of hardest hitting units are so slow, our battalions offer no movement shenanigans and BTs are so squishy. 

Does anyone have any advice? At this point it almost seems better to have a 6xblood crusher unit than a WoK BT

[Killax]

9 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

I got some games in this weekend and I felt pretty helpless against shooting armies. 

Some of hardest hitting units are so slow, our battalions offer no movement shenanigans and BTs are so squishy. 

Does anyone have any advice? At this point it almost seems better to have a 6xblood crusher unit than a WoK BT

Old advice: bring some ranged support with Wrathmongers and Skullcannons

New advice: we don't have any good interaction. The best thing we can do is likely 2x 10 Blood Warriors to scoot up with Goretide Comman Ability and hope your key stuff sort of survives and your opponent can't screen these Blood Warriors.

[ChaosUndivided]

So i had a fun Khorne vs Khorne game last night. I was playing a 100% mortal army and my opponent was playing a mostly deamons army.

He had 2 Thirsters IR, 2 Priest, 2 Secrators, 3x30 Letters and Wrath Axe with Bloodlords host.

I had a Chaos Lord on Manticore, 2 Priest, Deathbringer with spear, Secrator, Stoker, Warshrine, 2x10 Warriors, 1x10 Reavers, 2x5 Reapers, Wrath Axe, Slaughterborn battalion, with Goretide host.

I gave the CLoM the command trait which i completely forgot about all game and the goretide artifact, i gave the Secrator the Banner of Wrath. One of his BT had the halo artifact.

I get to choose who goes first and i let him go so i can let him get closer to my altar. He can't make any charges and its my turn next. With the Goretide run + charge i send both units of Warriors as deep into his troops as i can. And the Manticore has no problem flying over stuff and closing in on a Secrator. 1 unit of Warriors has the other Secrator pinned but they also drew in a BT. The other unit of Warriors crashed into his other BT. I roll pretty crappy and he rolls amazing so by end of first turn all my Warriors are pretty much dead and only 1 of his Secrators suffers 2 wounds from Manticore and 1 BT has a scratch, while the other BT is half dead mostly thanks to a 5wound Blood Boil. 

So we roll off for turn 2 and i win. Obviously i opt to double turn him. By now the Warshrine has pinned a 30x Letter unit down. I whip a unit of Reapers and send them in to help the Warshrine along with the Death Bringer. The Reapers rerolling all failed hits + failed wound didnt miss a single attack and decimated half the Letters. On the other flank i send another unit of Reapers in to take on another 30x Letters. This time Secrator is nearby so they got 25 attacks and only miss 2 so that unit of Letters got wrecked. Meanwhile i get Wrath Axe off thanks to altar and i send it flying into his half dead BT and a nearby Priest plus the Secrator my CLoM is fighting nearly killing them all. So my Secrator has his nearly dead BT engaged i use Banner of Wrath and it finishes the Thirster and 1 of his Priest off. Later my Manticore finishes off that Secrator. I all but won that half of board. On the other side he takes out the Warshrine and only manages to kill 1 Reaper with the Thirster.

We roll off turn 3 he wins. I use Apocalyptic Frenzy at the top of his hero phase on the Reapers and they just wiped out the rest of the Letters on right flank. We call the game there because of time constraints.

I called it a draw because it was quite close game if counting models slain. We where, however, playing Knife to the Heart scenario and we surmised that if the game had continued i would of won as i could easily burn 2 of his objectives turn 3 and had his 3rd contested.

My thought about the game was first the Thirster of Rage's Outrageous Carnage abilty is crazy good. He wrecked me so hard turn 1 with that and the halo artifact is like awesome as hell. The Lord on Manticore was pretty underwhelming, however, i forgot all about his command trait and i think a different artifact could help him a lot, i was also rolling pretty bad but he did hang in there till the end andbhis flying and 6" pile in is invaluable. He played his Priest poorly and was never within range of his altar but mine capitalized on the reroll, it made a noticeable difference. Bloodletters where not impressive but neither are the Blood Warriors if they get hit hard enuff. The Deathbringer with spear sucked without any kind of trait or artifact. The Stokers reroll all failed wounds saved the day, i would take 2 instead of the Deathbronger if he wasn't a battalion requirement. Once again Slaughterborn's worsten rend was a real pain for my opponent, especially on those 3 wound Reapers. The Reapers just drowned my opponent with so many attacks they where MVP by far, just 5 where able to take down 30 man blobs. The Banner of Wrath was exactly what i needed and it was able to polish off some key units, i will definitely take this whenever i can. The Warshrine is nice the reroll all failed hit buff is amazing with Stokers reroll all failed wounda especially when used on Warriors with the run + charge command ability altho it did lil to help me this game but the Warshrine is pretty sturdy and big which makes it a good tarpit if nothing else. From now on im going to forgo all summoning and focus on maximizing the boons half of the Blood Tithe table as i feel it is amazingly powerful and total game clencher if used wisely.

Edited April 14, 2019 by ChaosUndivided
Typo

[Warbossironteef]

1 hour ago, Killax said:

Old advice: bring some ranged support with Wrathmongers and Skullcannons

New advice: we don't have any good interaction. The best thing we can do is likely 2x 10 Blood Warriors to scoot up with Goretide Comman Ability and hope your key stuff sort of survives and your opponent can't screen these Blood Warriors.

Yeah I was using bloodwarriors to try and break the lines but it was still hard. 

One game I played freeguild and I think that's just a hard counter to Khorne. He went heavy shooting and because we are so slow he was able to set up on objectives and then never move and get all his bonuses. Plus shoot again when I charged. Stormcast has also been difficult but maybe Freeguild are just a hard counter. 

[Killax]

17 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

Yeah I was using bloodwarriors to try and break the lines but it was still hard. 

One game I played freeguild and I think that's just a hard counter to Khorne. He went heavy shooting and because we are so slow he was able to set up on objectives and then never move and get all his bonuses. Plus shoot again when I charged. Stormcast has also been difficult but maybe Freeguild are just a hard counter. 

Slow armies suffer from this, we can't really interact due to that wonderful FAQ.

We basically can work against Magic, but need opponents to basically not shoot. Consider Slaughterborn with Goretide, hope to survive and not have opponents be able to teleport or quickly move said ranged units. 6 Skullcrushers could help too.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Killax

[Mikelomba]

I have FEC and khorne.. a friend of mine used my gilstergore fec vs my khorne.

1 terror killed my 3 thirsters.

[Battlefury]

Is there any possibility, to actually let GW know, that people might feel kind of scammed / dissapointed / frustrated / angry?

Other than just redesigning the army within the community itself, would you think there is an actual opportunity, that GW might revisit it again within given circumstances?
Honestly I think they won't because they normally ship out stuff and just let it be.

But maybe anyone knows how to actually put pressure to the company.

I feel that frustrated right now, i can't really tell. Just getting clubbed over and over again is not funny. And even when I play well, i do not win due to the objectives. Old story, really.

Edited April 14, 2019 by Battlefury

[Xasz]

6 minutes ago, Battlefury said:

Is there any possibility, to actually let GW know, that people might feel kind of scammed / dissapointed / frustrated / angry?

Facebook comes to mind if you use it but I'd guess that negative stuff gets removed.

Maybe through the WarhammerTV stream but the chat might be in subscriber-only-mode or moderated as well.

[ChaosUndivided]

So i just read over FAQ and commentary and thought it was pretty good but i still have a couple questions.

First one, as per core rules a model that flees durring battleshock counts as slain. So does this mean that Blood Warriors who flee due to battleshock get to use No Respite prior to fleeing? Also does this imply all units who flee due to failed battleshock while Relentless Fury is active get to pile in and attack? Surprisingly this hasn't come up in a game of mine prior to last night and we all agreed fleeing units count as slain therefore get to pile in and attack.

Second question, when a unit is picked to move during the hero phase with Murderlust do they also get to run? Its not clear to me one way or another.

[Xasz]

2 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

First one, as per core rules a model that flees durring battleshock counts as slain. So does this mean that Blood Warriors who flee due to battleshock get to use No Respite prior to fleeing? Also does this imply all units who flee due to failed battleshock while Relentless Fury is active get to pile in and attack?

Both of those effects check for Combat Phase, which is resolved before the Battleshock Phase.

[ChaosUndivided]

4 minutes ago, Xasz said:

Both of those effects check for Combat Phase, which is resolved before the Battleshock Phase.

Ok i see that. I originally thought that fleeing units didn't get to fight but i had 2 people say otherwise. I should have just read rules out loud per badem.

What about Murderlust?

[Xasz]

2 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

Ok i see that. I originally thought that fleeing units didn't get to fight but i had 2 people say otherwise. I should have just read rules out loud per badem.

What about Murderlust?

I think that's a common mistake, especially if you come from Oldhammer, but the Battleshock Phase is completely separate from combat.

Murderlust is the move/charge, I think you mean Apoplectic Frenzy which is activated at the start of the Hero Phase... so no No Respite or Relentless Fury as well.

[ChaosUndivided]

2 minutes ago, Xasz said:

I think that's a common mistake, especially if you come from Oldhammer, but the Battleshock Phase is completely separate from combat.

Murderlust is the move/charge, I think you mean Apoplectic Frenzy which is activated at the start of the Hero Phase... so no No Respite or Relentless Fury as well.

Yeah i get No Respute and Relentless Fury don't track with getting to pile in and fight as it affects a different phase. I just had a completely seprate question regarding can you run or not when using Murderlust. As the rules states you can make a "normal" moce or choose to charge i would read that as you can't move + run, i just wantes to get other opinions on that.

[Xasz]

8 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

Yeah i get No Respute and Relentless Fury don't track with getting to pile in and fight as it affects a different phase. I just had a completely seprate question regarding can you run or not when using Murderlust. As the rules states you can make a "normal" moce or choose to charge i would read that as you can't move + run, i just wantes to get other opinions on that.

Sorry, I didn't get you there.

This question was answered in the FAQ of the previous edition and is now in the Core Rules.

A Normal Move means that you can move the distance shown on the warscroll. Furthermore, you can run and you can retreat as part of a normal move.

 

Edited April 14, 2019 by Xasz

[Warbossironteef]

2 hours ago, Killax said:

Slow armies suffer from this, we can't really interact due to that wonderful FAQ.

We basically can work against Magic, but need opponents to basically not shoot. Consider Slaughterborn with Goretide, hope to survive and not have opponents be able to teleport or quickly move said ranged units. 6 Skullcrushers could help too.

It feels kind of bad that running tanky guys into the enemy is one of our only tactics. I get that Khorne does one thing, Khorne things, but I think from a gameplay option it would be nice to have more movement/strategic options. 

Like 10x reapers with 5xWrathmonger behind them is pretty awesome, but it's so slow and expensive that it's hard to even get to fun part. But I do love that combo. Bronzed flesh on the Reapers and then the Wrathmongers can hit from behind because 2inch range.

[ChaosUndivided]

1 minute ago, Xasz said:

Sorry, I didn't get you there.

This question was answered in the FAQ of the previous edition and is now in the Core Rules.

A Normal Move means that you can move the distance shown on the warscroll. Furthermore, you can run and you can retreat as part of a normal move.

 

Awesome, thanks for clearing that up for me. 

So to recap:

Murderlust can move/retreat + run.

You cannot pile in and attack again if models are slain due to battleshock under any circumstances as it is no longer the combat phase.

If you kill Bloodwarriors (Khorne vs Khorne) with Apocalyptic Frenzy they do not get No Respite cuz again not combat phase.

[Warbossironteef]

The whole Skullcannon thing continuesto bug me. They should have taken the time, after realizing that they wanted to nerf them, to realize they are too expensive. 

A simple fix would be to change Mongers to melee attacks but then also lower the Cannons points to like 120... instead they are completely dead. 

[ChaosUndivided]

1 minute ago, Warbossironteef said:

The whole Skullcannon thing continuesto bug me. They should have taken the time, after realizing that they wanted to nerf them, to realize they are too expensive. 

A simple fix would be to change Mongers to melee attacks but then also lower the Cannons points to like 120... instead they are completely dead. 

GHB 19 is almost around the corner, point changes will be expected.

[Warbossironteef]

I honestly think 120 per cannon would balance them out. At least make them playable. The funny thing is I hate the models. They just help me use the models I love. 

[ledha]

Khorne always had a lot of problems against shooting armies. We don't have anything to counter that, especially since we aren't as fast as before and our units doesn't hit hard enough to kill screen quickly. And yes, freeguild are a hard counter to khorne. Their infantry can hold their own long enough for the shooting unit to annihilate us in a tempest of dices.

 

[Killax]

31 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

It feels kind of bad that running tanky guys into the enemy is one of our only tactics. I get that Khorne does one thing, Khorne things, but I think from a gameplay option it would be nice to have more movement/strategic options. 

Like 10x reapers with 5xWrathmonger behind them is pretty awesome, but it's so slow and expensive that it's hard to even get to fun part. But I do love that combo. Bronzed flesh on the Reapers and then the Wrathmongers can hit from behind because 2inch range.

It is. We don't really do Khorne things either, as our biggest plus actually comes from the not melee orientated Slaughterpriests, with the not endless spells Khorne Judgements. Again, there is nothing linking the lore to this army, just nothing. They didn't even bother to change the Wrathmonger lore to reflect their current design. Somehow they still drive opponents into a frenzy aswell, killing friend or foe... They don't do this, they used to...

I don't think 10 Bloodreavers are actually a good deal at 70 at all. I agree with you that Wrathmongers are pretty good with Skullreapers. We have some decent units in a vacume, but we litterly cannot do anything against ranged offense currently. Those Adepticon lists for example are capable of eating any Khorne army alive.

What we do have is Tyrants of Blood, which can be very scary if the opponent doesn't run any meaningfull ranged attack units. So that aspect of Khorne I'd say is still somewhat scary. Though as we know, Bloodthirsters go down quite quickly. Stuff like Bloodreavers or Wrathmongers funnily enough is lethal to Bloodthirsters for example, regardless if they actually strike first or not.

28 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

The whole Skullcannon thing continuesto bug me. They should have taken the time, after realizing that they wanted to nerf them, to realize they are too expensive. 

A simple fix would be to change Mongers to melee attacks but then also lower the Cannons points to like 120... instead they are completely dead. 

There are many more things that again prove how little the designer was interested in doing this Khorne book.

Valkia is described as a Daemon Princess, or half Mortal. But does not have both Keywords.
Juggernauts are mentioned as Daemons, but neither the Khorne Lord who rides it or the Skullcrushers have both Mortal and Daemon Keywords.
Khul cannot lead the Goretide and have bonus abilities, despite it being his army.
Mighty Lord of Khorne and Khul both have a Fleshhound, treated as a mount this time, and still do not have both Mortal and Daemon Keywords.

As before nothing really good has actually come forth of the the Khorne book updates lol. I guess the only thing that's sort of scary now is that we indeed can run 4 Bloodthirsters and if your opponent wasn't prepaired he's going to lose Key units. Maby.

25 minutes ago, ChaosUndivided said:

GHB 19 is almost around the corner, point changes will be expected.

I can assure you the only things for Khorne I expect there is that Tyrants of Blood will cost 180 and Bloodreavers might go to 60 or a bigger discount at 40.
The last 3 years the Skullcannon has been utter useless since AoS' inception. 

The sad thing remains is that Khorne has no ways to move up quickly. I was under the assumption that this was purposefully done because the Skullcannon became a viable unit for a week. Though after 3 years of Khorne updates appearantly someone decided one week of Skullcannons being okay was enough. 

Meanwhile 9 Warplock Jezzails in Skaven are cool and 3-4 Bolt Throwers in Stormcast are cool. Nice.

[Bjornas]

Maybe the Forbidden Power expansion has some movement-enhancing spells that Slaughterpriests can use :D

Edited April 14, 2019 by Bjornas