AoS 2 - Blades of Khorne Discussion

[Battlefury]

15 minutes ago, MOMUS said:

 

In a word yes, lol. My main gripe is that the secrator which was the main crux/crutch of the army  has massively changed but still stayed the same points and everyone's bravery and points stayed the same? Surely such a massive change would have many similar knock on effects? I get why it was done, just seems now rather than castle around the banner everyone will castle around the new free terrain bandwagon.

This combined with some keyword restrictions on everything and the range 8 fluffy nonsense range on loads of abilities is frustrating.

I was hoping on some flexibility on summoning and tithe but it's actually been locked down even more inflexible. Which is a shame cuz I enjoyed the tactical aspect this opened up for khorne when 2.0 dropped.

Had a game against a top UK khorne player the other day and had some talk on lists, will defo need to start from scratch!

Slaughterhosts  have no minimum requirements which is good, but cmd traits and artefacts are mandatory

Exactly this!

That's what really buggs me, too. A lot of combos are just restricted, because someone would use the hosts.
Gameplay went very static, tbh. It was a shame before, that noone could reach the enemy very fast, now it's kind of the same, or even worse due to the buff restrictions.

The Slaughterpriests can grant buffs for units, while within 8", or 12", or 16". Why though? They are supposed to stay with the altar to reliably cast those judgements. Otherwise they will get battered so hard, with their 5+ save.
Bloodsecrator's change was good to an extend, where he now cna move with his buff. But no bravery resistant really pushes him down a lot.
Don't like that. Now we pretty much have to bank our CPs to gain battleshock resistance, and that's actually bad, tbh.

Next meta is gonna be:

Tyrants battalion with Halo of Blood
Skullcrushers / Bloodcrushers combos ( no need of the battalion, tbh )
Skullcanon + judgement shooting armies

That's really gonna be it.

[Warbossironteef]

I feel like that is very gloom and doom. Its funny because from an outside perspective, someone who is just starting Khorne I think the book is great.

[Battlefury]

4 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

I feel like that is very gloom and doom. Its funny because from an outside perspective, someone who is just starting Khorne I think the book is great.

Maybe that's the purpose of the book, actually.

Khorne was almost vanished from the tournament metas, so it wasn't really sold.

[Warbossironteef]

Can we talk a little bit more about the Goretide Chaos Lord on Manticore. That seems like a legit threat. +1 dmg on melee weapons. Now I think it wouldn't apply to the mount's attacks.

Does anyone have any rules experience with this? Even if it doesnt, the lance would be doing 4 dmg on the charge. That's insane.

[Mikeymajq]

Well, there are always some on here who just want to talk about gloom and doom because things change. And it gets a bit monotomous after it reoccuring every few pages. 

It's so funny too because in other threads and forums you can see people being salty on how OP our new battletome is instead . 

Guess you can't please anyone

Edited March 24, 2019 by Mikeymajq

[KhorneySteve]

8 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:

Well, there are always some on here who just want to talk about gloom and doom because things change. And it gets a bit monotomous after it reoccuring every few pages. 

It's so funny too because in other threads and forums you can see people being salty on how OP our new battletome is instead . 

Guess you can't please anyone

Yeah I've seen people all over complaining that our new tome is op, yet some people here complain it's the exact opposite. 

Yes things have changed but that's a good thing imo, I'm excited to try out new lists and learn what works and what doesn't. 

I'm picking Skarbrand up this week as well so will be up to almost 5k worth of points, definitely not prepared to change armies at this stage. 

[ChaosUndivided]

42 minutes ago, Warbossironteef said:

I feel like that is very gloom and doom. Its funny because from an outside perspective, someone who is just starting Khorne I think the book is great.

Yeah, the old army basically operated on archaic rules that where kinda broke especially in 2.0. This new battletome brings them to the 2.0 era and its a good thing. 

There is things here like the lack of battleshock immunity which seems to bring everything else's value down which hasn't been adjusted in the points so i can see why people are dismayed.

16 minutes ago, Mikeymajq said:

It's so funny too because in other threads and forums you can see people being salty on how OP our new battletome is instead . 

The grass is always greener... Especially to those who have been waiting years for a book now. This book changes so much of what people where used to playing that its gonna take awhile for people to adjust.

[Xasz]

It's just a paradigm shift, all the other factions now know what's gonna happen to them and I am sure no one is looking forward to the "wholly within" fest. Plus a round of streamlining between abilities.

BoK is just the first and will therefore stands out for a while. (Sadly, being the first book when something like this happens is rarely good, sometimes the developers realize they nerfed too much or back paddle on their design choices a few months later i.e. with the next books. At least we have the GHB coming up?!)

Personally, I look forward to playing a 3-4 BT list, but that's just me as I really like to play monster heavy (fewer models to paint, smaller room for mistakes, "no" battleshock) Gonna put the order out before brexit hits, because currently I own none . Until then I'll probably test a bit of Goretide + Bloodmad as I have the models more or less ready.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Xasz

[ChaosUndivided]

Can we talk a minute about how cool the lore is in this book? I don't read the novels so i pretty much get all my lore from the battletomes. 

On the very first page it paints Khorne as the greatest chaos god. Then later it cements the fact that if this was just a war between the dark gods Khorne would ultimately be victorious.

They dedicate time to explaining the logistics, which i appreciated. Their basically Sparta where all Khornate are warriors who serve one purpose which is to fight. Then they have droves of unworthy weakling slaves who follow the armies around in manticles and chains who carry/build stuff.

I liked the part about how places of great battles where much blood where spilled are essentially sacred to them and the viel between reality and the realm of Khorne is thin.

It goes on to explain how a person, tribe, or even whole nations could become overwhelmed by bloodlust and the power of Khorne without them even knowing it. It felt very timely and realistic.

And the parts about how the Skull Alter actually rises up from out of the grown through ritual was great. It always baffles me how immobile terrain pieces are always on the battlefield. 

Also it explains that the eldrich energies released by the necroquake enraged Khorne so much and weakened the barrier between the realms and that of chaos now priest can summon forth the Judgments.

The part i found the moat interesting was a passage about becoming a Blood Warrior, how a Reaver could be wisked away to Khorne's realm and then return forged in hellish armor. It felt like the inverse of becoming a Stormcast, a warped mirror image. It went on further to talk about the spirits of fallen deamons and "soul-predators" in that the deamons must pass thru the "flames of Helbrass" to be born anew like the reforging process of there arch-enemies.

It was all so interesting to me and didn't feel contrived (even if it was) that i absolutely loved reading the book cover to cover. Thought it was great.

[KhorneySteve]

Further on from that I love the lore behind Skarbrand and Skulltaker, Skarbrand really showcases Khornes rage/Wrath for (his strongest attack took a ****** out of Khornes armour, so he picked Skarbrand up, choked all thought and reason from him before hurling him across all of creation) 

The lore in this book is amazing and I also don't read the novels so pretty much only get lore from battletome. 

[Battlefury]

The books does have its shiny sides for sure. But for experienced players, who played the army from release of AoS right up, it is a different story.

We know the flaws of the army probably better than any other player, especially those, who join in new now. The book adresses none of the main issues the old Battletome had.
That's a concern that needs to be aknowledged. We shall never judge people on our own opinions.

Maybe a big number thinks the book is good, and that's fine. Others are totally let down, and that's clearly a big number of players these days.

I hope, that people will find a good way to play.
For me personally, the army got destroyed, as the playstyle totally changed to a defensive meta. That's absolutely not Khorne for me. Khorne used to have all these different aspects of battle combined in itself. The old book got hammered, so it wasn't that anymore. The new book doesn't adress that, too.

But anyway, i wish everyone to have fun, when they enjoy the new book.

[ChaosUndivided]

Waaaaah Santa didn't bring me the toy i wanted. Seriously tho. 

There are changes that are annoying but like how do you even deal with life if this upsets you? I'm dying right now.

Things change, they grow, evolve, and further more have a right to. This "us old players" mentality has been hurting AoS forever now... Let it go! Roll with punches and march on. People seem so captivated by negative things they can't appreciate the good.

Since when is run + charge and holding objectives defensive? This is gonna take time to sort out, people are jumping to conclusions too quickly, it stiffens the thought process.

[KhorneySteve]

I don't believe we're now a defensive army at all, I'm miffed about some of the changes (Wrathmongers death making an enemy attack themselves) but I understand why it's changed as it streamlines it a bit. I think people have become far too dependent on certain elements that it's going to take time to adjust. For one I no longer view bloodsecrator as auto include and doubt I'll bother running Gore pilgrims. This allows us to open up our options and look at everything as a whole, which is no bad thing imo. 

I'm really excited for my next few games as I'm running totally different lists, which include some units I've never used before. 

[Mikeymajq]

I've played the army since before there were points and I'm not bummed out about our new book. As stated above, it's a paradigm shift, a step in a new direction. And I'd much rather have that then just a few pts adjustments. Sure there are some changes that I didn't like personally, but that doesn't mean the book is bad. In fact I think generally speaking it's a lot stronger than before. Just in a better balanced way and without having to rely on outdated rules becoming broken in a new edition.

 

[kahadin]

I'd really appreciate it if people brought in the arguments for "New Khorne so OP LOL!"

I'm not seeing them in this thread, and I'm not seeing them elsewhere. It would be really helpful if we could just copy/paste some of those nuggets here so we could be privy to all those op nuggets everyone else knows about that we don't. Everything I see is more like "This unit can now see play in these conditions" and "Yeah that got weaker, but it was already so OP it still is." Maybe demons got great and I'm just being narrow minded as I prefer mortals...

Also I can tell you guys from experience that the Manticore lord is pretty good. I like him with Berserker lord to make him tanky, but the +1 damage, even on just his weapons is very strong.

Also, I think now that the battalions have changed for beasts of chaos so we can actually take them in a knorne army is worth thinking about. Bulgores with +1 to hit should be nasty for 140 points. I havn't had too much time to think about using BoC yet (when I first picked them up you couldn't use marked battalions outside BoCso I put the out of my mind).

If anyone thins of something decent before me let  us know, because BoC might be fun with our buffs. Not sure if they are better than regular BoC though.

Edit: I posted this as Mikey posted, but I'm glad to see that there is a feeling that the book is good from someone that actually played it.

 

Edited March 24, 2019 by kahadin

[Mikeymajq]

I will post the OP salt here when next I see it

Oh yeah, bullgors really love that +1 to hit don't they? I've seen them a few times in batreps and they either do nothing or just pastes a unit. 

I can't wait to play a few more games with the new book. My current list actually has gorepilgrims in it. Mostly because I'm gonna shoot off a big unit of blood warriors so the extra banner range will help. But also I find that I want more artefacts to dole out because some of them are amazing, but also so I can "get around" the mandatory artefacts of the slaughterhosts. Sure an unmodified save is amazing... buuuut I kinda want to play with some of our new toys too since I feel there are a lot of fun combos to explore there. ( I looove the new gorecleaver!)

Edited March 24, 2019 by Mikeymajq

[Warbossironteef]

9 hours ago, Roark said:

Haha, awesome. I need to be able to make a Chaos Lord on Manticore my Goretide general.

On the charge, with Dimensional Blade:

Daemon blade 4 3 3 -3 dmg1d3+1
Lance 3 3 3 -1 dmg4 (on the charge)
Jaws 5 4 2 -2 dmg2
Tail d6 4 4 0 dmg2

And all those weapon profiles can be buffed out the wazoo with Mongers, Secrators and Deathbringers. 

Not a bad combat package for 250pts. He can be my Mortal Thirster. 😉

(Imagine if, around GHB time, they fix his Mark ability to be a true 6" pile-in too. That would be insane.)

 

Do you think it applies to the mount? I thought some FAQ said only the generals weapons not the mount. 

[Mikeymajq]

Yeah artefacts and command traits don't affect mounts.

[kenshin620]

To be fair I do see why there is negativity, it stems from the overarching question of "GW, [X] is bad/problematic. Why do you not fix it despite it being obvious?"

Maybe it's not the same exact argument, but for example tau auxiliary fans have been complaining for entire editions that tau auxiliaries have been continually shafted and basically have gotten no new models since their original inception nor have great rules.

 

I still wish Bloodcrushers have 2 sword attacks. 3 would be even better. I think 160pts for 3 attack bloodletter riders would be a nice choice vs 140pts for 1 attack but maybe thats actually an op idea that I really like!

[Ravinsild]

I asked while back about the Axe of Khorne, does anyone know how it’s supposed to work, is the D6 damage within 3” front loaded when it’s first summoned, or backloaded after it has moved?

[ChaosUndivided]

3 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

I asked while back about the Axe of Khorne, does anyone know how it’s supposed to work, is the D6 damage within 3” front loaded when it’s first summoned, or backloaded after it has moved?

If your talking about Wrath Axe you move it then when your done pick 1 unit with 3 and deal d6.

[Battlefury]

22 minutes ago, kenshin620 said:

To be fair I do see why there is negativity, it stems from the overarching question of "GW, [X] is bad/problematic. Why do you not fix it despite it being obvious?"

Maybe it's not the same exact argument, but for example tau auxiliary fans have been complaining for entire editions that tau auxiliaries have been continually shafted and basically have gotten no new models since their original inception nor have great rules.

 

I still wish Bloodcrushers have 2 sword attacks. 3 would be even better. I think 160pts for 3 attack bloodletter riders would be a nice choice vs 140pts for 1 attack but maybe thats actually an op idea that I really like!

Agree 100%.

The main issues, that where adresses for years and literaly broguht to GW where just not adressed. It seems, as other Armies get massively better "redesigned" with their upcoming books.

I can totally see, that there is potential in the current army, as it is supposed to be.
Maybe I am gonna find into them again. But they where sitting on the shelf for more than 1 year now, and i don't see, why to bring them out now.

Even thinking about selling my 2500 points.

Edited March 24, 2019 by Battlefury

[Mikeymajq]

Yeah bloodcrushers are kind of in a wierd place. I can see the thought behind it. It's a regular bloodletter on a juggernaut. But when you compare them to skullcrushers, for 40 pts more you not only gain a bunch of attacks, but also another wound and a better save too. You only lose out o 6s to mw and maybe some daemon synergies (but then you gain mortal synergies instead so not sure that counts). I mean, it's all very logical as to why.. but I think they could probably drop a few more pts and at least be 'the cheaper option' that you can use for big units to deal mortal wounds on the charge with. But then maybe that would make them too cheap with a pontentially murderous charge...

[ChaosUndivided]

I think there was some confusion earlier about when Judgments dissipate. Its after each BATTLE ROUND.

I know this was touched upon before but beara repeating. The Hex Skulls can dissipate before the enemies hero phase, making them pretty much unreliable.

On a side note i know some people where planning on using the Warshrine to push up with Judgments to get the +1 to the dissipate roll, cuz its beefier than Slaughter Priest, but you gotta be wholly within 8 to get bonus and with that things base size it will be very hard to do.

Edit: The real question here is since the Hex Skulls are 2 models do you have to be wholly within both, or just 1 to get bonus? Cuz if its just 1 you can move 1 Skull up to enemy then 1 Skull 6inches closer to you than keep priest 7 or so inches back from that and still get bonus. On the flip side how does it work for say Warshrine, does he have to be wholly with 1 model or can he be wholly within each between the overlapping area both not 1 specifically.

Edited March 24, 2019 by ChaosUndivided

[Easytyger]

5 hours ago, Warbossironteef said:

I feel like that is very gloom and doom. Its funny because from an outside perspective, someone who is just starting Khorne I think the book is great.

I was disappointed at first but the more i have time really to figure stuff out I think there is going to more diversity in the meta for competitive Khorne lists, not less.  For old Khorne players like my self many of the changes seem like nerfs in isolation. Taken as a whole though I think Khorne is in a better place. 

Edited March 24, 2019 by Easytyger