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Chris Tomlin

AoS 2 - Beastclaw Raiders Discussion

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So I took beastclaw raiders to a local 3 round Adepticon primer this weekend. My goal was to win at least 1 game, as beastclaw is clearly an army you play because of the hobby as opposed to power gaming. My local area has some great players that have frequently placed top 5 at major tournaments, Adepticon included, so I wasn't getting my hopes too high.

My list was the following:

Frostlord on stonehorn- ethereal amulet

Hunter - general w/everwinter master and mammoth skull plate

Mournfang x4 (full command)

Mournfang x4 (full command)

Goregruntas x3

Goregruntas x3

Frost sabres x2

Frost sabres x2

Frost sabres x2

Skal

Braggoth's beast hammer 

 

I know the beast hammer has mixed feelings here, but if I'm playing beastclaw to begin with, why not play what I want, have fun and see what happens? 

Round 1 I'm paired with gloomspite. His list from memory:

Madcap shaman

Dankhold troggboss

Boss on mangler squig

Stabbas x60

Shootas x20

Shootas x20

Rockgut troggoth x3

Boinggrot bounders x10

Boingrot bounders x10

We played the mission with 1 objective in each of our terroitory amd 2 along the center line. 

I won priority and made him go first. He didn't do much but move his grots up to the objectives and score 5 points. 

My turn and I keep the skal off the board. Roll up extra movement for my blessing and do what beastclaw raiders do best and CHARGE.

 

Combat went very well for me. I got frosty, both mournfang units and a unit of pigs in. I used the double pile in for the beast hammer and when the dust settled I had wiped out all but 10 grots. The +1 to hit bonus helped offset the netter penalties, so that made my charge pretty devastating. 

I won priority and got the double turn. I kept the skal off again and the Frostlord charged into a unit of bounders, also sucking in the second unit. I flubbed my rolls pretty bad, but still took out 8 of them. Mournfang finished chewing through the remainig grots and the rest of the army picked up objectives.

He brought all the troggs up and slammed them into ol' frosty who promptly  made all his saves. The frostlord proceeded to one shot the troggboss.

He won priority and started with movement shenanigans with his mangler and ended up capping my objective. Again, the amulet proved amazing and I've only taken like 3 wounds at this point. I ended up smoking all the rockguts, however, he did score quite a few points and the game is still up in the air. 

My turn 3 I brought the skal down to claim his objective and moved some cav back to take mine again. Frostlord once again made quick work of his target, destroying the mangler squig. My opponent conceded at this point, as he had his shaman left and a full turn was left.

So a major victory round 1, my goal of winning a game was accomplished and I'm feeling good. I know the next round was going to be tough, so I didn't want to get too excited.

Round 2 against Legions of Nagash. I see the big daddy of the undead and already know I'm screwed. I won't bore you, but I took first turn trying to do as much damage as I could. I failed all charges except the frostlord, who did well all things considered. Nagash then hand of dusted him into nothing and that was that.

Major loss

So after being brought back to earth, I figured I'd do my best to pick up that 2nd win. I'm paired with Beast of Chaos. His list from memory:

Tzaangor shaman

Bray shaman

Shaggoth

Tzaangor enlightened x6

Tzaangor enlightened x6

Bestigors x30

Bestigors x30

Beastigors x10

Ungors x40

 

We played the mission with 2 objectives that can only be taken by a behemoth or hero with an artifact. Again, I won priority and made him go first. He wasn't in range of anything, so he moved up. He brought on the unit of 30 and unit of 40 from a board edge, but failed his charges. His shooting did kill 2 pigs. One of his tzaangors made a long charge, but his shaman failed so he didn't do much. I killed a few in return and he sat his shaggoth on one objective. 

I brought my skal down because I had to match him on points, and I'm not leaving a 420 point frostlord to babysit an objective. My mournfang exploded into the remaing tzaangor and deleted them. My frostlord hit his screen of 30 along with the other mournfang and by the end, they were dead. 

I won priority and took it. I moved away from the mass of 70 models and swung around to kill the tiny sacrificial squad and the bray shaman. I pulled the rest of my army back and protected my objective.

His turn 2 he started running across the board. He repositined everything, fortified his shaggoth and tried to set up for a killing blow next turn. 

He won priority and gave it to me. I looked at the field and my frostlord was 31" from his shaggoth. I got the everwinter move, ran and made it a 6 so I needed a 10" charge to make the shaggoth and essentially close out the game. I failed the charge and re-rolled hoping for that 10...I got a 9. 

So I settled for charging both my mournfang and goregruntas into the tzaangor and the shaman. I hit pretty well with the mournfang and they proceeded to absolutely murder my pigs. I activated my double attack and killed all but 1 tzaangor and was able to sneak around and sneak one rider within 2" of his shaman. Both attacks hit and wounded and he failed both saves and POOF! No more tzaangor shaman.

The rest of the game ended in a draw, as neither of us could get to the remaining hero and I suffered a minor loss because I missed my secondary objective and he got his.

 

So afterwards, I was very happy with how the army played. I made a few errors, my opponents did too. The power discrepancy was painfully obvious but with good target priority, a few rolls going my way and the frostlord going absolutely BERSERK, beastclaw was a lot of fun 

 

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3 hours ago, Brakkus said:

beastclaw was a lot of fun 

Man this was a good read, so happy you just went with what you thought was fun and tried to make that competitive. In my opinion it worked out for you, even snagging away the win. With a Nagash list... yeah... you gotta miraculously kill him straight up or, just not... LoN is the most broken army now and the nerf will come once GW decides that Nagash may not be the main villain anymore. ...Right? Nagash will stay a monster though. 

Edited by That Guy

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@Reuben Parker I went with skull for my second frostlord at dragonfall and it was just okay. It's true though that a cost you pay for using ethereal is that there isn't a great second artefact choice. Did a batrep on my channel for the event, went 3-2. Super fun event.

@Brakkus awesome!

Edited by heywoah_twitch
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Complete noob, I was thinking of using this for my first game. 

Allegiance: Beastclaw Raiders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
- General
- Trait: Everwinter's Master 
- Artefact: The Pelt of Charngar 
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
Butcher (140)
- Pair of Stump Blades and Great Cauldron
- Allies
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
- Gargant Hackers
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
- Gargant Hackers
Stonehorn Beastriders (320)
- Option: Chaintrap
Emerald Lifeswarm (60)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 140 / 400
Wounds: 93
 

Are two Frostlords overkill? I know he combos well with a Huskard on Thundertusk for healing, but with Emerald Lifeswarm, pelt and a Butcher, I thought I'd have that aspect covered. Maybe a damage orientated artefact is better with two Frostlords? Do you think splitting the Mournfang Packs would be a better option? Min size for rushing objectives, if they aren't occupied, and two extra shots with the unit's leaders. I guess that invalidates some o the Butcher's buffs though. 

I didn't take battalions mostly to simplify the game, but I couldn't see much value in what's listed anyway. I just aimed to rush things with the Stonehorns and focus the battleline on objectives, maybe have a spare Frostlord support a unit too. 

Thanks and I'm hyped for wave two of BCR. A priest, endless spells and terrain would be perfect, but I wonder if they'll just lump them in with Gutbusters for that. Separate armies with a soup option but shared endless spells/terrain. Maybe a massive cauldron pulled by beats or Grots to fit with both. 

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54 minutes ago, Floom said:

Are two Frostlords overkill? I know he combos well with a Huskard on Thundertusk for healing, but with Emerald Lifeswarm, pelt and a Butcher, I thought I'd have that aspect covered. Maybe a damage orientated artefact is better with two Frostlords? Do you think splitting the Mournfang Packs would be a better option? Min size for rushing objectives, if they aren't occupied, and two extra shots with the unit's leaders. I guess that invalidates some o the Butcher's buffs .

No, two frostlords are not a bad idea at all. I think the pelt is a decent pick, the offensive capabilities of a frostlord are not really in question. In my experience, 4 mournfangs outperform 2x2 every time.

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1 hour ago, Floom said:

Maybe a damage orientated artefact is better with two Frostlords? 

Since you’re running a butcher and the life swarm for potential heals you might want consider the Ethereal Amulet on your FL, where as the pelt can only be used  in your hero phase the amulet will ignore rend always. In the end it will more than likely prevent your FL from taking more wounds than the pelt will heal.

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Really like the Braggoth battalion thematically and access to hit buffs is a godsend for this army. How would you guys optimize this battalion? This is the list I'm thinking of running. Not sure if cogs are necessary and the list is 4 drops which inst ideal. Would forgoing magic altogether and taking skal battalion with icebrow and 3 units of 2 cats bringing it down to two drops be better?

Allegiance: Beastclaw Raiders
Mortal Realm: Ghur

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
- Artefact: Gryph-feather Charm 
Icebrow Hunter (140)
- General
- Trait: Everwinter's Master 
- Artefact: Elixir of Frostwyrm 
Butcher (140)
- Cleaver
- Allies

Battleline
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
- Gargant Hackers
4 x Mournfang Pack (320)
- Gargant Hackers
4 x Frost Sabres (80)

Units
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Braggoth's Beast Hammer (230)

Endless Spells
Chronomantic Cogs (60)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 140 / 400
Wounds: 113

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Only 2 changes I would do:

 

-Split the sabres into 2x2, they are fantastic objective grabbers.

-Braggoth's item is usually either the Ethereal Amulet (ignores rend) or the one from Aqshy that grants him +4"M and fly (combines perfectly with the ability of pile in twice, ignoring screening enemy units).

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^ This and Aqshy also has Ignax’s Scales for negating mortals on 4+. Uhm also, I suggest giving the butcher a cauldron, it really is his only good loadout. The cauldron itself can be a game changer, from a heal to another +1 to hit for mournfang, you must admit, 2+ to hit mournfang sounds pretty sweet. Your drops so far are fine you will still outdrop most armies, and if not try to position so that you can have the alpha strike after all in turn 2. With the cogs especially, you can pull of some risky shenanigans.

Edited by That Guy
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Agree with what others said, though I'd definitely go Ethereal. The thermalrider cloak seems cool, but it makes staying within 6" for the hit buff even more tempting to ignore. That annoying and restrictive positioning is what caused me to give up on beasthammer after testing - besides not being able to fit enough mournfang for my liking. A wizard+cogs is good to run across the table as is what the army is supposed to do, but man without a cast bonus you're flipping a coin for the main strat your army is trying to pull off. If that cast fails it feels like a really poor use of 200 points. I'd almost say paying 230points on buffs is enough with units as expensive as these, much less the extra 200 from butcher+cogs. Get some more bodies perhaps, or flip that coin like a champ.

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20 hours ago, Floom said:

Are two Frostlords overkill?

No, they are our star player you’ll like him. You see as a new player, i understand that you think this army can be overkill fast, but you’ll need it in the current meta. It’s important to use the raw power from this super elite army and overwhelm the opponent. Power to you my friend. Also, yes like the others said. Look into malign sorceries for realm artefacts, they are sort of must haves. Ethereal Amulet for a Stonehorn that won’t have his save rended, Ignax’s Scales for a 4 up mortal wound save after the save. Thermalrider Cloak, for +4” movement and making a mammoth flying, Gryph-Feather Charm for -1 to hit and +1 movement(great on thundertusks). There’s even more options! The general consensus though is that the Ethereal Amulet is the best pick for your frostlord especially without a battalion. With multiple artefacts it becomes a bit harder, since Shyish only offers us the Ethereal amulet being useful for our big guys. 

Also as for Mournfang, try to always run them in 4’s benefit from your command in groups of 4. The gargant hackers have the range, and an occassional cauldron buff will affect more mournfang that way. Not to mention the generic command abilities will. Overall the battleline mammoths are considered a bit of a lesser efficient pick, but in your list I understand you pick one up. Since you are a new player i must inform you, as of now the Mournfang and Battleline Mammoths are not at the greatest spot. Our biggest strengths currently lay with the Frostlord on Stonehorn, Huskard on Thundertusk, Yhetees and Frost Sabres, but don’t let it discourage you running your list like this. It will still be succesful and the frostlords will wreak havoc. Just know that you might find yourself a bit weak on bodies at times especially with how current objective capping works. So try to play for wiping your opponent whole. Another thing i can tell you is perhaps check out an Eurlbad battalion. If you like stonehorns, that is a pretty nice battalion! And the battalion makes the Huskard on Stonehorn actually good, because the +1 damage also applies to the mount in this case, since it’s an ability granted by a battalion. Last but not least, you might like to check out some lists and discussions from the previous pages, we discussed a great deal about the beastclaw recently. Also be sure to check out kind sirs Heywoah’s content and perhaps watch the beastclaw raiders review on warhammer weekly youtube. That will most definetely boost you towards the right way. Love the little inclusion of Emerald Lifeswarm there though. Did not see that one before, and since we are all multi wound you might have something going there.

Edited by That Guy
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How many Yhetees should I consider grabbing for a 2k list? I'm gonna pick up some Reaper models to use as proxies since Yhetees are hard to come by and expensive.

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3 minutes ago, mrbedlam said:

 

How many Yhetees should I consider grabbing for a 2k list?

 

It really depends on what you want to run besides it. Heck, there’s even lists that mainly run yhetees. Give us some input on what you like to run besides them. If I may suggest, Huskards on thundertusks are great. Synergizes with yhetees. Possible heals/combat buffs. The more you have, the easier the heal/buff can be pulled off. With some cats to initiate charges and control your opponents attack activations you can pull of some true shenanigans. Of course our old frostlord on stonehorn is an all rounder star player too within the mix. Give us your thoughts.

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Allegiance: Beastclaw Raiders
Mortal Realm: Shyish

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
- Artefact: Ethereal Amulet 
Huskard on Thundertusk (360)
- Blood Vulture
- Artefact: Wraithbow 
Icebrow Hunter (140)
- General
- Trait: Everwinter's Master 

Battleline
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
2 x Frost Sabres (40)
Thundertusk Beastriders (340)

Units
6 x Icefall Yhetees (240)
6 x Icefall Yhetees (240)
3 x Icefall Yhetees (120)

Total: 1980 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 116
 

What do you think on a list like this?

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34 minutes ago, That Guy said:

It really depends on what you want to run besides it. Heck, there’s even lists that mainly run yhetees. Give us some input on what you like to run besides them. If I may suggest, Huskards on thundertusks are great. Synergizes with yhetees. Possible heals/combat buffs. The more you have, the easier the heal/buff can be pulled off. With some cats to initiate charges and control your opponents attack activations you can pull of some true shenanigans. Of course our old frostlord on stonehorn is an all rounder star player too within the mix. Give us your thoughts.

Mostly I was just thinking to use a unit or two of them to hold points and work as a soft screen. I've played at 1k A frostlord, Cave Shaman, 2 x2 units Mournfang and 4 kitties and a lifeswarm so far.

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https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2019/03/age_of_sigmar_flesh-eater_courts_designers_commentary_en.pdf

Quote

Q: In a Pitched Battle, Royal Terrogheists and Royal Zombie Dragons from a Gristlegore army are Battleline. Are they still counted Behemoths as well?
A: No.

Just throwing this in here for you guys.

Quote

Allegiance: Flesh Eater Courts
- Grand Court: Gristlegore

Leaders
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)
Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist (400)

Battleline
Royal Terrorgheist (300)
Royal Terrorgheist (300)
Royal Terrorgheist (300)
Royal Terrorgheist (300)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 84

Totally a legal list.

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48 minutes ago, mrbedlam said:

I was just coming to ask if that change would apply to Beastriders as well? Seems like it should.

As far as I can tell it doesn't based off the app. It absolutely should though, Beastclaw Raiders have been needing this since their book first came out.

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2 hours ago, Malakree said:

Just throwing this in here for you guys.

Throw it into the Bonesplitterz section, you'll see some eye glints over there. 😁

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Perhaps FEC Behemoth Battleline is also a hint at what will happen with BCR 2.0 book.

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I can see GW changing it for BCR but with their current points it wouldnt make much difference 

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On 2/28/2019 at 5:48 PM, Luzgurbel said:

What do you think on a list like this?

Pretty Solid. Definetely swap out the Thundertusk Beastriders for another Huskard on Thundertusk, if you want to run 2 thundertusks. You have the leftover points for it and lets just say. That blood vulture and the extra heal/buff is gonna help you out. Definetely. Also you can’t have 2 artefacts without battalions? If you pick one definetely the Ethereal Amulet on the Frostlord on Stonehorn.

 

On 2/28/2019 at 6:08 PM, mrbedlam said:

Mostly I was just thinking to use a unit or two of them to hold points and work as a soft screen. I've played at 1k A frostlord, Cave Shaman, 2 x2 units Mournfang and 4 kitties and a lifeswarm so far.

Well it’s always better to go at least 6 man yhetee, because of sustain and punch. And use of abilities on them. So yeah. 2 x 6 maybe.

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1 hour ago, That Guy said:

Pretty Solid. Definetely swap out the Thundertusk Beastriders for another Huskard on Thundertusk, if you want to run 2 thundertusks. You have the leftover points for it and lets just say. That blood vulture and the extra heal/buff is gonna help you out. Definetely. Also you can’t have 2 artefacts without battalions? If you pick one definetely the Ethereal Amulet on the Frostlord on Stonehorn.

 

Well it’s always better to go at least 6 man yhetee, because of sustain and punch. And use of abilities on them. So yeah. 2 x 6 maybe.

Alright. Sounds perfect. I will drop in an order for 12 Reaper Yetis at my LFGS and start painting them up. What's the height of the GW Yhetees roughly so I can keep that the same through creative basing.?

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52 minutes ago, mrbedlam said:

What's the height of the GW Yhetees roughly so I can keep that the same through creative basing.?

Here's some pictures. They are about as big as a hunter, hunched over, and minus the hair. Make sure to put them on 50mm bases.

38303757121_6f88133faf_b.jpg

38272284272_c74bda6012_b.jpg

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So slightly larger than a standard Ogor? I can work with that.  Thanks!

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