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Everything posted by heywoah_twitch

  1. Yes, though his damage is underwhelming since thundertusks in melee are are super weak, finding some sort of anvil to camp an objective on the snowballing points battleplans is very important now that ethereal amulet is gone. It was a much bigger competitive hit than I thought it would be. Possibly - a casual player who often forgets to use Triumphs would be much better served by upgrading the huskard on TT to a frostlord version for the extra armor (and at least some melee damage). The 5-monster lists play very cagey and lean heavily on the capture-10 gameplay/objectives, often retreating, measuring defensively to not get charged early game, etc. I'd hoped to show that list in the video as a talking point about all the different options you could have gone with and how each might make sense with different ideas, rather than a 'This Is The List' kind of example. I think it depends on what the person likes, casual or otherwise.
  2. Went to Midwest Meltdown this weekend with 115 players, took BCR, went 3-2! Full report on the next show, but forum version: Took a fun (but tuned) list instead of an optimized one since the difference isn't terribly large in outcome. Decided to take mournfang even though they suck because they're cheaper now at 140 and I haven't played with them in over a year and just wanted to for fun. Frostlord on Stonehorn, general, everwinter, ethereal. Huskard on Stonehorn, Sepulchural Plate, Vulture 4 Mournfang, gargant hackers 4 Mournfang, gargant hackers Stonehorn Beastriders, vulture, harpoon 3 Yhetees 3 Yhetees Eurlbad 1990pts Round 1 vs Khorne, strong tyrants of blood list. Killed halo of blood thirster with vultures and impact damage from stonehorns to stop strikes first nonsense then won on points while almost getting tabled. MF were pretty good against blood warriors/reavers/other min sized weak chaff. Round 2 vs LoN, legion of blood with immortal vlozd and like 100 bodies. Out-dropped him so I could split his forces and pin some. MF were devoured trivially and just missed a lot. If I win t2 prio I win the game: nope. If I win t3 prio I win the game: nope. Major Loss Round 3 vs Khorne, mortals list. Ghur with primal violence, so at end of combat a 6+ repeats the whole combat phase. Out-dropped him, let him go first. He moved up, so my turn I charged everything and killed a bunch. Won the double then killed a bunch. Rolled a 6 to repeat the combat and was close enough to other stuff to kill basically the rest of his army. MF are alright if they pile in and attack 3x before your opponent gets another turn. Major Victory Round 4 vs Fyreslayers on lords of the lodge. Duality so I'm screwed. Out-drop him and have to go first or he tunnels a 30-blob to objectives and I lose no matter what. Get my secondary and turtle up on objectives. He charges me on both points turn 1 and kills huskard from full and also beastriders and also 3 yetis. I kill one fyreslayer model. Turn 2 I have 4 mournfang on one obj (but not controlled because numbers), and a triple chaff-screen of 3 yetis, then 3" behind them 4 mournfang, then 3" behind them frostlord. He rolls a big charge and kills the 3 yetis and all 4 mournfang, then piles in a second time to put frostlord at half life. Other point's 4 mournfang killed outright. I kill 2 fyreslayer models. He's up on points and I have 1 model alive and he wins prio so we call it and have a laugh. Major Loss Round 5 vs Skaven. jezzails and good stuff, but no pestilens nor rat trap (he said he doesn't want people to hate him). A long, difficult game where I win on points because yetis are good. MF were 1-turn speedbumps for 280pts, fully eaten by verminlord and the other 4 were outdamaged by 3 yetis and then also eaten by verminlord. Major Victory Props: Yetis greatly helped me win 2 games (especially vs skaven) Frostlord w/ ethereal being the only truly good thing in the entire faction. Pulled his weight every game. Being only 4-drop directly helped me win 2 games and gave me a chance in the 2 I lost. Not having wizards didn't hurt me at all, and in fact was a good thing every round. Domas for being the darling of midwest aos TOs. Slops: Eurlbad mortal wound proc was extremely infrequent and didn't matter. Eurlbad Huskard does good damage on paper, but just missed a lot instead with no frostspear to counteract charting. His 4+ save was such a liability, he just got bodied by anything that swung at him all day. Sepulchural Plate for being useless lol Mourfang for proving again and again that they manage to be both bad hammers and bad anvils, and too slow, and too elite. Gore-grunta or ishlaen guard they are not - but morrsarr guard or enlightened they are also not. Just worse than yetis in all situations, even at 140. Very fun event, would go again, would bring BCR again because I love BCR. Really hoping we don't drown in the soup when the new tome arrives.
  3. Yes, such abilities will also affect the mount. The only thing that doesn't affect the mounts are: 1) Command Traits 2) Artefacts Mount Traits work just fine, even on named characters.
  4. Yes, you may choose a mount trait for a named character on a mount. The Named Character rule only stipulates Command Traits and Artefacts.
  5. Does everyone play dispossessed and STD? how does a meta think that the like 5th worst army in the game is OP lol
  6. People have had some success with Braggoth's Beasthammer, although it comes with caveats. It absolutely requires your opponent to play badly and give you a turn 1 charge with no chaff, and a double turn. Has some fiddly range requirements that often leave your gore-grunta sitting too far away or out of combat, and same problem as all BCR lists: no bodies (without the insane damage, safety nets, and summoning of elite armies than are good, like say FEC). It's gone 3-0 in a few three-rounder tournaments in soft metas though not recently.
  7. I hate it. It was okay when it was only IDK as their main 'thing', and only on one predictable turn (that you tended to retreat during because there wasn't a way not to lose all those fights unless way ahead oh board). But now that it's just 'on' a bunch of stuff, it creates melee haves and have nots <-- and I don't like using that term because I think it's overused. Now every single army needs either great shooting or ASF for themselves or they will get hard-countered in combat. Maybe the world will look different when everyone has a 2nd ed battletome, but this is making the wait for those of us without one all the more painful. I used to include clever 6" pile in tricks in that group as a neat way to get around ASF, like yhetees or sisters of slaughter, but they nerfed that interaction . If you don't have excellent shooting, you pretty much just have to run away from anything with that mechanic, and that feels bad. It's fundamentally different than hero phase attacking, as that mechanic only worked in long combats left over from last turn - ASF is instant and aggressive. I can say that glass cannon melee's stock is plummeting if more and more people can just stand there and get charged - but still wipe out their attackers before activation. Those are the kind of mechanics I really don't like: "If I charge something I'll win, and if they charge me because I positioned poorly who cares? I'll just strike first and win anyway."
  8. If you get a double turn, you are further rewarded next battle round by winning ties.
  9. I disagree with the framing that these two are opposed - they don't have to be, and in fact it is the goal of the best rules writers that they not be at odds at all.
  10. Because I have found a frostlord dies in one round if a real hammer gets the charge if he isn't immune to rend, and 18" or 21" move and charge is more than enough to get anywhere I need to go even late game. If you have an ethereal frostlord, you actually have a great advantage on hero capturing battleplans and can leverage that into a win even against some armies that would normally crush you. It's sort of like why someone would choose morathi over just that many points worth of extra witch aelves: because you get to be real strong on duality, etc.
  11. Despite the necro, Most games of AoS are decided by a priority roll either right then or as the main catalyst event that leads to a win or loss later - a fact that I find very unfortunate, and my main complaint. I think such a crazy swingy mechanic belongs in Open and Narrative play, while Matched should be more about coming up with and following through on a more concrete strategy. There's plenty of granular randomness as it is.
  12. The thermalrider cloak is definitely wrong imo, but I played a few test games with 4 frostlord on stonehorn and there isn't a more fun way to play beastclaw. If you already own them or play test games with friends you should do it, but I always advise against spamming and skew lists when a new book might change everything in the near future.
  13. Agree with what others said, though I'd definitely go Ethereal. The thermalrider cloak seems cool, but it makes staying within 6" for the hit buff even more tempting to ignore. That annoying and restrictive positioning is what caused me to give up on beasthammer after testing - besides not being able to fit enough mournfang for my liking. A wizard+cogs is good to run across the table as is what the army is supposed to do, but man without a cast bonus you're flipping a coin for the main strat your army is trying to pull off. If that cast fails it feels like a really poor use of 200 points. I'd almost say paying 230points on buffs is enough with units as expensive as these, much less the extra 200 from butcher+cogs. Get some more bodies perhaps, or flip that coin like a champ.
  14. @Reuben Parker I went with skull for my second frostlord at dragonfall and it was just okay. It's true though that a cost you pay for using ethereal is that there isn't a great second artefact choice. Did a batrep on my channel for the event, went 3-2. Super fun event. @Brakkus awesome!
  15. Notably it's the often forgotten about other-other-other ability gnarlroot wargrove has in sylvaneth. 'Can't Retreat' generally has no affect on most games, but when it is a problem it can win games if your opponent forgot while planning in earlier turns. It's strong in sylv since they're so tanky as an army, not so much for 3 yhetees, but it isn't nothing. I just think 4 huskards each with a heal plus 3 more yetis for the same price is better is all. Or 3 huskards and 21 yetis! For playing with the models you own, I like your style, and I have some thoughts: I played mainly eurlbad in the dark times (after the huge nerfs but before 2nd edition realm artefacts made bcr kindof playable). While the mortal wounds are painfully infrequent (~1-in-12 attacks proc 1 mw. in other words ~1mw per 2 mournfang in combat, or 1mw from a stonehorn), the one thing I'll say about a Eurlbad is that the Huskard is a beast with +1 damage on all those mount attacks. He parses similar to a frostlord! Doppleganger cloak has been FAQ'd to only work 1/game and so it's not worth taking anymore, sadly. The pelt is just okay. 4/6ths of the outcomes heal him just one wound (1-3 is one, and then 4+ d3 rolling a 1). Some suggestions for alternative combos of 2 artefacts: Ulgu: miasmatic on frostlord, betrayer's crown on huskard (for hordebreaker, or spellmirror if you hate wizards more than massive regiments) Chamon: rune blade on frostlord, argent armour on huskard Aqshy: ignax on frostlord, thermalrider on huskard Newly updated fungoid I don't think is worth taking tbh, and I find quicksilver swords to be underwhelming. You're essentially paying 110 points to straight-roll unbind once he runs into range after turn 1 with no bonuses, and sometimes try for a realm spell. Not the worst, but I'd recommend 2 frost sabers and being 1930 for a command point and a triumph. I really want to stress how huge the triumph is for our army that doesn't have any real buffs. Re-rolling failed hits on a critical frostlord turn is a big deal. rring saves is excellent, and though wounds are the worst result to get, at least it helps fish for eurlbad mortals. As for tactics, I rarely use bellowing voice. The default charge re-rolling command ability is almost always superior since you get to see a result first before deciding to spend the command point - often saving it. BV has you spend it preemptively in the hero phase, something you generally only want to do when 3 units in range are charging at once - which I find rare, but maybe your opponents deploy right up against the line. Mine usually line up at back board edge and then start teleporting everywhere and making wyldwoods or summon a door to hand of dust a frostlord.
  16. Yes. Mount attacks only aren't affected by artefacts and command traits. Battalion effects are fair game.
  17. only costs 1 CP to give a unit of nine 6" run roll is my reasoning. Short answer no I don't. Some are playable sometimes, kinda: Skal is ridiculously expensive considering how overpriced hunter is, but sometimes you run it to give 2nd frostlord an artefact in a 4-beast list and also drop down cats as speed bumps. Braggoth's Beasthammer can steal games against weaker opponents who blunder deployment and also have no chaff when you go second and win a turn 2 double. Otherwise it sucks. Awkward positioning requirements, not enough points for enough mournfang, if you get charged you can't double pile in and also will probably die. Eurlbad makes your huskard as damaging as a frostlord which is cool, but procing mws on 6s to wound is far too infrequent to make mournfang and beastriders worth taking, esp at 170pts. (~1 in 12 attacks proc 1mw, and 2 mournfang have 12 attacks...) If you bring buff things like butcher you are too light on guys that can accept said buffs. Jorlbad makes mournfang at least able to almost keep up with your stonehorn for line breaker which is nice, but they still don't do any damage. It does open up the potential for a plaguetouched warband/gorefist/brass-stampede style strat of 'run across the field, lock their army in the deployment zone, and just sit there grinding while behind them some tiny units are collecting points.' 12 mournfang, butcher, cogs, jorlbad 1980. Issues: cogs is a pure coinflip, butcher is 1-in-3 for the buff t1 and then he's out of range, sucks on many battleplans, isn't tanky enough to deal with competitive armies (gorefist is straight better and no one runs that anymore cuz it doesn't cut it), loses to a lot of counter strats like deepstrikes, teleports, ambushes, etc. Torrbad has no redeeming qualities. Olwyr Alfrostun has some cool bonuses, but it's so expensive it is crazy. An aggressively undercosted sylvaneth mega-battalion this is not. Svard is 2350pts min with 5 monsters. Alfrostun has the most laughable bonus for a 15 thousand point megabattalion: re-roll 2s on the charge lol -- @Calebexnihilo Nice, dude! Duality is the one battleplan that BCR has an advantage in imo
  18. I play very cautiously with my thundertusks most of the time. Possibly too cautiously, but who knows. Maybe I'm too aware of how few guys we have so I'm over protective. What you say is true, however. Our guys are outclassed, so if you enter a fair fight points-wise we'll lose. And spreading out tends to make for fair fights. I have 2 tusks using the buddy system near smaller units and the third off supporting a bigger unit. Though at dragonfall I ran a frostlord on thundertusk with thermalrider (to shoot over citadel woods/wyldwoods since it was an event you could bring your own terrain to) and I played him pretty aggressively. Mostly because he isn't necessarily screwed if he moves out of position to fire, as he can then charge in to do some frost spear attacks to clean up an objective. The rest of the time I've found over-extending to snipe a hero ends up getting your thundertusk killed on the very next turn - and then you traded 340 for 120/160 or whatever which is not a good return. I use them as mobile artillery behind units of yetis to supplement their combat damage with mortal wound fire into whatever they're fighting. This tends to oblige the opponent to make a hard choice - and many times they will keep their buff heroes in awkardly far/out of los positions to keep them safe, but generally their buffs require them to stay close to the unit so a turn afterwards they often fight unbuffed. Other times they decide it's worth it and I shoot the guy in the brain. I like giving my opponents hard choices, as that's the kind of angle shooting we have to do with the options we have. I should say that at the end of the day I decided that thundertusk spam itself just isn't a very viable strat in this meta. Too much mortal wound protection and hordes for already overcosted guys that chart too quickly and can't fight their way out of a paper bag for being a 300+ point behemoth. 1 is fine to unlock yeti battleline, but the real star of bcr is a frostlord with ethereal.
  19. Torrbad does nothing that you want. It requires you to take the worst type of thundertusks (no heal and no decent weapon+better save). It stops people from retreating away from a unit that no one would ever want to retreat from. It obliges you to organize your army in a terrible way considering battleplans have objectives (ie in a big ball so you have a small chance at some mortal wounds), and it costs too many points. And you can't even use the artefact it gives you. And you don't have enough points for enough bodies. It's a trap to be honest. Just upgrading tusks and dropping the battalion is superior in all ways but # of drops - which are not terribly important for a list with this strategy. Something like: 3x huskard on thundertusk 9x yeti 6x yeti 6x yeti 2x cat 2x cat
  20. You fight at the start of the combat phase, then combat proceeds normally. Thus, if it is your turn, you still get the first activation. Notably, however, you can't choose the guy who just attacked, as quicksilver doesn't let you activate the same unit twice.
  21. @Baron Wastelands If they already have mournfang, that's good enough for me, that's the reality of the situation. It then becomes, what's the best way to use the models you already have - let's cook up some lists! Oh, some tactical advice for @GutZilla on yhetees and frost sabers. Have a 2-man unit of sabers babysit your yhetee squad. The cats should charge while the yhetees hang back at 3.1". Then the enemy must activate and kill the cats, thus making sure there is no counterattack when the yhetees pile in later in combat. Also, I think I would always use ethereal amulet on Frostlord.
  22. Yes, that's their main job in my lists where I run them. I've found them superior to mournfang in this role. However, do note that massive regiments are a weakness for BCR in general, and a block of 12 ogor allies will outperform both yhetees and mournfang vs hordes. You slightly missed my point on that though. Yes, all that is a bunch of synergies with mournfang, but you're starting from a place where you're greatly over-paying, and then you're over-paying again for buffs. It doesn't become worth it, it just becomes even more expensive. At the end of the day you end up with a 1,500 point list power-wise that you paid 2,000 points for. Like in a vacuum mournfang that can run&charge and hit on 3s are indeed good. But at 160/2 plus 140 for a butcher that only has a 1-in-3 of working (or 280 for 2 butchers which increases it to 55%) plus 160 for jorlbad plus spending 320 on a weak monster like beastriders plus 340 for a weak hero like huskard on SH you can see how you're just lighting points on fire to get a similar effect that other armies spend 100pts on a hero for. And he's buffing a unit that is already good. Am I saying to sell your mournfang? No! I'm just trying to be realistic about where we currently are - and hoping an incoming new book or GHB changes can let me bring my 12 off the shelf at some point.
  23. 3 don't do enough damage to really affect the game unless you get unreasonably lucky. 6 is fine initially, but after suffering some casualties they become as flaccid as 3. Having 12 is too big of a blob to be as mobile as they like to be (run, pile in. next turn retreat around unit, pile in elsewhere, etc). 9 is the sweet spot, though a tad big to start, with a 6+ save they'll come down in size 120 points of yhetees do about the same damage as 160pts of mournfang (Y: 2-6 vs M: 2-7, on the charge: Y: 2-8 vs M: 3-9 vs armor 4) so actually yhetees out-perform mournfang per point spent. For units of 4 mournfang, on the charge they'll do ~2 more damage than yhetees if all four can get within 1" for mw rolls. If not charging the 4 mournfang will do 30% less damage than their points in yhetees. You are correct that mournfang in 2s are useless though. At least 4 have the chance for you to get lucky and do something. Both units have a move of 9". Mournfang get 3d6 drop lowest to charge, while yhetees can run&charge if within 16" of a thundertusk and can run&pile-in 6" and can retreat&run&pile-in to un-stick themselves. Run rolls can be turned into 6s for a command point so this is a bigger deal than it might seem. They are in fact considerably more mobile than mournfang (unless you're paying another few hundred points for a jorlbad plus taxes, which just worsens the points ratio). Mournfang have a 4+ save which is much better than yhetees 6+ of course, but -1 to hit shuts off many procs, and yhetees essentially have "strike first" power due to piling in from outside 3" and so in many situations they are better defensively as well. Also, consider the number of wounds per point spent as defense as well, since it is. Especially vs mortal wounds. (Y: 10pts/wound vs M: 13.3pts/wound) Yhetees are also twice as good as mournfang at holding objectives due to numbers (you get 8 yhetees for every 4 mournfang). Really they are either straight better or situationally better in every category - which is a shame, since mournfang look cooler by far. Hopefully they will be adjusted in the next GHB with modern points in mind, as they should both be 120 barring warscroll changes. For the same points you would then have a decision between 30% more bodies, faster, and tricks vs a better armor save and more damage on the charge - with same wounds/pt for both; much more of a choice.
  24. FAQ got updated about a year ago I think - in this case anyone can carry anything and a Skal can also be a Bannerbearer and can also be a Horn Blower as long as you model all the stuff on him and don't go over the limits, if any, on the warscroll.
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