AoS 2 - Beastclaw Raiders Discussion

[Chris Tomlin]

Morning all,

Here is the new thread for discussing Beastclaw Raiders. With the imminent release of AoS 2 (and a lot of the info already being out there), now is the time for us to start afresh on TGA.

Moving forward, this will be the main thread to chat about and discuss Beastclaw Raiders in the new edition. I still wholly encourage people to keep their own threads/army blogs within this sub forum and I also think those are a great place to share some photos as I know not everyone frequents the Painting & Modelling section (like me!). But this thread is purely for discussion around the faction, things such as (but not limited to) tactics and list building etc. You all know the drill, we've been doing it on this forum since inception!

For newer players, I would say the older thread could still be worth perusal and whilst it is now locked for further replies, you can find it here - http://www.tga.community/forums/topic/8800-lets-chat-beastclaw-raiders/

Really excited to see what we can come up with as a community and I look forward to reading all your ideas and thoughts.

Chris

[hughwyeth]

So I'm heading to warhammer world in a week or two and I'm hoping to get a load of Ogor kits to complement my BCR. I'm thinking Ogors and ironguts kits which I'll use to try and make a butcher with cauldron out of and one or two ironblaster kits (cos they look fantastic). For magic, probably a Firebelly? I have the fungoid cave shaman too. 

Anyone got any tips on what kits they used to make a custom butcher with cauldron?

Regarding BCR in AoS 2, I think having 2 or more wizards is pretty important, and I might add in some endless spells- anyone else thinking of lists with endless spells yet?

[heywoah_twitch]

52 minutes ago, hughwyeth said:

So I'm heading to warhammer world in a week or two and I'm hoping to get a load of Ogor kits to complement my BCR. I'm thinking Ogors and ironguts kits which I'll use to try and make a butcher with cauldron out of and one or two ironblaster kits (cos they look fantastic). For magic, probably a Firebelly? I have the fungoid cave shaman too. 

Anyone got any tips on what kits they used to make a custom butcher with cauldron?

Regarding BCR in AoS 2, I think having 2 or more wizards is pretty important, and I might add in some endless spells- anyone else thinking of lists with endless spells yet?

I think you're right on track, I used some ogor bits plus an ironblaster to make my own butcher on cauldron and it turned out pretty well-themed (the beast pulling it looks like a young mournfang as well). The problem is you are really pushing the edges of the recommended base size as shown here:

I'm waiting to see the rumored warscroll updates before I dive in on our wizard allies. Before, we wanted an ally wizard 75% for mystic shield and 25% for a 1-in-3 chance at +1 to hit, and so the butcher was the clear choice. Now with mystic shield being real bad (not to mention fortifying hoarfrost already rr1s on saves), I feel far less inclined to include a wizard at all - even though magic got overhauled. Firebelly and Cave Shaman's warscroll spells are both awful, for instance, so really it's just about the endless spell you take, and if that's the case the cheapest one wins easily.

Definitely going to try out all sorts of combinations moving forward regardless. Emerald Lifeswarm's d3 heal is the effect I want most out of all the endless spells, as trying to make thundertusks useful after turn 1 is the sisyphean curse of beastclaw for me, but man 60+wizard-cost for that is a lot when the thing tends to peace-out after the first use.

Edited June 21, 2018 by heywoah_twitch

[hughwyeth]

33 minutes ago, heywoah_twitch said:

I think you're right on track, I used some ogor bits plus an ironblaster to make my own butcher on cauldron and it turned out pretty well-themed (the beast pulling it looks like a young mournfang as well). The problem is you are really pushing the edges of the recommended base size as shown here:

I'm waiting to see the rumored warscroll updates before I dive in on our wizard allies. Before, we wanted an ally wizard 75% for mystic shield and 25% for a 1-in-3 chance at +1 to hit, and so the butcher was the clear choice. Now with mystic shield being real bad (not to mention fortifying hoarfrost already rr1s on saves), I feel far less inclined to include a wizard at all - even though magic got overhauled. Firebelly and Cave Shaman's warscroll spells are both awful, for instance, so really it's just about the endless spell you take, and if that's the case the cheapest one wins easily.

Definitely going to try out all sorts of combinations moving forward regardless. Emerald Lifeswarm's d3 heal is the effect I want most out of all the endless spells, as trying to make thundertusks useful after turn 1 is the sisyphean curse of beastclaw for me, but man 60+wizard-cost for that is a lot when the thing tends to peace-out after the first use.

That looks fantastic! Is the cauldron from the unused scrap launcher in the ironblaster kit?

[heywoah_twitch]

1 minute ago, hughwyeth said:

That looks fantastic! Is the cauldron from the unused scrap launcher in the ironblaster kit?

No, I carved it out of a wooden dowel and greenstuff and filled it with meat and bone bits.

[Gemzo]

3 hours ago, heywoah_twitch said:

I think you're right on track, I used some ogor bits plus an ironblaster to make my own butcher on cauldron and it turned out pretty well-themed (the beast pulling it looks like a young mournfang as well). The problem is you are really pushing the edges of the recommended base size

What is the recommended base size for a butcher with cauldron?   

 

[TheUnknownGuy]

treelord ancient base I guess ?

[Overtyrant of Destruction]

I'm looking forward this for BCR in AoS 2. However I've thought about how it will work best for BCR, we know that the tactic is just to charge asap in the right moment. Frostlord on Stonehorn looks much better thanks to the point cost, Frostlord on Thundertusk is also good for the point too.

My army list I think it will be great in AoS 2 (it isn't for sure yet)
Allegiance: Beastclaw Raiders

Leaders
Frostlord on Stonehorn (420)
- General
- Trait: Everwinter's Master 
- Artefact: Tokens of the Everwinter 
Huskard on Stonehorn (340)
- Blood Vulture
- Artefact: Elixir of Frostwyrm 
Butcher (140)
- Allies
Endless Spells (60)
- Chronomatic Cogs

Battleline
2 x Mournfang Pack (160)
- Gargant Hackers
2 x Mournfang Pack (160)
- Gargant Hackers
Stonehorn Beastriders (320)

Units
6 x Icefall Yhetees (240)

Battalions
Jorlbad (160)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 140 / 400
Wounds: 92

Butcher will cast endless spell cogs so that we will get bonus 2+ to move and charge rolls in the battleplan, value is 7. The general will roll for Everwinter to hope get bonus move 3, otherwise reroll. If all that was successful it will mean that Stonehorn has moved 17 and then they will roll for run. Mournfangs with the battalion Jorlbad which allow them to run and charge, so they have moved  13 and then roll for run. Yhetees has 9 move so with everwinter and cogs they will move 14 instead and then they can roll for run (hope to get pile in within 6"). We will start with 2 command points in the first turn thanks by the battalion, one of units will have At the Double so that the unit will run roll of 6. Another 1 point will use by Frostlord's Bellowing of Voice which allow all units within 18 of him to reroll failed for charge rolls. Mournfang's musician can roll with 3 dices and remove the one lowest dice.

My though about BCR has great possible to charge units in the very first turn.

[James S]

List is nice. A lot depends on rolling that 7 for the Cogs. Turn 1 charges can be devestating if pulled off though!

[Overtyrant of Destruction]

1 hour ago, James S said:

List is nice. A lot depends on rolling that 7 for the Cogs. Turn 1 charges can be devestating if pulled off though!

Yeah! However, I'm waiting and see if Fungoid Cave-Shaman still works to be allied with BCR so I'll take him instead of Butcher and I of course will eat the mushroom to increase the chance for the cogs och also cast Mystic Shield on Frostlord, reroll save on 1s is never bad.

[Overtyrant of Destruction]

On 6/26/2018 at 1:50 PM, Overtyrant of Destruction said:

Yeah! However, I'm waiting and see if Fungoid Cave-Shaman still works to be allied with BCR so I'll take him instead of Butcher and I of course will eat the mushroom to increase the chance for the cogs och also cast Mystic Shield on Frostlord, reroll save on 1s is never bad.

Finally! Fungoid Cave-Shaman will work to be allied with BCR!
https://whc-cdn.games-workshop.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/05/age_of_sigmar_malign_portents_errata_en.pdf

[Gemzo]

Do you think the cave shaman is a better choice than a butcher?  

Thematically, I'd probably take a butcher unless I had at least one unit of some sort of grots. 

[FatherOl'Frosty]

To think about grots - what grots will be better in AoS 2.0? Moonclan or just tiny gnoblars?

[FatherOl'Frosty]

6 hours ago, Gemzo said:

Do you think the cave shaman is a better choice than a butcher?  

Thematically, I'd probably take a butcher unless I had at least one unit of some sort of grots. 

I think yes - at least at this conceipt of list "Charge or Lose" ? 

[PlasticCraic]

15 hours ago, FatherOl'Frosty said:

To think about grots - what grots will be better in AoS 2.0? Moonclan or just tiny gnoblars?

If you're going Mixed (which you'd have to, to bring Moonclan into the conversation) then I'd say that Gitmob archers backed up by a Gitmob Shaman are the best.  350 for the package and it's a really solid Battleline unit.

If you're looking for Beastclaw allies then I do think Gnoblars are a really useful tool.  Most games I think you'll want to start them at the back so they don't get under your feet, and they can run onto objectives later on once there isn't much of either army on the table.  In some games of course they will be a useful screen against the Alpha strike.

[FatherOl'Frosty]

3 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

If you're going Mixed (which you'd have to, to bring Moonclan into the conversation) then I'd say that Gitmob archers backed up by a Gitmob Shaman are the best.  350 for the package and it's a really solid Battleline unit.

If you're looking for Beastclaw allies then I do think Gnoblars are a really useful tool.  Most games I think you'll want to start them at the back so they don't get under your feet, and they can run onto objectives later on once there isn't much of either army on the table.  In some games of course they will be a useful screen against the Alpha strike.

Found 80 gnoblars at my bitz box - was kinda surprized ? During AoS 1.0 never used gnoblars as a ally - only butcher. In new AoS 2.0 do you think usual gobbos with fungiman will do the game? What about their moral etc? As I saw - there is now changes in battleshock phase

[PlasticCraic]

Yeah the Battleshock is always a problem for them.  If you took say 60 plus a Fungoid as allies (350 points all up), that 60 block could be in peril turn one against an Alpha Strike, because you wouldn't have accrued any Command Points (unless you have a Batallion). 

But then again, it means your opponent is pumping their output into a few hundred points of Grots instead of your big lads.  Don't forget that when the first Grot falls, they are on Bravery 9 (4 + 5 extra for 50+ models), so your opponent would have to kill quite a few before it really became an issue.

And as terrible as their attacks are, 180 shooting attacks can be vital against armies like Khorne where you really want output from other phases (and they have average to bad armour saves).  

I think they are a really solid tool in a Stonehorn-based army in particular.  Not auto include, but viable.

[FatherOl'Frosty]

10 minutes ago, PlasticCraic said:

Yeah the Battleshock is always a problem for them.  If you took say 60 plus a Fungoid as allies (350 points all up), that 60 block could be in peril turn one against an Alpha Strike, because you wouldn't have accrued any Command Points (unless you have a Batallion). 

But then again, it means your opponent is pumping their output into a few hundred points of Grots instead of your big lads.  Don't forget that when the first Grot falls, they are on Bravery 9 (4 + 5 extra for 50+ models), so your opponent would have to kill quite a few before it really became an issue.

And as terrible as their attacks are, 180 shooting attacks can be vital against armies like Khorne where you really want output from other phases (and they have average to bad armour saves).  

I think they are a really solid tool in a Stonehorn-based army in particular.  Not auto include, but viable.

You've mentioned 60 grots - how much and how many grot packs with fungi are optimal? 1 pack of 60 + shaman? or? 

[PlasticCraic]

So Grots get better in bigger blocks (more attacks per model) as well as getting cheaper.  They are 100 points per 20, or 270 for 60.  I would personally either take 1x 20 or 1x 60, depending on the rest of your list and how much you are willing to invest. 

A word of warning, a lot of people who've played more BCR than me don't like them!  But I think that's partially because they want a super elite monster army, not a table full of cheap junk.  Which I get.

Also the Butcher is a popular ally, because he synergises with keyword Ogors.  So he is worth considering.

[Sieggi858]

So does anyone have an idea for a semi-decent 1k list? Just got a SC box on an impulse, and have 5 fenrisian wolves I’ll use as saberteeth. 

1250 is also fine if 1k is too much

 

 

[heywoah_twitch]

On 6/28/2018 at 11:15 PM, PlasticCraic said:

A word of warning, a lot of people who've played more BCR than me don't like them!  But I think that's partially because they want a super elite monster army, not a table full of cheap junk.  Which I get.

Confirmed that I don't like them due to pride rather than functionality in lists. Going purely on optimization, I'm struggling to find a better use of 270 ally points than 60 wounds worth of distracting, objective capturing idiots that may draw fire away from the big bois.

My other annoyance is that this starts the slippery slope of honestly taking a look at other choices list-wise, and always ends up with the conclusion that playing gutbusters with 3 or 4 butchers and 60 grots with a single stonehorn ally is just dead to rights superior to beastclaw in any incarnation.

Gutbuster problems simplified: no fast quality unit and no quality long ranged. Allies can fix one, and endless spells can help shore up the other.

Beastclaw problems simplified: no bodies, no buffs, no magic. Allies can help but not fully fix one.

 

solidarity edit:

problems both share: no/bad allegiance kits, overpriced everything, low attack variety, poor utility

Edited July 1, 2018 by heywoah_twitch

[Kessler]

On 7/1/2018 at 11:41 PM, heywoah_twitch said:

Beastclaw problems simplified: no bodies, no buffs, no magic. Allies can help but not fully fix one. 

I just realized that usually we can ally in only 1 unit, because we generally don't have 8 units on the table... Aargh! So no double butchers... 

Edit: Unless unit number limit does not count in matched play. There is no mention of it in GHB. Maybe 400 points replaces the 1/4 rule. 

Edited July 2, 2018 by Kessler

[PlasticCraic]

4 hours ago, Kessler said:

I just realized that usually we can ally in only 1 unit, because we generally don't have 8 units on the table... Aargh! So no double butchers... 

Edit: Unless unit number limit does not count in matched play. There is no mention of it in GHB. Maybe 400 points replaces the 1/4 rule. 

So the bad news: GH Matched Play confirms that the points apply as well as other restrictions (so 1 in 4 is a thing).

But then the good news: Fungoid Cave Shaman is not an Ally.  

Or at least, nobody has been able to demonstrate to me why he is an Ally.

I posted about this in the main AOS 2.0 thread too:

So RAW you can include multiples of him, without breaching the 1 in 4 rule.

[heywoah_twitch]

2 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

But then the good news: Fungoid Cave Shaman is not an Ally.  

So RAW you can include multiples of him, without breaching the 1 in 4 rule.

So which dream is more pure; 4x frostlords or 5x shaman?

[svnvaldez]

5 minutes ago, heywoah_twitch said:

So which dream is more pure; 4x frostlords or 5x shaman?

I played 3 games yesterday with 3x frostlords... Those guys are my favorite unit in the game to play with. So fast.