AoS 2 - Beastclaw Raiders Discussion

[Someone2]

7 hours ago, MKsmash said:

Actually, I disagree. While CP may be slightly more important for using the new generic command abilities, subbing in a couple Fungoids ultimately won't help. Two unbinds isnt enough to stop any magic-based army, so thats not worth it. Endless Spells, especially predatory ones, will ultimately be not worth it. Only the CP would allow Fungoids to be worth it. I think a pure BCR list, not counting the Beast Hammer of course, can still be very competitive without spellcasting.

The fact is, everyone knows BCR are underpowered and not very competitive. Therefore, not as many people know how BCR works. They don't prepare armies to deal with things like 4 Stonehorns. Their underestimating alone can be a huge advantage for us.

We can show others, through simple Alpha Strikes and big-@$$ mammoths , that we are a force to be reckoned with, without the help of unnecessary things such as spells.

Exactly. Ignore magic all together and go all out on an alpha strike.

Made me only lose once with BCR against 6 wins so far. All different lists and includes 1 tournament.

[EMMachine]

On 7/9/2019 at 3:32 PM, Tropical Ghost General said:

I have ordered the model because it a big **** off giant 😂. Is the fungoid still able to be allied in, as it doesn't have any of the keywords for BCR allies from the new GHB19?

@DestructionFranz is most likely referring to this abomination of an Errata from Malign Portents.

Quote

Page 80 – Including Harbingers of the Malign Portents
Add:
‘The ‘Harbingers of the Malign Portents’ rule explains
how to use Lord-Ordinators, Darkoath Warqueens,
Knights of Shrouds and Fungoid Cave-Shamans in
games of Warhammer Age of Sigmar which use the
Malign Portents rules. The following rule can be used
by players who wish to use these models in their armies
in open, narrative or matched play games not using the
Malign Portents rules.
Lord-Ordinators, Darkoath Warqueens, Knights of
Shrouds and Fungoid Cave-Shamans can be included
in any army that shares their Grand Alliance keyword.
They are not treated as part of the player’s army for
the purposes of defining its allegiance and what
allegiance abilities it qualifies for.
Lord-Ordinators, Darkoath Warqueens, Knights of
Shrouds and Fungoid Cave-Shamans can be given a
command trait or artefact of power if they share the
keyword of that army’s allegiance. However, a Lord-
Ordinator, Darkoath Warqueen, Knight of Shrouds
or Fungoid Cave-Shaman can be chosen as the army’s
general even if they do not share the keyword of that
army’s allegiance.
In a Pitched Battle game, the points cost of any Lord-
Ordinator, Darkoath Warqueen, Knight of Shrouds
or Fungoid Cave-Shaman counts against the points
allowance for allied units unless they share the same
keyword as the army’s allegiance.’

It was the biggest mistake GW could have done and didn't changed it during last year.

You can't even buy a physical copy of the book anymore (only ePub) and it still can bypass rules that only should have been part of Malign Portents games.

[Tropical Ghost General]

@EMMachine so is the fungoid an option then? I'm a bit confused, I know that it lacks any keyword required other than 'Destruction' and that it's warscroll has been updated to be in the new gloomspite gitz, which is when I thought it had no longer become an option to take, but is that not the case then? Can this mushroom wizard be taken in any Destruction army then?

[EMMachine]

42 minutes ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

@EMMachine so is the fungoid an option then? I'm a bit confused, I know that it lacks any keyword required other than 'Destruction' and that it's warscroll has been updated to be in the new gloomspite gitz, which is when I thought it had no longer become an option to take, but is that not the case then? Can this mushroom wizard be taken in any Destruction army then?

The Malign Portent Errata still says that the Fungoid Caveshaman can be put in any Destruction Army, and the point Errata is still in use, even without using the Malign Portents book at all. I have quoted the entire thing in the post above. As long as GW doesn't change this the ruling is sadly still in use.

[DestructionFranz]

1 hour ago, EMMachine said:

The Malign Portent Errata still says that the Fungoid Caveshaman can be put in any Destruction Army, and the point Errata is still in use, even without using the Malign Portents book at all. I have quoted the entire thing in the post above. As long as GW doesn't change this the ruling is sadly still in use.

It's not sad. It's always useful to have a little magic ****** in our army.  😀

[DestructionFranz]

12 hours ago, MKsmash said:

Actually, I disagree. While CP may be slightly more important for using the new generic command abilities, subbing in a couple Fungoids ultimately won't help. Two unbinds isnt enough to stop any magic-based army, so thats not worth it. Endless Spells, especially predatory ones, will ultimately be not worth it. Only the CP would allow Fungoids to be worth it. I think a pure BCR list, not counting the Beast Hammer of course, can still be very competitive without spellcasting. 

The fact is, everyone knows BCR are underpowered and not very competitive. Therefore, not as many people know how BCR works. They don't prepare armies to deal with things like 4 Stonehorns. Their underestimating alone can be a huge advantage for us.

We can show others, through simple Alpha Strikes and big-@$$ mammoths , that we are a force to be reckoned with, without the help of unnecessary things such as spells.

Going for an BCR  Alpha Strike army is always risky, especially if you play against an expert player that knows how to protect and screen his crucial models. If you don't kill during the first round for instance Nagash, the Slaughter Queen, or, in general his general  you automatically lose. But of course is an option that has to be considered while playng BCR. Personally I like have much more options to play that just one way. This is because usually I use, in tournaments, a mixed Destruction army but with a big Beastclaws part. (because I like big Monsters) .

 

[EMMachine]

18 minutes ago, DestructionFranz said:

It's not sad.

So it's not sad that a rule of a book that isn't even used in the games basicly ignores most of the rules in case for allegiances.

• That he can be used even if the faction isn't an ally
• he can be general, though he is an ally

It's basicly messes with the rules, creating holes

And Ogors already have 2 wizards that can be allies (Butcher and Firebelly).

[Tropical Ghost General]

12 minutes ago, EMMachine said:

And Ogors already have 2 wizards that can be allies (Butcher and Firebelly).

But neither of them are as cheap or give a 50/50 chance of extra CP each turn or have a 4+ shrug save against everything. Granted that the warscroll spell isn't great but it's still a super cheap caster option for a casterless faction 

[Someone2]

1 hour ago, DestructionFranz said:

Going for an BCR  Alpha Strike army is always risky, especially if you play against an expert player that knows how to protect and screen his crucial models. If you don't kill during the first round for instance Nagash, the Slaughter Queen, or, in general his general  you automatically lose. But of course is an option that has to be considered while playng BCR. Personally I like have much more options to play that just one way. This is because usually I use, in tournaments, a mixed Destruction army but with a big Beastclaws part. (because I like big Monsters) .

 

No auto losses. People just have to try and learn playing the objective game instead of wiping an opponent. I always lose almost my entire army, but manage to win on victory points. We're scary, just seducr your opponent in doing things he shouldn't while you secretely have another agenda

[DestructionFranz]

3 hours ago, EMMachine said:

So it's not sad that a rule of a book that isn't even used in the games basicly ignores most of the rules in case for allegiances.

• That he can be used even if the faction isn't an ally
• he can be general, though he is an ally

It's basicly messes with the rules, creating holes

And Ogors already have 2 wizards that can be allies (Butcher and Firebelly).

I used to use the Butcher but for 140 is a robbery :-)

[Someone2]

So are Beastclaw Raiders slowly phased out or what?

I tried buying a hardback battletome a few months back at a local Games Workshop. Sadly the employee that day told me that had orders to sent them back to England just a week before. Not much later it became softcover battletomes. 

Today I figured I still needed one and wanted to order one and I noticed that the Beastclaw Raider battletome is now a  webshop only product...

Whenever a race is renewed, the battletomes will stay in stores till the new one drops. So I'm afraid this doesn't look good for us BCR players... A mixed Ogor tome hasn't had any rumours yet, nor would that be a good thing since the entire BCR speciality will be lost.

Any thoughts/ideas on this matter?

[Ajay29]

17 minutes ago, Someone2 said:

So are Beastclaw Raiders slowly phased out or what?

I tried buying a hardback battletome a few months back at a local Games Workshop. Sadly the employee that day told me that had orders to sent them back to England just a week before. Not much later it became softcover battletomes. 

Today I figured I still needed one and wanted to order one and I noticed that the Beastclaw Raider battletome is now a  webshop only product...

Whenever a race is renewed, the battletomes will stay in stores till the new one drops. So I'm afraid this doesn't look good for us BCR players... A mixed Ogor tome hasn't had any rumours yet, nor would that be a good thing since the entire BCR speciality will be lost.

Any thoughts/ideas on this matter?

I think the general word on the street at the moment is that an Ogor book isn’t far off. Whether it’s a mixed Ogor/BCR book or not, no idea.

Theres literally nothing to substantiate this rumour but it prevails, it keeps being brought up on forums and there’s a few rumour machine images that COULD be Ogor related so... yeah, I think the model range is safe but who knows when new stuff is going to pop up (certainly after Sylvaneth and Warcry blow over anyway).

[Mogwai Man]

27 minutes ago, Someone2 said:

So are Beastclaw Raiders slowly phased out or what?

I tried buying a hardback battletome a few months back at a local Games Workshop. Sadly the employee that day told me that had orders to sent them back to England just a week before. Not much later it became softcover battletomes. 

Today I figured I still needed one and wanted to order one and I noticed that the Beastclaw Raider battletome is now a  webshop only product...

Whenever a race is renewed, the battletomes will stay in stores till the new one drops. So I'm afraid this doesn't look good for us BCR players... A mixed Ogor tome hasn't had any rumours yet, nor would that be a good thing since the entire BCR speciality will be lost.

Any thoughts/ideas on this matter?

Not phased out. That would mean the product line is being discontinued. Nobody knows if BCR and Gutbusters will merge or if they each get their own battletomes. Even if they get merged keywords can still make them play as separate sub-factions.

Edited July 11, 2019 by Mogwai Man

[DestructionFranz]

8 hours ago, Tropical Ghost General said:

But neither of them are as cheap or give a 50/50 chance of extra CP each turn or have a 4+ shrug save against everything. Granted that the warscroll spell isn't great but it's still a super cheap caster option for a casterless faction 

I totally agree with you. 

Moreover Stonehorns and Thundertusks suffer against hordes, with Mork's Mighty Mushroom (casted by Fungoid Cave Shaman) you can deal with those kind of armies. 

[DestructionFranz]

2 hours ago, Someone2 said:

So are Beastclaw Raiders slowly phased out or what?

I tried buying a hardback battletome a few months back at a local Games Workshop. Sadly the employee that day told me that had orders to sent them back to England just a week before. Not much later it became softcover battletomes. 

Today I figured I still needed one and wanted to order one and I noticed that the Beastclaw Raider battletome is now a  webshop only product...

Whenever a race is renewed, the battletomes will stay in stores till the new one drops. So I'm afraid this doesn't look good for us BCR players... A mixed Ogor tome hasn't had any rumours yet, nor would that be a good thing since the entire BCR speciality will be lost.

Any thoughts/ideas on this matter?

No worries BCR and maybe Ogors will appear very soon with a new Battletome. (Looking at the pictures in the Rumours Tread)

[PlasticCraic]

13 hours ago, Ajay29 said:

I think the general word on the street at the moment is that an Ogor book isn’t far off. Whether it’s a mixed Ogor/BCR book or not, no idea.

Theres literally nothing to substantiate this rumour but it prevails, it keeps being brought up on forums and there’s a few rumour machine images that COULD be Ogor related so... yeah, I think the model range is safe but who knows when new stuff is going to pop up (certainly after Sylvaneth and Warcry blow over anyway).

It's still just a rumour, BUT...there has been a big influx into the Gutbusters WhatsApp group recently.  And spme of those are "people who know people".  Obviously this confirms nothing, but it is another pointer.

It's gone from being a small, friendly group of people sharing photos of barbecued meat to being a fairly large group of people looking on with bemusement at long term members of the chat sharing photos of barbecued meat.  And occasionally their bellies.

[Kyriakin]

On 7/12/2019 at 12:30 PM, PlasticCraic said:

It's still just a rumour, BUT...there has been a big influx into the Gutbusters WhatsApp group recently.  And spme of those are "people who know people".  Obviously this confirms nothing, but it is another pointer.

It's gone from being a small, friendly group of people sharing photos of barbecued meat to being a fairly large group of people looking on with bemusement at long term members of the chat sharing photos of barbecued meat.  And occasionally their bellies.

It didn't even know that Gutbusters players had discovered fire yet. Good on them...

[PlasticCraic]

On 7/9/2019 at 11:34 PM, MKsmash said:

In that case, you would have to do Mixed Destruction. If you absolutely wanted a Wizard with BCR than you could ally in a Butcher.

Good idea on the Giant. If you want to use it try out: Triple Bang: The Monster Mash They Never Saw Coming - The Honest ...

Unfortunately that list is completely dead mate (I wrote it).  It was really strong at the time, because it was effectively Activation Wars before Activation Wars were a thing.

First they nerfed Doppelganger Cloak (which was fair enough).  The list still worked fine even as a one-use artefact. 

Then they changed the Fungoid Cave Shaman’s warscroll extensively.  At that point I revisited the list because the retreat and charge mechanic on the Maw Krusha was a key part of the tech.

I then ran a very different version of the list at Lord of War last month (66 player GT in Melbourne), and went 4-1. 

However….that event took place the day the new GH came out, and Gitmob have now been removed from the game which finally kills it entirely. 

It’s a shame, because I had been really enjoying running aggressive Mixed Destruction.

[Someone2]

So a little while ago I promised to post pictures of my beastclaw raiders with full contrast paints. Have to admit that the metal parts and the eyes were regular paint, but here is the first model. Only basing has to be done still.

Will upload some pictures in a couple of weeks when I got a few units and all based up

[MKsmash]

On 7/14/2019 at 6:18 PM, PlasticCraic said:

Unfortunately that list is completely dead mate (I wrote it).  It was really strong at the time, because it was effectively Activation Wars before Activation Wars were a thing.

First they nerfed Doppelganger Cloak (which was fair enough).  The list still worked fine even as a one-use artefact. 

Then they changed the Fungoid Cave Shaman’s warscroll extensively.  At that point I revisited the list because the retreat and charge mechanic on the Maw Krusha was a key part of the tech.

I then ran a very different version of the list at Lord of War last month (66 player GT in Melbourne), and went 4-1. 

However….that event took place the day the new GH came out, and Gitmob have now been removed from the game which finally kills it entirely. 

It’s a shame, because I had been really enjoying running aggressive Mixed Destruction.

Wow, you wrote that?

Then let me congratulate you. I always thought it was very good.

[PlasticCraic]

1 hour ago, MKsmash said:

Wow, you wrote that?

Then let me congratulate you. I always thought it was very good.

Thanks man!  I enjoyed doing the Rundown, also really enjoyed running the list in its various iterations.  

I know a lot of BCR players don't want Gnoblars running around their ankles, because they want the super elite monster riders list (which is fair enough).

But for me personally, I love a Destruction army to look like a rabble, with a combination of big monsters and swarming gits.  I like that particular aesthetic as much as the play style - for Destro I personally find it very thematic.

[MKsmash]

23 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Thanks man!  I enjoyed doing the Rundown, also really enjoyed running the list in its various iterations.  

I know a lot of BCR players don't want Gnoblars running around their ankles, because they want the super elite monster riders list (which is fair enough).

 But for me personally, I love a Destruction army to look like a rabble, with a combination of big monsters and swarming gits.  I like that particular aesthetic as much as the play style - for Destro I personally find it very thematic.

Honestly, i wish I cared that much. I never was one for narrative-type armies.

Only an insatiable desire to win....

With Destruction...

*sigh*

[PlasticCraic]

Haha.  Well I think a combination of Moonclan Grots and a Frostlord on Stonehorn would still be very strong - basically what @Donal used to run, but it's maybe not quite as good now that Fanatics have been "changed" / nerfed after the GG book dropped.  You could def still win games with it though.

I still like the idea of a Firestorm army with allied Troggoth Hag, albeit she is nowhere near as good without an artefact.

You've also got Tom's old list (starring double Magma Dragon and a Frostlord on Stonehorn) which would be very viable - Battleline was minimum Orcs.

None of those archetypes depended on Gitmob Grots in the way mine did, so they could be worth exploring?

Edit: maybe this conversation should move to the Mixed Destruction chat at this point?  Happy to continue the conversation in there!

Edited July 17, 2019 by PlasticCraic

[MKsmash]

22 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

Haha.  Well I think a combination of Moonclan Grots and a Frostlord on Stonehorn would still be very strong - basically what @Donal used to run, but it's maybe not quite as good now that Fanatics have been "changed" / nerfed after the GG book dropped.  You could def still win games with it though.

I still like the idea of a Firestorm army with allied Troggoth Hag, albeit she is nowhere near as good without an artefact.

You've also got Tom's old list (starring double Magma Dragon and a Frostlord on Stonehorn) which would be very viable - Battleline was minimum Orcs.

None of those archetypes depended on Gitmob Grots in the way mine did, so they could be worth exploring?

Edit: maybe this conversation should move to the Mixed Destruction chat at this point?  Happy to continue the conversation in there!

Sure!

Also, what @Donal did was amazing. Very viable.

[Diablo]

I love Beastclaw Raiders, they are my favorite Race right now,  but I have made the mistake that I have built too many Thundertusk , i have 3 Thundertusk  and only one Frostlord on Stonehorn  and the Frostlord on Stonehorn  is my second favorit ( first is the Abhorrant Ghoul King on Royal Terrorgheist ) Unit in the AOS Game, but I have already bought a new start collecting box  ;D