AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Malakithe]

All im seeing is run MSU Brutes all day, errrday

[tolstedt]

Did another game with IJ today

Allegiance: Destruction
Mortal Realm: Ulgu

Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork 
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Trait: Live to Fight 
- Artefact: Sword of Judgement 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)

Battleline

Units
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)

Battalions
Ardfist (170)

Endless Spells
Purple Sun of Shyish (100)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 154

Opponent had 1 frostlord on stonehorn w/ethereal amulet, 3 stonehorn beast riders, 2x3 yetis, 2 butchers w/ cauldron, geminids, lifeswarm

He tabled me but I won.  Bringing back the ardboyz is a lot of fun and has potential to slow them down for a long time.

The purple sun does so much damage to big monsters.  100 points might be too expensive.

[Ravinsild]

Hey guys, I just have a quick question as a new Ironjawz player: 

what is the best weapons configuration for our models? 

Right now I have 3 Gore-Gruntas with Pig Iron Choppas.

I also have 2 x 5 Brutes each with a boss Klaw and smasher, a Gore-Choppa and dual-wielding blades.

Then I have 15 ‘Ardboys and almost all of them have dual-wielding except I have 2 Standard Bearers, 2 Drummers, 2 bosses and 1 guy with a big-Choppa. 

My Megaboss on Mawkrusha has the one Choppa and then the Rip-tooth fist. 

Are my loadouts suboptimal? I’m planning on getting 3 more Weirdknob Warband skirmish boxes for another 15 Ardboys and Brutes each, in addition to some start collecting boxes for Gore-Gruntas later on. 

Ive seen a lot of debate about the sizes of units as well anywhere from 10 and only 10 Ardboys to 30 being optimal and I’ve read either 10 Brutes with the 2” weapons or 5 brutes dual wielding and which ones to take and when and why. 

Anyway, thanks for all the insight I’ve read this entire thread and most of the previous one which is now closed to try and find a good list to work toward and tactics to help me win more than lose

[Superninja]

You seem to have everything pretty spot on.  Brutes, gruntas, and mawkrusha all 'optimal'.

MAGNETIZE WEAPON OPTIONS!!

Dual wielding for ardboys in situations where a -1 rend is ignored or dealt with easily (ironbreakers/Seraphon shields/etc). 

If the -1 rend from big choppas would be useful then go for that.  (Extra attacks from Waagh!/Voice of Gork are considered generally better with -1 rend)

 Malakree has a great run down of weapon setups for ardboys and brutes and situations to switch them.

[Ravinsild]

17 minutes ago, Superninja said:

You seem to have everything pretty spot on.  Brutes, gruntas, and mawkrusha all 'optimal'.

MAGNETIZE WEAPON OPTIONS!!

Dual wielding for ardboys in situations where a -1 rend is ignored or dealt with easily (ironbreakers/Seraphon shields/etc). 

If the -1 rend from big choppas would be useful then go for that.  (Extra attacks from Waagh!/Voice of Gork are considered generally better with -1 rend)

 Malakree has a great run down of weapon setups for ardboys and brutes and situations to switch them.

Ah thanks for the answers! Well, I don’t play in Tournaments and I’m not positive I ever really will, because I’ve often found Tournament lists lacking in flair or personality so it shouldn’t be a problem at the local GW store if not everything is exactly as WYSIWYG as possible. 

 

Glad to know ive done well and my research has proven to be accurate! Appreciate the quick response

[Skabnoze]

Honestly, I don’t think any of the equipment options for any of the units in Ironjawz are poor enough that you will have many bad play experiences in standard games. A lot of what you read on here are people trying to squeeze the maximum optimization out of lists.

You should have a fun time with all the units that you own.

[Ravinsild]

47 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

Honestly, I don’t think any of the equipment options for any of the units in Ironjawz are poor enough that you will have many bad play experiences in standard games. A lot of what you read on here are people trying to squeeze the maximum optimization out of lists.

You should have a fun time with all the units that you own.

That’s the plan. Another model I want to use a list for is just Gordrakk himself. I don’t think he is tournament competitive but the novel Fury of Gork made me love him. So now I want to use him somehow. 

[Malakree]

3 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

That’s the plan. Another model I want to use a list for is just Gordrakk himself. I don’t think he is tournament competitive but the novel Fury of Gork made me love him. So now I want to use him somehow. 

He absolutely is tournament competitive. You run him with a gorefist for a vicious alphastrike.

 

Is the post being referenced. Be aware that it is now dated and some of it is no longer correct. Ie. The multiple moves from the ij allegiance.

[Imperial]

Just found 1 more restriction.... 1 allied unit per 4 in main list.... goodbye 3-4 grot artillery... 

[Izikail]

Im not sure why they have the restrictions. To top armies are doing fine without allies cus there the top armies. The lower tier armies need some allie support but are having it removed

[Imperial]

My list for today vs Tzeentch:

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
- Artefact: Lens of Refraction 
- Allies
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (80)
- General
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
- Allies
Gordrakk The Fist of Gork (580)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline
9 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (420)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)

Units
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)

Battalions
Gorefist (190)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 1970 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 220 / 400
Wounds: 120
 

[DerZauberer]

Mortal Realm: Is this official now?

Is it part of pitched battle games, competitive and all alike? My Intention was it's only for narrative and open play games?

So how exactly does this whole realm stuff work in competitive / matched play games, as far as I know, there are two sources with "alterations" to the normal game:

• Mortal Realm where the battle takes place in.
  Special rules for the battlefield, similar to the ones from GHB17.
  • I think those will not be used and are only for narrative games? As those alter the game quite heavily, e.g. setting up neutral Monsters hunting each other.
     
• Mortal Realm where your army originates from.
  Artefacts, Spell Lores and Command Traits which can be chosen instead of your allegiance Artefacts, Spells and Command Traits.
  • Those seem to be pitched battle usable? The new Warscroll Builder has the option to choose and modify your list with a Mortal Realm.

I know it's maybe a bit too early as TO could easily disallow those rules, but I'm curious due to being a option in the warscroll builder (which is designed for pitched battle army lists).

[Imperial]

3 minutes ago, DerZauberer said:

Mortal Realm: Is this official now?

Is it part of pitched battle games, competitive and all alike? My Intention was it's only for narrative and open play games?

So how exactly does this whole realm stuff work in competitive / matched play games, as far as I know, there are two sources with "alterations" to the normal game:

• Mortal Realm where the battle takes place in.
  Special rules for the battlefield, similar to the ones from GHB17.
  • I think those will not be used and are only for narrative games? As those alter the game quite heavily, e.g. setting up neutral Monsters hunting each other.
     
• Mortal Realm where your army originates from.
  Artefacts, Spell Lores and Command Traits which can be chosen instead of your allegiance Artefacts, Spells and Command Traits.
  • Those seem to be pitched battle usable? The new Warscroll Builder has the option to choose and modify your list with a Mortal Realm.

I know it's maybe a bit too early as TO could easily disallow those rules, but I'm curious due to being a option in the warscroll builder (which is designed for pitched battle army lists).

Mortal Realm part of core rules now so i dont see any reason why i cant use it in pitched battle. 

[Superninja]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

Be aware that it is now dated and some of it is no longer correct. Ie. The multiple moves from the ij allegiance. 

Malakree, can we not activate the Mighty Destroyers on the same unit multiple times? 

Or are you saying that because of the 'wholly within' now?  So after an activation or 2, the unit would clearly not be wholly within anymore.

Just wondering, don't want to fudge it up.

 

[Malakree]

4 minutes ago, Superninja said:

Malakree, can we not activate the Mighty Destroyers on the same unit multiple times? 

Or are you saying that because of the 'wholly within' now?  So after an activation or 2, the unit would clearly not be wholly within anymore.

Just wondering, don't want to fudge it up.

The second as the idea before was with a unit of 30 you could trail your shield boys out behind and still trigger the second or 3rd move on them. So getting 18" move off the IJ proc. Now it's going to be hard to trigger even one proc on a unit of 30 because all it takes is one of the models bases to be slightly out of the 12" and you can't proc it on them.

It's obviously intended to stop exactly that but it's another of the nerfs by proxy to the max squad Ardboys.

Consider before you have 15 2h and 15 Shields, you have the damage half of the unit spread out in a line 30" at the front of your deployment zone, you then have the shield boys grouped up next to the hero block. Before you would trigger the furthest away hero and then move the whole squad 6" forward but leave one boy in range of the other heroes while tailing out the other shield boys. Repeat this continuously to have the front line move 18" forward (edge case) then trigger the Ironfist move, then move normally then make a charge with +3 (IJ/Drummer). 

Your squad just engaged a whole portion of the enemy line. Then you start taking casulties and making the saves with the shields and just remove from the back so that after the first 10 boys have died you have a contiguous unit again focused around that front line.

When I lay it out like that it definitely seems ridiculous but it was part of what made the 30 strong squad good. In the same situation now you couldn't even trigger the first 6" move because your line is so wide it doesn't fit in the aura.

[Superninja]

Ty for the response Malakree.

[Rock Lobster]

The fungoid cave shamans command ability seems really solid for IronJawz seems really solid with the normal move for our destruction roll, such a shame he has to be the general.

The idea of character sniping by throwing gordrak forward 24" plus 2D6 for runs, plus a charge if your destruction triggers is really funny - 39" average, 45" if you get the cogs going. That would be a nasty surprise for someone if they left their general on the back of the board improperly screened because they are 'safe'.

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Rock Lobster said:

The fungoid cave shamans command ability seems really solid for IronJawz seems really solid with the normal move for our destruction roll, such a shame he has to be the general.

The idea of character sniping by throwing gordrak forward 24" plus 2D6 for runs, plus a charge if your destruction triggers is really funny - 39" average, 45" if you get the cogs going. That would be a nasty surprise for someone if they left their general on the back of the board improperly screened because they are 'safe'.

Interesting fact, so under "Running" it says you add it to the movement characteristic for "that movement" phase. So this means if you trigger the Ironjawz movement twice on a single unit in a single phase you could run the first time, adding D6 (call it X), so your move characteristic is now 12"+X" then when you trigger it the second time, and run, you now roll a D6 (say Y) and add it to your move characteristic. That characteristic is now (12+X)"+Y".

So you double up the distance on your first run movement.

Combine that with the auto-6 from a CP and you have a MK going 18" followed by 18+d6" in the hero phase. theoretically you could have the cabbage sprint across the board into range of the fungoid so it can then charge.

There's also the old "Charge in Hero Phase + Fungoid CA + Charge in Charge phase" stuff which is so gross.

Seems filthy.

[Izikail]

So just a thought. If we just wait 3 years maybe it will become the age of destruction and distruction will be the major focus. We have akready had the age of chaos and the age of death

[Malakree]

4 minutes ago, Izikail said:

So just a thought. If we just wait 3 years maybe it will become the age of destruction and distruction will be the major focus. We have akready had the age of chaos and the age of death

It would be Age of Order first

[Skabnoze]

9 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

That’s the plan. Another model I want to use a list for is just Gordrakk himself. I don’t think he is tournament competitive but the novel Fury of Gork made me love him. So now I want to use him somehow. 

Gordrakk unlocks probably half of the shenanigans available to Destruction as a whole currently (not just Ironjawz).  I would not rule out how useful he can be.

[gnaleinad]

Oh, Age of Waaagh!

34 minutes ago, Malakree said:

It would be Age of Order first

I think age of myths was the age of order.. 

The entire series WARHAMMER is named after Sigmar's hammer, which was meant to kill orcs. Sigmar first got famous killing orcs. Orcs were the most numerous enemy of human when Warhammer started.

They are paying homage to a lot of the original work of Warhammer Fantasy. Sigmar and King of Dwarf => Sigmar and Grungni. 

If they would actually care to pay homage to Orruk in the current lore let them be more threatening. 

Sadly i believe destruction will continue to be disturbance, white noise, fillers, comic relief for the lore. ?

Still remember the legendary Grimgor Ironhide awesome smacking of Archaon, humiliation of the everchosen. So many of my friends were overjoyed with that development.

But GW wish all to forget something that so many people fondly remembers.

[Skabnoze]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Combine that with the auto-6 from a CP and you have a MK going 18" followed by 18+d6" in the hero phase. theoretically you could have the cabbage sprint across the board into range of the fungoid so it can then charge.

There's also the old "Charge in Hero Phase + Fungoid CA + Charge in Charge phase" stuff which is so gross.

Seems filthy.

That will probably be difficult to actually pull off in a game, unless it was late game, since the command ability requires you to be wholly within range of the Fungoid Shaman at the start of the charge phase. 

[Skabnoze]

45 minutes ago, gnaleinad said:

Sadly i believe destruction will continue to be disturbance, white noise, fillers, comic relief for the lore. ?

Still remember the legendary Grimgor Ironhide awesome smacking of Archaon, humiliation of the everchosen. So many of my friends were overjoyed with that development.

But GW wish all to forget something that so many people fondly remembers.

To be fair, as long as I have played this game the Orcs & Goblins have mostly been fairly faceless background threats and white noise.  Even the Storm of Chaos worldwide campaign where Grimgor defeated Archaon was retconned to not have happened (the whole campaign).

Almost every greenskin warlord was either confined to some past glory and was no longer alive or active in the current timeline (Grom, Gorbad Ironclaw, Morglum Necksnapper, Azhag the Slaughterer, etc), or else they were confined to a very specific geographic area that had little bearing on the rest of the world (Skarsnik).  The main exception to that was Grimgor and even he was not overly active in shaping the main storyline.  He was mostly confined to semi-silly antics and rampages that did not effect major areas or storylines much.  When he did interact with anyone he pretty much played the role of the spoiler that inconvenienced the main movers in the story.

Anyways, my point is that Orcs & Goblins have always been mainly background filler.  It might not be the most fun thing to admit for a faction that you love, but it is the truth.

On the bright side, Age of Sigmar has made some changes and set some things up that may make Destruction more prominent.  They finally expanded Black Orcs into a full army with the Ironjawz.  Ironjawz are simply the Old World concept of Black Orcs taken to the extreme - as is often the case with Age of Sigmar armies.  Savage Orcs went from a niche subfaction into their own full dedicated army.  The rumors are strongly leaning to Moonclan getting a full dedicated Battletome and that will be the first time that Goblins have been moved out of a highly niche, fan-favorite, relatively non-competitive subfaction and into a full dedicated army.  I can't really understate what a huge shift that would be for Orcs & Goblins.

I honestly don't feel that GW will ignore Destruction indefinitely for Age of Sigmar.  Bear in mind that they tore down the old game and shifted everything into a wholly new setting - and that launch was not as smooth as it could have been.  There was a time when it was not clear if Age of Sigmar would manage to last as a full product or whether it would fail.  They quickly cranked out some factions (Destruction got some love back then) when they were trying to get the game on it's feet and once the got some real traction they put a fair amount of their efforts into Chaos and Order.  Honestly, concentrating on that slice of Good & Evil was probably a smart decision.  Right now they seem to be in the middle of fleshing out Death.  My guess is that they will move to Destruction once they have shored up Death a bit and they will continue to sprinkle in Order & Chaos along the way.

Age of Sigmar is only about 3 years old now and there have been longer periods where there were zero updates to Orcs & Goblins.  Just be patient.

[James S]

1 hour ago, Skabnoze said:

Gordrakk unlocks probably half of the shenanigans available to Destruction as a whole currently (not just Ironjawz).  I would not rule out how useful he can be.

Definitely need a battalion to make it work. I can't see the cost of him for a once a game ability on a single unit. I hope to see more of him and stompy IJ this edition.