AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[broche]

7 hours ago, Backbreaker said:

If I remember correctly, Ironsunz help against shooting (and shooting doesn't work well in 2nd ed) and boosts your MK ...

I'm not a huge fan of Ardboys but it's true that big unit of them would benefit from the bravery buff.

Could you share your list ? How did you do there ?  

it's -1 to hit in the 1st battle round (on a 3+).  Bravery is much of less of an issue, as you can take Tooth or Skewer anyway. +1 to charge is not bad, but -1 to hit have more much impact on the game state.

Went 3-2. Had 3 tough match on day 1, barely loss game 2 on a 50-50 situation on last round (after I let a huge take back to the guys in turn 1, he felt bad and wanted to give me the win at the end) and  game 3 on 25-75 situation. A bit sad cause then i just rolled on my last 2 games. I felt the list have at least a 50-50 matchup agains anything but Undead.

 

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Daubing of Mork 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
- Artefact: The Golden Toof 
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
Ironfist (180)
Ironsunz (120)

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 90 / 400
Wounds: 130
 

[tolstedt]

19 hours ago, EatMyPanini said:

Just realized that no one cares about ardfist, but wouldn’t it even be a bit good with a unit of 30-or-so Ardboys to just pop out of nowhere? I mean it’s a sure thing that if your Warchanter get sniped you’re screwed, but with some gore-gruntas you could try (like really just try) to destroy enemy snipers before anything too bad happens, and if you screen him with the remaining 2 units of 10 Ardboys of the battalion he should be ok. I may also be totally off the spot as I haven’t played any game since i’m painting my hundreds dollars of units.

anyway, may the Waaagh! be with you and good morning, evening, night or any other time of the day you’re going trought

I run the ardfist.  You will never have 30 die and be ready to come back.  I run 5x10.  The most I ever got back is three units.  It's not good if you can't get your warchanter to the other side of the board.  The only map I had success on is starstrike.  It is also good in the realm of shadow where you can bring the warchanter to the other side of the board before bringing the units back.

[Backbreaker]

46 minutes ago, broche said:

it's -1 to hit in the 1st battle round (on a 3+).  Bravery is much of less of an issue, as you can take Tooth or Skewer anyway. +1 to charge is not bad, but -1 to hit have more much impact on the game state.

Did you see a lot of combat/shooting during first round ? Even if it's happen, it's not automatic, having to roll for this bonus is a downside for me. As for the bravery, It frees an artefact for something like lens of refraction, ...

I decided to listen to your advice and add arboyz, two units of ten (I removed one unit of gruntas and on of brutes). My list is now 141 wounds with save 4+, I lost a bit of fighting power but I think that our power relies on Waaagh! and not on our units statlines.

I'm still wondering about bringing a weirdnob shaman instead of one warchanter. He will be there to cast mystic shield and deny an endless spell like gemini/shackles. But I have to remove one more unit of brutes for another unit of gruntas. What do you guys think ?

[broche]

i fought during round 1 in every game

weirnob was a last minute addition for realm spell. I manage a 15 mortal foot on game 5 as well, so he did the job 

[trarux]

so what do u guys think is the odds of a new Ironjawz battletome this year ? and what changes do you want in that case to make them a bit more competative 

[Malakree]

49 minutes ago, trarux said:

so what do u guys think is the odds of a new Ironjawz battletome this year ? and what changes do you want in that case to make them a bit more competative 

I'd say pretty low if I'm honest. If I had to guess the battletomes.

Sylvaneth, darkoath, aelves, free people's, seraphon, slannesh, ogors. Probably 2/3 new releases to go with them.

EDIT: Oh and this year's stormcast releases alongside the darkoath.

Edited February 14, 2019 by Malakree

[Malakithe]

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

I'd say pretty low if I'm honest. If I had to guess the battletomes.

Sylvaneth, darkoath, aelves, free people's, seraphon, slannesh, ogors. Probably 2/3 new releases to go with them.

EDIT: Oh and this year's stormcast releases alongside the darkoath.

Not cool man...not cool

[Rock Lobster]

6 hours ago, trarux said:

so what do u guys think is the odds of a new Ironjawz battletome this year ? and what changes do you want in that case to make them a bit more competative 

I have to agree with Malakree, I would give it 0-1% chance. However this is not a bad thing. The gloomspite gits waited and got a whole load of new kits, flesh eaters got a quick turnaround on their book and only on new model with the release.

I would prefer a release next year with a couple of new units to give the army more fleixbility. Ironjawz are a very popular range and GW will know they can stick a couple of new units in one of those battle boxes with another faction ahead of the book release and sell a ton. Small chance, but I would not rule out that battle box being released Christmas this year with a book next year if they do have models underway. Perhaps Ironjawz and the light elves would be cool in a set :D.

[Luzgurbel]

My 2 cents on guessing the battletomes for this year:

-Slaanesh.

-Free People (with Devoted of Sigmar and Ironweld Arsenal).

-Kharadron Overlords (maybe with Disposessed?)

-Aelf Battletome, with the old Dark and High Elves together?

-Slaves to Darkness, maybe with Darkoath?

-Ogor battletome, with Gutbusters, BCR and Maneaters all together (again), like Gloomspite battletome does.

[PlasticCraic]

I wouldn't be surprised to see us get one, I'm a little more optimistic than the other posters here.  We have a long track history of being proactively shafted compared to armies like Sylvaneth, whom GW has gone out of their way to support; but I do think we will be part of the wave of updates.

I have no sound basis for this other than blind optimism!

I do find it frustrating that they have announced a 3rd Khorne Battletome.  That should have been our book.  But watcha gonna do? 

[Malakree]

22 minutes ago, Luzgurbel said:

-Kharadron Overlords (maybe with Disposessed?)

I doubt they will rerelease KO. The models are to recent as is the battletome. 

23 minutes ago, Luzgurbel said:

-Slaves to Darkness, maybe with Darkoath?

I actually think it will be a "Darkoath" of which gets Everchosen and Slaves to darkness rolled in. Basically the undivided  mortal units.

Carrion Empire is interesting because it updates the older style rules update.

1. New Faction - Idoneth
2. Faction Re-release - Gloomspite/DoK
3. Faction Update - Now with an adversarial box set.

So if we look at the complete faction lists found on the GW webstore.

Spoiler

 

Order
Aelves, DoK, Dispossessed, Free Peoples, Fyreslayers, IDK, KO, Seraphon, Stormcast, Sylvaneth.

Chaos
Beasts of Chaos, Khorne, Creatures of Chaos, Tzeentch, Everchosen and Slaves to Darkness, Slaanesh, Nurgle, Skaven.

Death
Flesh-eater Courts, LoN, Nighthaunt

Destruction
Beastclaw, Bonesplitterz, Gloomspite, Gutbusters, Ironjawz

 

This highlights all the factions listed which currently don't have their own books. So if we look at that we get a very initial list of "definite" releases. The sole exception being Creatures of Chaos which only has the Furies, Be'lakor and Soul Grinder which aren't actually in another book already.

• Aelves
• Dispossessed
• Free Peoples
• Everchosen and Slaves to Darkness
• Slaanesh
• Gutbusters

So if we go through the list and look at the likely "releases" for each of them.

Aelves - Wide range of models which are split across the various model types. This is clearly going to be a Faction Update type book.
Dispossessed - Small range which are all multipart plastic. Re-release, it's to beloved for them to disband with no other Duardin Overlap.
Free Peoples - Wide range with several disparate themes. Faction Update.
Everchosen and Slaves to Darkness - Darkoath - no doubts here.
Slaanesh - We know there's a book coming for them. Faction Re-release.
Gutbusters - Actually a very limited and outdated range. Ogors being Reboxed hints at a Faction Re-release.

So that gives us 4 expected Faction updates coming this year (Dispossessed, Darkoath, Slaanesh and Gutbusters) of which the two chaos ones are imminent. Aelves and Free Peoples will probably get a book but nothing else. So based on a monthly release schedule we have around 5 months of releases, six with the Stormcast Summer release. That puts us into August. Add in 2 new factions (no way they aren't coming) and that's 

So no I don't think we will be getting a book update this year. Not unless we end up as the Stormcast foes of the year (a potential).

[PlasticCraic]

29 minutes ago, Malakree said:

That puts us into August. Add in 2 new factions (no way they aren't coming)

Good analysis Malakree, but I think that's the leap.

My belief is that with the 40k Dexes pretty much done, it will be full steam ahead on cranking out books for existing factions, some of them with model updates.  Similar to what 40k has had.

I don't think it's a certainty that we will get 2 new factions this year. 

[tolstedt]

What if it's an Ironjawz vs. Gutbusters box?

I would split a green log.

[Malakithe]

I wouldnt discount newer guys like KO getting a 2.0 update. If SCE and Khorne are any indications. The factions that are left without books might get rolled into existing ones that get reworked. Take it another step further and things like Free People and Dispossessed might get rolled into a LoN style Alliance Free Cities type book since they all co-exist anyway. 

I can see whats left of Creatures of Chaos being rolled into Slaves/Everchosen/Darkoath. 

Fryeslayers will get its own rework. Slaanesh is coming. There is no way BCR isnt getting a rework. Might even seen the rest of the Ogors rolled into BCR. Bonesplitterz need a reword. Even Tzeentch can use a rework. Everything is pretty much on the table right now. The only releases that will take more then 2ish weeks will be ones that get new models. Which most wont. 

[novakai]

I believe in LVO they basically confirm Sylvaneath are getting a new BT which may also suggest that a KO maybe getting a new tome also based on the Nightvault releases

So far though, it looks like every army release  came with a new hero unit, so at least there is that.

TBH I could Ironjawz getting a tome in Orktober just so GW can disappoint us again and release in november

 

[Hammbone18]

Okay so I just started getting back into the hobby. Love AoS so far and saw the Ardfist discussion. It got me thinking this could be fun to take to a tournament. That being said I plan on taking this list to a tournament I have coming up. What do you guys think??  Thanks for any feedback!

++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Destruction - Ironjawz) [1980pts] ++

+ Leader +

Orruk Megaboss [140pts]: 1. Armour of Gork, General

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman [120pts]: 3. Daubing of Mork

+ Battalion +

Battalion: Ardfist [1050pts]
. Orruk Ardboys: 2x 10 Ardboys, Standard Bearer (Orruk), Waaagh! Drummer
. Orruk Ardboys: 10 Ardboys, Standard Bearer (Orruk), Waaagh! Drummer
. Orruk Ardboys: 10 Ardboys, Standard Bearer (Orruk), Waaagh! Drummer
. Orruk Ardboys: 10 Ardboys, Standard Bearer (Orruk), Waaagh! Drummer
. Orruk Warchanter: 2. Thermalrider Cloak

Battalion: Gorefist [610pts]
. Orruk Gore-Gruntas: 3 Gore-Gruntas, Pig-iron Choppa
. Orruk Gore-Gruntas: 3 Gore-Gruntas, Pig-iron Choppa
. Orruk Gore-Gruntas: 3 Gore-Gruntas, Pig-iron Choppa

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance: Ironjawz

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

+ Realm of Origin +

Realm of Origin: Origin: Aqshy

+ Malign Sorcery +

Endless Spells [60pts]: Chronomatic Cogs

Total: [1980pts]

[Superninja]

@Hammbone18

I have been wanting to try something like this for a while.  Using the gorefist in addition to another battalion to pin the opponent back, reduce your drops, give you another artefact, and give you another command point seems great.  Each time I build this in warscroll builder I end up feeling it is too much points to spend on something I think will die/not last long enough.  However, I really have a nagging feeling that this can work.

Ardfist battalion is good, this is known.   I would like to see others explore/report on its uses in different setups(sets of 10/20/30 etc).   I have used 5 sets of 10, bringing back 3 sets with good success(Winning game).  I have also had another game where I brought back 2 sets of 10 (using 5 sets of 10) to basically no effect (lost game).   Where/When they come back is critical.

What I am not sure about in your list is this: (These are things I wrestle with in my mind when I build it)

1. Is the single Waaagh! source of a Megaboss on foot enough?  With only 7 wounds and the armour, I feel like it isn't.  There seems to be a good chance he would die. (though he probably is the 2nd target/1st being the warchanter)  The armour is in melee I am pretty sure, so without movement bonus, he often has a hard time getting into melee.   Though he shouldn't have too much problem keeping up with the ardboys, except when they charge.   They have a +3 charge overall, so they can succeed at longer charges more consistently and reach farther than the megaboss (on foot) can.  This is another facter  in him keeping up and in range of Waaaagh! for all to get.  (cogs would add to everyone  of course) (using rampaging destroyers procs on him can help solve this, but what if you don't get that roll that turn etc?)

2.  The problem I find with ardboys, especially when using this battalion(ardfist), is the +4 to hit and the possible -1 rend(if you use big choppas)  That is better than plenty of stuff...but at the end of the day it is never enough (especially with all the -1 to hit modifiers floating around and great saves/buffs).  Warchanters are a big part of our army.   The single warchanter in your army is the one that is also in the ardfist battalion.  (This is target #1 in this battalion)  So, there is little chance you will be buffing your ardboys for long.   It can be difficult to finish off stuff at times with ardboys. 

3.  You do have the points and the amount of ardboys that surely make the weirdnob work but he also has a hard time keeping up, especially when the ardboys charge away from him.  Is he worth the rampaging destroyers roll, the ability to take an artefact, combined with with the negatives of doubles rolls over a fungoid? I always feel like no.  But I have rolled horrible with weirdnob.(I have done more damage to myself than opponents so far with him, seriously)  The cogs help, but with only 1 cast you won't be taking advantage of as many realm spells as you could. 

4.  This may be the biggest problem.  No centerpiece. Without our Megaboss on Mawkrusha, we can have a hard time dealing with other centerpieces, have a hard time reaching all of our units for a Waaagh, and lower wound heroes are easier to focus which means no Waaagh!  And no Waagh! = no win so far for me.  (I keep wanting to try a 2-3 megaboss on foot with a  greenskin warboss on warboar(or 2) but I always talk myself out of it)

5.  With all these battalions and units you are still 4 drops.  4 drops is great but far off from many tournament lists you may face like sylvaneth or others.  This could change how things go.  However, gorefist can help mitigate things.

6. Setup with a secondary gorefist.  Since the battalion wants to stay together to get the move bonus in the first turn, how do you set that up with the rest of your army?  It wants to stay together, in front so to not be blocked, and it takes up a fair amount of board space.  Is this mitigated by how much it pins and delays your opponent?  Terrain plays a large role here.

7.  Setup with a primary ardifst.  What is the best way to setup 50, 60 or more ardboys?  Especially when considering the other battalion.  Long rows of 10 covering almost the whole board or blocks of 5 with 5 more behind?  Terrain plays a huge role here.

 

Edited February 17, 2019 by Superninja

[Andrew G]

On 2/15/2019 at 10:34 PM, Hammbone18 said:

Okay so I just started getting back into the hobby. Love AoS so far and saw the Ardfist discussion. It got me thinking this could be fun to take to a tournament. That being said I plan on taking this list to a tournament I have coming up. What do you guys think??  Thanks for any feedback!

++ **Pitched Battle** 2,000 (Destruction - Ironjawz) [1980pts] ++

+ Leader +

Orruk Megaboss [140pts]: 1. Armour of Gork, General

Orruk Weirdnob Shaman [120pts]: 3. Daubing of Mork

+ Battalion +

Battalion: Ardfist [1050pts]
. Orruk Ardboys: 2x 10 Ardboys, Standard Bearer (Orruk), Waaagh! Drummer
. Orruk Ardboys: 10 Ardboys, Standard Bearer (Orruk), Waaagh! Drummer
. Orruk Ardboys: 10 Ardboys, Standard Bearer (Orruk), Waaagh! Drummer
. Orruk Ardboys: 10 Ardboys, Standard Bearer (Orruk), Waaagh! Drummer
. Orruk Warchanter: 2. Thermalrider Cloak

Battalion: Gorefist [610pts]
. Orruk Gore-Gruntas: 3 Gore-Gruntas, Pig-iron Choppa
. Orruk Gore-Gruntas: 3 Gore-Gruntas, Pig-iron Choppa
. Orruk Gore-Gruntas: 3 Gore-Gruntas, Pig-iron Choppa

+ Allegiance +

Allegiance: Ironjawz

+ Game Options +

Game Type: 2000 Points - Battlehost

+ Realm of Origin +

Realm of Origin: Origin: Aqshy

+ Malign Sorcery +

Endless Spells [60pts]: Chronomatic Cogs

Total: [1980pts]

Cool list, we can quibble about if it's optimized, but there's 1 huge weakness IMO that has to be addressed.

1, 7-wound Waaagh source is not enough. You definitely have enough bodies to properly screen vs. deepstrike/flying chargers, but you're not going to be able to defend vs. magic sniping (maybe this isn't a huge issue in your meta, in which case feel free to ignore). This is especially a concern because of the speed of the footboss, the opponent is going to have 2-3 turns before your footboss is even in a decent position to Waaagh! 

That's why the Mawkrusher is so widely used. Speed + Huge base + bigger Waaagh! range means he WILL be in position by t2, most likely t1 if you get a rampaging destroyers off ( and you have Gorefist -GGs to screen for him, so he's  not going to get instantly surrounded and die).

Being able to affect 14 wounds w/ a defensive artifact rather than 7 wounds is also absolutely huge in terms of survivability. Plus, what @Superninja mentioned as well, he's the best answer we have to high armor anything (Sequitor blocks, centerpieces, it doesn't matter the target with enough CP/Waaaghs! it's going to die). 

 

[Nogginnocker]

I just asked this in the Nighthaunt forum since I play both Nighthaunt and Ironjawz. I'm curious if any of you have any opinions on the matter.

Quote

 

Forgive me if this has been asked already, but does anyone know if Kurdoss Valentian gets an opportunity to steal a command point every time a command point is allocated to your opponent in a single turn, or if it's only for the standard single command point given once per turn? 

"At the start of the enemy hero phase, after the opposing player receives their command point for that turn, roll a dice. On a 5+, subtract 1 from the enemy player’s command points, to a minimum of 0, and you receive 1 command point."

The wording makes it seem like it's referring only to the one command point an opponent gets per turn. The reason why I'm asking is because gloomspite gitz, and now by extension Ironjawz through allies, have the opportunity to gain several command points per turn with the fungoid cave shaman and Skragrott the Loonking. I'm just curious if there's been any social media response, general T.O. agreement, etc. on how to handle that since it's not addressed in the Nighthaunt battletome FAQ (designer's commentary).  

I actually play both armies with my main being IJ (~6,000 pts) and my backup being Nighthaunt (~4,000 pts).  So, I was genuinely curious.

 

 

Edited February 17, 2019 by Nogginnocker

[broche]

also 15'' (+6'' base) waaagh range (for 18'' total radius) versus only 10'' (+3'' base) for Megaboss on foot. Sadly you  quickly notice how hard it is to keep 5 others  IJ units in a such small area

[Hammbone18]

Thank you all for the feedback! I’m going to go back to the drawing board and try and find a way to fit a Maw Krusha in the list, and still keep the gore-fist and ardfist. I'm going to be play testing a few variations in the weeks to come before the tournament. Hopefully I can strike gold!

[Vasshpit]

Ok, I've got a question for all the other Megabosses out there. 

I'd like to ally in some Dankhold Troggs and would appreciate some insight and opinions on the pros and cons of doing so. 

Now I do realize this is not the most optimized of ideas but humor me if you would on tactics, best utilization,  and what a good way to synergize this unit along side what we currently have access to. 

Or is this just a bad tactical idea all together?

Edited February 18, 2019 by Vasshpit

[Malakree]

10 hours ago, Vasshpit said:

Ok, I've got a question for all the other Megabosses out there. 

I'd like to ally in some Dankhold Troggs and would appreciate some insight and opinions on the pros and cons of doing so. 

Now I do realize this is not the most optimized of ideas but humor me if you would on tactics, best utilization,  and what a good way to synergize this unit along side what we currently have access to. 

Or is this just a bad tactical idea all together?

Probably a bad idea, and prohibitive at 220 points, but in my next casual game I'm intending on swapping one of my cabbages for a Troggboss, Fungoid and Arachnocauldron (exactly 440 points). Gives me the CP generation, wizard, Moonclan Lore and lets me use Hand of Gork on the Troggboss to teleport him across the board  

[broche]

I'm currently toying to have a competitive brooch-less list. I've come with something i find interesting i think:

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Ghur
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Rockjaws 
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (120)
Orruk Warchanter (80)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
4 x Ironskull's Boyz (80)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (160)
3 x Fellwater Troggoths (160)
Geminids of Uhl-Gysh (40)
Quicksilver Swords (20)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 149
 

The idea is having multiple source of shoot / mortal wound output. The goal is to cripple screen / lone hero and finish them with Destructive bulk, triggering a second charge (and hopefully reaching juicy stuff). Between MK shooting, rockjaw, the troll and the 2 endless spell, you get a potential of 14 damages (mix of rend 1, 2 and mortal) before charging.

Rockgut would also be an option (lower damage, but mortal and better range)

Basically it's close of what you would hope to acheive with a Weirdfist, but less expensive, less variability and more flexible.

I think this would perform really well against Stormcast, but Legion would still prove a problem.

[Banglesprout]

I really like the originally of this concept @broche and I love the fellwater troggoths so I'd love this to be good.

The thing I'd be worried about is that the ranged attacks are all really short range so do you think you'll struggle to bring them to bear on the key targets?

I think the advantage Weirdfist would have over this is extra range which means you can apply the damage where you need to...