Banglesprout

I'm kinda hoping there are almost no changes in the GHB for Ironjawz because I feel like the less changes there are, the sooner that means their new book is coming out 😛

Oh and also what're you guys doing with your Fungoids other than generating command points? Are they good for anything else?

Thanks for the report and commentary @Andrew G, been really cool to hear that it's doing well! I also really like the alternate list from @broche which includes brutes, if only because I like the greater diversity of units, and brutes arrive such cool models. You answers on how you fight other combat armies sounds great but I have one question.. hope do you fight the "always strike first" FEC dragons? I was kinda thinking that Mirrored Cuirass was the only way, but it's seems neither of you are taking it, so what's your plan??

Awesome, this was my thinking but I wasn't sure if you'd miss the extra range for casting outside of dispel range.. What do are you using CP so much for? I can see it being used for a reroll on one of the spells early, then waaagh later maybe.

@broche awesome! Good luck, look forward to hearing how it goes! @Skabnoze oh agreed he's definitely worth 10 extra points for the CP generation, but I quite like the warchanter too, and I'm not too keen on dropping one of the existing units down to make room.. although swapping one Brute unit for another Ardboy unit might be good. Feels like a bit of a micro optimisation which wouldn't make a bit difference either way, but it'd be good to give a go, especially since I already have the fungoid.. although it would also mean making 10 more Ardboy 😬

I'd be tempted to go for an allied Fungoid.. In which case I'd be tempted to drop the warchanter for him, but it's quite annoying that he's gone up 10 points so they're not the same anymore - I'm not sure how I would change the list to drop those extra 10 points - I could switch a unit of Brutes to a unit of Ardboyz, but I'm not sure I like that as much.. probably would be worth giving a go though!

I've been thinking quite a bit about weirdfist since I read @broche's post a couple of pages back, where he talked about using trolls for some range damage. I do think that Ironjawz need some way to reach out and hit key targets, but I am not a big fan of many of the allied shooting options, so given that, it feels like magic might be the only way. I think there's two issues really with weirdfirst. Firstly it makes you bunch up 5 units + your weirdnob, and secondly since people often also take the balewind vortex it also becomes stationary. The first problem, bunching up, isn't *so* bad because lots of your other abilities also benefit from your units being close togher - such as mighty waaagh, the warchanter buff etc. But I think you also need to put a couple of units into your list that are happy being outside this bubble. The second problem, being stationary, is possible to avoid completely.. but if you want to do that and also cast two spells per turn then you need to take cogs, which I actually don't think is a bad option and gives some nice flexibility as it can also be used to speed up your army. I think there's also a third issue with weirdfist - which is the high casting value of Foot of Gork. Without mystical terrain you're still more likely to fail to cast this spell than you are to succeed, even with the +2 to cast.. I really love it buuut.. I'm starting to think that maybe the way to get more out of the weirdfist is to cast Green Puke and Arcane Bolt more, what're your guy's thoughts on this? Bearing all that in mind the list I am currently thinking of is this Megaboss on MawKrusha (440) General, Ironclad, Daubing of Mork Warchanter (80) Boss skewer Weirdnob Shaman (120) 10 Ardboyz (160) 10 Ardboyz (160) 10 Ardboyz (160) 5 Brutes (180) 5 Brutes (180) 3 Gore Gruntas (140) 3 Gore Gruntas (140) Weirdfist (180) Chronomatic Cogs (60) Giving 2000 points exactly, with 146 wounds. The 30 ardboyz and 10 brutes accompany the weirdnob shaman in the weirdfist. The two gore grunta units are there to act independently . I'm kinda tempted to swap out the two gore grunta units for two Rockgut troggoth units.. I love the models, and the idea of the ranged mortal wounds.. but I think Rockgut's probably work better in one unit of six, rather than two units of three, and their lower wounds, lower save, lower bravery, lower movement speed than Gore gruntas, which makes me think they're really not cut out for acting independently away from the weirdfist blob.

I really like the originally of this concept @broche and I love the fellwater troggoths so I'd love this to be good. The thing I'd be worried about is that the ranged attacks are all really short range so do you think you'll struggle to bring them to bear on the key targets? I think the advantage Weirdfist would have over this is extra range which means you can apply the damage where you need to...

It depends what kind of list you're running. I think if you're planning on playing a Gorefist then 15 isn't too many at all, and you may even want a few more! On the other hand for other kinds of list it probably is more than you need. So I guess the question is; do you want to play Gorefist (or at least have the option to)?

Hey @Malakree thanks for the report! I am just checking out the Honest Wargamer coverage of Crimbobo now while doing some painting and have just seen your game, shame it was the first, would have loved to see your army going crazy and crushing, but the destructive bulk run at the end of the game was pretty cool anyway Sounds like you really enjoyed the weirdfist, which is cool, what about the double mawkrusha, how did that do, and would you stick with it?

Hey @Andrew G thanks for your thoughts! It's interesting that you list Bloodtoofs lists as one of the three mistakes people are making, but the third list you've been playing *is* a Bloodtoofs list, so you must think it still can be worthwhile - what makes you take it in that third list? I'm going to try the following list for my next games - mainly because I want to try a larger unit of Gruntas & Brutes. Not sure whether I wanna keep that 100 points for command points, out try to fill it with something... LeadersMegaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)- GeneralOrruk Warchanter (80)Orruk Warchanter (80)Battleline6 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (280)10 x Orruk Brutes (360)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)BattalionsIronfist (180)Total: 1900 / 2000Extra Command Points: 3Allies: 0 / 400Wounds: 146

I love the idea of the 6 strong GGs that get launched into the opponent, pinning him in his deployment zone. The extra two wounds is nice, but it feels kinda awkward that once the unit dies everything loses the 'ere we go d6 move... How do people play this bigger unit?

Hey @Malakree awesome to hear your report as that's exactly the list I'm currently building towards! It's a shame you hate the footboss as he's such a great model! What are you considering swapping him out for? Obvious choice is the warboss on a boar with the waaagh banner as he's a straight swap for points.. or maybe go for something more interesting - a wizard + endless spell perhaps?

Awesome to hear your success @Superninja! I kinda wanna remain pure Ironjawz at the moment so haven't tried the Orruk Warboss yet, but I do think the Great Waagh Banner sounds great. What was the reason you inlcuded those 10 Orruks, just because you had an 80 point whole to fill? Do they do anything other than sit on an objective and hope to be ignored? @Skreech Verminking sounds like it could be fun - you've certainly got a lot of heroes. The thing I would be worrying about is how slow everything in your army is (except your warboss). I've seen people play all brute armies, but usually this is at 2000 points with bloodtoofs and cogs to help speed them up. I suspect that although that list could work, if you included a Gore Grunta unit or two (or a fast ally unit) then it'd be stronger. The list I am currently playing with a 1000 points is: Mawkrusher, Warchanter, 10 Ardboyz, 5 Brutes, 3 Gore Gruntas. I mostly made this just because I wanted one of each unit so I could play with them all, so I'm not claiming it's super competitive. But that diversity is something of a strength, and I'd expect to be able to dictate which combats happen because of the extra speed my Mawkrusher and Gruntas have over your army. I think it's always going to be a struggle for an army which has no ranged or magic threat, so it combat only, and is also slower than it's opponent.

Hey @Superninja sorry to hear you're feeling down! Here are some thoughts on your problems You've got two options. First is go for it. So you charge in with one of your key combat units - usually either your mawkrusha or a big unit of brutes. (have you tried 10 - 15 of them in a single unit?). Give them the buffs you can, hope you can do it. Possibly this isn't the best option though - what might be better is pin this large unit in place by charging it with a unit which is just gonna hold them there for a bit - like some Gore Gruntas. Then move around that unit and attack other stuff with your key combat units - like the heroes that are buffing that large unit in the first place for example. Mawkrusha is particularly good at this because he can fly over stuff that's in the way and attack enemies that are behind the front line. Deciding which of these two options to take is kinda the fun part of playing Ironjawz Yeah ranged units hurt, and it's really hard to watch your guy slowly (or not so slowly) dieing if they're not really achieving much. I guess as Ironjaws we never really defend (unless playing weirdfist *maybe*) - you've just gotta try to play the objective and accept that some (or lots) of your stuff is going to die, it's just a question of "what value can I get from it before it does die"... Yeah we don't have these shenanigans, which in some ways means we're playing proper, but it can be tough. The best way I can think of to counter this kinda stuff is allied goblins for board control, or at least as a shield protecting your key combat units from getting hit. Ardboyz can kinda do that job too in a pure Ironjawz list. Spread out to limit where they can drop, and physically stand in front of the important units you want to keep alive, so that they have to charge your shielding unit. Of course if the deep strike unit can fly or has ranged attacks it becomes even harder... I think because of Waaagh, and Smashing & Bashing, we can feel like we need one or two epic turns where we absolutely explode and annihilate the enemy.. and I guess this *can* happen - but it's not always possible, and it's not the only way to play. There's no reason you can't use waagh in a turn just to buff one or two combats to make the difference. I know this is easier said than done, but in this scenario you are correct. You kinda have to accept that you're going to get hit first - so you push a unit in front of the enemies face (Gruntas or Ardboyz probably) knowing it's going to get hit and maybe killed. Your key combat units are behind that somewhere waiting to counter charge your enemy after he has hit your unlucky first wave. Of course.. your opponent is probably going to be trying to do something similar back to you... that's Warhammer