AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[PlasticCraic]

On 7/4/2018 at 7:54 AM, Malakree said:

For example is pretty filthy, the 3d6+3" charge makes the Brutefist charge far more likely to go off and combos fantastically with the +2 attacks from the big G. Potentially replace the Weirdnob with a Fungoid to try and do it multiple times a game.

I really like this as an idea, but I'm not sure it works.  Unfortunately the CA on Gordrakk's warscroll states that you roll 3 dice in the following Charge phase.  So it wouldn't apply to the Brutefist's Hero Phase charge.

[Superninja]

But the brutes, using brutefist, can charge as if its the following charge phase.  Doesn't that count?

Actually, I had written out the same thing earlier and erased it, cause i kinda convinced myself it could work.

 

Edited July 6, 2018 by Superninja

[Skabnoze]

One of the reasons that I really hope GW rewrites a number of battletomes in the new edition (they usually do), is simply to clean up the wordings of abilities like these.  There is no reason for the current semantics in Gordrakk's command ability. 

[Imperial]

16 hours ago, Malakree said:

Honestly we don't know.

We know allies can't have allegiance specific artefacts but up till this point we haven't had access to none allegiance based choices.

Hopefully it will be in the faq soon. Would be such a massive boon if the realm artefacts could go on allies.

It's not allegiance artefacts now. It's addition to allegiance artefacts list, so i don't see any trouble to take it. Same with realms spells 

[To1v1]

20 hours ago, Lord_Cabbage said:

Command points =4

My understanding was you generate one command point for each battlaion, in this case 2 and then one in each of your hero phases, how did you get to 4? I'm new to this.

[Izikail]

So... How do we make a weird fist work?

There is an odd contradiction in focusing on your nob. To get the units for the extra triggers you need melee units near your nob. So you must have you nob upfront, but, To benifit you want something such as a balewind or cogs for extea spells. This however makes your nob imobile. So what do you do to make this function? Charge your nob up? 

[DerZauberer]

7 minutes ago, To1v1 said:

My understanding was you generate one command point for each battlaion, in this case 2 and then one in each of your hero phases, how did you get to 4? I'm new to this.

You get 1 command point for each 50 points unspend. By only using 1900 points you get 2 command points.

It replaces the old Triumph mechanic.

[Izikail]

26 minutes ago, DerZauberer said:

You get 1 command point for each 50 points unspend. By only using 1900 points you get 2 command points.

It replaces the old Triumph mechanic.

On stormcast they said you got triumphs aswell

[Superninja]

In the pitched battles section, page 49 of ghb2018, under triumphs and command points: 

"...if one player has more tpoints left over than their opponent after selecting their army, then they can roll on the triumph table after both armies have been set up."

"In a pitched battle, an army receives 1 extra Command Point for every 50 points that were not spent on units for the army."

[Superninja]

12 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

For example is pretty filthy, the 3d6+3" charge makes the Brutefist charge far more likely to go off and combos fantastically with the +2 attacks from the big G. Potentially replace the Weirdnob with a Fungoid to try and do it multiple times a game. 

 

12 hours ago, PlasticCraic said:

I really like this as an idea, but I'm not sure it works.  Unfortunately the CA on Gordrakk's warscroll states that you roll 3 dice in the following Charge phase.  So it wouldn't apply to the Brutefist's Hero Phase charge.

 

9 hours ago, Superninja said:

But the brutes, using brutefist, can charge as if its the following charge phase.  Doesn't that count?

Actually, I had written out the same thing earlier and erased it, cause i kinda convinced myself it could work. 

@Malakree Does this work? or not?  I originally thought that it wouldn't, but after re looking at it, I really think it can. 

Brutefist: 

"In your hero phase, units from the battalion within 10" of its brute big boss can make a charge move AS IF IT WERE THE (FOLLOWING) CHARGE PHASE. " 

Gordrakk :

"Once per battle, in your hero phase, you can pick a Destruction unit that is within 20" of (faq'd  wholly within 24") Gordrakk. IN THE FOLLOWING CHARGE PHASE, that unit can declare a charge....and so on" 

 

So at first it seems it doesn't because it is 2 different phases BUT the Brutefist are charging in the hero phase AS IF IT WERE THE (FOLLOWING) CHARGE PHASE.   And if it were the following charge phase, they would get that bonus.  They are just doing it in the hero phase...as if it were charge phase.  I really think that it works. 

[ChatBatFun]

Is this list any good?

Unknown.pdf

Edited July 6, 2018 by ChatBatFun

[Mortaal]

"as if it were" still means it is not the charge phase though but still the hero phase.

[Rock Lobster]

Ok, so I got my first game of AOS 2 in with the Ironjawz, list was:

Realm = Hyush (which I think is amazing just for Aethrquartz Brooch)

Megaboss on Mawkrusha (Mirrored cuirass)

Warchanter (boss Stika)

Wierdnob (Aetherquartz Brooch)

10 brutes

5 brutes

5 brutes

10 ardboyz (opponent allowed 20 points extra to get these in as my 2nd 3 gore gruntas not painted)

3 gore gruntas

ironfist

blood toofs

cogs

I was against sylvaneth

Treelord

Durthu

Drycha

3 units of 3 x kurnoth hunters

2 units of spite revenants

1 unit of dryads

The stacking of command abilities and movement buffs was decisive in this, I did the 1 drop and gave first turn to my opponent who blocked off the center with wildwoods around deadly terrain and then move his army into the woods to occupy them thinking he would only be in range of a possible turn 2 charge with durthu being 18" from the closest unit.

Of course cogs was cast, and then I successfully destruction moved 2 units of brutes forward followed by rolls of 4 or more on both units of brutes for the ironfist and before the movement phase had even began I had closed that gap to 8", giving me movement to skirt the nasty trees with my 10 brutes, and my 5 brutes simply waded through a forest taking a casualty to slam into a unit of kurnoth hunters. On the flank my gore gruntas tore across the table towards a little unit of spite revenants on an objective.

The charge phase was big, 10 brutes into durthu (the picture below is the hole left by durthus demise) - 2 units of 5 brutes into the kurnoth hunters on the right, and surprised my opponent with a big charge from my mawkrusha which sailed over durthus head into drycha.

The waagh was most brutal, 3 waaghs done in one turn, 2 of which were 6's giving +5 attacks per weapon to my guys. I even recovered a command point on a 5+ allowing me to finish my turn with another in the bank.

With smashing and bashing and the +5 attacks it was a slaughter, durthu, drycha and the kurnoth hunters on the right were slaughtered before striking, and on the left barely in camera shot the gruntas killed the revenants.

The sylvaneth responded in their turn by sending 1 units of kurnoth hunters into the warchanter and slaying him, and sending another unit plus the treelord into the 10 brutes, killing 5 of them but the treelord taking 3-4 wounds in the process.

In the Ironjawz turn 2 it was mop up. Movement shenanigans put the remaining 5 man brute units into a kurnoth hunter unit and the dryads, the megaboss went into the last kurnoth hunter unit and I left the 5 remaining brutes from the 10 man unit to fight the treelord with some waagh support.

Again - 5 additional attacks from Waagh. Used 2 Waaghs and got +2 attacks on a 6 and +1 and recovered another command point I used for a 3rd waagh which gave a +2 attacks. Everything died horribly without striking back.

Ironjawz total victory!

A lot based on luck for command abilities and movement so not representative. 4 of my 6 command rolls were 6s which is a bit stupid, but even if I had no 6s I think +3 attacks would have done the job. Ironjawz are even more lopsided than they used to be - in your turn they can do an almighty crushing alpha strike that sweeps the table of those in contact, and all your buffs and abilities expire for your opponents turn and they become fragile things that fight like wet noodles, only to explode again in the next Ironjawz turn.

I liked the list - the hyush artifacts are really good for us. I dont like the glaring weakness in the army that if the mawkrusha dies the army loses all effectiveness.

 

[Malakree]

@Superninja

I think this has actually come up before and we decided it didn't. @Mortaal basically covered it.

It's another great example of how the ironjawz rules are vague compared to the modern ones.

If you are going to a tournament ask the organiser before you submit the list. If it's a friendly game just tell your opponent it's vague and I suspect you will be allowed.

To expand.

I believe the key word is "following" where it activates specifically for that phase.

Sorry for misleading

@Rock Lobster what command trait was on the cabbage?

Edited July 6, 2018 by Malakree

[Superninja]

I agree.  That is how I thought before on the subject, you just got me excited at the possibility it may work.  Ty for the clarification.

[Malakree]

3 minutes ago, Superninja said:

I agree.  That is how I thought before on the subject, you just got me excited at the possibility it may work.  Ty for the clarification.

Every time I forget that it's stupid. It really should increase charge range till the end of the turn and add 2 attacks for the following combat phase.

[Ravinsild]

I’m feeling really frustrated right now. I keep playing against this Skaven player and I feel completely helpless. They have so much shooting and ****** mortal wound generators that they just literally get free damage. He never suffers the supposed draw backs of this alleged RNG, he just always seems to roll well and hit and do what he needs. Multiple times he’s deleted my Gore-Gruntas before they could even do a single attack, with mortal wound spamming and shooting. 

How the ****** do you deal with Skaven? They bring more wizards than we can, they bring more guns than we have period and they ****** mortal wounds like it’s their only source of nutrition. I triggered two full turns/combat round of smashing and bashing deleting 3 units each time AND I STILL LOST. He just shot my guys camping objectives and I was too far forward to run back so I had to go for HIS objective markers or waste turns backtracking. 

Do we have a counter to Skaven, or is it Rock Paper Scissors design and they’re rock and we’re scissors ? 

[Rock Lobster]

@Malakree I was using the -1 to incoming rend, I didn’t need it though as I never got hit.

[Tizianolol]

Are you sure you can waagh more then one time? I mean i thought i can use maw waagh and megaboss waagh in the same turn but not like 2 maw waagh!! It seems so broken!

[Malakree]

42 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Are you sure you can waagh more then one time? I mean i thought i can use maw waagh and megaboss waagh in the same turn but not like 2 maw waagh!! It seems so broken!

There are no rules which stop it. I asked at the open day and the rules writer couldn't find one.

[Izikail]

I actualy am curious how to use a weird nob weird fist list

[Rock Lobster]

1 hour ago, Tizianolol said:

Are you sure you can waagh more then one time? I mean i thought i can use maw waagh and megaboss waagh in the same turn but not like 2 maw waagh!! It seems so broken!

It is legitimately allowed, and it is indeed broken, however it is not even the worst of the stackable command traits, like the ones that allow daughters of Khaine Medusa’s to fire a huge number of times in the first hero phase, the killer goblin spear of massive damage, the flesh eaters summon bananza where you summon 180 points of crypt horrors turn 1 anywhere on the board by a table edge for every 50 points you spend on a command point. Unless they comp this edition it is broken out of the gate.

[Malakree]

I think the big thing we will see is warscroll specific CA being one per character each turn.

Would also be really cool if they changed the WAAAGH! To be activated at the start of any combat phase aswell. So you spend the CA and use it at the start of the combat phase instead of your hero phase then it activating in the combat.

Would also let us use it at the start of an opponents combat phase since it no longer requires we have a hero phase before it.

That would be such an amazing change. Combine that with frenzy of violence lasting until your next hero phase, soooo good!

[Richelieu]

14 minutes ago, Rock Lobster said:

It is legitimately allowed, and it is indeed broken, however it is not even the worst of the stackable command traits, like the ones that allow daughters of Khaine Medusa’s to fire a huge number of times in the first hero phase, the killer goblin spear of massive damage, the flesh eaters summon bananza where you summon 180 points of crypt horrors turn 1 anywhere on the board by a table edge for every 50 points you spend on a command point. Unless they comp this edition it is broken out of the gate.

None of these things is broken.

Blood Stalkers are prohibitively expensive, do pathetic damage and that command ability requires a 480 point named character general.

Crypt horrors are 160 points and they are terrible at that price.  Not to mention that each 400 point Ghoul King on terrorgheist can only use that command ability once per game.

I am unfamiliar with this killer goblin spear but I'm sure whatever it is it's nowhere near as bad as engine of the gods is right now.

[Skabnoze]

2 hours ago, Richelieu said:

I am unfamiliar with this killer goblin spear but I'm sure whatever it is it's nowhere near as bad as engine of the gods is right now.

It allows all Moonclan grots in a unit that roll a 4+ to wound their target to do obscene amounts of damage if their target fails a saving throw.  It depends on how many command points you spend, but a single goblin can one-shot Nagash or Archaon.  Like, they fail one save and that single goblin inflicts 16 or 32 wounds with one spear poke.  Enemy units get blown off the table as well.

It will most likely be hit hard with an errata or outright replaced if a Moonclan battletome releases fairly soon.  This interaction is honestly just busted.