AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[newsun]

10 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

@Czarnyjas

The Megaboss both counts as a unit and gets the full benefit and attacks himself.

You use Whaagh at the start of the combat phase and then it lasts for that phase only. This means you need to plan where all your units are after charges, so charging 1-2 units too far ahead and out of range of whaagh (10" for a megaboss on foot) will be a problem.

I think it's actually used in hero phase and just triggers in next combat phase.

[Gothmaug]

This may be a silly question, but if you have the command points available, is there anything that stops you from using Waaaagh!!! at the start of the opponents combat phase?

 

The  core rules only specify command abilities during your own hero phase if there is no phase listed in the ability. Megabosse’s waaagh just says beginning of the combat phase. Like how inspiring presence says battleshock phase, which people use during their opponents turn all the time.  Seems to me you can use waaagh on opponents command phase as well.

[broche]

waaaagh is used in your own hero phase and trigger at the next combat phase.

[Scurvydog]

2 hours ago, broche said:

waaaagh is used in your own hero phase and trigger at the next combat phase.

"If a Megaboss uses this ability, count up the number of Ironjawz units within 10" of them at the start of the combat phase of the turn and roll a dice..."

It states at the start of the combat phase of the turn, not "your turn" and nothing about using it in the hero phase, it would make little sense using an ability in a phase where it does nothing and "triggers" later, nothing supports that here. It clearly states you do this at the start of the combat phase of a turn, so I dont know where that interpretation comes from, did GW address this anywhere?

A command ability only defaults to being used in the hero phase if nothing else is stated, which there is here.

Edited April 26, 2019 by Scurvydog

[Aelfric]

29 minutes ago, Scurvydog said:

"If a Megaboss uses this ability, count up the number of Ironjawz units within 10" of them at the start of the combat phase of the turn and roll a dice..."

It states at the start of the combat phase of the turn, not "your turn" and nothing about using it in the hero phase, it would make little sense using an ability in a phase where it does nothing and "triggers" later, nothing supports that here. It clearly states you do this at the start of the combat phase of a turn, so I dont know where that interpretation comes from, did GW address this anywhere?

A command ability only defaults to being used in the hero phase if nothing else is stated, which there is here.

It does not specifically state that you use the ability in the combat phase, or any other phase, therefore it is used in the hero phase.  It is its effects that are triggered in the combat phase.  This command ability predates the shift to command abilities being used in different phases and I expect it will be updated when we get a new book.  Until then, it follows the default position.

[Scurvydog]

Guess this required the perspective of a AoS 1 player, as I have only been playing AoS in 2nd edition for real. 

 

If you know command abilities worked different with an old ruleset, and this outdated book has very little designer commentary and useful errata, then it is difficult to know the original intention of the rule, as everyone in my gaming group saw it like I did, but we all started playing here in 2nd edition.

So now my Ironjawz will be even worse and not dangerous at all to charge in the opponents phase, nice.

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, Scurvydog said:

Guess this required the perspective of a AoS 1 player, as I have only been playing AoS in 2nd edition for real. 

 

If you know command abilities worked different with an old ruleset, and this outdated book has very little designer commentary and useful errata, then it is difficult to know the original intention of the rule, as everyone in my gaming group saw it like I did, but we all started playing here in 2nd edition.

So now my Ironjawz will be even worse and not dangerous at all to charge in the opponents phase, nice.

It's actually to do with the wording of the ability, because it doesn't say "Use this command ability..." it doesn't specify when you use it. Thus it's used in the hero phase. It's just it's effects trigger in the combat phase.

 

[tolstedt]

On 4/26/2019 at 1:22 AM, Scurvydog said:

It states at the start of the combat phase of the turn, not "your turn" and nothing about using it in the hero phase, it would make little sense using an ability in a phase where it does nothing and "triggers" later, nothing supports that here. It clearly states you do this at the start of the combat phase of a turn, so I dont know where that interpretation comes from, did GW address this anywhere?

You are correct that it makes little sense.  You use it in the hero phase.

[Warfiend]

I wanted my big brute boss for the Ironfist battalion to stand out. I'm happy with the mawkrusha's circlethingy on his armor but I'm wondering if the mace is to much, what do you guys think? Should I keep it or halve the top spikes?

To the right is my favorite brute, painted him a while ago, he was my second painted guy,  got to rebase it soon.

[Grotslappa]

Hey Everyone:

Long time lurker with my first post here. First off, thanks for all the great discussion! I really enjoy the sharing of ideas, builds, and experiences. I’m about to start a Firestorm campaign with a group of friends and I’m considering builds for the Ironjawz army I want to field. I’ve posted a 2000-point list below and I would really appreciate feedback and suggestions. It’s a CP farm build based on a few of the great builds that the community has shared here.  Tell me what you think and where you think I need to make changes...

Cheers!

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh!  
- Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 9x Pair of Choppas or Smashas
- 1x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 9x Pair of Choppas or Smashas
- 1x Big Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 1x Gore Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (180)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125
 

[Warfiend]

57 minutes ago, Grotslappa said:

Hey Everyone:

Long time lurker with my first post here. First off, thanks for all the great discussion! I really enjoy the sharing of ideas, builds, and experiences. I’m about to start a Firestorm campaign with a group of friends and I’m considering builds for the Ironjawz army I want to field. I’ve posted a 2000-point list below and I would really appreciate feedback and suggestions. It’s a CP farm build based on a few of the great builds that the community has shared here.  Tell me what you think and where you think I need to make changes...

Cheers!

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Prophet of the Waaagh!  
- Artefact: Mirrored Cuirass 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
Orruk Warboss (140)
- Great Waaagh Banner
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)

Battleline
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 9x Pair of Choppas or Smashas
- 1x Big Choppas
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
- 9x Pair of Choppas or Smashas
- 1x Big Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
- 1x Gore Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Jagged Gore-hackas
- 1x Gore Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (180)

Endless Spells
Balewind Vortex (40)

Total: 2000 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 125
 

I like your list It's near identical to a list I was thinking about just today, However what is your opinion on Gore Gruntas? I personally always like one of them to accompany a mawkrusha because he can feel kind of squishy on it's own and they are the only unit with the movement to reliably keep up with the big guy in case you need to extend him a bit.

I'm also wondering what you're planning with the Balewind Vortex, it's relatively cheap but it locks your wizard in place, I've used it a few times in my lists and while it can be pretty good on occasions I think it's somewhat lackluster if used by a fungoid ally, because of the lack of gloomspite spells.

In my own list I would replace one unit of brutes for a unit of goregruntas and instead of using the Balewind Vortex I want to try the Mork's Mighty Mushroom.

[Grotslappa]

I haven’t had a great deal of luck using Gore Gruntas in single units of 3, lately. That said, you’re right about them offering the Maw Krusha  some support with their greater movement. I might substitute one of the Brute units with some Gore Gruntas, as you’ve suggested, for the improved movement and support option.

We’re using the realm spells for Aqshy in the campaign so I thought the Balewind Vortex would be a good choice to increase the spell output on one of the shamans. With respect to being locked in place my thought is to move the shamans up with a block of units using buffs like inferno blades or stoke rage. Then, when they’re close enough to start slinging some offensive spells too, I’ll use the Vortex on one of them for the extra spell.

Just read up on Mork’s Mighty Mushroom. Potentially very nasty!

 

[broche]

@Grotslappa I think your list is a bit heavy on characters. You'll end up having hard time constesting objective. You should probably cut a warchanter and a fungoid for more bodies (gruntas or ardboys).  

Also Balewind don't serve any purpose with only 2 fungoid. Pick another spell, or keep extra point for CP (extra starting CP are never bad in IJ  )

[newsun]

14 hours ago, Warfiend said:

I wanted my big brute boss for the Ironfist battalion to stand out. I'm happy with the mawkrusha's circlethingy on his armor but I'm wondering if the mace is to much, what do you guys think? Should I keep it or halve the top spikes?

To the right is my favorite brute, painted him a while ago, he was my second painted guy,  got to rebase it soon.

Looks great keep it big!

[Grotslappa]

9 hours ago, broche said:

@Grotslappa I think your list is a bit heavy on characters. You'll end up having hard time constesting objective. You should probably cut a warchanter and a fungoid for more bodies (gruntas or ardboys).  

Also Balewind don't serve any purpose with only 2 fungoid. Pick another spell, or keep extra point for CP (extra starting CP are never bad in IJ  )

@broche Good points! I’ll switch out one of the fungoids and a warchanter for another unit of ‘ardboys and drop the balewind vortex. This will leave me enough points for that extra CP out of the gate. If I also switch one of the three brute units for a unit of gore Gruntas I’ll have another 40 points to spend on a different endless spell...

 

[Hankster]

Hi All,

I'm on the fence about when to pick up some Orruks. Has anyone heard any rumors when Ironjawz will get a updated battletome? I kinda what to see where the army is going before I spend yet more money on AoS. 

Cheers!

[Zambo]

2 hours ago, Hankster said:

Hi All,

I'm on the fence about when to pick up some Orruks. Has anyone heard any rumors when Ironjawz will get a updated battletome? I kinda what to see where the army is going before I spend yet more money on AoS. 

Cheers!

Got it in one Hankster I would wait for update which is bound to be coming I would guess later this year ! 

 

[Hypno]

Ill Put Money on the Ironjawz Release/Update being in Orktober

[Andrew G]

I've taken a break from AoS the last couple of months, but I'm about to head to a tourney this weekend(probably only 20-25 people but about  ~8 of them are super competitive GT goers). In a pretty big upset, I won the last one I went to in January with the Gorefist list I've posted a few times, but I want to bring something different.  I'm currently planning on this:  

Allegiance: Ironjawz
Mortal Realm: Aqshy
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
- Allies
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- General
- Choppa and Rip-tooth fist
- Trait: Ironclad 
- Artefact: Ignax's Scales 
Orruk Warchanter (80)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
10 x Orruk Ardboys (160)
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Total: 1990 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 270 / 400
Wounds: 172
 

Posted this list a few months back, but I've only gotten about half a dozen games with it, any feedback appreciated.  It was pretty hard to give up Broach and/or Prophet of the Waaagh!, but 1 game vs. new Skaven made me realize even with perfect screening/positioning there's no way I'm keeping the Krusher alive past turn 3 w/o Ignax and Ironclad. I usually think the footboss is a noob trap, but he's pretty much my only option for a redundant Waaagh! source in this army as I'm already at the ally cap.

Playstyle is much different from Gorefist as well. It's been fun playing an army that actually gets stronger as the game goes on (Gork bless these new fungoids, they are SOOOO good in IJ). Anyway, let me know what you guys think.

[broche]

@Andrew G Like it, i think i would just drop to two fungoid, start with +2 CP and garantee the triumph. Might try to double 2 units of boys / gruntas  for buff magnet.

[Arkahn]

Why not something like that ? 

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline

Units
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (180)

Endless Spells
Mork's Mighty Mushroom (80)
Scuttletide (30)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110
 

2 extra CP, two sources of Waaagh and brutes (you can replace brutes to ardboys but few brutes units with a big Waaagh are so strong !) 

[Andrew G]

4 hours ago, Arkahn said:

Why not something like that ? 

Allegiance: Destruction

Leaders
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Fungoid Cave-Shaman (90)
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (440)
- Boss Gore-hacka and Scrap-tooth
Orruk Megaboss (140)
Orruk Warchanter (80)

Battleline

Units
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (180)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore Gruntas (140)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Battalions
Ironfist (180)

Endless Spells
Mork's Mighty Mushroom (80)
Scuttletide (30)

Total: 1950 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 2
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 110
 

2 extra CP, two sources of Waaagh and brutes (you can replace brutes to ardboys but few brutes units with a big Waaagh are so strong !) 

I'd be beating a dead horse going into a ton of detail, but I avoid these low body/wound count lists like the plague.

[Andrew G]

 

 

 

8 hours ago, broche said:

@Andrew G Like it, i think i would just drop to two fungoid, start with +2 CP and garantee the triumph. Might try to double 2 units of boys / gruntas  for buff magnet.

I actually like dropping the last fungoid suggestion, trying that in the 1 game I have before tourney.

I've been using the MK as buff sponge, but I think combining two boyz unit actually might have some utility without compromising my late game Waaagh! checks too much. 

Other suggestion offered to me was changing one unit of boyz to GGs and adding Scuttletide.  Infinite range spell with that big of a base could be extremely effective of blocking off choke-points. Probably could just outright win you the game against non-flying armies who fail to dispel it and can't move to the middle objectives (working out the math in my head... chances of that are extremely low. So, probably just dropping a fungoid for my last experimentation game.)

[newsun]

Drop one fungoid, switch one gg to ardfist. Fill to taste.

[Andrew G]

Pretty good result for the tourney this weekend. Went 3-0 and ended up in second place. I took @broche advice and just dropped one Fungoid so I could start with 2 CP, but otherwise same list I posted before.

1st game: Slaneesh. Basically running the named Keeper of Secrets, a Keeper of Secrets, a couple of other heroes and two block demonettes. Scenerio was Scorched Earth. I deploy with 'ardboyz screens in front, with GGs behind them, and my MK behind those.

My opponent opts to take turn 1, and he pretty much rushes everything into my line. He fails a charge with the regular keeper of secrets but everything else makes it. He doesn't do much, and I don't do much in return. He ends up killing 1 GG unit(3 inch ranged attack from the named Keeper), a couple of models from a few 'ardboyz units, and almost kills one of my fungoids. I did a few wounds to his heroes and kill off 5ish demonettes. 

My turn 1 I get lucky and end up with 5cp, blow everything on waaagh! I had to retreat a few units to get my MK involved, but I end up just smashing and bashing through most of his army. He did get a couple of the always-strikes-last  abilities off, but the only consequential one was vs. the MK and the game was pretty much already over by then.  I won the initiative roll off and ended up completely tabling him at top of 2.  He was sitting on 40 something depravity points that he wasn't able to use. Definitely would like a rematch, he's still relatively new to the army and obviously made some big mistakes committing all his heroes.

2nd Game: Skaven. 40 clanrats, 20 clanrats, 20 clanrates, two full blocks of plague monks, thanquil, Hellpit, Screamin bells, and some other heroes. He had some combo that allowed him to pretty much infinitely farm command points.  The scenario was starstrike. 

Opponent screened his whole line with 40 clanrats, had two 20 clanrats screen 4" behind that, and his plague monks behind those blocks of 20. He runs his whole army into the middle of the board. My T1 I send a few units of GGs into try to pop the 40 screen and keep the rest of the army back to wait for where the comet lands. 

T2, opponent wins initiative and ends up retreating a few units to make room for one of the plague monk blocks to charge and clear the GGs I used to take out the clanrat screen and grab the middle objective. My turn 2 I end up killing off the plague monk block with my MK, and clear the 20  screen of clanrats in front of his other block of plaguemonks. I was able to pile-in 1 unit barely within 3" of the corner of the remaining  plaguemonk block locking him down going into T3. 

The final comets both land on the side of the board where my MK was on, I win intiative and the MK ends up killing the Hellpit and a few other things and I score all 3 objectives. He still has a lot alive, but thanquil and his plaguemonk block were on the other side of the board. He ends up destroying most of my units in the center and side of the board without the objectives, but I had board control on the side that mattered. We ended up about even in Kill Points, I landed the major victory. Definitely got pretty lucky with the comet landings. 

3rd Game: Idoneth. 6x3 offensive eels, High King, the deepstrike hero, some thralls, and another hero that reverses High Tide so he gets always-strikes first on T2 instead of 3. Not the typical Eel spam list, but it has most of the main components that makes it work. Scenerio was Duality of Death.

He opts to go first and with reversed High Tide he ends up running and charging the whole army T1 to try to pin me in my deployment zone.. The eels do absolute work. Pop 3 'ardboyz units and 1 gg unit. 

My T1, pop all my Waaagh!s, blow through eels. 

Win the Turn 2 initiative, GGs and Mk run down the heroes on the points. He's always strikes first, and ends up taking out a few units of GGs but I was able dislodge one of the heroes. 

Both of us barely had anything on the table at this point, but without the Eels pretty much nothing in his army could stop the MK. By the end of the game I pulled ahead on objective points but it was really hard fought. 

I ended up getting passed on Kill points, so ended up second, but my practice partner ended up winning 1st so really good showing for myself and crew.