AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[Malakree]

3 minutes ago, Gothmaug said:

Smash em and Bash em only works on fellow units within 3", so it will have to be planned for carefully when you're figuring out which order to fight in. A lot less useful now. 

Na, just you have to be with 3" of enemy units. Nothing about being near your own unit. Even the oldest version was just "the closest IJ unit".

4 minutes ago, Gothmaug said:

The Kruelboys Sloggoth unit grants a +1 to hit 18" bubble, and hits only 150 points. I'll be keeping one of those in all my lists. 

Quote

"If you choose an Ironjawz army, all Orruk Warclans units in the army bust have the Ironjawz Keyword."

 

[Orkmann]

13 minutes ago, Malakree said:

I'm really not sure that's now the bloodtoofs ability should work. That seems nuts, especially on the Waaagh! turn, you could comfortably put 4 units of GG's and 2 MK's in combat turn 1.

I'd find that very reasonable 😇

[Malakithe]

I welcome our new Brute overlords...as it always should have been. They are the best models in all of destruction.

[Scurvydog]

Ironjawz are going to be proper scary. Everything just got better and more flexible, although some nerfs too.

Mawkrushas went down in points and got a better profile and being able to issue the same command to multiple units is HUGE, all out defence? Mighty destroyers? wow!

The Ironjawz Waaagh is awesome, rend is what seals the deal, so everything will be rend 2-3, auch!

Mad as hell is gone, OK tradeoff when you can mighty destroyer multiple units, command trait can make it even more. The generic +1 charge is also gone, as is mighty destroyers fight in the hero phase, which is just a pile in, that is of course some hefty nerfs. I do think the other changes make up for it, again the multi command from megabosses is huge. Warchanters got better. The megaboss on foot can be a good idea too. 

Da Choppas with MSU brutes can be proper scary too. As is the fast un mount trait, which just opens up so many nasty tactics with a mawkrusha. Megabosses with rip toof fist still having a 3+ save was the major deal winner, now it is just better, 7 damage 2 attacks, 8 with rend 2 dmg 3, can possibly move 3 times in 1 turn, that is insane and opens up different ways to avoid stuff like redeploy and unleash hell.

Brutes are just better than before, but a bit more costly, but seems fair, I dont mind that ardboyz got changed, they got cheaper and worse, but now are distinct from the other options, making the few Ironjaw units a bit more unique in their roles. The army can be surprisingly fast and also very very hard hitting, like crazy hard hitting, imagine 10 brutes with hackas and violent fury during a waagh, you got 21 attacks with rend 3 dmg 2, 6 attacks with rend 3 dmg 3 and 4 with rend 2 dmg 3, slap on an all out attack (or just attack something with 4+ wounds char) and they got an average output of 35 dmg vs 4+ saves... madness they will annihilate a Mega Gargant on the spot. During Waagh a Mawkrushas also deals an average of 27,5 vs 4+ saves with +1 to hit. These units will melt anything.

[Holy_Diver]

Damn... I really like this battletome!
Seems there are few enchantments than the past, but we have more units...


...and THE SLOGGOTH! 🤣

Edited September 11, 2021 by Holy_Diver

[Carnith]

I’ll have to make some lists but I’m feeling most of my lists didn’t change. I barely got to use the waaagh for +1 attack, let alone +2 attacks. I need to bring back my foot boss it seems. Sucks that big waaaagh nerfed. It would’ve been nice if each faction had a 1 in 4 bring one of the other clans with. 

[Malakree]

1 minute ago, Carnith said:

I’ll have to make some lists but I’m feeling most of my lists didn’t change. I barely got to use the waaagh for +1 attack, let alone +2 attacks. I need to bring back my foot boss it seems. Sucks that big waaaagh nerfed. It would’ve been nice if each faction had a 1 in 4 bring one of the other clans with. 

Ironjawz gets Smashing and Bashing, Ironjawz Waaagh! and the clan. Big Waaagh! gets waaagh! points and cross faction utility. Honestly I think they are about equal atm depending on how you want to build your list.

I'd say most Big Waaagh! lists should be getting ~5 WP a round before charges etc. When you add in charges etc. I'd say it's turn 3 you're going off but the list building is way less restrictive.

[Carnith]

3 Maw krushas, riptoofs

2 warchanters

2 ardboyz

1 brute

get an extra artifact and your 3 mawkrusha pretty much always fight in at a 2+ save

 

[Boggler]

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

Brutes

• Wait...Wait what. Enemy models with a wounds characteristic of 1 with 3" cannot contest objectives. Holy gods.

Are Morgok's Krushas now the best objective campers in the game?

[swarmofseals]

I'm 99% certain that you can't attack after a pile in from the Bloodtoofs ability or Mighty Destroyers. You guys are welcome to try to argue for this with your opponents, I just wouldn't recommend getting used to it.

___________

That being said, I am just as excited about the new IJs as I am about the new Bonesplitterz.

Maw Krushas: built in old version of Mean Un, and some of the mount traits are nice. I like Fast Un a lot -- gives enormous threat range and will really impact your opponent's deployment. The fact that rip toof fist makes the save 3+ (NOT +1 to save) is a huge difference. Being able to TRIPLE any command ability is incredibly strong. You can legit alpha with four units on turn 1 without relying on a casting roll now. You can All Out Attack or All Out Defense three units at once. You can Inspiring Presence three units at once.

Brutes: You Messin is a ridiculously powerful rule against some opponents. Gore Hackas at 2 rend are excellent. These guys are now fantastic against foot sloggers and big dudes alike.

Gore Gruntas: Efficient all around, amazing alpha potential.

Wierdnobs: less good now I think but cheaper

Foot Bosses: doubling commands is still very strong

Warchanters: still among the best buffs in the game

WAAAAAGH: extra rend is so huge now

Artefacts: Destroyer will still blow things up, and Amulet of Destiny is fantastic so I'm not too bent about the lack of choice

Command Traits: I'm not happy about these. Extra cp on 5+ from the core rules might be a good choice though given how much value IJ can get out of commands.

Subfactions: All three have a niche, and I'm really not sure what to use. I think Brutes or Ardboys armies clearly want to be Da Choppas. Bloodtoofs I'll need to play with to figure out how useful it is. It certainly could be very strong but also could be pretty situational. Ironsunz could be sneaky good, especially with a maw krusha general with the built in reroll charge trait.

Vs. Big Waaagh: Here's where I'm really not sure. You lose Smashing and Bashing and the Waaagh but gain the Waaagh point bonuses and can potentially grab some ranged threats from Kruleboyz. I think if you want to be super aggressive Ironjawz is better, but Big Waaagh might be better for a more midrange army.

[Boggler]

Here is a one drop, Alpha Strike list. I am sure you guys have played around with these combos of units. I'm not yet sold on the Traits. Amulet for the MBMK?

 

MBMK	1	480
Warchanter	1	115
Warchanter	1	115
GG's	3	150
GG's	3	150	Reinforced
GG's	3	150
GG's	3	150	Reinforced
Brutes	5	160	Gore Hackas
Brutes	5	160	Reinfoced
Ardboyz	5	85
Ardboys	5	85	Reinforced
Brutes	5	160	Brute Hackas
		1960

 

Reinforcement points really hurt Ardboys Rally spam. I'm sure I will pass the DPS check. Both weapons on the GG's are good options. Jagged Gore Hackas have better reach and you can attack units that are 5" behind a screen, if you manage to smash through the screen. 

[Orkmann]

1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:

I'm 99% certain that you can't attack after a pile in from the Bloodtoofs ability or Mighty Destroyers. You guys are welcome to try to argue for this with your opponents, I just wouldn't recommend getting used to it.

LOL, it's not really an argument, it is more like wishful thinking 😁 Letting go our beloved hero phase fighting is a tough process. Looking forward to see the faq.

[Malakree]

2 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

I'm 99% certain that you can't attack after a pile in from the Bloodtoofs ability or Mighty Destroyers. You guys are welcome to try to argue for this with your opponents, I just wouldn't recommend getting used to it.

The MD might get FaQ'd otherwise it's a pretty huge nerf. I can't see the bloodtoofs ever letting you attack, that would be bonkers.

2 hours ago, swarmofseals said:

Subfactions: All three have a niche, and I'm really not sure what to use. I think Brutes or Ardboys armies clearly want to be Da Choppas. Bloodtoofs I'll need to play with to figure out how useful it is. It certainly could be very strong but also could be pretty situational. Ironsunz could be sneaky good, especially with a maw krusha general with the built in reroll charge trait.

The fact that there is no downside to picking a subfaction makes them all great. Ironsunz is your standard, da choppas is for infantry focused builds while bloodtoofs is your gg focused builds. I love the current iteration of them, don't forget that while bloodtoofs/choppas are free utility with 0 cost the ironsunz is actually a CA. So if you trigger the Ironsunz CA off an MK you can charge with 3 units now not 1.

1 hour ago, Boggler said:

Reinforcement points really hurt Ardboys Rally spam. I'm sure I will pass the DPS check. Both weapons on the GG's are good options. Jagged Gore Hackas have better reach and you can attack units that are 5" behind a screen, if you manage to smash through the screen. 

EDIT: @Boggler you should be running bloodtoofs with that list and just drop the brutes/ardboys. Use the after combat move combined with alphastrike to seize control of the board.

EDIT2: After playing around with lists I think if I were doing a 1 drop alpha it would be this

Spoiler

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Bloodtoofs
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

Leaders
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (480)
- Use Mighty Destroyers a second time
Orruk Warchanter (115)
Orruk Warchanter (115)

Battleline
9 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (450)
- Reinforced x 2
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (300)
- Reinforced
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (300)
- Reinforced
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (150)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (85)

Total: 1995/ 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Wounds: 160
Drops: 1

As far as alphastrikes go this is top tier. Your opponent will be bogged down for at least the first 2 turns while you seize the board and really pressure.

I'd say the other viable lists are double cabbage and/or infantry heavy lists.

Edited September 11, 2021 by Malakree

[swarmofseals]

1 hour ago, Orkmann said:

LOL, it's not really an argument, it is more like wishful thinking 😁 Letting go our beloved hero phase fighting is a tough process. Looking forward to see the faq.

It's not wishful thinking I assure you.

[Warmill]

30 minutes ago, swarmofseals said:

It's not wishful thinking I assure you.

What a pile in is very clearly defined, it's 12.2. I'll cross my fingers for 'and attack' to be added to mighty destroyers but right now we ain't fighting in the hero phase anymore.

[Orkmann]

1 hour ago, swarmofseals said:

It's not wishful thinking I assure you.

I meant its wishful thinking on my part 😉

[Boggler]

2 hours ago, Malakree said:

@Boggler you should be running bloodtoofs with that list and just drop the brutes/ardboys. Use the after combat move combined with alphastrike to seize control of the board.

I really didn't think that I'd need another 6 GG's after this book came out... I went hard in to Brutes this past Summer LOL. To round out my army a bit more. I have 18 GG's, do I really need another 6? probably? I had 5 Brutes with Choppas, then I just made another 10 with 2HW

I am also interested in 2 x 15 Ardboys. Can the Megaboss use Rally on both? I haven't seen the exact wording of the warscroll yet.

[swarmofseals]

1 minute ago, Orkmann said:

I meant its wishful thinking on my part 😉

Ahh OK I see, thanks for the clarification!

One of the things that helped me get over the loss of hero phase combat and mad as hell is realizing how much easier it is for IJ to close now. Before we were banking on Hand of Gork + Mighty Destroyers to present a turn 1 threat most of the time, and puking on our own units to get them up the board. Now you can close with up to 4 units on turn 1 without having to resolve a spell or reliably move up a big chunk of your slower forces an extra 4" a turn. Hero phase fighting would be so good, but if we had to lose it in order to get Megabosses their command fork then I can live with that.

[swarmofseals]

5 minutes ago, Boggler said:

I am also interested in 2 x 15 Ardboys. Can the Megaboss use Rally on both? I haven't seen the exact wording of the warscroll yet.

Yes

[Orkmann]

To clarify my position, In general I'm happy with the changes for IJ. But losing hero the phase fighting is still a blow. It happens so often that a hammer unit like the cabbage stuck in combat with lets say 3 chainrasps and having no hero phase damage output means he is wasting a turn. 

[Warmill]

46 minutes ago, Boggler said:

I really didn't think that I'd need another 6 GG's after this book came out... I went hard in to Brutes this past Summer LOL. To round out my army a bit more. I have 18 GG's, do I really need another 6? probably? I had 5 Brutes with Choppas, then I just made another 10 with 2HW

I am also interested in 2 x 15 Ardboys. Can the Megaboss use Rally on both? I haven't seen the exact wording of the warscroll yet.

You could rally on both, but you only get the 4+ rally if it's the unit champion that issues it so a choice between rallying 2 on 6s or rallying 1 on 4+ 🤷‍♂️

[Carnith]

The more I think about it, the more I love our book. There's a lot of great in here. 

I wish artifacts were more exciting. My personal belief is the book options should be better than the universals, and I don't think that's the case here. 

[Bruteforce]

Unit points changes from what i can see

Unit	Size	Points
Brutes	5	160
Ardboyz	5	85
Megaboss	1	140
Warchanter	1	115
Weirdnob	1	90
Gordrakk	1	560
Megaboss on MK	1	480
Gore Gruntas	3	150

[Malakithe]

I would love to go ham on a Brutes heavy list

[Bruteforce]

1 hour ago, Malakithe said:

I would love to go ham on a Brutes heavy list

Groups of 10 with Megaboss extra -1 rend sounds like a nice way to stop some mega gargants