AoS 2 - Ironjawz Discussion

[broche]

Ironfist work with Big waaagh 😺

I'm not sure about brutish cunning tough given the errata

[PlayerJ]

23 minutes ago, broche said:

Ironfist work with Big waaagh 😺

I'm not sure about brutish cunning tough given the errata

If ironfist works, I'd safely assume brustish cunning would as well

[broche]

1 minute ago, PlayerJ said:

If ironfist works, I'd safely assume brustish cunning would as well

Yeah i think you're right in fact i misread the errata is on Ironfist not on Brutish cunning  

[Malakree]

32 minutes ago, broche said:

Ironfist work with Big waaagh 😺

I'm not sure about brutish cunning tough given the errata

It explicitly states that you can use the "Mighty Destroyers" command ability even though it is an Ironjawz battle trait.

As it's not a battle trait you can't use it ordinarily. However if something else can allow you to use it, ie. Ironfist or Brutish Cunning.

[Siepa]

5 hours ago, Skumbaagh said:

Buy another start collecting box! 😃 

... and a maw krusha. and then skip a warchanter and you are right at 1250.

Most 2000p competetive lists at least consists of:
1-2 MBMK (MBMK+Gordrakk)
1-2 Warchanters
0-1 Weirdnob shamans
0 megaboss on foot (who?)
3-6 pigs
10-20 ardboys
0-10 brutes

= 2 start collecting boxes and a MBMK are essential when growing to 2000p 

3 hours ago, Malakree said:

At least 1 more start collecting, possibly 2.

In my opinion the mawkrusha is the last thing you add to your army. Playing without it lets you get a feel for all the different units while also giving a solid variety of each unit to play with.

Also the mawkrusha is your centre piece, you want to spend time and care with it, not be rushing for a tournament.

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Orruk Warchanter (110)
Orruk Warchanter (110)

Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas
3 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (160)
- Pig-iron Choppas

Total: 900 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 82
 

That's 2 start collecting. A third would give you 30 ardboys and 9 gruntas. Or you could drop the second warchanter add 10 brutes and a megaboss on foot. This would give you a solid basis of each IJ unit type. The megaboss model, who is an iconic model as the entire army is based off it, and 2 warchanters.

Allegiance: Ironjawz

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- General
Orruk Warchanter (110)

Battleline
20 x Orruk Ardboys (360)
6 x Orruk Gore-gruntas (320)
- Pig-iron Choppas
10 x Orruk Brutes (280)
- Pair of Brute Choppas

Total: 1220 / 1250
Extra Command Points: 0
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 113
 

From here you can go in any direction you want to expand your force while also being able to get a feel for which units you like/dislike.

Thanks for help. I definitly buy 2nd start collecting and brutes and Orruk Megaboss.

 

[broche]

They errated Rip tooth fist for melee only, sad... (but 100% more logical)

A saw nothing about the realms gate tough did I missed it?

[dasnation]

Not that I saw. Looks like we are stuck w/o it.

[Malakree]

Looks like it's something you'll need to msg to's before taking a bloodtoofs list.

Some will probably house rule it.

[Malakithe]

Any major changes? Or just clean up and clarifications?

[TALegion]

It's great to hear that Ironfist and (supposedly) Brutish Cunning work in Big Waaagh lists. Two MDs per turn is probably about as much as you'd normally use in a turn anyway. It makes the argument for Big Waaagh lists much better, imo.

1 minute ago, Malakree said:

Looks like it's something you'll need to msg to's before taking a bloodtoofs list.

Some will probably house rule it.

Is it normal for tournaments to houserule things like this? I don't play competitively enough to know if that's a normal thing to ask for. It'd certainly make it easier to just make the ability a universal +2 to Waaagh, and bloodtoofs could certainly use it. Without the ability, they're almost certainly the weakest clan.

Would it be reasonable to bring your own realmgate and just ask if you're allowed to switch a terrain piece out for it in your games (seeing as you'd have been able to do that, had you set up the terrain yourself)?

[Kasper]

The Realmgate gives no benefit outside of the alligiance ability, and there is no way of disabling the bonus. Hence why we just house rule at our local that I get the bonus by default. Tbh this should just be the standard way of doing it - Ignore the Realmgate requirement.

[Martijn de Bruin]

51 minutes ago, broche said:

They errated Rip tooth fist for melee only, sad... (but 100% more logical)

A saw nothing about the realms gate tough did I missed it?

Yeah made sense.

Too bad this makes the Megaboss even worse. 

I love the model, shame it sucks so much 😢

[Skumbaagh]

1 hour ago, Siepa said:

Thanks for help. I definitly buy 2nd start collecting and brutes and Orruk Megaboss.

 

Those models are really great to paint. I am not going to advice against it, but I havent used the footboss in any game the last two years.  The maw krusha model is also so great to paint, play and fits in most lists. Magnetize the weapons and play it as either gordrakk or any of the Mbmk outputs. When you have tired of painting ardboys it's time to mix in something fun to paint, and the mbmk also takes quite some time to finish. 

[Kasper]

So the FAQ didnt eliminate Greenskinz from the Big Waaagh and didnt nerf the Orruk Warboss. I guess you will always take this dude since you wont have to suffer a cut in your points and risk losing the bonuses the following turn. 

Now it opens the question - Can you stack it with the Big Waaagh ability for +2 attacks in 1 round? The warscroll ability isnt the same ability, and it only mentions a model cant benefit twice from the warscroll Waaagh.

[Gothmaug]

They changed the warboss command and banner abilities. They are listed in the errata for general alliance : destruction

Page 11 – Orruk Warboss on Wyvern, Waaagh!

Change the rule to:
‘You can use this command ability in the combat phase. If you do so, until the end of that phase, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly Orruk units while they are wholly within 18" of a friendly model with this command ability. The same unit cannot benefit from this command ability more than once per turn.’

Page 12 – Orruk Warboss, Waaagh!

Change the rule to:
‘You can use this command ability in the combat phase. If you do so, until the end of that phase, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly Orruk units while they are wholly within 18" of a friendly model with this command ability. The same unit cannot benefit from this command ability more than once per turn.’

Page 12 – Orruk Warboss, Great Waaagh! Banner

Change the rule to:
‘An Orruk Warboss with a Great Waaagh! Banner gains the Totem keyword. You can re-roll wound rolls
of 1 for attacks made with melee weapons by friendly Orruk units while they are wholly within 16" of a friendly Orruk Warboss with a Great Waaagh! Banner.’

Pages 18-37 – Ironjawz and Bonesplitterz These warscrolls are no longer used. They have been replaced with the warscrolls in Battletome: Orruk Warclans.
Pages 53-76 – Moon

https://www.warhammer-community.com/wp-content/uploads/2018/07/age_of_sigmar_grand_alliance_destruction_errata_en-1.pdf

[Malakree]

17 minutes ago, Skumbaagh said:

Those models are really great to paint. I am not going to advice against it, but I havent used the footboss in any game the last two years.  The maw krusha model is also so great to paint, play and fits in most lists. Magnetize the weapons and play it as either gordrakk or any of the Mbmk outputs. When you have tired of painting ardboys it's time to mix in something fun to paint, and the mbmk also takes quite some time to finish. 

My big thing is that it's iconic, great fun to paint and useful in smaller scale tournaments/games like the one @Siepa was talking about. I'm supposed to be taking a melee component with a friends gunline to Chrimbobo. Much as I want a cabbage fitting one into means I'm criminally low on bodies/wounds.

I'm still deciding what list to take but I'm thinking it might be something daft like this.

Quote

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Mortal Realm: Hysh

Leaders
Orruk Megaboss (150)
- General
- Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Artefact: Great Green Visions
- Lore of the Weird: Wrath of Gork

Battleline
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)
5 x Orruk Ardboys (90)

Battalions
Ardfist (120)

Endless Spells / Terrain / CPs
Extra Command Point (50)

Total: 990 / 1000
Extra Command Points: 2
Wounds: 69

Start with 3 CP's, get an extra one each turn on a 4+ then use aetherquartz. Try to sling a unit of Ardboys into the opponent turn 1 and summon 50 Ardboys as a result. If I try to include a mawkrusha I'm gaining 5 Ardboys, losing the battalion, losing all other heroes and don't get the CP. For smaller scale games having a megaboss is going to be very useful with the new changes in the book.

[Newtype_Zero]

58 minutes ago, Malakree said:

My big thing is that it's iconic, great fun to paint and useful in smaller scale tournaments/games like the one @Siepa was talking about. I'm supposed to be taking a melee component with a friends gunline to Chrimbobo. Much as I want a cabbage fitting one into means I'm criminally low on bodies/wounds.

I'm still deciding what list to take but I'm thinking it might be something daft like this.

Start with 3 CP's, get an extra one each turn on a 4+ then use aetherquartz. Try to sling a unit of Ardboys into the opponent turn 1 and summon 50 Ardboys as a result. If I try to include a mawkrusha I'm gaining 5 Ardboys, losing the battalion, losing all other heroes and don't get the CP. For smaller scale games having a megaboss is going to be very useful with the new changes in the book.

Sadly, Ardboys are only Battleline is taken in squads of 10 or bigger.

[broche]

2 hours ago, TALegion said:

Would it be reasonable to bring your own realmgate and just ask if you're allowed to switch a terrain piece out for it in your games (seeing as you'd have been able to do that, had you set up the terrain yourself)?

Remember that RAW, each player alternate terrain piece (3 primary and 2 secondary each). The issue come more from the structure or tournament where table are usually fixed to save time. So as @Malakree mention, to use bloodtooth in tournament it's worth messaging the TO how they will handle this.

I suspect most will be fine with you substituing a terrain piece for a Realmgate. Anyway, you always need to recheck terrain each game because of the objectives distance rule.

[Luzgurbel]

With Bloodtoofs I won't ignore the Footboss anymore. You can teleport him anywhere you want, and for its cost can dish out a huge amount of damage, and can support troops that were launched by MD or Green Hand.

 

At first, I disliked at all Bloodtoofs, but now... I see them with other eyes.

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Newtype_Zero said:

Sadly, Ardboys are only Battleline is taken in squads of 10 or bigger.

Current consensus is that they are battleline in Ironjawz armies even in 5s.

Given the ambiguous nature of the pitched battle profile and the fact that warscroll builder views units of 5 as battleline for IJ, but not Big WAAAGH!, it will be upheld by the community until an FAQ says otherwise. 

[TALegion]

2 hours ago, Gothmaug said:

Page 11 – Orruk Warboss on Wyvern, Waaagh!

Change the rule to:
‘You can use this command ability in the combat phase. If you do so, until the end of that phase, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly Orruk units while they are wholly within 18" of a friendly model with this command ability. The same unit cannot benefit from this command ability more than once per turn.’

Page 12 – Orruk Warboss, Waaagh!

Change the rule to:
‘You can use this command ability in the combat phase. If you do so, until the end of that phase, add 1 to the Attacks characteristic of melee weapons used by friendly Orruk units while they are wholly within 18" of a friendly model with this command ability. The same unit cannot benefit from this command ability more than once per turn.’

Page 12 – Orruk Warboss, Great Waaagh! Banner

Change the rule to:
‘An Orruk Warboss with a Great Waaagh! Banner gains the Totem keyword. You can re-roll wound rolls
of 1 for attacks made with melee weapons by friendly Orruk units while they are wholly within 16" of a friendly Orruk Warboss with a Great Waaagh! Banner.’

So, if I'm interpreting this correctly, we're still able to bring and use the bannerboss in IJ and Big Waaagh lists? Of course we can't stack Waaaghs now, but that's much better than the alternative of not being able to bring the boss at all. It might still have potential if you stick it with a couple units of ardboyz, brutes, and WCs moving up the board.

[Newtype_Zero]

1 hour ago, Malakree said:

Current consensus is that they are battleline in Ironjawz armies even in 5s.

Given the ambiguous nature of the pitched battle profile and the fact that warscroll builder views units of 5 as battleline for IJ, but not Big WAAAGH!, it will be upheld by the community until an FAQ says otherwise. 

What? The Pitched Battle profile pretty clearly says "Battleline in Ironjawz or Big Waaagh! army if unit has 10 or models." What is ambiguous about that? It's most likely an error on WSB's part as the book and Azyr don't recognize units of 5 as Battleline for either army.

[Malakree]

1 hour ago, Newtype_Zero said:

What? The Pitched Battle profile pretty clearly says "Battleline in Ironjawz or Big Waaagh! army if unit has 10 or models." What is ambiguous about that? It's most likely an error on WSB's part as the book and Azyr don't recognize units of 5 as Battleline for either army.

Battleline in Ironjawz

or

Battleline in big waaagh 8f the unit has 10 or more models.

Hence ambiguous. 

Azyr is infamous for being garbage when it comes to accuracy. Warscroll builder is on the official gw site, very rarely in accurate and when it is will be updated incredibly quickly. Most tournaments in the UK except either but if they specify one it is ALWAYS warscroll builder not azyr.

Hence, even though I will check with TOs every time I would be confident that the majority of tournaments will uphold the IJ battleline in 5s until clarification is brought out.

EDIT: I've asked the on Twitter about thoughts/rulings. See what TOs and the tournament scene comes back with.

Edited October 22, 2019 by Malakree

[VonSmall]

7 hours ago, Malakree said:

Start with 3 CP's, get an extra one each turn on a 4+ then use aetherquartz. Try to sling a unit of Ardboys into the opponent turn 1 and summon 50 Ardboys as a result. 

Can you do that? If i'm understanding this right, you're talking about multiple tapping the command ability from the ard fist battalion when one unit dies to summon a load more? Doesn't seem right.

[Tezia99]

I’ve got a 1250 doubles tournament coming up and was wondering if you’d run this as an Ironsunz, choppaz, or none.  Partner has a couple different armies we’re thinking of pairing up with. Either gitz for an early alpha strike with MK and a unit of brutes port/fanatics port or Cities with a heavy shooting list and is flip to some ardboyz screen for him. 

   Hide contents

Allegiance: Ironjawz
- Warclan: Ironsunz
Mortal Realm: Hysh
Orruk Warchanter (110)
- Artefact: Aetherquartz Brooch 
- Warbeat: Get 'Em Beat
Megaboss on Maw-Krusha (460)
- General
- Boss Gore-hacka and Choppa
- Trait: Right Fist of Dakkbad  
- Artefact: Sunzblessed Armour  
- Mount Trait: Mean 'Un
Orruk Weirdnob Shaman (110)
- Lore of the Weird: Da Great Big Green Hand of Gork
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
5 x Orruk Brutes (140)
- Pair of Brute Choppas
Brute Fist (120)
The Burning Head (30)

Total: 1250 / 2000
Extra Command Points: 1
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 72

 

options include dropping aetherquartz for +1 to cast for the shaman. Burning head for palisade as well. Head sounded neat because I could keep it so I’m within 9” and get reroll hits of 1 but not damage myself. Or damage self and get some free moves as well. Or neither and just earn us a tribute. He said he can use a spell or ability as well and get -1 to hit so he’d be -2 in the first round. Lots of impact damage. I can keep porting brutes up the board each turn while the MK ties everything up and racks in SoV.
 

Edited October 22, 2019 by Tezia99