Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[Ar-Pharazôn]

Maybe instead of the very granular 40k, they simply do things by 5s instead of 10s. So for example; a standard liberator is x points, but the grandhammer makes it x+5 points. 

[SlaaneshCultist]

Really kinda shocked no one else here has pointed out the wording on this. Every 50 points that were not spent on units. Battalions aren't units...

Now, I do not in any way think that is the intent here, but I think it's going to need to be FAQ'd.

[Infeston]

6 minutes ago, SlaaneshCultist said:

Really kinda shocked no one else here has pointed out the wording on this. Every 50 points that were not spent on units. Battalions aren't units...

Now, I do not in any way think that is the intent here, but I think it's going to need to be FAQ'd.

Oh. I guess you are right it can be interpreted this way. I certainly hope not that this the way it was intended. 

[Killax]

Yeah Im not so happy with the above rule shown this time...

But perhaps we'll all be playing some kind of Games Workshop Pokemon anyway?

[Brightstar]

4 hours ago, Redmanphill said:

It’s hard to know of this is worth it or not...

I would say so. In the raw, you can now spend 100 points to get a battalion special ability and a command point or you can spend 100 points on two commamd points. Just depends on how you want to play it.

Like half a dozen people here have said its great to round things out.

Is the trade off still worth giving up a unit? Probably not. Its why people don't take battalions in the first place except in rare cases where they are usually game breaking. 

I like it because it gives more options and isn't forcing a particular play style. 

[Euphanism]

2 hours ago, SlaaneshCultist said:

Really kinda shocked no one else here has pointed out the wording on this. Every 50 points that were not spent on units. Battalions aren't units...

Now, I do not in any way think that is the intent here, but I think it's going to need to be FAQ'd.

Can you imagine if it wasn't, though? Suddenly all those expensive Nurgle battalions are a lot more interesting...

Also I had a chuckle at the fact that GW will need to FAQ their previews. Never change, boys.

[Kamose]

30 minutes ago, Euphanism said:

Also I had a chuckle at the fact that GW will need to FAQ their previews. Never change, boys.

This is a very good example of why doing previews is a good thing. Hopefully people are pointing this out on their FB page and they can make changes. Truthfully I'd be amazed if they weren't being told this A LOT with all the tact and calm rationality the Internet is known for.

As for the books, I'm sure they're fine. Gotta get 'em hooked young after all! Since they're for younger readers they're prolly not crammed with cannibalism and dismemberment. However it might be interesting to read about AoS and 40k from the perspective of young children. When has any Black Library book told a story like that? Also don't knock children's books. Some of the most utterly brutal stories are in kid's books. They have to learn early that life is BRUTAL PAIN, BETRAYAL, AND DEATH, AND YOU WILL LIKE IT! 

[NurglesFirstChosen]

2 hours ago, SlaaneshCultist said:

Really kinda shocked no one else here has pointed out the wording on this. Every 50 points that were not spent on units. Battalions aren't units...

Now, I do not in any way think that is the intent here, but I think it's going to need to be FAQ'd.

I thought this very thing, and then someone pointed me towards the matched play points page of the battletomes.

[HorticulusTGA]

About the rule wording problem above : like 40k they'll surely release a Designers' Commentary when the new Core Book is released. It may answer questions like those. 

Oh and a little visual of the new AOS Shadespire warbands : if the rumor was true, this should have been their only forms.

[TheOtherJosh]

The Command points for a unit may be how they address handing out Artefacts after that first “freebie.”

Still waiting for the full breakdown on the rest of the rules. Expect that all to be announced within the next month. 

At least we know that there won’t be any Battalions they cost less than 50 points. (That has been identified in the article.)

[TheWilddog]

Any word on the price point of the Shadespire sets with just the models?  I have been holding out on a few of these but this will probably get me to open up the old wallet.

[SlaaneshCultist]

9 minutes ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:

I thought this very thing, and then someone pointed me towards the matched play points page of the battletomes.

I still think it's going to need a FAQ, as people will argue it even if battalions are listed with units in the force organization chart. Another example is reinforcement points. While it seems likely that reinforcement points go the way of the dodo, if they are not completely removed that's another example where you are paying points, just not for units.

I'm definitely not a sky is falling kinda guy, and recognize that we're only seeing a tiny portion of the overall rules, but I would have preferred if they had made the rule something along the lines of “additional command points can be purchased before the game begins at 50 points per command point.” just so any confusion is removed.

 

[Arkiham]

3 hours ago, daedalus81 said:

This is probably unpopular, but i'd love to pay for my equipment instead of automatically taking all the best things per unit.

yeah that just leads to even more efficient builds 

[NurglesFirstChosen]

Just now, SlaaneshCultist said:

I still think it's going to need a FAQ, as people will argue it even if battalions are listed with units in the force organization chart. Another example is reinforcement points. While it seems likely that reinforcement points go the way of the dodo, if they are not completely removed that's another example where you are paying points, just not for units.

I'm definitely not a sky is falling kinda guy, and recognize that we're only seeing a tiny portion of the overall rules, but I would have preferred if they had made the rule something along the lines of “additional command points can be purchased before the game begins at 50 points per command point.” just so any confusion is removed.

 

I don’t believe reinforcements points will exist. 

I get your point though, as I said i believed battalions werent included in pts spent on units either. That being said, based on how battalions are listed under units, I doubt it’s the case.  Still though given the steep price of the majority of the Maggotkins battalions (at the moment), id be very happy if it was. 

 

[SlaaneshCultist]

1 minute ago, NurglesFirstChosen said:

I don’t believe reinforcements points will exist. 

I get your point though, as I said i believed battalions werent included in pts spent on units either. That being said, based on how battalions are listed under units, I doubt it’s the case.  Still though given the steep price of the majority of the Maggotkins battalions (at the moment), id be very happy if it was. 

 

Oh I absolutely think you are correct, and I think it'd be ludicrous otherwise (My Khorne runs 2 battalions at 360 points. I'd start the game with 9 command points! Lol!). I'm just saying that the current wording will lead to a certain demographic of player arguing it, and that a FAQ can head those arguments off before they even begin.

[Aelfric]

I'd like to make a prediction for the new edition:-

" If your General is slain, you may nominate another hero from your allegiance to be your General ".

 

[AlphaKennyThing]

28 minutes ago, SlaaneshCultist said:

Oh I absolutely think you are correct, and I think it'd be ludicrous otherwise (My Khorne runs 2 battalions at 360 points. I'd start the game with 9 command points! Lol!). I'm just saying that the current wording will lead to a certain demographic of player arguing it, and that a FAQ can head those arguments off before they even begin.

'Ere we bloody go! Generally, players from said demographic deserve a firm karate chop right in the forehead for such nonsense.

They already said battalions give you an extra CP, they're hardly going to mean that you can see how many times you can squeeze 50 into the cost of all your battalions and award yourself that many extra CPs. I know Games Workshop could word stuff better at times, but at what point do we, as gamers, need to engage a bit of common sense, too? 

[BURF1]

4 hours ago, Ar-Pharazôn said:

Maybe instead of the very granular 40k, they simply do things by 5s instead of 10s. So for example; a standard liberator is x points, but the grandhammer makes it x+5 points. 

That's a zero sum change unless you make the grandhammer too expensive to be worth it you're going to take it every single time.

The granular points system barely works in 40k because you have different loadouts that accomplish different things, do I want to take 5 stormbolters or 5 melta guns? In AoS it would come down to 'is this upgrade worth its points to use Y/N?' There is nothing to be gained by making AoS units pay for their equipment.

[BURF1]

6 hours ago, Elmir said:

Very true... But they should be quite mindful of it! IF ( that's still a big IF) summoning is supposedly limited to alternate resources now (blood tithe points, contaigion points, command points etc), FEC can really do insane things through some of their battalion warscolls and this 50p rule :

Slap a royal family in there, combined with attendants at court (costing 270p currently, granted) and keep 150p left over points, you can really slap the pain on there by starting with 6CP... 

Start off with GKoTG, 2 ghoul kings, Crypt haunter courtier, 2 min units of crypt horrors, 3 min units of ghouls, giving you a baseline of 1690p. Slap a varghulf in there, have 150p less than 2k and start going crazy by using those 6CP to summon in other units. 

Your general can now summon more ghoul kings (up to 3 with majestic horror if that remains the same) per turn until you reach 6 (for 4CP) or 3 units of Crypt horrors/flayers  because a regular battle can then generate up to 12 CP for an FEC lists. Or hell, summon 2 units of crypt horrors with a GK to go with it on one flank or even the opponents backline if he's left a big enough gap per turn for up to 3 turns in a row. 

You could be talking about summoning in an additional 1500-2000p in a weird snowball effect? That's why I'm quite curious how they are going to change this faction. 

 

Personally I think summoning should have been axed from the game in GHB1. It's never been good across 3 different game systems. Every time they try to do summoning it always ends up in one of three camps:

It's powerful, but the army is so weak around it to make up for the power of summoning, it becomes binary and frustrating(WHFB)

Stupidly OP. Gamebreaking nonsense to the point where any army that can't summon is pointless(7th40k, Vanilla AoS)

Niche to the point of going almost unused(Current AoS, 8th 40k)

[Carnelian]

10 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

That's a zero sum change unless you make the grandhammer too expensive to be worth it you're going to take it every single time.

The granular points system barely works in 40k because you have different loadouts that accomplish different things, do I want to take 5 stormbolters or 5 melta guns? In AoS it would come down to 'is this upgrade worth its points to use Y/N?' There is nothing to be gained by making AoS units pay for their equipment.

Its not a zero sum change - which doesn't mean what you may think it means, given your usage of it, but even if it did mean the change effectively had zero impact (which i guess is what you meant) then that would still not be correct since it would mean that if you only have the liberator models from the starter set you pay a reduced amount of points and thus have more points to spend on other models.

[BURF1]

1 minute ago, Carnelian said:

Its not a zero sum change - which doesn't mean what you may think it means, given your usage of it, but even if it did mean the change effectively had zero impact (which i guess is what you meant) then that would still not be correct since it would mean that if you only have the liberator models from the starter set you pay a reduced amount of points and thus have more points to spend on other models.

 

This is a totally irrelevant concern for 2 reasons 1. If you only have models from the starter set, how efficiently you're using your models is absolutely irrelevant. A player that continues on with just the baseline push-fits is going to get nothing out of a more granular balance system simply because they lack the experience or resources to take advantage of it and 2. Paying a reduced amount of points to thus have more points to spend on other models is just a pointlessly drawn out way of saying 'you'll take it unless it's not worth taking.'

All you've managed to do here is play language police and copy MY point like it disproves something.

[Richelieu]

5 hours ago, Christopher Rowe said:

RoboCop is the one I remember. Or think I remember. That was a long time ago.

If you haven't seen RoboCop in awhile you should.  It is absolutely brutal.  The scene where Murphy gets shot up before becoming RoboCop is gruesome.  Paul Verhoeven cranked out some great dystopian films in the 80s and 90s.

And what great one liners! Arnold in Total Recall: "Consider this a divorce." Right before he shoots his fake wife... Classic.

[Mandzak-Miniatures]

16 minutes ago, Richelieu said:

If you haven't seen RoboCop in awhile you should.  It is absolutely brutal.  The scene where Murphy gets shot up before becoming RoboCop is gruesome.  Paul Verhoeven cranked out some great dystopian films in the 80s and 90s.

And what great one liners! Arnold in Total Recall: "Consider this a divorce." Right before he shoots his fake wife... Classic.

and then you watch RoboCop three, the scene where he shoots a pistol out of someones hand and proceeds to juggle shoot it. Probably encapsulates the entire franchise.

[Richelieu]

5 minutes ago, Mandzak-Miniatures said:

and then you watch RoboCop three, the scene where he shoots a pistol out of someones hand and proceeds to juggle shoot it. Probably encapsulates the entire franchise.

You should watch the Key and Peele sketch about the making of Gremlins 2.  It perfectly encapsulates the absurdity of 1980s sequels.

[Carnelian]

59 minutes ago, BURF1 said:

 

This is a totally irrelevant concern for 2 reasons 1. If you only have models from the starter set, how efficiently you're using your models is absolutely irrelevant. A player that continues on with just the baseline push-fits is going to get nothing out of a more granular balance system simply because they lack the experience or resources to take advantage of it and 2. 

I played with the starter set liberators only until october last year using first the original south coast comp and then matched play points because I prioritised buying other more exotic units over liberators and I certainly lacked neither the experience or the resources to have enjoyed an army comp system that reflected the fact that I wasn't getting the full value our of my liberators compared to other people's non-starter set liberators, so your suggestion that by somehow continuing to use starter set models means that efficiency was irrelevant to me is plain wrong. I don't think what I'm suggesting is particularly controversial.