Age of Sigmar: Second Edition

[RuneBrush]

++MOD HAT++

The first turn priority discussion cannot be resolved on here because there are very valid arguments that both ways are legitimate.  This is the THIRD time I've had to post this.

We're all fairly confident that this will be cleared up in the OFFICIAL FAQs that are due 2 weeks after the new edition lands, until that or another official update appears, feel free to come to an agreement with your opponent.

Any further discussion will be either hidden and/or receive warning points.

[Infeston]

14 minutes ago, Kamose said:

I'ma be honest, I agree with you.  Nearly everyone agrees with you and most people who don't agree with you still wish your interpretation was correct.  But here's the problem,  This is the internet and we're discussing something unimportant.  People will debate anything ad nauseam.  

I've watched gamers online debate the definition of the word "a" when used as an article.  Some claimed it meant "one of something" and some claimed it meant "more than one of something".  The definition of the article "a" is "one" (period; hard stop; end of sentence) yet the debate couldn't be settled.

Frankly, debating anything on the internet is like counting sand grains.  It never ends, it achieves nothing, and its a waste of time.

I don't agree with your statement. It is not something that only occurs in the internet. It just becomes more visible because of the internet. 

But everywhere and everytime people discuss words and ideas. This is not something which only exists since the birth of the internet.

Everytime a person in a scientific community publishes an article he always has to clear up the words and terms he uses at the beginning of the paper. And when there are political and scientific debates they are more than often about the meaning and intention of certain words. Because in the end these words can make a big impact.

Some people even evade taxes, because they twist or change the meaning of words. Some people also get jailed or not depending how good their lawyers can interpret and change the situation according to the wordings in laws.

So I have to disagree that debating something on the internet is a waste of time. Because debating and discussing words, terms and definitions was always a part of human culture and will alwyays be. 

It is just that these topics aren't discussed in small rooms with few people anymore. Because of the internet everyone can participate in the discussions and there are also no time limits, like in real life. People can begin an argument on one day and still discuss the topic a few days later. 

If real life discussions wouldn't be this exhausting and time consuming people would certainly also debate the same way if they could. 

 

Edit: @RuneBrush Sorry. I began to write my post before you posted yours. So please don't think I ignored your post. It was just that I took a long time to write this down and was finished with this after you had posted this. So please, no warning points. ? 

[stratigo]

On 6/24/2018 at 9:19 AM, mikethefish said:

 

Gunhaulers at 160 are easily worth their points - especially in Escort Wing.  You will be seeing a bit more of them in the new edition.

 

You're straight wrong.

 

The escort wing is a nonstarter.

[Zetsu20]

[Sleboda]

7 hours ago, AaronWIlson said:

tend to play RaW

There's nothing wrong with playing the game. Rules define a game. By using the rules, you are playing the game.

Good on ya.

[robinlvalentine]

The full article introducing these guys and showing their warscrolls is up now! https://www.warhammer-community.com/2018/06/25/25th-june-heroes-of-the-nighthauntgw-homepage-post-4/

[mikethefish]

14 minutes ago, stratigo said:

 

You're straight wrong.

 

The escort wing is a nonstarter.

Cool story - your opinions have been noted!

[Sleboda]

4 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

The problem is effectively  the size of the units. With 2 boxes, this problem kinda dispears for less than buying individual unit compliments

In curious about this. I watched a review of 2.0 yesterday, and the guy kept referring to the "mistakes" GW made with the units sizes and point costs, and how they will need to "fix" it.

I don't get it.

The stuff in the Soul Wars set is fine as is. What's wrong with the unit sizes?

[Beliman]

I find it fun that the one that is sitting in a throne, with his minions carrying a flag and a medieval trumpet is the hard hitting melee character and the one that is charging  with a flying horse and a scythe bigger than himself is an hybrid between a mage and bruiser.

Btw, 10/10 models.

[GeneralZero]

3 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Btw, 10/10 models.

no you're wrong: 11/10 models (at least) especially the last one, the flying horse. just WOW

[Sleboda]

2 hours ago, GeneralZero said:

 

It is really confused as we have now officially to put the correct round base... (For this, GW does a big mess: look at the last  "Warhammer Age of Sigmar – What Should I Pick Up?" article in the WH community: most of heros are squared base. WTF GW??? )

There's nothing wrong here. No WTF moment. GW themselves addressed base sizes in a recent community article. In it they clearly stated that you can put your models on any base you like. Period. End of story.

They went on to say that they will put it a list of recommended base sizes for those that want to use it, but the statement was pretty clear. Use whatever base you want.

My Skaven can "officially" remain in squares, even in 2.0 (for example).

[Jamopower]

Yeah, plenty of AoS stuff still comes on squares when you get them from the shop, so it would be quite ankward for them to ban them. 

[AverageBoss]

1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

In curious about this. I watched a review of 2.0 yesterday, and the guy kept referring to the "mistakes" GW made with the units sizes and point costs, and how they will need to "fix" it.

I don't get it.

The stuff in the Soul Wars set is fine as is. What's wrong with the unit sizes?

What you get in Soul Wars / Minimum unit size in GHB

Sequitors: 8 / 5
Castigators: 5 / 3
Evocators: 3 / 5
Stalkers: 5 / 4
Reapers: 4 / 10

With the Sequitors, you can fix this via the 3 extra snapfit models you can buy separately. You will have 1 extra model, and be short on one allowed greatmace for a 10 man unit, or short 2 if you run two 5 man units however.

There is a 3 man Castigator snapfit box on the way. But that does not fix anything. You are just stuck with 2 extra models, 1 short of a unit, forever.

You are 2 short on an Evocator unit. I do expect an easy to build box sooner, rather than later for these guys though.

You have an extra Stalker. Spare parts I guess.

Reapers are in the worst position though. Eve with another Soul Wars box, you are still 2 models short of a unit, and that is after some conversion/kit bash work on the 2nd bell guy (only 1 per unit).

They really should have gone with 2 less Castigators, 2 more Sequitors, 1 less Stalker, and 1 more Reaper.

[GeneralZero]

While we are speaking about minis, what's about the 3 new NH heros introduced completely today: do GW keep up the tradition of multi kit on those Intermediate/almost-big sized miniatures?  Making them Named hero+another named one or Named+generic one?

I hope so...

 

More of this, where are the NH generic (non named char) Heavy hitters? (like a Dracothian or a Harbringer  those big elite units etc..)

[Sleboda]

1 hour ago, AverageBoss said:

What you get in Soul Wars / Minimum unit size in GHB

Ohhhhh! So really only a problem for matched play, and even then only if you are playing beyond the starter set. Understanding is that the unit sizes and points costs listed in the starter are for the mini campaign booklet. I could be wrong.

So, a new player, getting the starter set, is really completely fine playing happily with what's in the box, right? No mistake made by GW that needs to be "fixed" at all?

[AverageBoss]

Just now, Sleboda said:

Ohhhhh! So really only a problem for matched play, and even then only if you are playing beyond the starter set.

So, a new player, getting the starter set, is really completely fine playing happily with what's in the box, right? No mistake made by GW that needs to be "fixed" at all?

Well that depends. In my local area there have been several people who are interested in starting AoS, but have lost (or no) interest in the Soul Wars box due to this issue. 40K player especially looking at the game see the box as a ripoff compared to their own starter, which can be played as is, in any mode of play.

[AverageBoss]

37 minutes ago, GeneralZero said:

While we are speaking about minis, what's about the 3 new NH heros introduced completely today: do GW keep up the tradition of multi kit on those Intermediate/almost-big sized miniatures?  Making them Named hero+another named one or Named+generic one?

I hope so...

 

More of this, where are the NH generic (non named char) Heavy hitters? (like a Dracothian or a Harbringer  those big elite units etc..)

Given the list of units for Nighhaunt out of the GHB, the models we have seen, and how unique these sculpts look...

I think its safe to say that each of these 3 kits are fully unique 1 of a kind, single build models in the same way Archaon and Nagash are.

[Sleboda]

I suppose there's no pleasing some folks. Soul Wars looks like a great deal, loaded with cool minis and fantastic production quality.  If some people see it as a rip-off, I'm not sure what could be done to make them non-bitter.

"Grumble, grumble ... I just got handed a million dollars ... grumble grumble ... How am I going to carry it all home? Grumble grumble."

 

I think I might be getting old. When I was in my 20's, I was hyper focused on everything being just so. Now I'm coming up on 50, and all I really want is pretty toys and a nice single-malt. I really prefer Open Play, so the box looks great to me.

[Infeston]

13 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

I suppose there's no pleasing some folks. Soul Wars looks like a fantastic deal, loaded with cool minis and fantastic production quality.  If some people see it as a rip-off, I'm not sure what could be done to make them non-bitter.

"Grumble, grumble ... I just got handed a million dollars ... grumble grumble ... How am I going to carry it all home? Grumble grumble."

 

I think I might be getting old. When I was in my 20's, I was hyper focused on everything being just so. Now I'm coming up on 50, and all I really want is pretty toys and a nice single-malt. I really prefer Open Play, so the box looks great to me.

I don't know if this has necessarily something to do with age. ? I am in my late 20s and sometimes also feel the way you described. ? 

I also don't think playing with toys would be considered as the behaviour of an old man. ? And i also like to get me a good single malt whiskey. Or maybe good and nice pale ale. ? 

But on the other hand the youth is usually more critical than the older generation. In the end we need critical thinkers as much as optimists in this time and age. ? 

[Aelfric]

2 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

What you get in Soul Wars / Minimum unit size in GHB

Sequitors: 8 / 5
Castigators: 5 / 3
Evocators: 3 / 5
Stalkers: 5 / 4
Reapers: 4 / 10

With the Sequitors, you can fix this via the 3 extra snapfit models you can buy separately. You will have 1 extra model, and be short on one allowed greatmace for a 10 man unit, or short 2 if you run two 5 man units however.

There is a 3 man Castigator snapfit box on the way. But that does not fix anything. You are just stuck with 2 extra models, 1 short of a unit, forever.

You are 2 short on an Evocator unit. I do expect an easy to build box sooner, rather than later for these guys though.

You have an extra Stalker. Spare parts I guess.

Reapers are in the worst position though. Eve with another Soul Wars box, you are still 2 models short of a unit, and that is after some conversion/kit bash work on the 2nd bell guy (only 1 per unit).

They really should have gone with 2 less Castigators, 2 more Sequitors, 1 less Stalker, and 1 more Reaper.

You have 16 Stormcast models, which can make 2 5-man units and 2 3-man units.   A bit of conversion work should resolve the problem.  I have my Milliput at the ready (other putty  brands are available).

[Freejack02]

1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

I suppose there's no pleasing some folks. Soul Wars looks like a fantastic deal, loaded with cool minis and fantastic production quality.  If some people see it as a rip-off, I'm not sure what could be done to make them non-bitter.

What could be done is quite simple - fill the box unit sizes with Matched Play in mind. Open and Narrative don't have any restrictive rules to adhere to, so why not put in the effort and actually make it conform to the standards of the (likely) most popular format? Voila, 3/3 play styles can now all be happy and fawn over how amazing the models look!

[Richelieu]

1 hour ago, Sleboda said:

and all I really want is pretty toys and a nice single-malt

Give me the peatiest, most medicinal Islay and I'm happy (my wife sure isn't though "I can smell that from across the room!").  

[GeneralZero]

2 hours ago, AverageBoss said:

Given the list of units for Nighhaunt out of the GHB, the models we have seen, and how unique these sculpts look...

that means that you know what are all the missing units/characters. So, what are they? That leads me to my second quistion:  where are the NH generic (non named char) Heavy hitters? (like a Dracothian or a Harbringer  those big elite units etc..)

I'd be super disapointed if all those new hero kits were single build only. They should be multi-kit! Look at the recent releases: Idoneth Deppkin are all multi kits.

 

[Sleboda]

41 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

What could be done is quite simple - fill the box unit sizes with Matched Play in mind. Open and Narrative don't have any restrictive rules to adhere to, so why not put in the effort and actually make it conform to the standards of the (likely) most popular format? Voila, 3/3 play styles can now all be happy and fawn over how amazing the models look!

Sure, they could.

I kinda like them leading people to think differently, tbh. Open the box. Play the mini narrative campaign. Play some open games.

Matched play gamers tend to have massive collections anyway so they have all the "best" options for all situations. They'll be fine.

Heck, my Tomb Kings army was over 20,000 points by the End Times. I had 5 different army standard bearer models, just for different color schemes or equipment options, and you could only ever use one in a given game. A stray model here and there in a starter box doesn't really seem so bad to me.

[Freejack02]

3 minutes ago, Sleboda said:

Matched play gamers tend to have massive collections anyway so they have all the "best" options for all situations.

And what about all the potential new gamers they would love to attract with this pretty new set? I'm sure they are as thrilled as all the other Matched Play enthusiasts at the news of needing 2-3 boxes just to make a single legal unit size. 

They've designed the miniatures and aesthetics fantastically. They've marketed it well by all accounts. Why couldn't they just sit down with the rules/matched team and say "Ok, does anything in here not work well from the start - because for once we'd like to avoid a very avoidable fiasco."