Lets Chat: Idoneth Deepkin

[WoollyMammoth]

I'm just going to call it right now. Everyone and their mother at every tournament is going to have aspect of the sea + vortex with a thrall or some kind of bubble nearby. 

Eidolon cannot be shot, cannot be charged, and hes giving D6 units within 24" -1 to hit/-1 bravery. Then he cast Tide of Fear to do it to another unit. 

In Ionrach he will be +2 to cast + he re-rolls a failed cast. 

Then you can take the Tidecaster for another -1 to hit spell and throw on Augury Shells for a permanent -1 to hit/-1 to cast on any hero that gets too close. 

For those of you counting that is up to nine -1 hit buffs at once. Welcome to the age of idoneth cheese. The only army that can compete with this is going to be the mortal wound insanity of Tzeentch. The +2 to dispel is not often going to work on Tzeentch's average roll of 13 to cast. Magic is the only thing that can do anything to this army.   

The top tables will be funny with all mirror match idoneth where both armies are hitting eachother on 6s. 

 

[Drofnum]

11 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

I'm just going to call it right now. Everyone and their mother at every tournament is going to have aspect of the sea + vortex with a thrall or some kind of bubble nearby. 

Eidolon cannot be shot, cannot be charged, and hes giving D6 units within 24" -1 to hit/-1 bravery. Then he cast Tide of Fear to do it to another unit. 

In Ionrach he will be +2 to cast + he re-rolls a failed cast. 

Then you can take the Tidecaster for another -1 to hit spell and throw on Augury Shells for a permanent -1 to hit/-1 to cast on any hero that gets too close. 

For those of you counting that is up to nine -1 hit buffs at once. Welcome to the age of idoneth cheese. The only army that can compete with this is going to be the mortal wound insanity of Tzeentch. The +2 to dispel is not often going to work on Tzeentch's average roll of 13 to cast. Magic is the only thing that can do anything to this army.   

The top tables will be funny with all mirror match idoneth where both armies are hitting eachother on 6s. 

 

A balewind change is needed anyway, great way to push for GW to notice that.

[Pompe]

26 minutes ago, WoollyMammoth said:

I'm just going to call it right now. Everyone and their mother at every tournament is going to have aspect of the sea + vortex with a thrall or some kind of bubble nearby. 

Eidolon cannot be shot, cannot be charged, and hes giving D6 units within 24" -1 to hit/-1 bravery. Then he cast Tide of Fear to do it to another unit. 

In Ionrach he will be +2 to cast + he re-rolls a failed cast. 

Then you can take the Tidecaster for another -1 to hit spell and throw on Augury Shells for a permanent -1 to hit/-1 to cast on any hero that gets too close. 

For those of you counting that is up to nine -1 hit buffs at once. Welcome to the age of idoneth cheese. The only army that can compete with this is going to be the mortal wound insanity of Tzeentch. The +2 to dispel is not often going to work on Tzeentch's average roll of 13 to cast. Magic is the only thing that can do anything to this army.   

The top tables will be funny with all mirror match idoneth where both armies are hitting eachother on 6s. 

 

Or an 18" cover bubble. Or a 12" diameter that does D3 mortal wound if you roll below the number of models!

[Cam3lot]

1 hour ago, WoollyMammoth said:

I'm just going to call it right now. Everyone and their mother at every tournament is going to have aspect of the sea + vortex with a thrall or some kind of bubble nearby. 

Eidolon cannot be shot, cannot be charged, and hes giving D6 units within 24" -1 to hit/-1 bravery. Then he cast Tide of Fear to do it to another unit. 

In Ionrach he will be +2 to cast + he re-rolls a failed cast. 

Then you can take the Tidecaster for another -1 to hit spell and throw on Augury Shells for a permanent -1 to hit/-1 to cast on any hero that gets too close. 

For those of you counting that is up to nine -1 hit buffs at once. Welcome to the age of idoneth cheese. The only army that can compete with this is going to be the mortal wound insanity of Tzeentch. The +2 to dispel is not often going to work on Tzeentch's average roll of 13 to cast. Magic is the only thing that can do anything to this army.   

The top tables will be funny with all mirror match idoneth where both armies are hitting eachother on 6s. 

 

I dunno if this will be the case. I suggested this earlier on and someone, can't remember who ?, pointed out that it's 540 points for an Aspect of the Sea on a Balewind. It's a really hefty investment that may not give an adequate return.

[Amradiel]

I am going to build a 1000 point list to start with. Does anyone have some pointers to build a tough  as nails list at that level. Thinking with their full range, not just the ones who are released already. 

[DantePQ]

2 minutes ago, Amradiel said:

I am going to build a 1000 point list to start with. Does anyone have some pointers to build a tought as nails list at that level. Thinking with their full range, not just the ones who are released already. 

I would go with TideCasterx2 , 30 Thralls, 6 Ishalena Guard , 10 Thralls 

[scrollbuilderdude]

Hi everyone! 

First off, Warscroll Builder now has Idoneth on it. Go check it!

Second, I am super, super, super excited about this faction. Been building lists forever, eagerly awaiting preorders and testing out paint schemes. Finished my LoN just in time for these dudes and I'm ready to get playing!

First game I played vs Nurgle. My list was:

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
- Enclave: Nautilar

Leaders
Vulturnos, High King of the Deep (280)
- General
Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Sea (440)
- Artefact: Sands of Infinity 
- Lore of the Deeps: Abyssal Darkness

Battleline
6 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (280)
6 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (280)
6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (320)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (160)

Units
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
- Allies
5 x Khinerai Heartrenders (80)
- Allies
5 x Tree-Revenants (80)
- Allies

Total: 2000 / 2000
Allies: 240 / 400
Wounds: 119
 

Nurgle list was mostly Mortals with a wizard casting mortal wound blades. Got turn one charged by 15 Nurgle knights who had all kinds of fun buffs/debuffs, but luckily he didn't get Blades off. The Idoneth repelled the charge soundly, with my activating my mortal wound blast shields before the knights hit, and with my turn 1 cover save to help keep me alive.

Heartrenderers + Aspect of Sea allowed me to snipe out the blades caster turn 2, and after that things went very well for me. Turn 3 with Vulturnos' command  on Morrsarr Guard, combined with Nautilar bonus was bonkers!  (edit: played this wrong! Nautilar is only when you are charged.  )

Things I'd change? More Morrsarr Guard! While the Ishlaen held things down (and put out a suprising amount of damage back), I like the potential damage of the Morrsarr more. Tree revs didn't do anything (played duality of death). so I'd lose them as well.

Love this army and looking forward to see what other people come up with and how it does on the table!

-Tony

[BillyOcean]

8 minutes ago, scrollbuilderdude said:

Turn 3 with Vulturnos' command  on Morrsarr Guard, combined with Nautilar bonus was bonkers! 

Can you talk a little about how you made use of Nautilar? I'm still confused about how to get work out of it. We get so many innate bonuses from charging (save for Ishlaen, damage for Morsarr), and the Nautilar bonus seems to work counter to that. So did you just let everyone charge you turn 3 and then hit back harder?

[scrollbuilderdude]

8 minutes ago, BillyOcean said:

Can you talk a little about how you made use of Nautilar? It confuses me a little. We get so many bonuses from charging (save for Ishlaen, damage for Morsarr), and the Nautilar bonus seems to work counter to that. So did you just let everyone charge you turn 3 and then hit back harder?

Since we were playing Duality, he had a Nurgle Lord dude on Daemonic Steed holding onto a point, and I was able to charge him turn 3.

I was only able to get two Morrsarr (one being the champ) into base to base with him, but with Volturnos' Command (+1 attack to all melee wepons), and rerolling all hits, my two eels were able to put out enough damage to kill him.  I believe I actually charged him with two seperate units (one only had one guy left), so it might have been two champs who got in. 

The units were outside of the "wholly within 18" ", so they weren't able to gain the reroll buff from King V, which is where Nautilar helped.

[BillyOcean]

14 minutes ago, scrollbuilderdude said:

I believe I actually charged him with two seperate units

But with Nautilar, you only get to reroll when attacking an enemy unit that made a charge. Not when your unit made a charge. Right?

[scrollbuilderdude]

1 minute ago, BillyOcean said:

But with Nautilar, you only get to reroll when attacking an enemy unit that made a charge. Not when your unit made a charge. Right?

You are absolutely correct! Oops...

[Skabnoze]

Anyone else feeling very disappointed by the Allopex unit profile?  The sea-beasts were really what interested me about this army, and the unit entry for a giant shark seems just really really meh...

[Richelieu]

55 minutes ago, Cam3lot said:

I dunno if this will be the case. I suggested this earlier on and someone, can't remember who ?, pointed out that it's 540 points for an Aspect of the Sea on a Balewind. It's a really hefty investment that may not give an adequate return.

It was me.

When evaluating the strength of a given tactic, I tend to think about it in terms of what I would do if I was facing such an army composition.  Think about the additional points investment that will be required to hold objectives.  So in addition to the 540 points that aren't damaging my army, you'll have another 200-300 points holding objectives, meaning only around 1200 points of the army will be actively participating in battle.  If you have also invested in units of Ishlaen Guard to screen the Aspect of Sea from shooting attacks, then you really only have 1,000 points at most of units that will be effective offensively.   How you intend to chew through hordes of Plaguebearers, Skeletons, or Vulkite Berzerkers with that level of offense is beyond me.

[Richelieu]

4 minutes ago, Skabnoze said:

Anyone else feeling very disappointed by the Allopex unit profile?  The sea-beasts were really what interested me about this army, and the unit entry for a giant shark seems just really really meh...

If you read through this whole thread you will find that your opinion is nearly universally shared.

[BillyOcean]

9 minutes ago, scrollbuilderdude said:

Oops...

I'm sure your friend will forgive you! This is the learning period after all. But I'm interested if anyone sees much promise for Nautilar in general? I feel like this army is always rewarding us for charges, so the Nautilar bonus runs counter to the direction the other rules pull in.

[Skabnoze]

Reading the unit entry for the Allopex, does it have to select one gun - or does it have both?  Hard to tell from how the profile is worded. 

[Ryan Taylor]

It's written x or y. not both. 

[Skabnoze]

5 minutes ago, Ryan Taylor said:

It's written x or y. not both. 

It is written that they fire one or the other, but not that the model is armed with one or the other.  It is a strange wording compared to most other similar models.  There seems to be a bit of that going on throughout the book - like with the Leviadon.  I think that the intention is to select one or the other - and the model probably will have weapon options which will make it more plain.  But it still seems unnecessarily ambiguously worded in the book.  I wish they would just standardize their verbiage for unit weapon options across all the books. 

[Austin]

Just finished assembling my Aspect of the Sea, and wow.  Just the mechanics of putting it together are amazing, and it is far sturdier than you might think.  Hugely impressed by the design studio for such a beautiful and functional model.

[Jak Shadow]

So is there any reason not to take two whole ships rather than two halves? Unless you can only fit the halves where you really need them. 

I thought it was one ship deployed whole or in two halves but reading the book two whole ones seems ok.

Just wanted to check before ordering a second boat.....  

[Drofnum]

1 minute ago, Jak Shadow said:

So is there any reason not to take two whole ships rather than two halves? Unless you can only fit the halves where you really need them. 

I thought it was one ship deployed whole or in two halves but reading the book two whole ones seems ok.

Just wanted to check before ordering a second boat.....  

I think you would always want the option to have two full ships.  Even if you cant place them both due to other terrain you could do 2 halves or 1 full and 1 half, etc. 

I am kind of tempted to wait and see if they come out with another one since the book did imply there would be more, or possibly kitbash something together with my extra KO Frigate cause I think having two of the same is a bit boring.

[Amradiel]

4 hours ago, DantePQ said:

I would go with TideCasterx2 , 30 Thralls, 6 Ishalena Guard , 10 Thralls 

Thank you for the suggestions care to explain why you choose this build? 

[Austin]

1 hour ago, Jak Shadow said:

So is there any reason not to take two whole ships rather than two halves? Unless you can only fit the halves where you really need them. 

I thought it was one ship deployed whole or in two halves but reading the book two whole ones seems ok.

Just wanted to check before ordering a second boat.....  

I am going to get a second boat and use it. So, there will at least be two of us wrong together if turns out they meant to clarify halves. 

[mmimzie]

4 hours ago, Caladancid said:

I am going to get a second boat and use it. So, there will at least be two of us wrong together if turns out they meant to clarify halves. 

I feel like it's too the worsing seems specific enough?? It seems to me to be any combination of 2 half or whole boats??? 

 

9 hours ago, Richelieu said:

It was me.

When evaluating the strength of a given tactic, I tend to think about it in terms of what I would do if I was facing such an army composition.  Think about the additional points investment that will be required to hold objectives.  So in addition to the 540 points that aren't damaging my army, you'll have another 200-300 points holding objectives, meaning only around 1200 points of the army will be actively participating in battle.  If you have also invested in units of Ishlaen Guard to screen the Aspect of Sea from shooting attacks, then you really only have 1,000 points at most of units that will be effective offensively.   How you intend to chew through hordes of Plaguebearers, Skeletons, or Vulkite Berzerkers with that level of offense is beyond me.

I was also right there saying as much with you. You can definitly get alot of -1 to hit out there but that doesn't mean anything if you can't kill stuff and being behind 500pts just doesn't seem like you'll have enough left in the tank to deal with the enemies 2k pts of objective grabbing. 

 

 

After playing some proxy games I'm more than ever of the opinion that we live and die on our turn 3. We should try to stay as close to even as we can on turn 1 and 2. Then go ham off turn 3. Our units are to frail & lack focus (thralls) or too limited in there windows of attack (morrsar) to sit there duking it out all game. They want to give it there all all at once. 

[DantePQ]

7 hours ago, Amradiel said:

Thank you for the suggestions care to explain why you choose this build? 

You got two great spellcasters who are tough to take down (Forgotten Nightmares and Tidecaster ability) - they can debuff enemy greatly with two -1 to hit spells and maybe give yourself a cover or ofensive spell + easier rituals. One unit of Thralls is to grab objectives and the bigger one to serve as a hammer , with Inspiring Presence every turn Bravery is not a problem. Maybe split Ishalean Guard into two units of 3 - to grab objectives when needed.