Arkiham Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 so, I've noticed a growing trend. peoples over-reliance on the apps available to us. the warscroll builder off games-workshops site, and games work-shop's official app, people are using these as gospel, the things they are allowed to do or not do in the army building parts of it, many see as the actual rules, or use the points as the actual points i think its a good thing to remind people that these are often wrong (not always) , and should only be used for ease of game-play and list building rather than as a basis of knowledge and repository of rules Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingmma Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Or games workshop could keep them up to date? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suedester Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I've got to disagree here. If it is an official app then it's GWs responsibility to ensure their app is updated and reflects any changes to rules/points as they are updated. GW need to get on top of it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
DantePQ Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I love those apps (and would love one for Wh40k ) but I agree some people don't even check actual rules being 100% dependent on app. It's cool byt Azyr has still many mistakes and things that should be done. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted February 3, 2018 Author Share Posted February 3, 2018 6 minutes ago, suedester said: I've got to disagree here. If it is an official app then it's GWs responsibility to ensure their app is updated and reflects any changes to rules/points as they are updated. GW need to get on top of it. Don't get me wrong. I agree. But, you shouldn't just rely on the app being correct 100% of the time. Always check the books and faqs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Choombatta Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 4 minutes ago, Arkiham said: Don't get me wrong. I agree. But, you shouldn't just rely on the app being correct 100% of the time. Always check the books and faqs. Yes, otherwise everyone's brand new GUO only gets 10 wounds instead of the 16 the new warscroll has. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingmma Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 I really think its on gw to have one true source for the rules and if the app is the easiest way to do that (it is) they should use it. While i appreciate them being willing to change things on a regular basis they should definitely keep their apps up to date. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
suedester Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 21 minutes ago, Arkiham said: Don't get me wrong. I agree. But, you shouldn't just rely on the app being correct 100% of the time. Always check the books and faqs. True, but the general point I'm trying to make is that you should be able to rely on the app. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GuitaRasmus Posted February 3, 2018 Share Posted February 3, 2018 Perhaps GW could take a cue from Privateer Press in this instance? While I'm done with WM/H (way too complicated and WAAC to me), their war room app is a work of art. Always updated and functions very well. If the reason the app is being poorly maintained is that it is free, they could consider selling "decks" of Warscrolls, like PP does. You pay a small fee (like 5 pounds or so) to get access to all your factions warscroll plus updates for the entire edition. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
someone2040 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Yeah, I think it's only the fault of GW for not keeping their stuff up to date. It's super frustrating that we still have warscrolls on the app that are from the compendium rather than the grand alliance books (So you know, like almost 2 years out of date now). I don't use Azyr at all, so can't really comment on that section of the app. That being said, Warscroll Builder is not and it's up to Tony I think to update that (Although, unsure what constraints he's under as to how often he can update). I also think it's important that Warscroll Builder's infrastructure is from a time well before allegiances and the like. It's never really been something that validates that your list is 'legal'. Which I think has pros and cons, because it means that open play people can use it to smash up a list as well regardless of a lot of restrictions in the game. That being said, I do think it's important that people don't treat it as gospel. A lot of the functions have been built as he's thought about adding them. There's lots of inconsistencies in what units pick equipment while other units don't, etc. And that inconsistency means that TO's and the like shouldn't rely on it too much as a submission format. For example. Freeguild Guard don't need to specify equipment at all, while Liberators have to. Does that mean I as a Free Peoples player, has an advantage in list submission because I can choose before each game what equipment my Guard are equip with? Anyway, that's my little pet peeve I guess. Love warscroll builder, use it almost every day. But there are some inconsistencies which means people really do need to be aware of what they're playing with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
chord Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 Really it's a data management issue. It's not just keeping an app to update, or pdf's on the website. It's more having a centralized data repository that is the source of truth, that everything else pulls from (or gets updated from). So GW updates it once, then it automatically updates everywhere. But you'd be surprised how many have never read the 4 page rules (or not play them accurately i.e. los) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BURF1 Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 3 hours ago, Arkiham said: so, I've noticed a growing trend. peoples over-reliance on the apps available to us. the warscroll builder off games-workshops site, and games work-shop's official app, people are using these as gospel, the things they are allowed to do or not do in the army building parts of it, many see as the actual rules, or use the points as the actual points i think its a good thing to remind people that these are often wrong (not always) , and should only be used for ease of game-play and list building rather than as a basis of knowledge and repository of rules so are the books friend. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lucio Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 The digital source really should be better than the print, because it can be updated and maintained. The fact that it isn't is disappointing Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
flemingmma Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 2 hours ago, Lucio said: The digital source really should be better than the print, because it can be updated and maintained. The fact that it isn't is disappointing This is true. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
zedatkinszed Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 15 hours ago, someone2040 said: Yeah, I think it's only the fault of GW for not keeping their stuff up to date. It's super frustrating that we still have warscrolls on the app that are from the compendium rather than the grand alliance books (So you know, like almost 2 years out of date now). I don't use Azyr at all, so can't really comment on that section of the app. That being said, Warscroll Builder is not and it's up to Tony I think to update that (Although, unsure what constraints he's under as to how often he can update). I also think it's important that Warscroll Builder's infrastructure is from a time well before allegiances and the like. It's never really been something that validates that your list is 'legal'. Which I think has pros and cons, because it means that open play people can use it to smash up a list as well regardless of a lot of restrictions in the game. I agree re: Warscroll builder it's free and it's good but it aint perfect. As regards Azyr I don't use it either BUT if I was paying nearly 2eiro a month I'd want it to be right. 14 hours ago, chord said: Really it's a data management issue. It's not just keeping an app to update, or pdf's on the website. It's more having a centralized data repository that is the source of truth, that everything else pulls from (or gets updated from). So GW updates it once, then it automatically updates everywhere. The GHB is supposed to be just that - a repository for the updated rules. But as above if I was paying for Azyr I would feel totally cheated if it wasn't exactly correct (hence why I don't use it). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
rokapoke Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 This post may be only tangentially related to this topic, but I’m going to write it anyway To me the biggest issue is people trying to use these tools without understanding what they do. Yes, these online tools (Warscroll Builder and Azyr) have their flaws and perpetually seem to need updates or fixes. However, the General’s Handbook lays out the rules governing army building and should be considered a “must-have” for anyone intending to use the Matched Play rules. Too many people ask basic questions regarding army construction that are answered by a quick glance at the book - it’s not like GW priced it at £200 or something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Rob Hawkins Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 The problem I witness is people using ONLY the Apps as their entire source of game knowledge, and as I understand it, the App doesn't lay out the rules for how Allegiances function, or any of the other "subtlties" of the game mechanics that appear in the General's Handbook. So they've got the Free 4-page Rules, the warscroll app, and literally don't know anything else about the game. My other pet peeve is that writing an army list is dead. So rather than having a reference sheet with their army stats on it, players waste time flipping through the entire battletome to find the warscroll they need for the unit they are activating, or cycling through the app and then looking at one zoomed-in section of a warscroll on their tiny phone screen (after they've brought the screen out of sleep mode and waited for the app to re-load, of course). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
nuttyknatty Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 I must admit, I heavily rely on the Azyr app for points and Warscroll rules. Is there a handy list of all the errors anywhere? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted February 4, 2018 Share Posted February 4, 2018 16 minutes ago, The Nameless One said: Is there a handy list of all the errors anywhere? https://www.warhammer-community.com/faqs/ Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted February 4, 2018 Author Share Posted February 4, 2018 1 hour ago, The Nameless One said: I must admit, I heavily rely on the Azyr app for points and Warscroll rules. Is there a handy list of all the errors anywhere? Errors in the apps ? No. It seems to vary per person. For instance, I cannot update my GUO rules,beast of nurgle rules. Everchosen battalions are fine to use as a god alligience, thus allowing you to take something say blightkings as battleline but azyr doesn't let you. Waracroll builder has some minor points errors, allows you you take things you shouldn't etc. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
scrollbuilderdude Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 7 hours ago, Arkiham said: Waracroll builder has some minor points errors Please PM me here with these kinds of issues. I'll try to get them fixed as soon as possible. Thanks! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Killax Posted February 5, 2018 Share Posted February 5, 2018 I don't really think that objectively speaking either books or apps are to blame here. Games Workshop has now shown they like to make a real effort into errata's and while this is good it also means that several rules in books or digital Warscrolls arn't working out as initially written. So for me the only solution is to check it all, going first by errata, app and then book as the latter is the medium that is the least likely to be ever updated. I don't think anyone should skip on these rules updates, I think GW makes it quite clear that they are around (Warhammer Community) and I certainly think that there are tons of rules in Age of Sigmar that are unclearly written that 'getting rules wrong' will so far remain part of the game. Just to give a few examples, nobody could guess wether or not Blood Tithe was initially mend to resolve at the start of the hero phase (not a single suggestion was given before), wether or not the Bloodsecrator would stack (no), wether or not the Bloodstoker stacks (yes) and wether or not The Brazen Rune was subject to normal unbinding rules (no). So in the end, accept being incorrect at times and figure out how to resolve rules questions as best as possible using book, app and faq. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Arkiham Posted February 5, 2018 Author Share Posted February 5, 2018 3 hours ago, scrollbuilderdude said: Please PM me here with these kinds of issues. I'll try to get them fixed as soon as possible. Thanks! Done Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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