Allies Predictions

[someone2040]

Hi guys,

So with GHB2017 a little over 2 weeks to drop (Which means, we'll probably see leaks sometime next week), and the fact the warhammer-community has been showing some of the allies themselves, I thought it'd be good to have a good ol' bit of speculation about what we think certain ally factions will be.

For the record, we currently know the following:

Deathlords may take Deadwalkers, Flest-Eater Courts, Deathrattle, Deathmages, Soulblight, Nighthaunt as allies

Clans Verminus may take Clans Eshin, Clans Moulder, Clans Pestilens, Clans Skyre, Masterclan as allies

Moonfang Grots may take Aleguzzler Gargants, Greenskinz, Gitmob Grots, Spiderfang Grots, Troggoths as allies

We also know that Beastclaw Raider, Gutbusters, Firebellies and Maneaters will all be able to ally together.

It also looks like allies will be Faction based and not keyword based. We can project this based on the Skaven actually, as currently none of the Skaven have keywords such as CLANS VERMINUS, they just have the keyword VERMINUS.

This is potentially a very important thing to distinguish. Because everything in the Compendium and stuff like Sayl, may share keywords with current factions, aren't a part of that faction (i.e Brettonians and Empire in GHB1 are both in a different section to the Free Peoples even if they share the FREE PEOPLES keyword). Whether or not Games Workshop will make some clarification on this issue in the Compendium update we'll have to wait and see.

 

But back to the main topic at hand, let's theory craft some possible allies!

Personally I feel that allies are definitely going to be more narrative in nature, and balance will be kept in other ways. So I don't think you're going to see Collegiate Arcane allying with all of Order for example. One thing I'm curious about is whether or not allies will be symmetrical. As an example I think Ironjawz shouldn't ally with Greenskinz, but think it's more narrative appropriate for Greenskinz to ally with Ironjawz. Not sure whether GW will pursue this direction though.

 

So here are some of my top picks for the different grand alliances:

Free Peoples can ally with Devoted of Sigmar, Dispossessed, Collegiate Arcane, Ironweld Arsenal, Stormcast Eternals as allies

Darkling Covens may take Shadowblades, Order Serpentis, Scourge Privateers, Daughters of Khaine, Stormcast Eternals as allies (Even if I think the Stormcast are definitely an odd choice here, I don't think the Covens really willingly ally themselves with Stormcast, as much as a dire situation)

Seraphon may take Stormcast Eternals as allies (Even if I think it should be no-one)

Dispossessed may take Kharadron Overlords, Fyreslayers, Stormcast Eternals, Ironweld Arsenal as allies

Sylvaneth may take Stormcast Eternals, Wanderers as allies (A more risky prediction though IMO, has them also ally with Eldritch Council, Lion Rangers, Order Draconis and Phoenix Temple).

Wanderers may take Stormcast Eternals, Sylvaneth, Swifthawk Agents as allies

Slaves to Darkness may take Blades of Khorne, Disciples of Tzeentch, Nurgle, Hosts of Slaanesh, Chaos Gargants, Chaos Daemons, Monsters of Chaos, Everchosen as allies

Brayherd may take Warherd, Monsters of Chaos, Thunderscorn as allies

Ironjawz may take Aleguzzler Gargants, Beastclaw Raiders, Gutbusters, Maneaters, Firebellies, Troggoths as allies

Bonesplitterz may take Aleguzzler Gargants, Spiderfang Grots, Troggoths as allies

Greenskinz may take Aleguzzler Gargants, Moonclan, Gitmob Grots, Spdierfang Grots, Troggoths as allies

Flesh-eater Courts may take Deathlords, Deathmages, Deadwalkers, Nighthaunt as allies

Soulblight may take Deathlords, Deathmages, Deadwalkers, Deathrattle, Nighthaunt as allies

Deathrattle may take Deathlords, Deathmages, Soulblight as allies

 

In general, I think we're going to see a lot of the more traditional factions 'joining back together' through allies. Which also puts an interesting strain on the armies that have currently got battletomes and those that don't Anything that doesn't have a battletome barely gets a mention in any content (like Path to Glory and Skirmish, while supporting factions without battletomes, didn't show a single model that isn't in a current battletome). This is more a defensive mechanism so GW can change their mind later on what they want to do with them, but also means there's been very little interaction between these factions.

The obvious exception is Order, because essentially we've just been told all the older factions march out with the Stormcast to reclaim the lands. So all have a connection to Stormcast Eternals, but not necessarily other factions like Syvlaneth, Fyreslayers and Kharadron Overlords.

[Davariel]

Pretty much agreed on all counts. From what we've seen so far it looks like allies are allowing the WFB armies to get back together to some extent - which as far as I'm concerned is great!

33 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

Seraphon can't ally with anyone (I get the feeling GW will chicken out though, and have them as allies with Stormcast).

I'm fairly sure one of the Warhammer Community articles confirmed that every Order army can take Stormcast as allies (gotta push those poster boys I guess).

I actually really hope the reverse isn't true - Stormcast have such a massive lineup of units that they don't really need more options (unlike most other factions). Having said that I'd expect them to at least get human allies - Devoted of Sigmar, Freeguild, Ironweld Arsenal and Collegiate Arcane - if not most (all?) Order factions...

33 minutes ago, someone2040 said:

Sylvaneth can ally with Stormcast Eternals, Wanderers (A more risky prediction though IMO, has them also ally with Eldritch Council, Lion Rangers, Order Draconis and Phoenix Temple).

Sylvaneth are a tricky one (and the one closest to my own heart). Stormcast are a given, of course. Wanderers are likely based on their being part of the same army in WFB - but current background emphasises the distrust between Wanderers and Sylvaneth, and I wouldn't be surprised if GW limit Sylvaneth allies in general. I'd be overjoyed if we get High elf allies (Alarielle was our Everqueen first, dammit! ) but I don't see it happening unless GW decide that every army must have at least 3 allies or something.

On another note, I'll be interested to see how they handle factions like the Firebellies and Lion Rangers, which can't even fulfill basic "Leader and Battleline" requirements. They're a prime candidate for allies-only factions I suppose (if not being outright folded into something else). Would be nice to see them more readily available as allies, giving them a kind of mercenary status, since they can't be played as their own factions.

 

[someone2040]

If I had to guess about Stormcast, I'd probably say something like:

Stormcast Eternals may take  Sylvaneth, Fyreslayers, Devoted of Sigmar as allies (I don't know enough about the Overlords to see if they've had much cooperation)

Something pretty simple like that, basically showing they've bonded with some of the newer factions, and that the Devoted are more than happy to go along with them. 

I certainly hope they're not going to get a free ride to ally with everyone as it doesn't really make thematic sense (Which is why I think allies shouldn't be symmetrical or mirrored).

 

As for the current auxillary factions like collegiate arcane, firebellies, lion rangers. I get the feeling it'll just be where they make most sense. I don't think Collegiate Arcane are going to see much allying outside of Free Peoples. Could be wrong, but that's where I see them, as the magical support for the Humans. The Aelves have their own magical support, and Duardin don't use magic. Stormcast will probably get some Magic chamber at some point, but at the moment Sigmar obviously doesn't believe they need magic.

In some ways I'm hoping that Firebellies, but Lion Rangers in particular, get expanded into true faction. I do think there is a place for supporting factions, but some in particular need a bit more meat on the bone. Realistically, Lion Rangers should've had a generic Korhil warscroll anyway and been a proper faction from the start.

[polarbear]

I know it's not happening now, but I hope in the future the concept gets expanded a bit. I'd love if Fyreslayers could be a true mercenary army for factions outside of Order.

[Killax]

Yep to me its a WFB throwback which Im cool with. As such I agree with the initial suggestion/idea.

[Jamopower]

3 hours ago, someone2040 said:

If I had to guess about Stormcast, I'd probably say something like:

Stormcast Eternals can ally with Sylvaneth, Fyreslayers, Devoted of Sigmar (I don't know enough about the Overlords to see if they've had much cooperation)

Something pretty simple like that, basically showing they've bonded with some of the newer factions, and that the Devoted are more than happy to go along with them. 

I certainly hope they're not going to get a free ride to ally with everyone as it doesn't really make thematic sense (Which is why I think allies shouldn't be symmetrical or mirrored).

.

I think it was said in the Warhammer community ally article, or somewhere else, that Stormcast can ally with all order armies?

[someone2040]

43 minutes ago, Jamopower said:

I think it was said in the Warhammer community ally article, or somewhere else, that Stormcast can ally with all order armies?

To be specific, they said "while the Stormcast Eternals can lend their strength to any Order faction".

This to me implies, that all Order armies can ally with Stormcast, but it doesn't necessarily mean it's the other way around. i.e Stormcast Eternals can take X as allies. 

I've edited my original posts to make this clearer. I don't think Stormcast are going to be able to take all other Order faction as allies.

[Jamopower]

Yes, you're right, I mixed these together.

[Screwface]

Does it look like you'll be limited to just 20% allies from certain factions? Won't this be limiting? I haven't been following developments closely, but is it true to say that currently if I was running, say, Brayherd I could take more than 400pts of Marauders in a 2000pt list if I chose to do so in matched play?

[Sheriff]

I've given up trying to predict things and will just wait 2 weeks to see whats in the book, and in the meantime paint the models that are dead-certs for inclusion. 

 

But I will make one prediction! Spiderbros and squigs are going to wreck your table and get all up in your business! 

[Sheriff]

Pre-order of the new book starts on Saturday, JFYI. 

[Tidings]

The idea that Stormcast can ally with everyone is infuriating. They already have 3 times as many options as Sylvaneth, and even more than most other armies. Why do they need to have the widest access to other units? They already do everything better than the other units anyways. 

Armies like Wanderers, Dispossessed, etc need the wider pool of allies far more than Stormcast do. 

[Sheriff]

Allies seem to be lore-based rather than balance-based. I like it this way tbh. 

[stato]

23 minutes ago, Tidings said:

The idea that Stormcast can ally with everyone is infuriating. They already have 3 times as many options as Sylvaneth, and even more than most other armies. Why do they need to have the widest access to other units? They already do everything better than the other units anyways. 

Armies like Wanderers, Dispossessed, etc need the wider pool of allies far more than Stormcast do. 

I think you might have it backwards.

Quote

Each faction has its own allies table – the Wanderers, for example, can fight alongside their ancestral kindred the Sylvaneth, while the Stormcast Eternals can lend their strength to any Order faction.

Stormcast available AS allies, no indication yet of who Stormcast can take as allies.

[TerrorPenguin]

If they are lore based there is good precedent for Stormcast allying with Soulblight  

[Furious]

Loving the classic OG Orruk and Grots allies list. Sort of liking how Bonesplitterz and IJz aren't in there, too. The little guys gotta stick together.

[inunn]

2 hours ago, Screwface said:

Does it look like you'll be limited to just 20% allies from certain factions? Won't this be limiting? I haven't been following developments closely, but is it true to say that currently if I was running, say, Brayherd I could take more than 400pts of Marauders in a 2000pt list if I chose to do so in matched play?

You could but currently you’d have to use chaos allegiance. If you took them as allies you could keep your Brayherd allegiance, meaning you can keep your ‘battleline if Brayherd’ options and any Brayherd allegiance abilities (I don’t know if they have any abilities or will have any soon, I don’t have any chaos so haven’t been following Brayherds closely).

[hot_boy_ronald]

4 hours ago, Tidings said:

The idea that Stormcast can ally with everyone is infuriating. They already have 3 times as many options as Sylvaneth, and even more than most other armies. Why do they need to have the widest access to other units? They already do everything better than the other units anyways. 

Armies like Wanderers, Dispossessed, etc need the wider pool of allies far more than Stormcast do. 

 

3 hours ago, stato said:

I think you might have it backwards.

Stormcast available AS allies, no indication yet of who Stormcast can take as allies.

stato has it here. The Stormcast are able to be the allies of other Order armies (i.e. 20% of any Order army can be Stormcast). 

 

This is fitting since they are not really "normal" in that they have their own cultural identity, rather they are forged from great warriors. They are also helping out in Sigmar's name wherever the forces of Order need help. 

[Naflem]

On 8/13/2017 at 10:57 PM, someone2040 said:

If I had to guess about Stormcast, I'd probably say something like:

Stormcast Eternals may take  Sylvaneth, Fyreslayers, Devoted of Sigmar as allies (I don't know enough about the Overlords to see if they've had much cooperation)

Something pretty simple like that, basically showi

As for the current auxillary factions like collegiate arcane, firebellies, lion rangers. I get the feeling it'll just be where they make most sense. I don't think Collegiate Arcane are going to see much allying outside of Free Peoples. Could be wrong, but that's where I see them, as the magical support for the Humans. The Aelves have their own magical support, and Duardin don't use magic. Stormcast will probably get some Magic chamber at some point, but at the moment Sigmar obviously doesn't believe the

I'm pretty sure in one of the community articles they said that any order army that didnt currently have wizards wouls get access to the Collegiate Arcane. 

[someone2040]

15 minutes ago, Naflem said:

I'm pretty sure in one of the community articles they said that any order army that didnt currently have wizards wouls get access to the Collegiate Arcane. 

It's possible. I don't necessarily think it should, but perhaps that's just my old worldness clouding judgement (What Duardin would work with a mage? or Aelves should work with Aelven mages). So yes, you're quite possibly right that races like Stormcast will get access to the Collegiate Arcane.

It'll definitely be interesting to find out what races do end up as allies, as the Order preview didn't really reveal anything new in this respect.

[Scottyjock]

I'm interested to see how much GHB2017 encourages folk to bring a Faction +/- 400pts Allies in Matched Play, rather than say a Chaos mish-mash of Sayle, Bletters, SFiends, WLC etc etc

Will the carrot of alt Battleline and new/improved faction abilities & items be enough to see less of these types of lists?

[RuneBrush]

I'm quite heartened by seeing it'll be keyword/faction based rather than a free-for-all.  It should help to push the thematic/background of armies we see on the tabletop, especially if GW keep some of the mainstaples in (such as Khorne's dislike of magic and Slaanesh).  It also sounds like one-way allies are a thing too - so we can see Kharadron with Stormcast but possibly not the other way round.

Just want the book to hurry up now

[Nubgan]

On 14/08/2017 at 3:34 PM, Tidings said:

The idea that Stormcast can ally with everyone is infuriating. They already have 3 times as many options as Sylvaneth, and even more than most other armies. Why do they need to have the widest access to other units? They already do everything better than the other units anyways. 

Armies like Wanderers, Dispossessed, etc need the wider pool of allies far more than Stormcast do. 

With any luck Stormcast can be the 20% for any/most Order armies, but then they have limited include for actual allies for themselves. But we will see. 

5 minutes ago, RuneBrush said:

I'm quite heartened by seeing it'll be keyword/faction based rather than a free-for-all.  It should help to push the thematic/background of armies we see on the tabletop, especially if GW keep some of the mainstaples in (such as Khorne's dislike of magic and Slaanesh).  It also sounds like one-way allies are a thing too - so we can see Kharadron with Stormcast but possibly not the other way round.

Just want the book to hurry up now

Please Please this!

[wayniac]

Honestly that's my only concern with the Allies mechanic, that it will essentially be a way to Simply fill the gaps with what is supposed to be the Army's weakness. What is the point of having a weakness if you can just take from another faction to get rid of it?

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[Killax]

4 minutes ago, wayniac said:

Honestly that's my only concern with the Allies mechanic, that it will essentially be a way to Simply fill the gaps with what is supposed to be the Army's weakness. What is the point of having a weakness if you can just take from another faction to get rid of it?

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I dont dissagree but at the same time removing weaknesses from all is what this new GH seems to be set up for. With this I mean that every aspect of armies seems to be buffed rather than toned down. Which for Horde armies especially will be a massive change of competative approach.

Personally though I dont think AoS really ever had the depth of a true hard pro/con design, by large because the Army specific Alliances are still very recently created and for the most part Grand Alliances where still more popular because they allowed for this now build in "Allied mechanic". E.g. Chaos with Sayl and Bloodletters and Skyfires was doing better as Slaves to Darkness, Blades of Khorne or Desciples of Tzeentch for a longer while, in that sence going for the mixed Allied approach always has been "better". 

All this is to me is blending AoS to WFB flavour again. In some cases I agree with it, in others I do not. Espcially the Battleline rules and Horde rules is something I hope they gave good consideration as this again lead to the death of WFB to begin with (40 block units make this game have a extremely high buy in, much higher as say 40k).