Myrdin

Held this thing in my hands just a couple hours ago. Unasembled and handing it over to its rightful owner. Wishing that person was me... but I was merely the courier

Oh I get you. Trust me. I was a die hard BoC fanboy for a while now, and I was shedding salty tears when I compare the StD and CoS battletomes, both of which are fairly well balanced compared to the top 3 competitive meta armies. Heck even well balanced as they are, they completely overshadow everything BoC have. So I am fully understanding of your position. When OBR and Ogors came out It literally killed my joy for the army to such a degree I shelved them. Currently I work on my CoS and even returned back and started working on my DoK that I left untouched since BoC released about a year or so ago. Thats how bad the power creep is. And its no fun, as there are clearly fantastic books that are quite fair, yet still powerful enough to be fun. *** Now regarding the Rumormill.... hell... I`lbe damned, but I see there a potentially new Dragon Ogor Shaggoth, when I combine 2 or 3 picks. Might be just my wishful thinking for the big daddy Kolek Suneater to make return and finally getting an update on the ancient Shaggoth miniature that literally looks like it came from another era (which it technically did ). Dragon Ogors in general would be nice and deserving an update but the Shaggoth NEEDS it, heck maybe even more than the equally ancient Centigors. On the other hand it just might be some new Maneaters hero and a Seraphon or something like that, so I am not really holding my breath >___<

So in regards to the newly release KO battletome I have to ask. Do you think they became a must take for a shooty Tempest Eye army ? Or can we do just fine with the CoS stuff we have available to us ? I never really like KO to begin with. The steapunk setting that look like it got take from Shadowrun is completely missed on me as far as AoS > a high fantasy setting < is concerned. But I am quite the fan of Tempest Eye and what it has going for it. Together with Living City its my favorite and most fun to play unless I wanna do something specific like heavy artillery, or Battle line Hydra and such

So I`ll ask here, since this and Tempest Eye are the two cities where it would be most relevant: Helstorm Rocket battery and Helblaster. I know that none of them are the "good choices" but admittedly they are the "fun" choices. And they work well with either of these two cities. Helblaster is more suited for Tempest eyes, due to its native To Hit being higher, and to make it solid all you need is a Hurricanum hero with Hawkeyed and you are set. The Hellstorm on the other hand seems less appealing for Tempest eye and better suited for Greywater due to the Runelord prayer combined with Hurricanum makes it 3+ to Hit, and even 2+ if you fire at the same target. No bonus To Wound though. Now the biggest benefit to these can be found with Tempest Eyes HawkEyed trait that gives the +1 to Wound. However, I have a hunch that being 2+ 3+ -2 with reroll 1s to Hit (Greywater) is better than 3+ 2+ -2 (Tempest). What do you think about this ? Is Greywater better for Helstorm. And how do you find the two artillery pieces in general. I tried Helblaster with Cogsmith against Seraphon, and wasnt really that impressed. It was fun, but them negating -1 Rend it was rather underwhelming. Especially me rolling low number of shots and a double every single turn. Still I think it might be just fine within Tempest, Though having 2+ and re-roll 1 to Hit with Greywater seems pretty decent as well.

Just wanted to say > Thats a fantastic paintjob! Really, really nice looking

One of my local retailers was talking about a pure Gargant army being released. Battletome and everything. According to him the Gargants in general will be much much beefier. Think Imperial Knights in 40K beefy. Where you would essentially field an army of few models, that equals in power and points value the army of your opponent. I personally didnt really give this much credit but..... Asgard Elves...... vs Jotunheim styled Giants suddenly seems much more reasonable than it did before.

If you want to see a heavy handed nerf go take a look at the pre-BoC Jabberslythe, which was an autopick for many GAC armies, and compare it to the useless overnerfed flying frog that keeps warming up the shelf post the BoC release (huge nerf to initial design via changed rules, points hike and few FAQS later further nerf due rule clarification on how the Wound pool and wound distribution should be done from there on.) 😛 From auto include to be never seen again. Thats what I`d call heavy handed. This particular change doesnt really seem like intentional nerf just to ****** people off but actually make sure people dont buy into dozens of Nurgle stuff and then get hit hard, causing only negative reputation for GW. And yes I agree there are armies that are desperate for some nerfs to tone down a bit some of the nonsense thats visible to all but the people who can actually make such changes happen. If something looks to good to be true, most likely it is, and wont be that way for long.

I think the endless spell might be a partial answer to that. Our Emerald Lifeswarm is always empowered and fairly easy to get off since the setup for these guys already includes a Hurricanum, and with it, resurrecting the fallen units would be a viable partial solution unless the unit got completely wiped off the board or heavily neutered in a single turn. Using the bridge is another spell that seems as a valid choice, as against shooting armies you would be able to get them right up to their face, or to the backline, thus completely skipping good 2 turns of foot slogging and getting picked by pieces by enemy range combatants. And since we are talking spells, an Hysh Battlemage with Pha`s Protection. Universally reducing To Hit rate against this unit by -1 would go a long way when combined with the Swarm for resurrecting.

Thanks for the fairly extensive answer @Graywater good to see I am not the only one tempted to this army by its charming monster girls! I wish I had Morathi in a playable state (as in out of the sprue, assembled and painted... so the full 9 yards ) as that is one hell`u`va miniature. I am well aware that the Archer girls are not really a good deal, even despite their points now being at -40 of their original price back when the book launched. But they are still required for the Temple Nest setup and heck I really like them. All my Snakes have magnetized arms and heads (the GW ones at least, the Nagaliths are the "easy to build, just glue two parts togather" type) just so I can experiment with the Stalkers in greater numbers. To bad to hear that they are still not worth their points. I suppose a Warscroll update is in order since you are at half the shots other regular shooting units have (best comparison to them in price but double the output would be the CoS Shadow Warriors) and that seems to hurt them a lot, especially since their MW attack stops the attack sequence instead of just adding onto it. I see so the Sisters should be run in units of 15. Hmm I always thought its better to have two units of 10 rather than the 15 and 5, seeing as Stalker can sit on the objectives instead of them. But I get where you`re coming from so I suppose its worth considering. While I do adore the idea of running a War Hydra just for the theme, I guess dropping it in order to beef out that one unit to 15 and use the extra points to up something else might be allright. Regarding the temples I am a well aware that Hag Narr is the "boring but reliable" go to for many players due to its defensive buff. I personally do like the +1 To Hit from Draichi Ganeth, but that Might not work so well with Snakes since they dont have Run and Charge unlike the Elves. Plus it might require the Cogs to get this buff reliably. I must say I am quite intrigued by the Khaliebron one. Especially since my DoK are all desert themed, even down to the bases, with nice tanned, chocolate colored bodies mmmm mmmm delicious Ok but srsly now. I find that the overall benefits of Khaliebron temple are fairly solid. Bonus against shooting and the option to "hop" your Bloodwrack shrine forward right up your opponents back line, while the second Shrine can roll for Steed of Shadows to get there and double the MW output seems like a legit strategy. And I think like the big Snakes unit could also benefit from that ability as well. In terms of Harpies, I Absolutely love the miniatures and wanted to run big flocks of 10 to 20 of them and just hammer your opponent with death from above. Hell, last time I`ve seen infantry sized models with such fine wings was back in the day when Dark Eldar Scourges released their current kit. Best looking winged infantry until the Khirenai made their appearance. Now in terms of Witch elves vs SoS. Due to the WE price hike the SoS seem to be better in general now due to their 2" range. But what about MSU ? I know that current rule set doesnt really do well with MSU units and while there are exceptions, its not really that valued of a strategy. But the WE with sacrifical daggers can put out ridiculous number of attacks, so even that one small unit of 10 can pose a threat. Skip around the battlefield and draw fire away from your other stuff as you cant just ignore them when a single spell can turn that small unit into a meat grinder. For artifacts I quite like the Wizad one > Crystal Heart for the option to double cast each turn coupled with True Believer trait to get the benefits from Blood Rites sooner. Though I think that one is better suited when running 2 Bloodwracks. With a Shrine I would go with Bathed in Blood for that passive regeneration and maybe Thousand and One Dark Blessings (though this would be better with the Cauldron than the Medusa shrine). Crone blade might also work to for their spear and with one Haq Queen running the healing prayer I guess you could keep your shrine relatively healthy ? The other would be running Catechism and fish for those 6 to hit. At least thats the general idea I have about this whole thing

Been a long time since I posted in this thread, mostly due to me putting my DoK on hold on focusing more on my other two armies (BoC and CoS). Recently I picked up some more snake girls (the nice looking Nagalith from Raging Heroes) I decided to restart my DoK army project. Especially after the price decrease to Stalkers which I do quite like. I`ve been wondering how viable is a Temple Nest centric army these days ? Especially with stuff like Slaanesh and Bonereapers out there. Since I do like both the snake ladies and the harpies quite a lot and cant be bothered to do 60+ Witches/SoS (have only 20 painted and I am hard pressed to get more of them done ugh...)I`ve been thinking of focusing more on those in (to save time and preserve my mental state from not painting another mass infantry focused army ). This is what I have been thinking of running, if you could let me know how viable this list is. 1x Medusa on Bloodwrack Shrine 1x Bloodwrack Medusa 2x Hag Queen 2x10 Blood Sisters 2x5 Blood Stalkers 1x30 SoS with Daggers / or 1x10 SoS and an allied War Hydras to go along the serpentine theme 10x Khinerai Heartrenders Temple Nest Battalion 1950 points (1940pts if we go with the Hydra), leaving me open with either a free CP or a an Endless spell (Was thinking about Balewind Vortex. I know that DoK love the Chronomantic Cogs play, but with two Casters this one doesnt seem all that bad, sitting the non shrine Medusa on top of it might and throwing Pit of Shades at people across the board is quite tempting ) So what do you think ? Viable ? Maybe drop the Hydra and upgrade the second Medusa to another Bloodwrack shrines ? I wanna avoid the usual infantry spam if possible. Doesnt need to be super competitive, thats not my intention, but hopefully it should be able to to take on the challanges of modern power creep and still be fun.

Guys please keep in mind when posting suggestions that we are talking only about Points adjustments. Any change to a unit other than that, requires a Warscroll update, and thats not something the GHB updates tend to feature much if at all. I am sure people have lot of great suggestion however as far as I understand it seems that Double Misfire is trying to collect a general consensus data regarding the change in points so please try to stick to that if possible. I am interested in the outcome and where people opinions tend to overlap and agree with each other, as those can then be compiled into an email for GW

So I`ve been tinkering with the idea of running a "mostly non 1W models" list for Living City to make a little use of the +1W regeneration the city bonus confers. Big monsters, and lots of all sorts of cavalry (Outrides instead of Handgunners. Demis, Wildwood Riders, multiple Hydra, DrdonBdragon and such). The exception being SistersoW. Taking Emerald Lifeswarm and a Runepriest in order to recast it as necessary each turn for maximum Healing potency. Since units like Outriders, Hydra, DarkRiders and such would still benefit from this as well as the Command Ability, it doesnt sound so bad on paper. Has anyone tried that, or is the Living City Regeneration just a nice little gimmick and not really something to be considered when army building ?

Can anyone point me towards the The Blacksmoke Battery warscrolls by any chance ? Neither the Cannon nor the Organ Gun are listed in GW store for me to look at them. Have a cannon laying around and was thinking of taking it via the mercenary company. Thanks

Ok since this is just a price adjustment thread, lets keep it that way. I wont go into rules alteration and such. As far as I am concerned CoS is fairly well balanced in most parts, however there are some things I do agree with the comments above and will second and some I would add as well. Most of the changes are just slight price adjustments, nothing drastic. I`ll go down the Unit roster as presented in the Pitched Battle Profiles: *Hellstorm Rocket Battery 130>110/100 *Hellblaster Volley Gun 120>100/90 I really dont think these should be so expensive. They used to be more reliable back in the day, but with our current ranged option the Artillery pieces dont have much to offer, especially with the extra tax of a mandatory Cogsmith included... *Freeguild Crossbowmen 100 > 90 Personally I just dont see the use for these guys. Handgunners are better and Outriders have the mobility thus having the same range. Hellblaster can also deliver a lot of pain for slightly higher price. *Duardin units > A general drop in price by -10 to -15pts for Infantry with bulk purchase price, and -10pts for characters. *Gyrocopters 70 > 60/160 *Gyrobombers 80 > 70 /180 *Assassin 80 > 50 This guy is really not good. Squishy and the damage does not justify the price. In short > even if they pop up somewhere, they are far from being scary. This unit could use a Warscroll buff, but we are discussing price adjustments here. *Nomad Prince 120 > 100 As far as the regular CoS infantry heroes go, this one is decently good, but not having a mounted version to run alongside fairly plentifull cavalry options Wanderers and this army in general has, nor a dedicated range weapon options hurts a lot. Should be same price as FG General. *Freeguild General on Gryfon 320 > 300 *Battlemage on Gryfon 300 > 280 *Dreadlord on Black Dragon > 260 *Sorceress on Black Dragon 300 > 260 I second the opinion regarding the Black Dragon mounted heroes and add in Mage on Gryf. Spell caster mounter of ferocious beast dont really do that much in my opinion, and unlike combat characters you rarely want them in combat, nor is their spell casting getting better with the mount. So you are just taxing yourself with expensive as hell mount to get the mobility just because our army for some reason forgot to rider smaller mounted creatures apparently. *Luminark of Hysh and Luminark with White mage > -20pts Luminark vs Hurricanum.... Yes, the current -10 pts doesnt change the no brainer choice. With another -20 shaved off it might be a tad bit more attractive. *Black Arc Corsairs 80 > 70 /240 IF they had the hand Xbow as part of their dual wielding profile I think 80 would be ok. As they are now, they deserve a price drop. *Black Guard /380 Introduction of a bulk discount would be pretty ok for these guys I think. *Dark Riders 110 > 100 I agree with the reasoning stated in the comments above for this *Drakespawn Knights 150 > 140 Even after the first price drop they are still to expensive. Without a Warscroll update they should be bit more cheaper. At 140 they are close to Wildwood Riders who are essentially they less armored but punchy variant. *Executioners 130 > 120 /310 Slight drop in price and -20pts decrease in bulk purchase as well. To me these guys are just a different version of Bestigors (though better with the 3+to hit tbh). They should be priced slightly less than they currently are. *Flagellants 80 > 60 / 220 These guys.... does anyone even use these ? They die like flies, they hit like wet noodle and their abilities trigger only after a bunch of them has died (because make no mistake a bunch of the WILL die if anything but sneezes their way). They should be MUCH cheaper. Essentially a Chaff unit or a big cheap sacrificial unit to toss at the enemy. *Greatswords 160 > 150 /400 Slight price drop would be golden. I really like the Greatswords but for the price I just avoid them more than I`d like to do. They look great on the paper and they can be horrifying in battle, but they are rather slow and very expensive for 1w Infantry model. I have 40 of them and they have yet to see table in any real capacity.... *Phoenix Guard 160 > 170 Slight price hike. They remind me a lot of Tzaangors. Difference being those are 2W each with worse saves and variable weapon load outs. Phoenix guard are tough as nails and hit decently hard when unbuffed. Extra 10 points wont hurt them much in the long run. *Scourgerunner Chariots 60 > 70 Lets be honest, these things are amazing for 60 pts. They would still be good for 70. Increase the price of individual models while keep the bulk discount to limit the unit in movement and ground control when you want to capitalize on the damage output. Still a good choice even with 10 more points slapped onto the unit. *Sister of Thorns 130 > 120/110 And honestly I still think they should be cheaper. They are far from being as shooty as Outriders, nor can they cast as well as Doomfire Warlocks. Whats worse their utility is extremely limited with their signature spell affecting only Wanderers. I like the Sister, but as they are now. Personally I`d say 110 is where they should be, as that would make them decent chaff / chaff hunters even with their limitations. *Wildwood Rangers /330-310 I like Wildwood Rangers a lot. They bring terror to the terrors of the night (big gribbly monsters). But I think they could use a bulk discount tbh in order for them to stay competitive with our own roster. A solid bulk discount would be nice to see, even though I run them as MSU. *Battalions -20 pts A full scale decrease on the battalion pricing would be welcome.

Hrmpf! ....Not sure if this comment deserves a line in the Great Book of Grudges.... or keg of beer and a lamb chop at the local ill reputed watering hole!

I completely agree with you on this. But considering I know a crazy hobbyist friend of mine who magnetizes everything and anything miniatures related, even regular infantry that has swappable load outs, I thought I`d just throw it out there as a "possibility"

If you are unsure what to build there is always the option to magnetize heads and hands. This way you could swap in between the different weapon load outs without the need to buy more to get the "other option" and you`d have to do that onlyu to increase numbers rather than different units. Its lot of work thats for sure, but just throwing it out there as something worth to consider especially with dual/tripple kits like these.

In regards to what swarm said, wouldn't they be a decent MSU unit ? I know the bulk discount is amazing, but they do a look a lot like Bestigors to me. Essentially a relatively cheap hard hitting unit with good speed that you fling forward to either do preliminary damage before real combat is joined, or essentially as assassins. Clearing chaff, heroes and other small units, while also posing much bigger threat than regular chaff.... because this army doesn't really have anything I personally would consider as such. The few cheap units we have are not fast enough, and Dark Riders seem like the best option, but thats 110 points so not really a chaff at that point either. I mean I dont dislike the executioners as much as many (though I dont dislike the Corsairs either.... so the problem might be me lol ) mostly because I am used to Bestigors. The way I look at them is pretty much just a different source of MW in an army that has plenty of that. Nothing amazing, but nothing horrible either (granted I do dislike the fact the MV ends their attack sequence, thats a bit lame). The way I see them is pretty much MSU against certain armies and targets where Rend -1 is inconsequential, as it either doesn't do anything or its not enough to do anything.

Hmm not really. For this army I am going the "Many Clans united" way. Here is a pic. Basically there is not just a singular regimental color. My Ashigaru and Samurai (Freeguild Halberdiers and Greatswords), all are painted in 3 distinct color schemes for the armor > Black, Blue and Red. The different pieces of clothes are also all randomized to build upon the colorfulness such an army would bring. Same goes for stuff like my Demigrypfs > Dragon riders. The Dragons too will be different colors, mostly blue, red and green that fit the Asian themed serpentine miniature. Just few pictures to give you an idea waht I am talking about. (Also, credits where credit due: these were not painted by me, but a friend of mine. Though each individual color scheme and setting were researched and put together by me I wasn't the one holding the brush. I am just to slow of a painter to get anything more done than few miniatures a year >__<) I havent yet heard much regarding the new KO book so I cant really say how good they are. My guess is that they are better, but how good actually I am not sure. But I mean sure, if you have an idea where you want to take the army, go for it

Not really, second one wasnt that great and the third one.... it was pretty decent, though not as amazing as the frist DA and... well it had some political undertones that do not fit for a game like that, but lets not get deeper into that as to avoid drama. Oh and just to make this clear..... Werewolves.... always go Werewolves if you dont have a diplomatic character that can talk its way out to get both elves and wwolves for the final battle. Why ? Because its Werewolves! :3 (and by no means is that just my Beastmen loving nature speaking right there, or my love for the fluffy adorable murder puppers xd) Nope. Since my army is Catpon themed (Cathay/Nippon, and most of the times will be played as Tempest Eye), I have a friend of mine print me some test models that I designed in the HeroForge application. (Since the only nice ones I found were metal and the scale was tiny compared to AoS stuff) My idea for Corsairs is to use Ninjas. Dual wielding specialists who can also shoot ? Replace the hand crossbow with shuriken and it fits nicely. The Drakecloacks bonus against shooting can be explained by them throwing smokebombs being agile and blending into their surroundings Here is a WIP pic just for curiosity sake: If the test miniatures are a success I will request a whole batch from him as I`d like about 40 of these buggers to run as 2x20 units in the future. 6 Different poses, 3 with ranged weapons represented, though the Xbow is not a valid option unless it becomes integrated into the dual wielding profile (something that would make this unit much less horrible in most peoples eyes), just for the flavor. For the oncoming game I`ll go with the Freeguild Guard, and a Cogsmith as a General. Same price as Fleetmaster, but has a shooting attack and can keep my Hellblaster nice and healthy to dish out those 3D6 shot :3

Sigh.... I didnt even get to use mine that much and now they cost more than is affordable. 180 for enlightened.... jesus, we are back where we started several years ago.... Do we HAVE to use the DoT warscrolls ? I mean how do the rules specify this ? If I am a BoC player, do they expect me to buy the fckn DoT battletome ? They are slowly gutting this army. And I like it not a tiny little bit. I think I am gonna shelve it again. It was fun while it lasted but the power creep all around us and no actual love for beastmen (WHERE ARE THE NEW CENTIGORS ?! hell even chaos warriors got reworked due to old sculpts meanwhile we got shafted hard) is turning me off from this army. Guess I`ll keep working on my CoS in the meantine, no point investing more money into BoC when this army is getting worse with each passing month, and that is literally killing my enjoyment of playing them. Sorry for the negativity, but this is like the 3rd time I`ve seen this happen to Beastmen, the army I like the most, and its starting to wear me down. Its like this army cant catch a break, get a solid book thats really powerful, enough for it to stay that way even with the meta power creep happening, and get at least some love in the form of new models or anything really. I mean what did we get ? 3 spells and a giant rock, which most people had already converted their own by this point anyway... No, stop, enough. I am getting spiteful here. Please ignore me venting my frustration.

Can anyone list the actual changes to All the Tzaangor stuff as far as OUR book is concerned into one cohesive post ?

Heh, well the racism thing is always a part of it no matter which universe you look at. Be it Warcraft, Dungeons and Dragons, Heroes of Might and Magic etc etc. For example I am a huge fan of the first Dragon Age game, where the story was set in a place where the tension between the races was fairly high. Humans viewed elves as sub humans, and treated them as lower class. The elves being the underdog in that part of the world hated humans equally and were miss trusting of others, while the Dwarves hated everyone equally And yet, when the Blight came you as the player unified them against the greater threat, setting aside their prejudices and dislike of each other. I though in these terms, when crafting the story. Its not happy sunshine and roses straight from the get go. There is hate, miss trust and disdain. Grudges to be cleared and oaths to be tested. But the need to survive burries all of that under the piles of their dead enemies as new bonds are born of blood, trust is forged out of necessity and respect is earned on the field of battle. I mean I am a Warhammer fan. Grim and Dark is my bread and butter. But I also enjoy some occasional puppies and kitty cats (meaning less grimd dark and more on the happy end of thing, unless it was clear XD). But I digress. The list I was thinking about is something like this:

Seems like a decent enough list for 1K points Honestly reading through what you wrote, my mind already started to construct a pseudo background lore for your City based upon the models you have listed. A mighty Freeguild General twirling his most manly of mustaches and a sleek Shadowblade Assassin with sexi voice and a bit of a tsundere personality making for a really dynamic duo with plenty of both funny and heart touching moments ^^ Starting as a rag tag band of mercenary survivors of some long campaign, the different groups meet each other and an unexpected friendship and respect is formed in between these two groups (one being the human-duardin mercenaries the other being the shadowy non trusting guardians of the realms outskirts) as they struggle against all odds, bond and become stronger together. Eventually getting completely cut off from any chance of getting back home they settle in some remote yet fairly safe place a settlement which lays down the foundaition of a mighty City to be! (as you collection grows and takes more personalized shape) But hey, that just the first idea I got. The first glimpse of the story my creative sparks started to ignite regarding this I am sure you`ll come up with something nice on your own (or just feel free to use this as an inspiration if you liked it ^^) Going to play with a fairly new player and his Seraphon soon, and since only started building his army we`ll got with 1K format as well. Its surprising how much flavor (and strength, make no mistake) this army can stuff in such a limited format without the need to rely on the heroes too much. And for that list I have a mix of what.... 4-5 of the CoS subfaction ? So dont be discouraged by trying this or that. Cities of Sigmar are a rewarding army for a hobbyist player (the hobby being important part of that equation), and are the closest to the more traditional Fantasy genre with its mixed population of different "Good" Races (they give quite the DnD vibe :) )

I noticed to many people in the CoS thread focus to much on the individual subfaction generals and what can they do. Honestly, the Warscrolls of most units in this army can perform quite well even without the generals aid. Sisters of the Watch ? Shadow Warriors ? Wild Riders ? Phoenix Guard ? Gyrocopters ? Dragons Phoenixes, Hydra and othe big gribblies, Etc etc etc None of these require their specific general to perform well. And the City buff affect everyone equally. If you are planning on going for ETC tournaments and such I guess min maxing the ever living poop out of your list makes sense but otherwise ? You can very easily build a competitive yet fun list for everydays gaming without paying attention to stuff like that. People are stressing to much about it. Just imagine all the roles in your army and the general style you want to play, and once done start filling those roles randomly. At first you end up with a draft that, once you start adding the Cities, Battalions and spells that will come into effect. This will shift and change the list a lot before you`re done with it. The heroes while important shouldnt be hampering your list building unless its some big expensive stuff like Gryf riders, Annointed on Phoenix or the Black Dragon duo. Those are as much monsters as they are heroes. Their cost and battlefield role differs quite different from the small guys shouldnt be a chain that is binding you. It should be a supplement to the force you already have going on. To me personally the great fun factor about the army is just that > the Mix and Mesh aspect of combining anything and everything and still make it work. Heck I am pretty sure you could run the army without any of the top priority heroes and still have equally good chance of winning. Aint really that many armies out there who can do this. (Most of them either require their heroes who bring way to much utility to be ignored, or the exact opposite, their heroes bring so little other that they are taken mostly just because or not taken at all...).