The best combat, Non-Behemoth, Leader

[Ben]

As the title says.

Who is the best combat character in the game that's not a Behemoth.

I'd be interested in knowing your thoughts on this with and without taking points into account. So Open and Matched play (because this does make a big difference!  

I'll start with a couple.  

Lord Celestant on Dracoth - 220 points so decent value in open and matched play.  dishes out the damage but suffered with rend.  Has access to some traits and artefacts that add to survivability and damage output.

Shar'tor the Executioner - A bit on the expensive side but great in open play.  5 attacks at rend -2, Damage 3 and a few from his hooves too. Chances for more damage and a good horde clearing ability.  

Any thoughts? 

[Lucio]

I'd look at the Ogroid Thaumaturge, able to self heal, cast several spells to augment his damage output and has some solid attacks to boot.

[stuntymike]

Valkia - 120pt mini Bloodthirster and -1 to wound in combat.

Belegar - 140pt 3up save, halving wounds, can attack twice once per game and has a cracking command ability

[rokapoke]

@Ben, interesting how you ask us to disregard points and yet mention points for both of your examples... 

I'd throw the Lord-Celestant on foot out there as a great example. After using his command ability, he gets 4 attacks with a 2+/3+ rend -1 weapon and 2 attacks with a 3+/3+ weapon. Plus, if he charged he gets a bonus attack with each. On top of that, if you're throwing him into combat surrounded by his buddies they all get a boost from his command ability. PLUS, he has an opportunity to throw up to D6 mortal wounds out at a 16" range. 

And to top it all off he has that standard Stormcast hero save of 3+, so he's tough to knock around. Pretty solid total-package character if you ask me.

[CoffeeGrunt]

The Wight Ki...Maybe the Vampire Lord? 

No? 

*Sobs.*

[Ben]

55 minutes ago, rokapoke said:

@Ben, interesting how you ask us to disregard points and yet mention points for both of your examples... 

I didn't say that! I said with and with out points.  

[Urbanus]

Throwing my vote in with Valkia aswell as Scylla. I find him quite potent!

[Heksagon]

I would say:
- Lord Celestant on Dracoth - He can be VERY tanky thanks to the new Battletome (220 points)

- Lord Veritant (not really popular opinion) - he's cheap, heavy hitting, he can unbind spells (any amount), and he can choose one prayer from the battletome. That's huge for 120 points.

- Mighty Lord of Khorne  

[Matt Pashby]

The Archaon on horse is a beast. He's a bit expensive also, I think 320, but with a 3+ 5+ save, and the ability to bounce mortal wounds back, he's pretty survivable. Obviously his sword is terrifying. Also, just for fun, Crom the Conqueror is a great little Leader to throw in for 3 places of power. 3+ 5+ save and he's -1 to hit in combat for 80 points. 

[fartsocks]

Haven't got round to playing with him yet, but the Fyreslayers Grimwrath Bezerker looks pretty handy. 100 points, has a 4+ save and a ward save which gets better if surrounded by enemies. Has one 8" ranged attack and 4 attacks at 3+ 3+ -1 D3. He can also fight on if killed before he had a chance to attack that turn, and there's a chance that he can pile in and attack again each turn.

[Requizen]

If named characters are allowed, Settra is a very solid pick. Fast, hard to kill with his extra saves, and a Rend -2 Damage 3 weapon that gets extra attacks on the charge! He should 1v1 anything short of a Stonehorn imo.

If we're not talking named, Ironjawz Megaboss or Lord Celestant on Stardrake are probably the two fightiest I've seen. 

[rokapoke]

58 minutes ago, Ben said:

I didn't say that! I said with and with out points.  

Hm. Well, I did wake up in the middle of the night, so I'm running on about 2.5 hours of sleep. I'll blame that.

Regardless, with/without points I stand by my nomination of the Lord-Celestant on foot.

[ledha]

the grimwrath berserker is insane. Send him in the whole ennemy army and look him chopping guys left and right with a 4+ save then a (usually) 2+ invulnerable save. He can destroy whole armies in 1000 pts games

[Thain]

Grimgor Ironhide. It's right there on his Warscroll, his very first Ability is "I'm Da Best!" so it's clearly official. 

Kidding aside, he does indeed snik gits good with Gitsnik. Assuming you're playing to his strengths and have positioned him within 10" of another Orruk Hero, his ace has four attacks hitting on 2+ (And a 1+ on his Command Ability turn). Plus his Ardboyz get perms-buffed quite nicely too. His Command Abolity is an insane force multiplier for Brutes, Brute Bosses, and Megabosses.

[rokapoke]

1 hour ago, ledha said:

the grimwrath berserker is insane. Send him in the whole ennemy army and look him chopping guys left and right with a 4+ save then a (usually) 2+ invulnerable save. He can destroy whole armies in 1000 pts games

You usually have him surrounded by 4 enemy units? If that's the case, then your opponent is just asking for trouble. 

[Lord Aquillor]

Honestly, Lord Castellant has done the most work for me.  His +1 to save is so useful coupled with Staunch Defender.  He is pretty deadly in combat and makes a large pack of hounds darting in and out of combat a nightmare for horde armies.  I have 13 Hounds though so they can be quite ridiculous with him.   Hounds aside, point wise, this guy really does what a SCE hero should do for his points.  Making a Blob of Libbys 2+ rerolling ones is going to make your opponent cry when trying to retake objectives.  

 

Second would be Lord Relictor, IMHO.  80pts has never done so much.  Lightning Chariot and Bless Weapons are already pretty solid on top of all his other goodness.  If it was solely on bang for your buck, this guy wins hands down. 

[ledha]

2 minutes ago, rokapoke said:

You usually have him surrounded by 4 enemy units? If that's the case, then your opponent is just asking for trouble. 

against armies with many heroes and MSU, or someone with a stacked playstile (when everyone need to be near everyone for the sake of buffing) it is shockingly easy to reach 3-4 units in the same area

[Lord Veshnakar]

Grot Warboss w/Moon Prodda and Giant Cave Squig w/ Battle Brew artifact and "Might is Right" command trait. Using his "I'm da Boss, now Stab 'em good" command ability on himself which causes any wound roll of 6 or more to do double damage. Battle brew and might is right adds +2 to this so it goes off on a 4+ to wound.

He has the following

D6 14" range attacks that hit on 3+ and wound on 2+. -1 rend, 1 damage, and any wound roll of 4+ does double damage. Potential of 8 damage.

4 Melee Attacks with the moon prodda that hit on a 3. wound on a 2, -1 rend, 1 damage any wound roll of 4+ does double damage. Potential of 8 damage.

4 squig attacks, hit on 3+, wound on 2+, -1 rend, D3 damage. Any wound roll of 4+ does D6 damage instead of D3 due to "down in one" ability and thanks to the command ability will be doubled doing 2xD6 damage. Potential of 2d6 x 4 damage.

For a grand total of 80 points you get a potential 56 damage in combat. Fairly frail but a nice surprise as a one off.

[Criti]

I have to weigh in with the Celestant Prime. 

He can come in at any time.  He can come in at any place.  He can almost guarantee himself a charge, and he's absolute murder in close combat.  Very little can survive his attacks, especially if he doesn't come on until Turn 3 or 4.

His 3+ Save isn't awful, and mortal wounds tear him down, sure... but the question was about "combat" and whatever he puts himself in combat with will likely be dead before it gets a chance to swing.  And isn't that the best defense one could ask for?

[avanp]

IMO the Abhorrent Ghoul King on foot is a top contender. He's 100 points, 6 attacks with rend, can cast spells, and can bring in Ghouls.

[Tuluth]

Orruk Megaboss. His natural 7 wounds, 3+ save, 6 attacks at 3/3 -1 rend 2 damage is good, and additional 2 attacks at 5/3 -2 rend D3 damage is great when it hits (mine never does). Being able to churn out a potential 18 wounds base every combat round is fairly reliable The Strength from Victory ability adds 1 to his wounds (a heal essentially) and 1 additional attack to his Choppa every time he kills a Hero.

If we were to munchkin him, and take optimal conditions (so no Rule of Ones), and all buffs for him alone from the generic Destruction traits, we would have the following:

Buff from Battle Brew (1 swig): +1 hit / +1 wound rolls.

Wild Fury (an ability that is never taken):+1 hit if he's lost any wounds. At less than half STARTING wounds +1 hit / +1 wound rolls. RAW on this would be 3 wounds, no matter how high his max health is. RAI, I would argue that less than half his maximum wounds triggers this.

So, under those conditions, he would have 6 attacks at 1/1 -1 rend 2 damage, increasing the number of attacks if he smashes a Hero. Rip Fist is doing 2 attacks at 3/1 -2 rend D3 damage.

 

 

[HadrielCaine]

Varghulf!

[thediceabide]

What no love for the Ogor Tyrant?

8 wounds (can be up to 10 with the right Trait and Big Name) with a 4+ save. His Great Gouger combined with Battle Brew does 6 damage at -2 rend on a 4+ to wound (with a double swig)... Sure he only has 3 attacks, but when he hits, it hurts. His Big Name can give him some amazing abilities, from an extra wound, +1 to wound on the charge (with that Great Gouger), a 3+ save, or even increasing his Great Gouger to Damage 4 against monsters (meaning 8 wounds when it goes off).

If the spiky damage isn't your thing, you can just go with 4 attacks that hit/wound on 2's (single swig), -2 Rend and 3 Damage.

To make things better, he can eat D3 Gutbuster Grots, making them immune to Battle Shock so long as he's alive.

[Tubs]

5 hours ago, fartsocks said:

Haven't got round to playing with him yet, but the Fyreslayers Grimwrath Bezerker looks pretty handy. 100 points, has a 4+ save and a ward save which gets better if surrounded by enemies. Has one 8" ranged attack and 4 attacks at 3+ 3+ -1 D3. He can also fight on if killed before he had a chance to attack that turn, and there's a chance that he can pile in and attack again each turn.

Grimmy is 80 points now! He is my vote for 4A/3+/3+/-1/D3 very often he piles in twice, 2+ to stay til end of combat, 6 wounds 4+ Save and a hair save that gets stronger the more aggressive he is. 80 BLOODY POINT!!

[WoollyMammoth]

Thanquol hands down. But that is because he has no business being a non-behemoth.