Spearhead discussion

[Mcthew]

1 hour ago, Gitzdee said:

I am also still hyped for Spearhead, just want to know if its more like a boardgame or a wargame. Both are fine with me as long as i get to push around some minis.

Love it. If it works for you then Spearhead will scratch that itch. 

Personally, I have Underworlds and Warcry to do that, and still play them so much less that 3rd. We're a boardgame family so we dabble in everything from Ticket to Ride to Cthulhu Death May Die, which we play more than Underworlds and Warcry, but we play all of them much less frequently than AoS - we put away around 30 games of AoS a year. Hence my slight negativity towards Spearhead. It just doesn't fill a need for me as we have boardgames that do that, and I stress that's just me.

After all, if GW do fully support Spearhead unlike Combat Patrol, and it becomes a thing, even a boardgame thing, that draws in more hobbyists rather than alienate them, then that can't be bad, right?

[Flippy]

10 minutes ago, Mcthew said:

After all, if GW do fully support Spearhead unlike Combat Patrol, and it becomes a thing, even a boardgame thing, that draws in more hobbyists rather than alienate them, then that can't be bad, right?

That is my hope as well. I really think that such hybrid-style mode has the potential to mix the good stuff from both worlds. 

It will never feel the same as a full wargame experience, but you still get to choose a faction, assemble and paint a significant number of minis and play with them - hopefully with a tight ruleset.

[woolf]

The narrative of it being board game rather than wargame seems to stick a bit, I know Rob talked about it in his videos so maybe its coming from him?

Personally if I can have a "boardgame" that allows me to continue with the hobby (even expand as I can branch out to different factions without the full investment) and at the same time more easily get my other non-AOS playing but Axis & Allies loving friends to play it with me (perhaps just using my models, that I anyways bought since I like the hobby side) then whats not to like with that?! seems perfect to me! We anyways spend (at least I do) 99% of time painting and 1% playing...

And then those who want to go one level deeper has access to the full game, I honestly think this set up is brilliant so well done to the strategy team to come up with it. I never quite liked warcry as it feels too different from AOS and the list building was a bit problematic as requiring quite a bit of set-up, the approach of fixed teams address that, also the fact that spearhead rules are much more similar to AOS makes it a much much better on-ramp (and in addition the boxes are good starting points for a full army rather than just using odd models as Warcry is). 

All in all very hyped about Spearhead and I think it might be what I need to also get my kids on board with this hobby

[Gitzdee]

5 hours ago, Mcthew said:

Love it. If it works for you then Spearhead will scratch that itch. 

Personally, I have Underworlds and Warcry to do that, and still play them so much less that 3rd. We're a boardgame family so we dabble in everything from Ticket to Ride to Cthulhu Death May Die, which we play more than Underworlds and Warcry, but we play all of them much less frequently than AoS - we put away around 30 games of AoS a year. Hence my slight negativity towards Spearhead. It just doesn't fill a need for me as we have boardgames that do that, and I stress that's just me.

After all, if GW do fully support Spearhead unlike Combat Patrol, and it becomes a thing, even a boardgame thing, that draws in more hobbyists rather than alienate them, then that can't be bad, right?

I am also a boardgamer but i dont actually own many games that include minis. I always avoided those because that part of the hobby has always been covered by AoS/40k. That said, i could never get into underworlds for similar reasons, i have so many games with card combos etc that i never felt the need to get into it and i even own a few warbands with the cards. Warcry has been perfect for me, i get to enjoy building terrain, painting minis and actually play the game because its quite fast, rules are free and i can actually use most of the minis i already own and maybe never used. I also never played the same warband twice, just so much replay value here. I think Spearhead could be fun with friends. Paint up a box of minis and have fun with a few light games. I think it has its place and can be enjoyed by a lot of people. I think its also great for kids.

Edited May 22 by Gitzdee

[Chikout]

Lots of thoughts.

Re timing. The live game clocked in a just under two hours for a full game. There was lots of showboating by the players, lots of answering questions from the commentary team, checking rules with the table boss,  rechecking cards etc. Once you've got the rules down it wouldn't surprise me to see games ranging between 60 and 90 minutes. I asked someone who played in the first tournament at Dallas and they said that games on day two went much quicker than day 1 as everyone learnt the rules. 

How boardgamey is it? There's a lot of talk about the cards but you literally only have three at a time and they represent things you do in the full game in arguably a more interesting way. There's still terrain, line of sight, free movement within the play space, tactics etc. 

In the early days of AoS there were a lot of complaints about the fact that everyone just charges into a moshpit in the middle but that proved not to be the case. I suspect the same will be true here. 

I listened to AoS coach, Helstorm Mickey, 2+ tough, and read comments from about a dozen people on discord. Everyone said the game was fun and those who also played combat patrol said Spearhead was better. 

[sandlemad]

1 hour ago, Chikout said:

How boardgamey is it? There's a lot of talk about the cards but you literally only have three at a time and they represent things you do in the full game in arguably a more interesting way. There's still terrain, line of sight, free movement within the play space, tactics etc. 

Tbh this is something that’s jumped out at me, the idea of it being ‘boardgamey’ seems to be a pretty shallow idea. Everything I’ve seen suggests that use of the term doesn’t refer to actual qualities of boardgames or Spearheqd, and is more a shorthand for ‘not wholly listbuilding-focused and different to a narrow version of 2000pt matched play’.

[Gitzdee]

34 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

Tbh this is something that’s jumped out at me, the idea of it being ‘boardgamey’ seems to be a pretty shallow idea. Everything I’ve seen suggests that use of the term doesn’t refer to actual qualities of boardgames or Spearheqd, and is more a shorthand for ‘not wholly listbuilding-focused and different to a narrow version of 2000pt matched play’.

The actual board, preset armies and the cards look like boardgame elements fused with a tabletop wargame. I hope in a good way ^^.

[Flippy]

41 minutes ago, sandlemad said:

Tbh this is something that’s jumped out at me, the idea of it being ‘boardgamey’ seems to be a pretty shallow idea. Everything I’ve seen suggests that use of the term doesn’t refer to actual qualities of boardgames or Spearheqd, and is more a shorthand for ‘not wholly listbuilding-focused and different to a narrow version of 2000pt matched play’.

The „board game” association is mainly due to:

- the board itself;

- preset lists;

- ruleset that should not require any modification from the players.

I’ve said this before, but regular AoS requires a significant amount of self-policing and modifications if you want to play small games. Doable for more experienced gamers but hardly user-friendly.

[Enoby]

Personally, I'm really excited for Spearhead - and I'm not usually a big fan of board games! 

While list building is nice, and I certainly wouldn't want it going away for the main game, I appreciate the idea of having a small version to play that can be completed in around an hour. 

Sometimes you'd like Wargame-like tactics without the whole faff of setting up 2k points. 

My only hope is they continue to support this. Even White Dwarf creating new Spearhead teams would be very nice to see!

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Just now, Flippy said:

I’ve said this before, but regular AoS requires a significant amount of self-policing and modifications if you want to play small games. Doable for more experienced gamers but hardly user-friendly.

Self-policing, and also straight up homebrewing to make battleplans conceived for a 60"x44" board and 10+ units per side actually play well. That was that was always the biggest barrier to small games (sub 1000 points) for me. I played a few and they were fun, but they did require me to put in a bunch of design work that new players can't do because they lack AoS system mastery.

The self-policing point is really salient to me as well, though. It frequently caused some friction in my low point games when one side could assemble a unit combo, while the other either could not get there due to points or restrictions on big models.

In a way, I think Spearhead is the natural solution to the problems with low points AoS. A smaller board with a mission system tuned for it, recurring chaff units and fixed lists all made immediate sense to me because they directly adressed problems that I personally experienced with small games.

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

3 minutes ago, Enoby said:

Personally, I'm really excited for Spearhead - and I'm not usually a big fan of board games! 

While list building is nice, and I certainly wouldn't want it going away for the main game, I appreciate the idea of having a small version to play that can be completed in around an hour. 

Sometimes you'd like Wargame-like tactics without the whole faff of setting up 2k points. 

My only hope is they continue to support this. Even White Dwarf creating new Spearhead teams would be very nice to see!

I think it is really easy for long time players to forget the barrier to entry and just how steep it is. Just being able to pick a Spearhead, play a game right away and get a feeling for what makes a good warscroll by actual experince is so huge. Having to decide what units you want in your list in the abstract, by just looking at the warscrolls before you even play a game, is so difficult. Unless you are based "I just play what looks the coolest" chad, of course.

[Ejecutor]

On 5/17/2024 at 6:57 PM, novakai said:

I mean I feel eventually people will  just get bored of the same unit composition or if they didn’t like the composition of your armies Spearhead box in the first place. At some point people will go back to proper AoS where they can use their full army without restrictions.

But they release more inside WDs and with new Spearheads we will have more options for the armies as well. Obviously, you don't have the full build your army experience, but I don't think this game mode is aimed at the same target.

[Ejecutor]

On 5/17/2024 at 7:55 PM, Arzalyn said:

We honestly don't know. They are really promoting it, much more than they did with combat patrol. The opinion of people that played it so far said it was much better than combat patrol as well, so it looks promising. I wouldn't be surprised if they already have at least 1 expansion book planed for next year considering the time it takes to make those things.

I imagine it will depend how much other spearhead options they will release for each faction with time. The bigger ones can easily have 3 or more spearhead compositions if they want so. Also I not sure all people would just go back to 2k . Much of the interest people are having is in the smaller amount of buys and time commitment to play the game and this something 2k will never be able to offer.

Even if Combat Patrol didn't succeed, they are promoting it quite hard, IMO. Considering there's a whole collectable around it I would say they are trying to bring it back to track.

If Spearhead also gets its own collectable it could be a really nice push in terms of playerbase.

[Ejecutor]

On 5/17/2024 at 8:11 PM, Tonhel said:

True, but it is in GW interest that players move on to 2k games and not only buy Spearhead sets.

Unless you buy ALL the spearheads 😅

[Ejecutor]

On 5/18/2024 at 1:15 AM, Gitzdee said:

Also, what armies are still missing boxes at the moment? I think Ironjaws could use one at least. Khorne and Nurgle still missing too?

 

So far we have:

- DOK.
- SOB.
- KO.
- Nurgle.
- Silvaneth.
- HoS.
- Khorne.
- OBR.
- SG.
- GG.
- Ogors.
- ID.
- Warclans.
- NH.
- Seraphon.
- Tzeentch.
- FS.

Unseen yet:

- LRL.
- S2D.

Edited May 22 by Ejecutor

[Ejecutor]

On 5/20/2024 at 8:07 AM, Beliman said:

Imho (and without any games played), replayability comes from the 2 pack of cards or just switching armies with buying just one box, exactly like Underworlds. List-building is not part of the game, and I think that I prefer to see a new seasonal rules with a new pack with 2 diferent realms than just an add-on to use other units.

Considering the book is called Fire and Jade it is clear that we will have seasonal rules.

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

 Unless you are based "I just play what looks the coolest" chad, of course.

Guilty as charged... 

[Ejecutor]

On 5/20/2024 at 8:15 PM, Draznak said:

Can we start thinking that Ogors will have a new spearhead ? In the few photos showing new boxes, they don't appear...

I don't know much about this army yet, but I wonder if current box isn't too good a deal (too many army points) and if they're going to make a new one with fewer minis...

I'm already interested in Ironjawz as a new army and there's a risk that they won't have spearhead, but if ogors changes as well... GW are mad at me !

There's a pic of the Ogor spearhead in the downloadable section of the retailer site.

[Ejecutor]

13 hours ago, Gitzdee said:

I am also still hyped for Spearhead, just want to know if its more like a boardgame or a wargame. Both are fine with me as long as i get to push around some minis.

Seems like something in between both to me.

[Gaz Taylor]

My two pence...

I think Spearhead looks ace. I'm a Dad to an autistic child, enjoy spending time with my family and work full time. Here is a version of the game which is straight forwards to pick up, assemble and paint and play games with. Here is a version of the game which is official, which means it will be played in clubs and the chances of me being able to get games increases. Here is a version of the game which is open to anyone and everyone. This ticks loads of boxes for me and I'm really looking forwards to playing with it. I just hope there's a version where you just need two Spearhead boxes, Dice and place to play rather than focusing on the seasonal packs. I'm also hoping that when you buy a Spearhead, you either get a copy of the rules in the box or a link/QR code to get to the rules.

Just thinking about some of the negativity though. I think it's easy to be negative about something and GW do make it easy to do so as the wrestling showdown was rubbish. I also agree with some of the comments about marketing of the game but I do think sometimes that they have to be taken with a pinch of salt depending on who is making the comment. For example, some people hate Marmite for some reason!  

However, I do think Spearhead is a great version of the game and hopefully will be popular. If it is something you are going to enjoy and people you play with will enjoy it, who cares about the negativity. 

[PraetorDragoon]

As somebody who has messed around a lot with trying to make small games of AOS work properly, I'm actually quite interested in seeing how it works. The main make or break for me will be how the small board feels when playing. 

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

11 minutes ago, Gaz Taylor said:

Here is a version of the game which is official, which means it will be played in clubs and the chances of me being able to get games increases.

That's a big advantage not many people are picking up on. It is very helpful to have a common base line of what a small AoS game. Being able to play without first having to negotiate specifics (points level, table size, bans...) is huge.

14 minutes ago, PraetorDragoon said:

As somebody who has messed around a lot with trying to make small games of AOS work properly, I'm actually quite interested in seeing how it works. The main make or break for me will be how the small board feels when playing. 

If you look at the Spearhead board, the objectives are on the corners of the board (as well as the center), while they are usually on quarter or half-way lines in big AoS.

If you lay it out in real life, the distances are more similar to full AoS than you might expect at first.

[PraetorDragoon]

33 minutes ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

That's a big advantage not many people are picking up on. It is very helpful to have a common base line of what a small AoS game. Being able to play without first having to negotiate specifics (points level, table size, bans...) is huge.

If you look at the Spearhead board, the objectives are on the corners of the board (as well as the center), while they are usually on quarter or half-way lines in big AoS.

If you lay it out in real life, the distances are more similar to full AoS than you might expect at first.

Personally, I have to actually play things before I can get a good grasp if the distances feel right. I have played games on a 6x4 table that felt cramped, and on a 2x2 field where things felt far away. 

[PraetorDragoon]

1 hour ago, Ejecutor said:

 

So far we have:

- DOK.
- SOB.
- KO.
- Nurgle.
- Silvaneth.
- HoS.
- Khorne.
- OBR.
- SG.
- GG.
- Ogors.
- ID.
- Warclans.
- NH.
- Seraphon.
- Tzeentch.
- FS.

Unseen yet:

- LRL.
- S2D.

We have seen the Lumineth Realmlords rules, which are the same as the current vanguard.

[Ejecutor]

Just now, PraetorDragoon said:

We have seen the Lumineth Realmlords rules, which are the same as the current vanguard.

So basically, we have one for all the factions 😅