Repairing the lore

[RossMHoward]

21 minutes ago, wayniac said:

As an old school dark elf player from 5th. Wtf with malekith? So he was screwed out of being king and it wasn't just because he was evil that the flames rejected him? So dark elves were right all along and we were wrongly exiled from ulthuan by out traitorous brethren?

I do not mind lore but I want to see them try and give a flavor other than just bring back the stuff they already got rid of when they destroyed the world. Aelves are going to be interesting to see how they come three different looking aspects into one.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
 

Na dude. He was the true king all along. Previous Phoenix Kings walked through the fire with magical wards around them. He tried to do it solo and was burned almost the death as a result. People took it to mean he wasn't worthy but he actually survived where none of the other's would have. It was a big old scam!

[wayniac]

4 minutes ago, RossMHoward said:

Na dude. He was the true king all along. Previous Phoenix Kings walked through the fire with magical wards around them. He tried to do it solo and was burned almost the death as a result. People took it to mean he wasn't worthy but he actually survived where none of the other's would have. It was a big old scam!

Wow they really retconned that stuff (just before destroying everything).  Almost makes me wish they didn't go the AOS route by blowing up the world but ran with the changes from End Times for the new game.

[ElectricPaladin]

I love the big Grand Alliances. It feels very Moorecockian. It's cool to see the game go back to its roots!

[daedalus81]

9 hours ago, buffalozap said:

Careful though cause you'll get scolded for being negative and they don't want that kind of attitude around here.

There are plenty of tolerable negative posts around here.  Just check out the balance discussions.  The problem arises when you mix negative with arrogant.

[polarbear]

2 hours ago, wayniac said:

Wow they really retconned that stuff (just before destroying everything).  Almost makes me wish they didn't go the AOS route by blowing up the world but ran with the changes from End Times for the new game.

I would have preferred if the Old World had been blown up into the realms and the AoS story started from there, rather than skipping over some thousands of years of prosperity and another Chaos dominion and then starting the new story. It would have made a lot more sense bringing some of the old factions/characters to AoS that way instead of it being such a long time distance.

[buffalozap]

3 hours ago, wayniac said:

As an old school dark elf player from 5th. Wtf with malekith? So he was screwed out of being king and it wasn't just because he was evil that the flames rejected him? So dark elves were right all along and we were wrongly exiled from ulthuan by out traitorous brethren?

I do not mind lore but I want to see them try and give a flavor other than just bring back the stuff they already got rid of when they destroyed the world. Aelves are going to be interesting to see how they come three different looking aspects into one.

Sent from my SM-N920T using Tapatalk
 

yes, pretty much, yes. Malekith was right all along, he was always the true phoenix king.

[buffalozap]

1 hour ago, daedalus81 said:

There are plenty of tolerable negative posts around here.  Just check out the balance discussions.  The problem arises when you mix negative with arrogant.

Problem is "arrogant" is a subjective interpretation projected on another person's statements. Its easy to mistake justified confidence with arrogance, especially if confronted with statements you disagree with.

[Sleboda]

Actually, arrogance is easy to identify when the person starts using namecalling as a part of their approach.

[Andreas]

9 minutes ago, buffalozap said:

Problem is "arrogant" is a subjective interpretation projected on another person's statements. Its easy to mistake justified confidence with arrogance, especially if confronted with statements you disagree with.

This is a troll post, its sole purpose is to make people react/respond emotionally without adding any content. You got Me.

[buffalozap]

4 minutes ago, Andreas said:

This is a troll post, its sole purpose is to make people react/respond emotionally without adding any content. You got Me.

I feel very offended by this post, personally insulted and attacked with name calling.  You're a mean person and I'm reporting your post to the forum moderators.

[Gaz Taylor]

++ Mod Mode - Go! ++

Guys, seriously go and have a cup of tea or something as we want this to be a fun place to come to. We want you all to enjoy visiting this forum, so can you all think a bit before replying to something  

Cheers

[ElectricPaladin]

Oy.

Guys.

I agree that the original post was kind of presumptuous, but does that mean that we all have to agree to have this thread be at the lowest possible level? I try to be a good virtual citizen of every community I belong to, and I have from time to time posted presumptuously. Let's assume best intentions - love of the game, desire for awesome conversation - and move on from there. Don't sink - elevate.

I think we can have a conversation about what we love and don't love about the game that is civil and productive.

[Bosmer Nightblade]

23 minutes ago, ElectricPaladin said:

I try to be a good virtual citizen of every community I belong to, and I have from time to time posted presumptuously. Let's assume best intentions - love of the game, desire for awesome conversation

I think the other guys were arguing with each other than anything I'd written.

I love the game. Got four armies

Just putting some thoughts on the table for reworking some lore. There were a few elements I'd like to tweak. Was wondering what others thought.

[ElectricPaladin]

4 minutes ago, Bosmer Nightblade said:

I think the other guys were arguing with each other than anything I'd written.

I love the game. Got four armies

Just putting some thoughts on the table for reworking some lore. There were a few elements I'd like to tweak. Was wondering what others thought.

Yeah, but they were arguing about your post, which is arguably even sillier.

Anyway, back on point, I do think that the world you described is interesting!

[MechaBriZilla]

18 hours ago, Bosmer Nightblade said:

- Rename Stormcast Eternals to Seraphon (seraph ~ angel), and embrace the angelic warrior links they so clearly have.

- Rename current Seraphon to something like 'Dracothian's Brood'. Tie up the lore with Dracothian, and have them take on the wise old ancient lineage race they've always been, with the Stormcast revereing them almost. Remove daemon from their keywords. Think about giving them some form of dragon keyword. An end to space-daemon-aztec-lizards.

- Get off the fence with the Aelves. You've removed distinctions such as high, dark, wood etc, but have still kept them isolated in their respective segregated factions, leading to such travesties as 'Shadowblades' faction being only two units, neither of which are 'Shadow Warriors'. Put assassins, dark riders, shadow warriors all in this faction, and maybe even glade guard, executioners, wildwood rangers and waywatchers. Consider bringing lothern seaguard out of retirement and placing them in the scourge fleet. Merge order draconis and serpentis. Really merge these aelven factions so that we can create decent lists with decent synergy.

- Put Skaven into Destruction. They belong there and the alliance could use the numbers.

- Remove Death as an alliance and replace with Creation. This can then be the foil for Destruction in the way that Order is for Chaos. Add Sylvaneth to Creation and relieve Death of its anemia and allow the combination of the spirits and forces of life and death itself. Rebirth and resurrection.

 

That's how I'd do it anyway.

I like the ideas, but think they would take too much retconning.  Specifically with Death.  The problem there is that a merger between death and life would require serious changes to Nagash and likely his Mortarchs.

On the other hand, I'd really like to see AoS be more fluid than WHFB was.  I'd like to see major characters rise and fall, factions shift over time, and maybe even changes to the Grand Alliances.  A living setting would benefit the game greatly, and so far, that seems to be what GW is going for anyway.  I mean we've already seen a Nurgle general go over to the Stormcast, and we can only begin to hypothesis what the end result of multiple reforgings will be on the Stormcast.  It's entirely possible that things similar to what you've mentioned will come to pass over time.

13 hours ago, Braggoth said:

I say move the Dark Aelves into another faction, I mean these guys torture for pleasure, they're not really "Order-esque". I can see them being in Destruction, creating a tag team of Orcs smashing everyone, and the Dark Aelves capturing and torturing the runaways, all for the sake of lols and giggles.

I tend to think of the Dark Aelves as sort of a Lawful Evil faction, to use D&D for a reference point.  As others mentioned, they are allied in Order, not good.  Warhammer has no 'good' Grand Alliance.  Some of the factions, seem good, like Stormcast.  But even they have their butchers.  Order just means there are rules.  Chaos, no rules.  

5 hours ago, polarbear said:

I hope they either cut down the model range more or fill out all the teeny/old factions, because right now I think it dilutes the feel of AoS.

I feel the opposite way.  I feel like one of the defining characteristics of the setting is the feeling of potential and vastness.  There is no indication of how big realms are.  It appears in the fluff, that each realm may even contain multiple planets, and they certainly contain any number of pocket realms.  In any case, what we do know is that the realms are vast, and even an individual realm can encompass a multitude of different takes on the realms theme.

Ultimately, that makes me feel like there can be any number of factions/races/organizations/etc. that could exist in the realms, and that even though a specific faction, such as Sylvaneth seem to have a 'home' Realm, Ghyran, there could be any number of versions of Sylvaneth living in all of the realms, and taking on the aspects of that realm.  Personally, If i did Sylvaneth, they would come from Shysh, and lean toward the end of the life cycle in appearance.  Anyway, I feel like all of the various factions/model ranges add to that feeling of vastness.

I think the feel of AoS comes from conflict. The Grand Alliances, realms, factions, races, etc. just provide the framework in which the conflicts take place.  GA's representing various 'truths or forces' within existence/or mortal life, that are all present in our own lives, with the moral values removed.  Order, Chaos, Death, Destruction.  Each could be good or evil, depending on how they are moderated, but none of them are good or evil in their purest forms.

Sorry, that got way too philosophical....  But note, I didn't delete any of it either.

[shinros]

14 minutes ago, MechaBriZilla said:

I like the ideas, but think they would take too much retconning.  Specifically with Death.  The problem there is that a merger between death and life would require serious changes to Nagash and likely his Mortarchs.

On the other hand, I'd really like to see AoS be more fluid than WHFB was.  I'd like to see major characters rise and fall, factions shift over time, and maybe even changes to the Grand Alliances.  A living setting would benefit the game greatly, and so far, that seems to be what GW is going for anyway.  I mean we've already seen a Nurgle general go over to the Stormcast, and we can only begin to hypothesis what the end result of multiple reforgings will be on the Stormcast.  It's entirely possible that things similar to what you've mentioned will come to pass over time.

I tend to think of the Dark Aelves as sort of a Lawful Evil faction, to use D&D for a reference point.  As others mentioned, they are allied in Order, not good.  Warhammer has no 'good' Grand Alliance.  Some of the factions, seem good, like Stormcast.  But even they have their butchers.  Order just means there are rules.  Chaos, no rules.  

I feel the opposite way.  I feel like one of the defining characteristics of the setting is the feeling of potential and vastness.  There is no indication of how big realms are.  It appears in the fluff, that each realm may even contain multiple planets, and they certainly contain any number of pocket realms.  In any case, what we do know is that the realms are vast, and even an individual realm can encompass a multitude of different takes on the realms theme.

Ultimately, that makes me feel like there can be any number of factions/races/organizations/etc. that could exist in the realms, and that even though a specific faction, such as Sylvaneth seem to have a 'home' Realm, Ghyran, there could be any number of versions of Sylvaneth living in all of the realms, and taking on the aspects of that realm.  Personally, If i did Sylvaneth, they would come from Shysh, and lean toward the end of the life cycle in appearance.  Anyway, I feel like all of the various factions/model ranges add to that feeling of vastness.

I think the feel of AoS comes from conflict. The Grand Alliances, realms, factions, races, etc. just provide the framework in which the conflicts take place.  GA's representing various 'truths or forces' within existence/or mortal life, that are all present in our own lives, with the moral values removed.  Order, Chaos, Death, Destruction.  Each could be good or evil, depending on how they are moderated, but none of them are good or evil in their purest forms.

Sorry, that got way too philosophical....  But note, I didn't delete any of it either.

I agree Mannfred, Arkhan, neferata and Nagash view being under the way of death and the aspects of unlife to be better. Hell in times of legends sigmar, nagash truly thinks if he kills everyone makes them undead along with some living mortals necromancers/slaves etc there will be eternal peace. 

Of course depending on how you view that he pretty much attempting to end the world just like chaos. 

Also in the sylvaneth battle tome they note they live in all the realms hell some live in Asqhy majority just live in Ghyran. The problem with whfb is that it was too small and doing something could bring certain parts of the setting crashing down. Hence why they took a more "40k"/high fantasy approach like warcraft etc. 

[Ollie Grimwood]

@MechaBriZilla

Nice post. I especially like your thoughts on a more fluid nature to the background. A continuation of the development we've been seeing would be just the ticket. 

[MechaBriZilla]

10 minutes ago, Ollie Grimwood said:

@MechaBriZilla

Nice post. I especially like your thoughts on a more fluid nature to the background. A continuation of the development we've been seeing would be just the ticket. 

Thanks!  I'm out of likes for the day, but wanted to let you know I appreciate the kind words.

[wayniac]

5 hours ago, buffalozap said:

yes, pretty much, yes. Malekith was right all along, he was always the true phoenix king.

Man now I miss my Dark Elves from the old days. 

[daedalus81]

Whoops.  Looks like I started a mini-flame war.  I wasn't trying to imply that the OP was arrogant.  More that the community is tolerable towards negativity.  We just don't want the baggage from old communities.  I hope, anyway.

[MechaBriZilla]

1 minute ago, daedalus81 said:

Whoops.  Looks like I started a mini-flame war.  I wasn't trying to imply that the OP was arrogant.  More that the community is tolerable towards negativity.  We just don't want the baggage from old communities.  I hope, anyway.

I thought your post was quite clear, and I personally appreciated it. Flame wars start when folks react out of anger. I don't think that's what you did.

[Tanka]

I'd really get behind a creation faction... you could say I'm Pro creation.

 

Procreation...

Bow chicka wow wow

Alarielle could wrap those muscly thighs around my waist anyday!

But in all seriousness No. That's a crazy stupid idea. I did like the idea of stormcasts being called Seraphon and Lizardmen changing their fluff to anything good- but thats abotu the end of what i agree with.

 

The guy who replied to you first- about splitting up the dwarven faction and changing Archaon's name to Jeffy- you sir are a humorous ******!

[Kramer]

On 9/29/2016 at 5:49 AM, buffalozap said:

Totally disagree.  If you'd read the literature for the end times you'd know why that is very wrong.  Malekith (king of the dark elves) is now the king of all the elves.  It turns out he should have been all along because jealous haters sabotaged his coronation and every phoenix king there after cheated the test.  Malekith actually turned pretty reasonable in the end, moderating his impulses to mercilessly slaughter his opposition in order to unify the Elf race to stand against the impending doom of chaos.  Poor guy even threw himself under a boulder to save Alarielle (his wife) from being killed and got his own legs smashed to bloody pulp instead, only to have her holding hands with Terion both of them refusing to help him while they all get swallowed by a warp rift. 

 

But hey they (GW) can butcher the lore all they want I suppose.  Maybe they will do like you said and go hard-core cliché on the aelf leftovers, because why would they want to appeal to the fan base that supported the game for decades, right?

Where did you read this? Sounds good and haven't read it. 

[Kamose]

I'm calling Archaon "Jeffy" from now on.  Even in Total Warhammer.  He's Jeffy.  Forever.
 

[Turgol]

The only thing that needs fixing is Death GA being like 1/10 of Order or Chaos and like 1/5 of Destruction. But "Creation" solution will not take place. The real solution was already suggested by someone on these forums: corrupted (that means: controlled by Nagash after too many reforges) Stormcast. That would be cool and put Death on par with the other factions.