Soulblight Gravelords Discussion - 3rd edition.

[MotherGoose]

3 hours ago, Wordy9th said:

People keep talking about spirit gale doing 2 mortals a turn but that’s only on a 9+ so it’s fairly unlikely? Or am I missing something 

Yea it is, but I love me some magic heavy armies so I usually build with cogs for rerolls.

Necrarchs were my fave back in the day - then vyrkos. Now we've lost the rerolls I don't have a full on favourite sub faction anymore but I love blood, night and vyrkos.

Edited April 24, 2023 by MotherGoose

[Sception]

its a nice spell, procs army wide battleshock tests, puts pressure on small support heroes.  not game deciding, but it adds up.

[Leshoyadut]

So, as a thought experiment, fully (and probably overly) maximizing Spirit Gale: Belladamma with a Corpse Cart nearby and Cogs. +2 to cast and re-rolls. .05% chance to miscast, 2.78% chance to fail it, and an average of 1.45 wounds to all of your opponent's army every turn. Grab Umbral Spellportal, too, just for giggles to have some better range on everything else so her second cast each turn doesn't go to waste? 390 points for the buffiest of pieces you could ever get, though, which does not feel super worth it.

I think the aforementioned Corpse Cart + Vampire Lord in a corner is probably the right call, but if you have a grindy enough army to make Belladamma work, it could be funny.

[MotherGoose]

1 hour ago, Leshoyadut said:

So, as a thought experiment, fully (and probably overly) maximizing Spirit Gale: Belladamma with a Corpse Cart nearby and Cogs. +2 to cast and re-rolls. .05% chance to miscast, 2.78% chance to fail it, and an average of 1.45 wounds to all of your opponent's army every turn. Grab Umbral Spellportal, too, just for giggles to have some better range on everything else so her second cast each turn doesn't go to waste? 390 points for the buffiest of pieces you could ever get, though, which does not feel super worth it.

I think the aforementioned Corpse Cart + Vampire Lord in a corner is probably the right call, but if you have a grindy enough army to make Belladamma work, it could be funny.

Yea benefit to this is bella is just amazing too - portal turning people into dogs and locking them in combat/stopping stand and shoot is phenomenal 

[KriticalKhan]

I only play very, very casually so I can't speak for how well received these particular changes might be (and I'm too lazy to check the threads older than this one :^) ) and I really only pick up armybooks for the funny words and pretty pictures, but it looks like Lauka Vai and the Vengorians lost their rampage, Anika doesn't have a heal effect on her sword, and Kritza doesn't respawn anymore? Were those errata'd out before this release? Kinda disappointing.

Regardless, the lore is as gothic and macabre as ever and I swear this time I'm going to finish my backlog of skeletons before another box of Grave Guard mysteriously appears in it. I can only assume this is the work of a rogue necromancer and no fault of my own.

On a completely unrelated note, does anyone know where I can find the old SC! for cheap?

[Leshoyadut]

37 minutes ago, KriticalKhan said:

I only play very, very casually so I can't speak for how well received these particular changes might be (and I'm too lazy to check the threads older than this one :^) ) and I really only pick up armybooks for the funny words and pretty pictures, but it looks like Lauka Vai and the Vengorians lost their rampage, Anika doesn't have a heal effect on her sword, and Kritza doesn't respawn anymore? Were those errata'd out before this release? Kinda disappointing.

Annika now just has The Hunger, which can still full heal her (though it's unlikely to since it's based on her damage), and Kritza is now a summonable unit and can thus come back from Endless Legions. Kritza lost his -1 to hit thing, too.

In exchange, Annika can now deep strike, and Kritza can de-power an artefact for a turn and retreat during combat. Their attack profiles are also slightly better.

Overall, I'd say they're probably about the same. Maybe slightly worse. Still about as usable, though: fun for casual play, not terribly competitive.

[KriticalKhan]

47 minutes ago, Leshoyadut said:

Annika now just has The Hunger, which can still full heal her (though it's unlikely to since it's based on her damage), and Kritza is now a summonable unit and can thus come back from Endless Legions. Kritza lost his -1 to hit thing, too.

In exchange, Annika can now deep strike, and Kritza can de-power an artefact for a turn and retreat during combat. Their attack profiles are also slightly better.

Overall, I'd say they're probably about the same. Maybe slightly worse. Still about as usable, though: fun for casual play, not terribly competitive.

Yep, looks like I completely missed the keyword for him. This is why I stay out of competitive games 😬

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

7 hours ago, KriticalKhan said:

I only play very, very casually so I can't speak for how well received these particular changes might be (and I'm too lazy to check the threads older than this one :^) ) and I really only pick up armybooks for the funny words and pretty pictures, but it looks like Lauka Vai and the Vengorians lost their rampage, Anika doesn't have a heal effect on her sword, and Kritza doesn't respawn anymore? Were those errata'd out before this release? Kinda disappointing.

Regardless, the lore is as gothic and macabre as ever and I swear this time I'm going to finish my backlog of skeletons before another box of Grave Guard mysteriously appears in it. I can only assume this is the work of a rogue necromancer and no fault of my own.

On a completely unrelated note, does anyone know where I can find the old SC! for cheap?

For Kritza and Annika, I remember thinking their warscrolls improved when I read them. I have both of them but never put them on the table with the 2nd ed tome.

Kritza loses his -1 to hit, but gains the Hunger plus the SUMMONABLE keyword. SUMMONABLE is great, because it allows him to be resurrected, healed from Deathly Invocation and deploy in the grave. In my opinion, he is a pretty fun, annoying melee assassin guy who actually has a pretty good chance of getting around enemy lines and stealing an artefact from an opposing hero. I also like that he got the Skaven "retreat instead of fighting" rule.

As for Annika, has her ward of 4+, but also deep strikes now and permanently worsens the save of heroes and monsters. I think this effect stacks. I can see a case for using her in a list.

Both also had their melee profiles buffed a bit. But most importantly, in Vyrkos, they now get to hold artefacts and gain command traits, which I think makes them pretty attractive in that subfaction.

[TechnoVampire]

I have a wee rules question (it’s SBGL specific, so thought it would be ok to ask here). If we have a summonable unit in a battalion that provides an ongoing benefit (say galletian veterans) and that unit is destroyed, and then a new replacement unit is returned at half strength using the endless legions ability, is that new unit part of the battalion, providing it with the same benefits as the unit it replaced? 

Edited April 25, 2023 by TechnoVampire

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 hour ago, TechnoVampire said:

I have a wee rules question (it’s SBGL specific, so thought it would be ok to ask here). If we have a summonable unit in a battalion that provides an ongoing benefit (say galletian veterans) and that unit is destroyed, and then a new replacement unit is returned at half strength using the endless legions ability, is that new unit part of the battalion, providing it with the same benefits as the unit it replaced? 

The language suggests that replaced units are new units, but replaced heroes are the same hero. We will have to wait for word of god for anything more definitive. If I recall correctly, in the last book replacement units were new units.

[Craze]

1 hour ago, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

The language suggests that replaced units are new units, but replaced heroes are the same hero. We will have to wait for word of god for anything more definitive. If I recall correctly, in the last book replacement units were new units.

In case of Heroes it is also very interesting in regard to Artifacts and Command Traits carried by this Hero.

[LeonBox]

1 hour ago, Craze said:

In case of Heroes it is also very interesting in regard to Artifacts and Command Traits carried by this Hero.

Several reviews have confirmed that this is the case, as it is the same character, and thus keeps any artefacts/command traits. 

[TechnoVampire]

I’ve been watching AOS coach and Vince Venturella’s review videos of the new book, which are interesting, but both report finding Kastelai to be a poor sub faction choice compared to the others. I find myself agreeing with the majority of the points they make, but it makes me sad that it no longer seems considered to be particularly good. 

Edited April 27, 2023 by TechnoVampire

[El Syf]

1 hour ago, TechnoVampire said:

I’ve been watching AOS coach and Vince Venturella’s review videos of the new book, which are interesting, but both report finding Kastelai to be a poor sub faction choice compared to the others. I find myself agreeing with the majority of the points they make, but it makes me sad that it no longer seems considered to be particularly good. 

Well I guess that’s true but if the dice gods are with you and you play super aggressive I think Kastelai are still good. Vhordrai still slaps possibly harder than in the last book.

It’s a fun sub faction.

[MotherGoose]

10 hours ago, El Syf said:

Well I guess that’s true but if the dice gods are with you and you play super aggressive I think Kastelai are still good. Vhordrai still slaps possibly harder than in the last book.

It’s a fun sub faction.

Yea I think unless you play super competitively they'll still be fun and good

[TechnoVampire]

Has anyone else considered Vengorian lords value in Kastelai? His attack profile has had a significant improvement and he’s the only multiple attack unit who’s attacks all benefit from the Kastelai buffs (as far as I can tell). If you make him your general and give him undead bladelord he can quickly ‘level up’ and with both offensive buffs his attack profile is pretty scary:

5, 3+ 3+ -1 3 damage

4, 3+ 2+ -2 4 damage 

D6+1 4+ 4+ -1 2 damage.

 

With all out attack and the +1 to wound rolls monstrous rampage his main attacks are 2’s to hit and wound. 

Add flaming weapon and his second attack is hitting for damage 5. 
 

If you also give him the fragment of the keep artefact then he’s giving anything within 3” reduced rend by one and -1 to wound rolls.

 

Worth considering?

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

3 hours ago, TechnoVampire said:

Has anyone else considered Vengorian lords value in Kastelai? His attack profile has had a significant improvement and he’s the only multiple attack unit who’s attacks all benefit from the Kastelai buffs (as far as I can tell). If you make him your general and give him undead bladelord he can quickly ‘level up’ and with both offensive buffs his attack profile is pretty scary:

5, 3+ 3+ -1 3 damage

4, 3+ 2+ -2 4 damage 

D6+1 4+ 4+ -1 2 damage.

 

With all out attack and the +1 to wound rolls monstrous rampage his main attacks are 2’s to hit and wound. 

Add flaming weapon and his second attack is hitting for damage 5. 
 

If you also give him the fragment of the keep artefact then he’s giving anything within 3” reduced rend by one and -1 to wound rolls.

 

Worth considering?

I think that makes a lot of sense. Blood Knights, Vhordrai and VLoZD are the archetpyal Kastelai stuff, but honestly anything Vampire keyworded gains synergy. It's probably not enough to save Vargheists, for example, but I think the Vengorian Lord if a great pivot. Similar thinking to adding the warcry guys to the roster.

[N.I.B.]

Noob question. I played my first AoS game last week, forgot a lot of rules, Skeletal Legion among them. There seems to be no cap on this ability (that awkwardly happens at the start of the combat phase), so you can continue to roll for slain models even if the whole unit is killed? There's nothing in the wording that specifies the unit must have at least one model left, but I guess you could argue then there's no unit to return models to.

Edited April 27, 2023 by N.I.B.

[JackStreicher]

23 minutes ago, N.I.B. said:

Noob question. I played my first AoS game last week, forgot a lot of rules, Skeletal Legion among them. There seems to be no cap on this ability (that awkwardly happens at the start of the combat phase), so you can continue to roll for slain models even if the whole unit is killed? There's nothing in the wording that specifies the unit must have at least one model left, but I guess you could argue then there's no unit to return models to.

Your last point is the important one: Rules on Warscrolls etc. only work if there’s an actual unit (left)

[Calum Todd]

16 hours ago, TechnoVampire said:

Has anyone else considered Vengorian lords value in Kastelai? His attack profile has had a significant improvement and he’s the only multiple attack unit who’s attacks all benefit from the Kastelai buffs (as far as I can tell). If you make him your general and give him undead bladelord he can quickly ‘level up’ and with both offensive buffs his attack profile is pretty scary:

I run the Vengorian Lord as my general in my Kastelai list.; I use the Swift and Deadly command trait instead for the re-roll charges bubble. The list also naturally has Vhordrai in it so I can pass around the buffs where they're needed rather than just going on the general (which is usually what you want, but not always). 

Only had the 2 games with the new book but I've been much more succesful with it than the previous one with Kastelai.

[TechnoVampire]

12 minutes ago, Calum Todd said:

I run the Vengorian Lord as my general in my Kastelai list.; I use the Swift and Deadly command trait instead for the re-roll charges bubble. The list also naturally has Vhordrai in it so I can pass around the buffs where they're needed rather than just going on the general (which is usually what you want, but not always). 

Only had the 2 games with the new book but I've been much more succesful with it than the previous one with Kastelai.

I’m really glad to hear that! Vhordria is an auto include in my Kastelai lists now. The decision is always whether to also include a VLOZD as general or not. My thinking seems similar to yours that Vengorian lord is a cheaper alternative with potentially more output. Glad it’s been working out. If you have a list you’d like to share I’d be interested. Here’s what I was considering: 

 

Army Faction: Soulblight Gravelords
    - Army Type: Kastelai
    - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line

LEADER

1 x Prince Vhordrai (470)
    - Spells: Vile Transference

1 x Vengorian Lord (280)
    - General
    - Command Traits: Undead Bladelord
    - Artefacts: Fragment of the Keep
    - Spells: Flaming Weapon

BATTLELINE

5 x Blood Knights (230)
    - Kastellan
    - Standard Bearer
    - Templar Lance

5 x Blood Knights (230)
    - Kastellan
    - Standard Bearer
    - Templar Lance

5 x Blood Knights (230)
    - Kastellan
    - Standard Bearer
    - Templar Lance

OTHER

20 x Grave Guard (280)
    - Seneschal
    - Standard Bearer
    - Hornblower
    - Great Wight Blade

20 x Grave Guard (280)
    - Seneschal
    - Standard Bearer
    - Hornblower
    - Great Wight Blade

TOTAL POINTS: (2000/2000)

(Apologies I don’t seem able to hide content when using my iPhone, to reduce post lengths) 

[Calum Todd]

 

Spoiler

  - Army Type: Kastelai

  - Grand Strategy: Lust for Domination

LEADERS

Vengorian Lord (280)*

  - General

  - Command Traits: Swift and Deadly

  - Artefacts of Power: Fragment of the Keep

  - Spells: Flaming Weapon

Vampire Lord (130)*

  - Artefacts of Power: The Red Casket

  - Spells: Spirit Gale

  - Aspects of the Champion: Tunnel Master

Necromancer (90)*

  - Spells: Waste Away

Prince Vhordrai (470)**

  - Spells: Soulpike

 

BATTLELINE

20x Deathrattle Skeletons (170)*

10x Deathrattle Skeletons (85)*

Blood Knights (230)**

  - Kastellan

  - Templar Lance

Blood Knights (230)**

  - Kastellan

  - Templar Blade

Blood Knights (230)**

  - Kastellan

  - Templar Blade

 

OTHER

Fell Bats (85)**

 

CORE BATTALIONS

*Warlord

**Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: 2000/2000

 

This is the list I've been using - slightly limited by what models I currently have. The Necromancer feels out of place as he's rather slow compared to the rest of the army but the spells are just too good to pass up on. The Vampire Lord on foot is mostly there to make the blob of skeletons somewhat of a threat but to also be able to teleport to an objective and take it from a small unit or kill a lone mage or something with the +3 to charge (possibly re-rolling).

 

I feel for Kastelai taking Vhordrai, a Vengorian and 3 Blood Knights is mandatory. You could maybe make a case for Askurgan Trueblades instead and I'll certainly be checking that out when they're properly available.

 

Your list looks like it packs a very mean punch! I'd like to use Grave Guard but finding space for them is difficult, and I'd like for them to have the newer style models.

 

Edited April 28, 2023 by Calum Todd

[Grimoriano]

Hi everyone, I have a question about deathly invocation. The gravesites adds 1 to the models returned, so, what happends if I have 2 gravesites near, can I stack them and add 2 extra models? 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

3 minutes ago, Grimoriano said:

Hi everyone, I have a question about deathly invocation. The gravesites adds 1 to the models returned, so, what happends if I have 2 gravesites near, can I stack them and add 2 extra models? 

The bonus does not stack because of how the rule is worded.

[N.I.B.]

Question about Torgillius 5+ ward save aura, shouldn't it stack with the Ulfenkarni Phylactery to a 4+ ward save?