Hedonites of Slaanesh Discussion

[Overread]

Welcome mortals to the new thread for Hedonite discussion! New book, new thread and all! Enjoy and share in the excess of newness! 


Previous thread:
 

And the one before that 

 

[Cambyses]

Had my first game over the weekend with the new book, and I am very happy with the power & flavor in general. Some takeaways/thoughts in no particular order:

 

- Going first is generally advantageous with this army, since it will give you the opportunity to hit the first tier of Depravity right away. An alpha strike with the Masque, Slickblades, Seekers, or even Daemonettes, plus aggressively offering Temptation dice in the shooting phase, should get you to 12 no problem.

- Archers of both types are very strong, especially when coupled a Lord of Pain. If you use your CP to auto-run the LoP you should be able to trigger his buff aura on top of 1 and get all your archers to 2+/3+ with that stupidly big bubble. Alternatively, if you're pretenders, the triple All Out Attack is nearly as effective.

    -As a corollary to this, your opponent will be looking to kill your LoP ASAP. Screen him well. Luckily he's quite tough for a foot hero and the mortal wound bounce-back is a nice little trick as well.

- The additional CP generation and triple command from Pretenders is very good - I consistently floated CP each turn just due to the efficiency. The corollary is that you lose a lot when you lose your General. Luckily in my game (vs. Ironjawz), there wasn't a good way for my opponent to pick out my general at range, but it's something to watch out for. A Keeper was my general this game and the extra damage output from Strength of Godhood was very good to have, but it may be worth considering a Mirror or Shardspeaker instead if you're looking to preserve the CP train till late game.

- Fiends are strong! They are one of my favourite units aesthetically speaking and I am glad they feel good to field again. A -2 to hit to cancel out all-out and -1 to wound means that they stick around longer than their stats would suggest, and the change to flat d3 on their claws means they do a shocking amount of damage. Run in units of 3 for disruption and flank control.

 

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

Trying to cook up a 1000 point list for a few games. How does this sound....

 

Shardspeaker                           125

  Spell: Phantasmagoria

  Artefact: Crown of Dark Secrets

  Trait: Strength of Godhood

Blissbarb Archers                      150

Hellstriders with Claw-Spears   150

Seekers                                      140

Myrmidesh Painbringers           145

Symbaresh Twinsouls ( x 2)        280

                                                   990

 

I'm got a sneaking suspicion that the Shardspeaker might be a bit flimsy to have as my only hero.... but I'm a sucker for having lots of models on the table. 

[Selpharia]

I think the Lord of Pain will be more durability and value than the Shardspeaker, and you have the points spare

[Enoby]

7 hours ago, Big Kim Woof-Woof said:

Trying to cook up a 1000 point list for a few games. How does this sound....

 

Shardspeaker                           125

  Spell: Phantasmagoria

  Artefact: Crown of Dark Secrets

  Trait: Strength of Godhood

Blissbarb Archers                      150

Hellstriders with Claw-Spears   150

Seekers                                      140

Myrmidesh Painbringers           145

Symbaresh Twinsouls ( x 2)        280

                                                   990

 

I'm got a sneaking suspicion that the Shardspeaker might be a bit flimsy to have as my only hero.... but I'm a sucker for having lots of models on the table. 

I definitely agree with @Selpharia that the Lord of Pain is the better hero in this situation - especially when kept near the Blissbarbs to give them 2s/3s. I'd recommend using the Shardspeaker in higher points games - I think she's more auxiliary than core for us.

[Lucentia]

I feel the game is more designed for 2k games, so I only really play at 1k when there's an odd number of players, so my 1k lists tend to be more just messing around with unusual options.  But for a more general 1k list I'd probably try something like this?

 - Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh
     - Army Type: Pretenders
     - Grand Strategy: Take What’s Theirs
     - Triumph: Indomitable
LEADERS
Lord of Pain (135)*
     - General
     - Command Traits: Strength of Godhood
     - Aspects of the Champion:  Fuelled by Ghurish Rage
Contorted Epitome (190)*
     - Artefacts of Power: The Crown of Dark Secrets
     - Spells: Phantasmagoria
BATTLELINE
Blissbarb Archers (150)*
Myrmidesh Painbringers (290)*
OTHER
Slickblade Seekers (200)*
ENDLESS SPELLS & INVOCATIONS
1 x The Burning Head (30)
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: 995/1000
 

Burning Head is just to fill in the points, you could leave it out if the triumph is more valuable to you.  The Slickblade slot could also potentially be swapped for Blissbarb Seekers, or Fiends, or whatever your personal preference might happen to be.

[Big Kim Woof-Woof]

Righto. I better go and finish off painting up my Lord of Pain, I guess! Not an arduous task.... he's been an absolute joy to paint thus far. Lovely model. Thanks for the guidance, all! 

[Unit1126PLL]

What are people's thoughts on securing the safety of a KoS, if you wanted one as a Pretender's general?

If the answer is *don't* then fine, them's the answer lol.

[Magnus The Blue]

1 minute ago, Unit1126PLL said:

What are people's thoughts on securing the safety of a KoS, if you wanted one as a Pretender's general?

If the answer is *don't* then fine, them's the answer lol.

I think a combination of Agis, Mystic shield, screening and providing plenty of other threats will do the job most of the time.  

That said Pretenders general is sooo important, I'm tempted to just make Glutos my general.  Sure you lose a command trait but he is just so dam hard to kill.

[Enoby]

1 minute ago, Unit1126PLL said:

What are people's thoughts on securing the safety of a KoS, if you wanted one as a Pretender's general?

If the answer is *don't* then fine, them's the answer lol.

I'm currently mid game vs Sylvaneth and my Keeper has taken a beating but still lived. They're Invaders but that hasn't changed their survivability at all. 

I have been lucky, but between 16 wounds, mystic shield, a 5+ ward, and heroic healing they've been able to stick around. 

[Unit1126PLL]

My problem with the Aegis is the lack of healing - or is throwing her into combat less good? You can't heal in combat if I recall correctly. Only other option is life swarm

[Enoby]

2 minutes ago, Unit1126PLL said:

My problem with the Aegis is the lack of healing - or is throwing her into combat less good? You can't heal in combat if I recall correctly. Only other option is life swarm

You're correct that you can't heal in combat, but my plan is to kill things before the next hero phase the heroic heal is usually better for getting rid of chip damage before they get into combat rather than in the midst of it. 

They probably will die, but they should last a couple of turns. As @Magnus The Blue said, Glutos is also a good choice for Pretenders general as he's tough to take down.

[zombiepiratexxx]

LoP behind some Painbringer screens makes for, on paper, a pretty survivable general so you can still bring the Keeper, yes you'd not be able to Strength of Godhood your Greater Daemon but there are plenty of other buffs going around and if you take a Lord of Hubris that makes any combat with him and the Keeper in it a great positive for you. 

[Unit1126PLL]

So the main answer is "don't".

 

So far I haven't been having a problem with chip damage - it's the super alphas from things that blow her up.

Adding the 5++ has seen such alphas either continue to blow her up, or will leave her with just a few wounds left... And then no healing, so she just gets got next go.

[Enoby]

Happy to say my book has finally arrived! 

Also, upon reading it, I just realised how good Girdle of the Realm Racer is. Normally artefacts are a bit meh so I don't put a huge amount of thought into them when list building, but a Keeper of Secrets with that is actually capable of making a first turn pile in - and not just that, but as it's an artifact they don't even need to be your general, so you have a good amount of freedom there for other picks. Coupled with Progeny of Damnation, they can't easily run away. 

Not only that, but the spell lore in Godseekers is fantastic. Slothful Stupor basically turns off a melee unit. 

The more I read this book the more I like it - there's no auto-win list that's been formulated, everything's exciting and makes you think about a huge variety of different lists. 

[Lucentia]

50 minutes ago, Unit1126PLL said:

So the main answer is "don't".

 

So far I haven't been having a problem with chip damage - it's the super alphas from things that blow her up.

Adding the 5++ has seen such alphas either continue to blow her up, or will leave her with just a few wounds left... And then no healing, so she just gets got next go.

I think that's right, if aiming for a properly competitive list I'm probably leaving the Keeper at home, sadly, I think the warscroll is a bit of a miss.  The most enticing aspects are the mini-depravity dice and the once-per-game double activation, (and Roar, of course) which is not necessarily a great spot for a 400pt unit to be in, in my opinion.  The melee output remains relatively low, and it's not a hugely difficult target to remove for any army with serious threat projection, even with the nice, new ward save.  The improved weapon options are fun, and I'd like to run one with the whip as an additional source of -1 attack that can be positioned around as needed, but then its durability issue is only highlighted more without the shield or hand.

So, for a more causal list, sure, you can build one up that's quite fun to run around with via artefact/command trait investment, but for strictly competitive stuff, maybe bring one for summoning, but you probably don't even need to do that, imo.

[Enoby]

I'm hoping to try this list soon, after finishing the Sylvaneth game.

 - Army Faction: Hedonites of Slaanesh

  - Army Type: Godseekers

  - Grand Strategy: Glutton for Depravity

LEADERS

Lord of Pain (135)*

Keeper of Secrets (400)*

  - Shining Aegis

  - Artefacts of Power: Girdle of the Realm-racer

  - Spells: Progeny of Damnation

Bladebringer, Herald on Exalted Chariot (260)**

  - General

  - Command Traits: Speed-chaser

  - Spells: Paths of the Dark Prince

Shardspeaker of Slaanesh (125)**

  - Spells: Slothful Stupor

BATTLELINE

Blissbarb Archers (150)*

Seekers (140)*

Seekers (140)**

OTHER

Fiends (200)*

Fiends (200)*

Slickblade Seekers (200)**

TERRAIN

1 x Fane of Slaanesh (0)

CORE BATTALIONS

*Battle Regiment

**Battle Regiment

TOTAL POINTS: 1950/2000

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

[Unit1126PLL]

Well, disappointing that a Keeper general is so bad, but maybe I can shift from Pretenders to Godseekers or Invaders, hmm.

[Jaskier]

1 hour ago, Unit1126PLL said:

Well, disappointing that a Keeper general is so bad, but maybe I can shift from Pretenders to Godseekers or Invaders, hmm.

In all honesty if you play against the Sharpshooters battalion it's going to be a better general than any of our small heroes, and in Pretenders specifically I'd argue running a Keeper that's not your general is a waste. If you want to run a Keeper that isn't the general, the other two subfactions do it better, but even in those it's still ideal to maximise them with the available traits.

It's going to fall over to Ironblasters and 6-9 Raptors but that's life. I'm of the opinion Keepers aren't worth it unless you're giving them one of the potent mixes of traits and artifacts we can give them, and if you do put those on them you can get a high return on the investment for sure. Outside of that, it's a great summon if you're just swimming in Depravity or know it will pay for itself with the double pile-in for another unit. 

For reference, 16w 4+ 5++ is in many cases tougher than a Maw-Krusha once you factor save-stacking in.

Edited March 28, 2023 by Jaskier

[Cambyses]

3 hours ago, Unit1126PLL said:

Well, disappointing that a Keeper general is so bad, but maybe I can shift from Pretenders to Godseekers or Invaders, hmm.

 

I don't think it's bad, but maybe just not efficient enough for a truly cut-throat competitive list. It has 16w with a 5+ Ward and -1 to be hit both ranged and melee, and it can mystic shield itself and heal via heroic action, which is honestly pretty damned good by any standard. And ofc the damage output is great with Strength of Godhood.

 

The only issue is that a lot of a lot of efficiencies with Pretenders relies on you keeping that one model alive, and your opponent knows this. If you run into a meta shooting list and roll bad or get doubled, your opponent will have a good chance of taking it down early, which will set you back a lot more than just a 400pt melee dude.

[Unit1126PLL]

So... No real tips and tricks other than "don't", really, though you may be able to squeak by against an opponent who doesn't know your faction or has an unoptimized list. 

 

Fair enough. Anyone have any idea when the Soulfeaster will be updated? I want to use it, but at the same time, it's both really bad (14 wounds, the old Temptation), and hilariously good (12 DP summon). Ironically, it is by far the best summon, but the worst to start a list with.

[Jaskier]

7 hours ago, Unit1126PLL said:

So... No real tips and tricks other than "don't", really, though you may be able to squeak by against an opponent who doesn't know your faction or has an unoptimized list. 

That's not what I'm saying though. Not every army has strong shooting, and the Keeper is tough enough that it might not be worth it for them to shoot it over a different target, i.e. the Blissbarbs that are shredding them. In fact I'd argue most armies would have a hard time dealing with it easily without engaging it. 

Further, into melee-centric armies, a Keeper general in any of the three subfactions is not going to be pleasant for them to engage; a Crown-bearer or strike-last aura wielder with access to Phantasmagoria that hits like a truck or, a multi-command trait stacked Keeper that can nuke attacks through a spell, and; a 6" piling Keeper that can act as a nasty pinning piece. It will also win you games if you setup a good double pile-in for a big Euphoric Killers boost. 

I'm positing that it's not an auto include unless you have a good plan for it and to be aware that, like anything else, it's going to have some bad matchups.

[Sonnenspeer]

Had my first game with the new book. Destiny Dice did nothing, as Sylvaneth just refused the dice and heal the chip damage. Probably better vs other fractions.
But euphoric killers was so good. The Slickblade Seekers did 20 depravity points in one turn. 10 in the next.
Speaking of Slickblades, they where my most valuable unit in the game. Slaangors just died and I think a second unit of Slickbaldes would be better. Or do you think Slaangors fullfill a role I just jet do not see?

[Jaskier]

The Sylvaneth matchup seems to be a tough one from what many others are saying, so no surprise there. Slicks do feel like the best bet as them and the daemon Seekers are so quick that the Sylvaneth can't hide from them all the time. Slower, more fragile units like Slaangors definitely feel rough into any shooting army, so against Sylvaneth in particular I'd agree with more Slicks or Seekers and so on for sure. Slaangors will excel into, like, Slaves to Darkness and Sons of Behemat, armies that in most of their lists won't really pressure the beasties early on. 

[Wordy9th]

Hi new thread, have some twinsouls and painbringers! It’s such a beautiful army to paint but boy I feel like it’ll never hit the table at the rate I’m going.