The "mortals redesign" Discussion

[RyantheFett]

Looking at how they went with older weapon design makes me wonder if they try and double dip and let players use the units in The Old World.

Cities becomes the down to earth option for people who want that in Age of Sigmar, and at the same time those units can be used with humans, dwarfs, and elves in their Old World counterparts?

Edited September 20, 2022 by RyantheFett

[CommissarRotke]

Curious to see how they'd make that work if they do want to double dip these kits... upgrade sprue maybe? Or the AOS humans, aelves, and duardin being pure elites for TOW

[RyantheFett]

1 hour ago, CommissarRotke said:

Curious to see how they'd make that work if they do want to double dip these kits... upgrade sprue maybe? Or the AOS humans, aelves, and duardin being pure elites for TOW

Maybe with what they did with Horus Heresy compared to 40k? A lot of models are close in appearance between the two games with the big difference being the rules. Could see an attempt by GW to do the same with AOS and The Old World.

Of course we have no idea what is going on with TOW and this was just to guess on why they would go with older/grounded look we have seen so far. Makes me also wonder what the human stuff will look like in TOW?

[CommissarRotke]

1 minute ago, RyantheFett said:

Maybe with what they did with Horus Heresy compared to 40k? A lot of models are close in appearance between the two games with the big difference being the rules. Could see an attempt by GW to do the same with AOS and The Old World.

Of course we have no idea what is going on with TOW and this was just to guess on why they would go with older/grounded look we have seen so far. Makes me also wonder what the human stuff will look like in TOW?

I honestly expect it to be the same moulds as before, or at least an updated STL of the older files; i.e the puffy Empire soldiers

[Baron Klatz]

Well remember back in 2020 the AoS studio said they were in the dark about the project as much as we are so cross-compatibility may be coincidental at best.

Two other factors are:

1.the old Empires actually might skip primitive gunpowder weapons because of dwarves. In novels set around that time like “Runefang” the dawi are using advanced cannons that shoot chain-shot while the divided empire has crossbows & catapults.

That a steamtank appears in the Great War of Chaos would speak that they’re already in a musket age even then if exceedingly rare still.

(I could imagine they go this route, telling people they can’t use their old musket armies  anymore and they’re selling either hand-cannons or repeaters would cause much teeth-gnashing)

 

2. The clothing aesthetics could be way off like it was for the Lumineth despite the concepts.

The weapons are primitive but people have pointed out the large gloves on the cannons invoke the 17-18th century, like the Hexbane Hunter-

and the gauntlets aren’t medieval gothic but closer to segmented Reiter stuff of the 1600’s. 

If it’s 40k “advanced but old school” or Empire+Bret like Belakor’s legion then the mish-mash of styles might be too much from what they actually have planned for the distant past if that’s more early Renaissance.

Really just too early to tell anything but with Order I lean towards Lumineth in how they want to redo things.

 

speaking of the Witch Hunter though I noticed through fan-works and their own lore they’re quite magical in aesthetics now.

(Tell me a bright color Jelsen doesn’t look like a gun mage)

And goes down to their rune weapons they inscribe themselves, Aqshy-wood stakes that explode, magic blood flasks Jelsen uses to empower himself in-lore and whatever the Hexbanes can unleash that make them temporarily Wizard:

Makes me wonder how far customizable Sub-factions can be if for say you could put Witch Hunters under Arcane Collegiate to empower their magic weapons to hunt down daemons & Endless Spells as Arcane Spell Hunters while Battlemages under Ironweld could become the mage-engineers in the recent lore with tacked on abilities to heal war machines and defenses?

[Draznak]

1 hour ago, Baron Klatz said:

Really just too early to tell anything but with Order I lean towards Lumineth in how they want to redo things.

It reminds me when our Great Seer Whitefang made precisely this parallel :

Quote

imaging high elves compared to lumineth but this time WFB empire to new COS.

 

Edited September 20, 2022 by Draznak

[Baron Klatz]

Honestly this is meeting the hallmarks of that exact launch.

> Grounded battleline concept stuff gets shown off (Freeguild battle-axes & pike-cannon renders/old Asur spearman & light cavalry art)

> Old fantasy fans start saying it must be for compatibility and to quote one redditor “maybe Age of Sigmar is finally moving away from golems and crazy high fantasy nonsense.” (Cue Lumineth living armor golem hero shown immediately afterwards + battle cattle and the salt mines burst like geysers) 

> first releases are a bit over-the-top but not completely crazy and some old schooler copium starts drifting it can still be exactly like it was before.

> then comes in the cow aelves/ CoS robot horse/spider/lizard cavalry/ whatever 40k-level daemon cyborg madness the Chaos Duardin will eventually bring in.

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[Dukeus]

I am honestly glad that the bitz they showed so far are not to advanced.

Old Empire has a 15 - 16 century HRE asthetic. The new Cities Artwork indicates a more steampunk 17 - 19 century nation. Go some years further and you get the Deathkorp of Krieg, which are basically just world war 1 Germans with laser guns.

I have no doubt we get really cool advanced Steampunk stuff with the new release and i look forward to it. But i also want down to earth simple human soldiers with sword and shield. I think it fits perfectly. Our 19 century had skyscrapers, Air ships and machine guns on one side while the life in a little european village was still like in the middle ages. And the realms are way bigger and different than our world so both makes perfectly sense. 

 

 

[Baron Klatz]

That’s a fair point.

That was a thing I loved about the 2018 War of the Sky Portals art.

On one side you got golden immortal demigods on dragons bringing in a flying laser fortress facing Chaos world-Enders & apocalypse bringers opening corrupted dimension-gates while in the corner these medieval freeguilders are holding the line with just sword & board(and bodies to spare which makes me thankful for the good guy demigods keeping casualties down instead of a pure grimdark meat grinder)

Plus a medieval element with armored sword troops is always helpful to the unending flood of Berserk, Kratos, Dark Souls & Elden Ring fans coming into the hobby and Mortal Realms infinite possibilities.

 

[Whitefang]

8 hours ago, Dukeus said:

I have no doubt we get really cool advanced Steampunk stuff with the new release

hoho, one can dream！

[Chikout]

I for one thought the Lumineth mix of the old and the new was pretty great. I'm hoping for a similar mix this time around. Whitefang seems to be suggesting that we won't get a cogfort, which I always imagined to be pretty huge anyway, but maybe some AoS wackiness as part of the release. I am VERY curious to see what form that takes. 

[Baron Klatz]

Sentry-Keeps & Border-Walkers(canon small cogforts) would be likelier.

A full Cogfort would be the battlefield itself.(not that I’m against that, GW. Cogfort terrain so we’re battling on the deck and fighting to control the batteries, control consoles & shield generators as harsh winds blow the troops around from the moving castle would be excellent!)

But yeah you can make a over-burdened grocery list from what the new Freeguild can bring to the table.

just from the top of my head is:

Insect cavalry & plant-lion riding wood knights from Ghyran, solar-powered robots from Hysh, magic repeater rifles & anti-ghost shield black-cloaked Shyishian, burly Ghurian tribesmen using monster bone weapons and explosive fruit grenades, Chamon gold-tattoo’d nomads in flowing steel robes with metal-eating Ibuq lizard cavalry, Azyr flying star-boats that fish creatures from the aether and Storm-powered electric golems, etc.

They can literally go in any direction. 
 

Though I expect they’ll double down on the generic troops and mages so it’s easier to build towards those things than outright skew the release towards one direction(spacey Azyrians would mean primal Ghurian fans are out of luck). So like enough new mounted units going from normal to bizarre so if you want Hammerhalian Ghyran Shellriders you can kitbash with the Sylvaneth bug riders and have enough fitting rules & traits to fit them into.

[CDM]

Insect cavalry & plant-lion riding wood knights from Ghyran, solar-powered robots from Hysh, magic repeater rifles & anti-ghost shield black-cloaked Shyishian, burly Ghurian tribesmen using monster bone weapons and explosive fruit grenades, Chamon gold-tattoo’d nomads in flowing steel robes with metal-eating Ibuq lizard cavalry, Azyr flying star-boats that fish creatures from the aether and Storm-powered electric golems, etc.

Ive been holding out for realm based humans for some time. There has been loads of great ideas out there on the fiction for a while. I was thinking that Warcry 2.0 would introduce this but alas more chaos ( although I love all the warbands!)

I was listing to 2+ on YouTube today and he gave some great ideas for the battletome representing the lore and how that makes a good faction and had some good things to say about various levels of settlement with the Big cities having access to more and the smaller villages having less of the elite stuff but being more speedy on the rules.

Looking at the map of Grimreach from the reap sow soulbound pdf I could see it having not much but the basics. But what about more primal followers that were already there? Maybe some of the warcry warbands have found new meaning in their beliefs and now follow Sigmars light! (The less obvious chaos ones that is) Could use these cultures as another element for defence of your fledgling town backed up by the more basic troops from the cities.

 

Edited September 21, 2022 by CDM

[xking]

On 9/20/2022 at 7:37 PM, Baron Klatz said:

Honestly this is meeting the hallmarks of that exact launch.

> Grounded battleline concept stuff gets shown off (Freeguild battle-axes & pike-cannon renders/old Asur spearman & light cavalry art)

> Old fantasy fans start saying it must be for compatibility and to quote one redditor “maybe Age of Sigmar is finally moving away from golems and crazy high fantasy nonsense.” (Cue Lumineth living armor golem hero shown immediately afterwards + battle cattle and the salt mines burst like geysers) 

> first releases are a bit over-the-top but not completely crazy and some old schooler copium starts drifting it can still be exactly like it was before.

> then comes in the cow aelves/ CoS robot horse/spider/lizard cavalry/ whatever 40k-level daemon cyborg madness the Chaos Duardin will eventually bring in.

 

Whitefang liked post, you must be close to the truth

[Baron Klatz]

Haha, well he did note some possible similarities a while back.

More, he did like someone’s suggestion that they’ll update CoS in segments like first Freeguild soldiers, then Ironweld update a few years later and so forth.

So that might be the other comparison.

Lumineth temples of Mountain, Wind, River, Zenith.

Cities of Sigmar organizations of Freeguild, Ironweld, Order of Azyr, Arcane Collegiate.

[xking]

9 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

Haha, well he did note some possible similarities a while back.

More, he did like someone’s suggestion that they’ll update CoS in segments like first Freeguild soldiers, then Ironweld update a few years later and so forth.

So that might be the other comparison.

Lumineth temples of Mountain, Wind, River, Zenith.

Cities of Sigmar organizations of Freeguild, Ironweld, Order of Azyr, Arcane Collegiate.

I hope they add back in the Swifthawk Agents, Order Draconis and the Eldritch Council. Maybe redo them.

[Pariah7echo]

1 hour ago, xking said:

I hope they add back in the Swifthawk Agents, Order Draconis and the Eldritch Council. Maybe redo them.

These are all more likely to show up in Lumineth than Cities at this point. heck weren't the swordmasters part of the Eldritch Council anyway? I'm honestly a little surprised the flying chariots weren't part of the Wind temple. They'd make more sense there than they ever did in High elves.

[Baron Klatz]

I suspect the Sky Chariot 2.0(probably kept afloat without animals or it’ll have strange spirits pulling it) for the Zenith/Sky temple. Would match the known lore so far of that Temple having cloud spirits that can teleport back up to the sky and disciples that can turn ethereal and float away. So an all flying army and aelfy spirit version of Kharadron.

Swifthawks though I can see being emphasized in CoS again. They recently were acknowledged again in Kragnos novel by delivering papers to the Freeguild forces with their aelven eagle emblem stamped on the papers.

With the Dawncrusade frontiers a “Pony Express” mail delivery agency would be more important than ever in delivering news and orders between settlements and informing the major city councils what happened to them by fleet horse & eagle travel.

Could wind up the new CoS+ light cavalry or just be a narrative force in the tome you can build around.

Actually now I wonder if that’s why we’ve been seeing so many 17-18th century big cavalier gloves popping up if they’re planning for the Freeguild to lean in to more modern cavalry and delivery service aesthetics for their humans & aelves. 🤔

[xking]

1 hour ago, Pariah7echo said:

These are all more likely to show up in Lumineth than Cities at this point. heck weren't the swordmasters part of the Eldritch Council anyway? I'm honestly a little surprised the flying chariots weren't part of the Wind temple. They'd make more sense there than they ever did in High elves.

Luminenth have nothing to do with those organizations

[CommissarRotke]

8 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

With the Dawncrusade frontiers a “Pony Express” mail delivery agency would be more important than ever in delivering news and orders between settlements and informing the major city councils what happened to them by fleet horse & eagle travel.

A sentient eagle "pony" express would be amazing 😩

[Asbestress]

First look at new Freeguild Guard/Underworlds Warband?

[Baron Klatz]

Haha, just got there and already down to a 4-man band.  

Feels 50/50 for a possible warband.

On one hand Nethermaze loved using art to tease new warbands but we just got our CoS UW Warband with the 4 Witch Hunters so this is too soon.

I think this is just to show the Freeguild activity there, the Thondia tome had Freeguilder art of them getting attacked by monsters and the new Warcry map in the Gnarlwoods set carries that theme with both art and showing how many camps and a city(likely the place where Fyreslayers sell their services as guides through the forests given the name) are near the woods.

 

So I think it’s still just placeholder art until the Freeguild reboot way down the line.(doesn’t help their weapons don’t look anything like the concept renders)

I’m also interested in those “bird” creatures at the top left, either they’re more monster fauna or their green nature could point to the Sylvaneth protecting their fellow trees.

On another note getting more validation on the Order of Azyr looking like mage warriors with bright paint schemes.(plus their magic weapons and knowing how to make runes in the lore/warscrolls)

 

Edited September 26, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[Fulcanelli]

Well, looks like we won't say goodbye to Empire feathers just yet.

[Baron Klatz]

Interesting they’re continuing the Hexbane trend of Kharadron-lite clothes. I’m guessing if they herald anything it could be how centuries of Kharadron trade has influenced the cities development and fashion.

Also I don’t think that’s a peasant cap on the bottom. The sides look reinforced like a WW2 leather helmet plane & tank pilots wore.

Which would fit the Kharadron influence, at the Broken Realms siege of Vindicarum one of the forces they unleashed on the daemon hordes were aircraft-carrier sky-vessels that launched sorties of Bi-planes to dogfight & dive bomb them.

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

7 hours ago, Baron Klatz said:

Interesting they’re continuing the Hexbane trend of Kharadron-lite clothes. I’m guessing if they herald anything it could be how centuries of Kharadron trade has influenced the cities development and fashion.

Also I don’t think that’s a peasant cap on the bottom. The sides look reinforced like a WW2 leather helmet plane & tank pilots wore.

Which would fit the Kharadron influence, at the Broken Realms siege of Vindicarum one of the forces they unleashed on the daemon hordes were aircraft-carrier sky-vessels that launched sorties of Bi-planes to dogfight & dive bomb them.

 

I actually think the guys in that image look very much like classic army Empire guys. I have definitely painted that leather cap you identified as a pilot hat a few times. It is found a lot in the Ironweld kits and the little non-battlemage helper guys from the Hurricanum wear them, too.

Anyway, I like this depiction of the Freeguild in a wilderness scenario. As much as I hope the puffy sleeves and big hats stay in some capacity, they would probably get in the way when exploring the turbo-jungles of Ghur.

 

EDIT: Some "pilot hats" from current kits.

 

Edited September 27, 2022 by Neil Arthur Hotep