The "mortals redesign" Discussion

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

19 minutes ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

In some way, Empire elements are still kept in the Cities. They're just more subtle than putting floppy hats and puffy sleeves on everyone. The heavily armored cavaliers, the cult of the wheel, the sniper musket on top of the ogor... That's steel, faith and gunpowder right here. 

Definitely! It's not like the new models are completely removed from the established lore. Quite the opposite, actually: They communicate the fluff that has been written on the Freeguild a lot better than the old models. And they are still very obviously something like the organized military of a Sigmarite state. If the old world were not so restrictive in its fluff, you could definitely imagine them existing somewhere in the frontier regions of the Empire.

8 minutes ago, Beliman said:

Completely agree. They have a more grimdark tone with the AoS weridness that makes rhem split appart from other "fantasy human faction".

Maybe I will try to build a 2k point list and paint them as ankh morpork city watch

Better 3D-print them shoes with soles thin enough to feel the cobbles in that case

But I agree, it's actually amazing that GW somehow managed to straddle the line and make them both more grimdark as well as more weird and whacky at the same time.

[CommissarRotke]

I don't think the old Empire troops were ever grimdark tbqh. Their art? Sure. Their stories? Very obviously so. But the models themselves always felt too Renaissance/European to me to be called grimdark. It was incidental because they existed in Warhammer. These models though? Freeguild have clearly been through THE SUCK* and are responding accordingly.

 

 

*In a military context, “the suck” refers to any undesirable conditions, painful experiences, or difficult situations faced by service members. This can include everything from unpleasant duty tasks to traumatic war events. Terms such as “the suck” are considered warrior slang.

[CommissarRotke]

@Asbestress you mentioned this in the rumor thread: I've also been thinking about the "Castelite formation" thing and rather than a keyword, it's probably a battalion??

Possibly a Fusil-Major, 2 units of handgunners, and 1 skirmish screen or artillery maybe?

Or Fusil, 2x handgunners, 2x melee infantry

[The Lost Sigmarite]

7 minutes ago, CommissarRotke said:

@Asbestress you mentioned this in the rumor thread: I've also been thinking about the "Castelite formation" thing and rather than a keyword, it's probably a battalion??

Possibly a Fusil-Major, 2 units of handgunners, and 1 skirmish screen or artillery maybe?

Or Fusil, 2x handgunners, 2x melee infantry

Maybe the Castelite formation is the spiritual successor of the Empire detachments, who were themselves inspired by the pike and shot formations of the 16th-17th century (such as the Spanish tercio). Maybe you get bonuses when you use your units in a combied arms manner, like your ranged units dish out the damage while your melee ones screen them from scary melee threats. 

[CommissarRotke]

1 minute ago, The Lost Sigmarite said:

Maybe the Castelite formation is the spiritual successor of the Empire detachments, who were themselves inspired by the pike and shot formations of the 16th-17th century (such as the Spanish tercio). Maybe you get bonuses when you use your units in a combied arms manner, like your ranged units dish out the damage while your melee ones screen them from scary melee threats. 

Whitefang did allude to Cities taking some mechanics from Imperial Guard 👀 folding a new take on detachments into AOS would definitely give Cities a unique rules twist.

[EccentricCircle]

In the context of the sentence it almost sounds as though "Castelite" is a word for people from Greywater fastness. 

The city doesn't really have an existing demonym, and making one the usual way is a bit clunky in that case  A fastness is a type of castle so I reckon that's what it means.

[Whitefang]

On 6/20/2023 at 9:09 PM, CommissarRotke said:

@Asbestress you mentioned this in the rumor thread: I've also been thinking about the "Castelite formation" thing and rather than a keyword, it's probably a battalion??

Military reformation to explain why new freeguilds changed so much from thier previous incarnation.

[Asbestress]

1 hour ago, Whitefang said:

Military reformation to explain why new freeguilds changed so much from thier previous incarnation.

Wasn't expecting an actual lore explanation for the change in structure/naming and visuals (although AoS writers have been generally pretty good at actually making these things coherent so far).

I wonder if this is more of a "Kragnos really riled up those Destruction gitz and now our troops are dying even more often than before!" or more of a "Yeah those puffy uniforms just weren't doing it even back then in the Realmgate Wars, thank Sigmar we have an actually competent reformer here" change?

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

On 5/24/2023 at 7:47 PM, Neil Arthur Hotep said:

I am already preparing myself to add an explanation that there was an organisational reform that changed uniforms and command structure, but is still in progress to my headcanon. Need to justify where all the feathered hats, puffy sleeves and codpieces went.

 

22 hours ago, Whitefang said:

Military reformation to explain why new freeguilds changed so much from thier previous incarnation.

Would you look at that.

Makes me glad that the writers chose to make the model refresh an in-universe change, though. They could easily have retconned it instead.

[SunStorm]

This might be a silly question, but will the Witch Hunter stuff be included in the new Cites/Dawnbringer books/lore?

Galen and Doralia ven Denst, Hexbane's Hunters and Jelsen Darrock

I was thinking of starting with some of those to get practice in painting humans again ahead of the main release. 

 

[Snarff]

5 minutes ago, SunStorm said:

This might be a silly question, but will the Witch Hunter stuff be included in the new Cites/Dawnbringer books/lore?

Galen and Doralia ven Denst, Hexbane's Hunters and Jelsen Darrock

I was thinking of starting with some of those to get practice in painting humans again ahead of the main release. 

 

Most likely they will be. Galen and Dorelia have novels, and are even referenced in one very recent novel, and underworlds warbands always have rules in an AoS army. Even the Kurnothi warband is part of Sylvaneth.

[RyantheFett]

5 hours ago, SunStorm said:

This might be a silly question, but will the Witch Hunter stuff be included in the new Cites/Dawnbringer books/lore?

Galen and Doralia ven Denst, Hexbane's Hunters and Jelsen Darrock

I was thinking of starting with some of those to get practice in painting humans again ahead of the main release. 

 

The Denst and the Cursed City units have been mentioned in one of the early Cities of Sigmar articles. If you are looking for a sign that they will be carried over that one is pretty decent.

[Asbestress]

On 6/23/2023 at 4:33 PM, RyantheFett said:

The Denst and the Cursed City units have been mentioned in one of the early Cities of Sigmar articles. If you are looking for a sign that they will be carried over that one is pretty decent.

While I agree that the recent Witch Hunters will probably 100% be staying, using "appearance in articles" as evidence for that is pretty iffy imho, considering they also mentioned Steam Tanks in the religious iconography one.

I am being purely objective right now and am in no way trying to not get my hopes up that Steam Tanks may stay in the Battletome/ in production, thus souring my opinion of the refresh when it finally releases mid-August to late-September.

[RyantheFett]

20 hours ago, Asbestress said:

While I agree that the recent Witch Hunters will probably 100% be staying, using "appearance in articles" as evidence for that is pretty iffy imho, considering they also mentioned Steam Tanks in the religious iconography one.

I am being purely objective right now and am in no way trying to not get my hopes up that Steam Tanks may stay in the Battletome/ in production, thus souring my opinion of the refresh when it finally releases mid-August to late-September.

I felt that my comment implied more false hope, but I could of emphasized how flimsy it was more lol. Would not put it passed GW to name drop two different units in one of the very first articles for the faction and just forget about them.

Personally I would say everything in Cities will be cut sooner or later and get sent back to The Old World. Will be fun to see if Age of Sigmar gets their own version of Tau now!

[Asbestress]

1 minute ago, RyantheFett said:

I felt that my comment implied more false hope, but I could of emphasized how flimsy it was more lol. Would not put it passed GW to name drop two different units in one of the very first articles for the faction and just forget about them.

Personally I would say everything in Cities will be cut sooner or later and get sent back to The Old World. Will be fun to see if Age of Sigmar gets their own version of Tau now!

Everything getting cut wouldn't be so bad if we were to get replacements 😛

And regarding the recent Witch Hunters, I fully believe they were designed with the refresh in mind/as part of it. Apart from that, everything's fair game imho to be gone.

[CommissarRotke]

21 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

Will be fun to see if Age of Sigmar gets their own version of Tau now!

if Cities includes both aelf and duardin models, COS is already ahead of Tau 🤪 40k does absolutely nothing with Tau auxilia or allies...

[RyantheFett]

3 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

if Cities includes both aelf and duardin models, COS is already ahead of Tau 🤪 40k does absolutely nothing with Tau auxilia or allies...

Ok so maybe Aelf, duardin, and ogers vs kroot and vespids.................................. ****** your right. How the hell does Tau not have human models yet?!?!?!

I love how insanely low GW set the bar and I still don't believe that they will do it lol.

[CommissarRotke]

I would not at all be surprised if Tau allies got put on an eternal backburner because some sections of the 40k fandom thought Tau were "too good" for the setting... which does not really leave room for even inter-xenos alliances.

Here's hoping Kroot at least get something new after Leviathan launches and all the awesome Cities stuff we're about to see.

[EntMan]

2 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

Ok so maybe Aelf, duardin, and ogers vs kroot and vespids.................................. ****** your right. How the hell does Tau not have human models yet?!?!?!

I love how insanely low GW set the bar and I still don't believe that they will do it lol.

Are there rules for humans in Tau? I'd assumed you could use Imp Guard models and that that's why there weren't Tau specific human models. 

And based on lore there should also be rules for Kin/Demiurg allies in Tau armies.

Edited June 26, 2023 by EntMan

[novakai]

22 minutes ago, EntMan said:

Are there rules for humans in Tau? I'd assumed you could use Imp Guard models and that that's why there weren't Tau specific human models. 

And based on lore there should also be rules for Kin/Demiurg allies in Tau armies.

There no rules for them, it just stuff in there lore really.

most of the auxiliary units have been overshadow in favor of the tau mech suit 

[RyantheFett]

So it should be fun to see if they loop back around and do the same thing to Cities. Last time I checked the current rumors was all the wood and high elves were gone right? Should be interesting to see if they slowly remove other or not.

As for kroot at least it looks like we will be getting another model soon lol.

[Asbestress]

I know the chances of the Steam Tank staying are pretty low, but would you consider:

I really hope the Steam Tank:
A: Just stays
B: Gets updated (new kit/upgrade frame)

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

10 hours ago, Asbestress said:

I know the chances of the Steam Tank staying are pretty low, but would you consider:

I really hope the Steam Tank:
A: Just stays
B: Gets updated (new kit/upgrade frame)

Would be pretty ironic if both the Steam Tank and Wanderers are gone in the new tome, given that this is the current description of the Cities of Sigmar on the webstore.

Personally, I also hope the Steam Tank stays. It's definitely one of the iconic Warhammer models and it doesn't really have many super Empire-specific bits on it, beyond the old feathered hat on the commander. I kind of don't know why GW would remove the kit, to be honest. Unless they are preparing to replace it in the near future or expand on the idea of steam machines in a different way.

[Segersgia]

The Steam Tank I believe is gonna stay, even as a unit for The Old World.

Wasn't it speculated that it might get redesigned in a second wave for the CoS

 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

13 minutes ago, Segersgia said:

The Steam Tank I believe is gonna stay, even as a unit for The Old World.

Wasn't it speculated that it might get redesigned in a second wave for the CoS

Probably all of the old Empire range will stay for The Old World. Not sure if the Steam Tank already exists at the point in time TOW is set, thought.

The last concrete thing with regard to the Steam Tank we got was the @Whitefang info that Ironweld stuff will not be in the new book. That seems pretty decisive and Whitefang has so far never been wrong.

I don't know, personally. I would have definitely expected the Hurricanum to go before the Steam Tank. I hope it sticks around and Whitefang was just talking about the artillery kits when they said "Ironweld gone".