The "mortals redesign" Discussion

[Draznak]

2 hours ago, CommissarRotke said:

That was my first thought too--no way the lone Order tome isn't Cities refresh

I really hope you're right.

For now, I can't imagine that it could be the case (I'm probably too hopeful, imagining a release with a lot of kits... so it would take time especially just before 40k 10th edition) .

[Baron Klatz]

Yeah, personally I’m weighing on it being the Seraphon refresh instead with all those magi-tech staff & jungle flora pictures floating around in Rumor Engines.

What better time for Starlight dinos that have space battles and later the orbital altitude science-fantasy Kharadron to get some tasty big updates than when 40k is getting it’s big moment to shine in a burning galaxy?  
 

So I’m expecting CoS to be 2024 with the new edition/Realm Rules.

[CommissarRotke]

1 minute ago, Baron Klatz said:

Yeah, personally I’m weighing on it being the Seraphon refresh instead with all those magi-tech staff & jungle flora pictures floating around in Rumor Engines.

What better time for Starlight dinos that have space battles and later the orbital altitude science-fantasy Kharadron to get some tasty big updates than when 40k is getting it’s big moment to shine in a burning galaxy?  
 

So I’m expecting CoS to be 2024 with the new edition/Realm Rules.

Either one would be fine tbh, though I hope it's not too much Lizard stuff or i won't have room ;_;

[Asbestress]

Based on the new rumours, these are my predictions for the current units.
Key:
Green: High chance of staying
Blue: High chance of staying + new kit
Orange: Unsure (probably should have put some more Darkling and Order Draconis units here and the Cogsmith)
Red: High chance of getting removed

I really hope my dear Steam Tanks will stay. Apart from the whole "mortals in this wacky high fantasy place!" part, that unit did the most to convince me to start with CoS. At least my Freeguild and Disposessed stuff might stay in.

[Baron Klatz]

I like the detail how the red line just crossed them out instead of underlining them.  

i won’t be surprised if the tech stuff and Cogsmith go(as he now lacks artillery) if this wave is to replace humans & religious units with new Dawner soldiers out on the rugged frontiers holding down the settlements backed up by all the aelven warriors and monsters to fit Ghur’s theme.

the tech might have to come back in follow-up waves. Could be cool if it’s treated like a game of Civilization with primitive settlers first, steampunk and tech advancement next and finally Wizard and magi-tech supremacy for late stage free city metropolises.

 

[Asbestress]

12 minutes ago, Baron Klatz said:

I like the detail how the red line just crossed them out instead of underlining them.  

i won’t be surprised if the tech stuff and Cogsmith go(as he now lacks artillery) if this wave is to replace humans & religious units with new Dawner soldiers out on the rugged frontiers holding down the settlements backed up by all the aelven warriors and monsters to fit Ghur’s theme.

the tech might have to come back in follow-up waves. Could be cool if it’s treated like a game of Civilization with primitive settlers first, steampunk and tech advancement next and finally Wizard and magi-tech supremacy for late stage free city metropolises.

 

Starting out with just more basic units (with maybe something more impressive as a centerpiece release) is how I was thinking they'd do it too. Fits with the theme I guess. Although I wonder what the timespan between the first and second waves will be (if we get a second). Could be Lumineth with just a few months, could be a few editions.

[Chikout]

4 hours ago, Asbestress said:

Based on the new rumours, these are my predictions for the current units.
Key:
Green: High chance of staying
Blue: High chance of staying + new kit
Orange: Unsure (probably should have put some more Darkling and Order Draconis units here and the Cogsmith)
Red: High chance of getting removed

I really hope my dear Steam Tanks will stay. Apart from the whole "mortals in this wacky high fantasy place!" part, that unit did the most to convince me to start with CoS. At least my Freeguild and Disposessed stuff might stay in.

That’s an interesting list but pretty pessimistic when it comes to new kits. I’m expecting a demigryph knights equivalent, especially as the recently revealed armour looks to be from a mounted knight. I’m also expecting a general equivalent, at least one warmachine and a new griffon equivalent. That would be 11 kits, the same as the Leagues of Votann release and three fewer kits than the Gloomspite got last time around. 

[Asbestress]

Quick update

12 hours ago, Chikout said:

That’s an interesting list but pretty pessimistic when it comes to new kits. I’m expecting a demigryph knights equivalent, especially as the recently revealed armour looks to be from a mounted knight. I’m also expecting a general equivalent, at least one warmachine and a new griffon equivalent. That would be 11 kits, the same as the Leagues of Votann release and three fewer kits than the Gloomspite got last time around. 

Yeah, just wasn't really sure what to add. Also, the underlining for the Executioners and Freeguild General was accidentally swapped. I wouldn't be surprised if we don't get a generic Witch Hunter kit, but then again, what is stopping GW from releasing more of them?
The big centerpiece could either be "Hammerhal? Named Character on Griffon/with Katakros diorama", or maybe a new warmachine. Or something entirely different 😛 

As for the armour pic

Spoiler

I think that the torso could be for a new knight unit (with the arm on the torso being a "guide" for the shield, letting it slot into position easier), and the right bit of armour is a "groin flap" for it maybe, but I think the lone boot is for the new Greatsword equivalent because it doesn't have a stirrup (the slot for a leg on a saddle), and as I think the bits they are showing have all already been cut up and made into sprues (and are nicely sitting in Army Boxes in a warehouse in Nottingham with manufactured unit cards, dice, and Battletome), I don't think they'll be adding one to it.

 

Spoiler

Also, I think these are definitely horse armour, because the Sigmar bit on the right one

 

Spoiler

Is the same as the one on the bottom left here, so it's a bit big to be a shoulder pad (expect if we are getting some City Ogors, which I highly doubt)

Edited December 5, 2022 by Asbestress
Context for boot not being for knights

[Baron Klatz]

7 hours ago, Asbestress said:

Is the same as the one on the bottom left here, so it's a bit big to be a shoulder pad (expect if we are getting some City Ogors, which I highly doubt)

Would be funny if that was the super armor light enough for a human to wear despite being made of fused metal, stone & bones Brinnock is working on. Size isn’t a problem anymore.  

But nah that is a really good catch. 👍

If it is for a horse and not something stranger(like the Lumineth hybrids) then we’re in a for a big size increase when you compare that to the old knight barding with the riders nearly the horse’s size.

Looks like whatever the Freeguild rides might be on par with the Blood knight Nightmares.

 

[CommissarRotke]

7 hours ago, Asbestress said:

I think that the torso could be for a new knight unit

I know GW teases can be pretty opaque but there is no way that teaser is not a new knight kit!! I think the only debate is what creature said knight will be lancing from

[EccentricCircle]

I would be surprised if we get new witch hunters, because the current kit, while marketed as specific characters, actually has a lot of variety in it. You can mix and match options to build quite a few different witch hunters, and while its not on the levels of the battlemage kit and its ilk, or the stuff frostgrave gets, it is more than good enough for them to tick that one off the to do list.

[Baron Klatz]

I could see them doing it just because witch hunters are so iconic looking. Some people were joking about them being the new Primaris Lieutenants they can get so many random releases and it could happen. 
 

Trademarked look, fit the Age of Sigmar theme as his top agents in the realms and can double as 40k conversions.

 

(which themselves can double-back as Order of Azyr leaders in the Realm of Metal)

[RyantheFett]

On 12/4/2022 at 12:10 PM, Asbestress said:

Based on the new rumours, these are my predictions for the current units.
Key:
Green: High chance of staying
Blue: High chance of staying + new kit
Orange: Unsure (probably should have put some more Darkling and Order Draconis units here and the Cogsmith)
Red: High chance of getting removed

I really hope my dear Steam Tanks will stay. Apart from the whole "mortals in this wacky high fantasy place!" part, that unit did the most to convince me to start with CoS. At least my Freeguild and Disposessed stuff might stay in.

Pretty good list. Only two things I personally would change/warn about:

1. The Freeguild stuff should be in the high chance of getting removed. Every leak we got so far has been pretty clear on that. Of course common consensus is that almost everything will be easy to kitbash or just proxy. So your freeguild stuff should still be fine.
2. My personal theory is that a lot of the dark elf stuff will be cut. Guy said a big part they were safe was the Start Collecting boxes. That covers the pirates, but not sure about the Order Serpenits or Coven. I think it would be strange if they decided to keep so many while gutting the other races?

 

[Whitefang]

On 12/5/2022 at 11:38 AM, Asbestress said:

which I highly doubt

oops

[Baron Klatz]

That’d be hilariously epic if Asbestress was both right & wrong.

> Those aren’t pauldrons but horse barding.

>….is what they were anyway before all the horses died on the desolate realmscapes, so now the city Ogors wear them as pauldrons.

 

I’m guessing that is why the axe concept is noticeably larger hands than the other weapons and placed higher.

 

Interested how they can be implemented. Armored Ogor units to mirror StD’s new Ogroid units or will it be closer than that with Ogor unit champions in human/aelf regiments that get an extra Wound and Damage? (Hoping mixed unit shenanigans to really show off the Freeguilds but expectations are set reasonably)

 

Also anyone else hoping we get an Aegis Line as our Faction Terrain?

Just instead it could be golden metal walls, Ironweld barricades or even floating bits of metalith barriers chained down to the ground to represent the crusades setting up defenses on their settlements?

Edited December 8, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[CommissarRotke]

On 12/8/2022 at 4:22 AM, Whitefang said:

oops

I love that you can say one word and send us all into shambles...

[Skreech Verminking]

On 12/6/2022 at 12:57 AM, RyantheFett said:

Pretty good list. Only two things I personally would change/warn about:

1. The Freeguild stuff should be in the high chance of getting removed. Every leak we got so far has been pretty clear on that. Of course common consensus is that almost everything will be easy to kitbash or just proxy. So your freeguild stuff should still be fine.
2. My personal theory is that a lot of the dark elf stuff will be cut. Guy said a big part they were safe was the Start Collecting boxes. That covers the pirates, but not sure about the Order Serpenits or Coven. I think it would be strange if they decided to keep so many while gutting the other races?

 

I’m not sure that they really want to gut so many old world factions, especially those not getting new models, when the old world seem to be coming…. Apparently soon??

let’s say at some point

[Baron Klatz]

42 minutes ago, Skreech Verminking said:

I’m not sure that they really want to gut so many old world factions, especially those not getting new models, when the old world seem to be coming…. Apparently soon??

let’s say at some point

I mean the more old stuff the AoS studio drops off the more stuff the Forge World side that’s in charge of the specialist project can either:

A: make brand new models of with a new price tag to match.

B: bring back repackaged in a new box in the far future with a updated price tag to cash in on the nostalgia and absence.

People have had access to these old models for well over a decade now and they already got their AoS time to shine with a book bringing them together as Total War interest hitting a Zenith. They basically maxed out how much hype money they can get out of them. So it makes sense to replace them and get newer shiny models on the table for that new $$$ smell.

Also the game can still be way off, even the devs interview in 2020 said 2025 was possible.

Edited December 9, 2022 by Baron Klatz

[RyantheFett]

On 12/9/2022 at 3:33 PM, Skreech Verminking said:

I’m not sure that they really want to gut so many old world factions, especially those not getting new models, when the old world seem to be coming…. Apparently soon??

let’s say at some point

I have been convinced by the Sigmar community that Cities was never a real faction and that GW was keeping it part of the game until they released Old World and/or the human faction they really wanted. Will be paranoid about this until I see those warscrolls lol.

The leaks from both people have overall been a mixed bag. Seems like Cities will remain the muti race faction with at least some Dwarfs, Elves, and Ogres so that is great! On the other hand, the non human units being trash and the hint that the Start Collecting boxes saved most of them is sort of ominous....

[Asbestress]

 

18 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

I have been convinced by the Sigmar community that Cities was never a real faction and that GW was keeping it part of the game until they released Old World and/or the human faction they really wanted. Will be paranoid about this until I see those warscrolls lol.

The leaks from both people have overall been a mixed bag. Seems like Cities will remain the muti race faction with at least some Dwarfs, Elves, and Ogres so that is great! On the other hand, the non human units being trash and the hint that the Start Collecting boxes saved most of them is sort of ominous....

I feel they knew what they wanted to do with what would become CoS pre-2019. Give all the Battletome-less factions books in one swoop, and setup a place for the new "Imperial Guard" to the Stormcasts' 'Space Marines' (I'm really glad SC have really moved away from just being fantasy SM both in lore, and more recently in models).

Regardless of what they are planning for Old World, units were going to be trashed no matter what happened, as imo there was a bit too much repetition (especially with the 4-5 flavours of basic infantry), and getting rid of Wanderers, and probably a fair amount of Order Serpentis, Darklings and Privateers, while not the best move in regards of respecting existing collections, had to be done at some point.

Whetever CoS will stay cosmopolitan depends on what we'll see in the upcoming release(s), although the rumour of City Ogors makes me think we won't be seeing a duardin/aelf-less CoS in the future.

Also, basing what remains on Start Collecting boxes probably serves to make people who started CoS with the first Battletome more likely to have armies that don't get invalidated, as they are more likely to have bought them.

[RyantheFett]

7 hours ago, Asbestress said:

 

I feel they knew what they wanted to do with what would become CoS pre-2019. Give all the Battletome-less factions books in one swoop, and setup a place for the new "Imperial Guard" to the Stormcasts' 'Space Marines' (I'm really glad SC have really moved away from just being fantasy SM both in lore, and more recently in models).

Regardless of what they are planning for Old World, units were going to be trashed no matter what happened, as imo there was a bit too much repetition (especially with the 4-5 flavours of basic infantry), and getting rid of Wanderers, and probably a fair amount of Order Serpentis, Darklings and Privateers, while not the best move in regards of respecting existing collections, had to be done at some point.

Whetever CoS will stay cosmopolitan depends on what we'll see in the upcoming release(s), although the rumour of City Ogors makes me think we won't be seeing a duardin/aelf-less CoS in the future.

Also, basing what remains on Start Collecting boxes probably serves to make people who started CoS with the first Battletome more likely to have armies that don't get invalidated, as they are more likely to have bought them.

I recently bought Cities and the repetition across the faction was close to a joke. Would be glad if they gave the races stronger identities and less redundant units. Figure can just use the units they remove as proxies anyway?

But ya I agree that the fear of Cities losing the other races is now over......................... now the non human races being trash that nobody uses is a new question apparently lol.

Personally think Darlings will take a massive hit. The Start Collecting for pirates comes with all the pirate units and half of the Order Serpentis. Figure at that point just keep the raptor riders and dragon.

Edited December 12, 2022 by RyantheFett

[RyantheFett]

So with the updated rumors we got a clearer picture of what is staying and what is going:

Being cut:

• Wanderer- 6 units
• Shadow Warriors
• Darkling Coven basic Infantry- 3 units
• All Freeguild- 9 units
• Pirates and Order Serpentis Chariots- 2 units
• Helblaster Volley Gun & Helstorm Rocket Battery- 2 units
• Collegiate Arcane- 6 units

Staying:

• Most of Ironweld Arsenal- 5 units
• Assassin and Dark Riders combined with around half of Darling Coven- 6 units
• Dispossessed- 6 units
• Phoneix Temple- 6 units
• Remaining Order Serpenits combined with remaining Pirates- 6 units

So wow them combining and cutting gave us 4 non human races with 6 units in each.

Also very proxy/kit bash friendly with only the Chariots and Mage Cart being the units I don't see having a good replacement?

[Asbestress]

32 minutes ago, RyantheFett said:

So with the updated rumors we got a clearer picture of what is staying and what is going:

Being cut:

• Wanderer- 6 units
• Shadow Warriors
• Darkling Coven basic Infantry- 3 units
• All Freeguild- 9 units
• Pirates and Order Serpentis Chariots- 2 units
• Helblaster Volley Gun & Helstorm Rocket Battery- 2 units
• Collegiate Arcane- 6 units

Staying:

• Most of Ironweld Arsenal- 5 units
• Assassin and Dark Riders combined with around half of Darling Coven- 6 units
• Dispossessed- 6 units
• Phoneix Temple- 6 units
• Remaining Order Serpenits combined with remaining Pirates- 6 units

So wow them combining and cutting gave us 4 non human races with 6 units in each.

Also very proxy/kit bash friendly with only the Chariots and Mage Cart being the units I don't see having a good replacement?

I'm honestly expecting a bit more Dark Elf stuff to be cut, and no matter how much I love the Steam Tank, I still roll around in bed, sleepless at night, fearing it's inevitable retirement...

[zilberfrid]

14 hours ago, RyantheFett said:

So with the updated rumors we got a clearer picture of what is staying and what is going:

Being cut:

• Wanderer- 6 units
• Shadow Warriors
• Darkling Coven basic Infantry- 3 units
• All Freeguild- 9 units
• Pirates and Order Serpentis Chariots- 2 units
• Helblaster Volley Gun & Helstorm Rocket Battery- 2 units
• Collegiate Arcane- 6 units

Staying:

• Most of Ironweld Arsenal- 5 units
• Assassin and Dark Riders combined with around half of Darling Coven- 6 units
• Dispossessed- 6 units
• Phoneix Temple- 6 units
• Remaining Order Serpenits combined with remaining Pirates- 6 units

So wow them combining and cutting gave us 4 non human races with 6 units in each.

Also very proxy/kit bash friendly with only the Chariots and Mage Cart being the units I don't see having a good replacement?

Wanderers feel weird to me, the Sisters of the Thorn are sold in stores.

EDIT before posting, they have gone to webstore only. That's too bad, they are good looking models.

[Pariah7echo]

So I wanted to see the probable new unit list written out so I could figure out which units of my army would go where. Figured others might want to see it completed as well. I didn't include any of the unique characters/units. Assuming the list is right this could actually be a fairly tight roster with limited unit overlap. Hopefully they fix the keyword bingo in the process.

HEROES (current 19)

• Anointed
• Anointed on Flamespyre
• Anointed on Frostheart
• Assassin
• Azyrite General
• Azyrite General on Monster
• Azyrite Mage
• Azyrite Priest
• Black Ark Fleetmaster
• Cogsmith
• Dreadlord on Black Dragon
• Runelord
• Sorceress
• Sorceress on Black Dragon
• Steam Tank With Commander
• Warden King

BATTLELINE (Current 9)

• Azyrite Guard
• Azyrite Gunners
• Ironbreakers
• Longbeards

ARTILERY (Current 2. Unsure on walker location)

• Azyrite Artilery
• Azyrite Walker

BEHEMOTH (Current 7)

• Flamespyre
• Frostheart
• Kharibdyss
• Steam Tank
• War Hydra

OTHER (Current 22)

• Azyrite Knights/Outriders
• Azyrite Elite
• Azyrite Ogors
• Black Ark Corsairs
• Black Guard
• Dark Riders
• Drakespawn Knights
• Executioners
• New Flagellants
• Gyrobomers
• Gyrocopters
• Hammerers
• Irondrakes
• Phoenix Guard