Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[Freejack02]

6 minutes ago, readercolin said:

Sure, there has been a Tzeentch army that has been good, but it is notable that it hasn't been the same army.

They have all been Disciples of Tzeentch, operating from the same battletomes with the same allegiance abilities/spells/keywords. It's the same army.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Freejack02

[readercolin]

19 minutes ago, Freejack02 said:

They have all been Disciples of Tzeentch, operating from the same battletomes with the same allegiance abilities/spells/keywords. It's the same army.

Ahh, well all the good Stormcast armies have 3 squads of liberators in them.  They are all the same army.  I don't know what you people are complaining about when they say that they are nerfing stormcast into the ground - you're using most of the same models, with the same allegiance abilities, spells, keywords.

Sarcasm in case anyone is dense enough to not see through that.  But that is effectively what you just said about Tzeentch.  If I keep the same book but have to go out and purchase 1500-2000 points for a new army because of meta/edition/FAQ changes, it is not the same army.

[Celestantpants]

25 minutes ago, readercolin said:

Ahh, well all the good Stormcast armies have 3 squads of liberators in them.  They are all the same army.  I don't know what you people are complaining about when they say that they are nerfing stormcast into the ground - you're using most of the same models, with the same allegiance abilities, spells, keywords.

Sarcasm in case anyone is dense enough to not see through that.  But that is effectively what you just said about Tzeentch.  If I keep the same book but have to go out and purchase 1500-2000 points for a new army because of meta/edition/FAQ changes, it is not the same army.

Please try to stay respectful to other posters.  Your tone here is not needed.  No one has been disrespectful to you, so please refrain from essentially calling other people here dense.  Being upset is one thing, but insulting other posters is quite another.

 

As to your point, what you are talking about is lists.  It's the same army, but different lists.  That is the vocab we use.  Just like your Stormcast example.  The army is Stormcast eternals.  Lists can all be different depending on the units, stormhosts, etc.

Edited December 9, 2021 by Celestantpants

[Freejack02]

1 hour ago, readercolin said:

Ahh, well all the good Stormcast armies have 3 squads of liberators in them.  They are all the same army.  I don't know what you people are complaining about when they say that they are nerfing stormcast into the ground - you're using most of the same models, with the same allegiance abilities, spells, keywords.

Sarcasm in case anyone is dense enough to not see through that.  But that is effectively what you just said about Tzeentch.  If I keep the same book but have to go out and purchase 1500-2000 points for a new army because of meta/edition/FAQ changes, it is not the same army.

I can see your point, but I think Tzeentch is a bad example - they rely so heavy on spells (both faction and universal) that it almost doesn't matter what their warscroll situation is... as long as it's a wizard, they can make use of it. Yes, horrors have always been a bit cancerous to deal with and Archaon + Destiny Dice has reared its head; but that backbone of that entire faction is a universal mechanic that everyone has access to - which lets them deal plenty of damage and summon more casters. Stormcast don't have that - we rely on independently strong warscrolls to keep us competitive; doubly so now that a lot of battalions and group synergies have been dismantled. TV is the real outlier there; but for the rest pretty much all the synergy we have is "Translocate them here" and "Stay close to Gardus". We aren't well-equipped to seeing our S tier get chopped down, there's not much to fall back on. 

[Tizianolol]

Guys do you know if ride the winds aetheric ability from arcanum on glyph charger count as retreat if I do it within 3 of enemy unit? Warscroll says "instead of normal move or retreat". Thx a lot!

[Dogmantra]

7 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys do you know if ride the winds aetheric ability from arcanum on glyph charger count as retreat if I do it within 3 of enemy unit? Warscroll says "instead of normal move or retreat". Thx a lot!

It's instead of a retreat, so you can do it when you would do a retreat, but it isn't a retreat.

[Tizianolol]

Wow thx this abikity is very good, i mean its not mannfred but still very strong in my opinion!!:)

[feadair]

23 hours ago, Celestantpants said:

The problem with your examples though, is the Stormcast tome was never the top of the meta.  It was never a terror that lasted for an extended time frame like many of your examples.  We had a few lists go 4-1 and then got nerfed.  We had units and abilities get nerfed incredibly quickly.  Stormcast quite literally went from a terrible army to a quite good army with our new Tome, but that lasted like a couple months and we were in no way tearing up the meta, to likely subpar again soon.  Again, all indications seem to be that we will quite quickly go back to being subpar again for another whole edition with only a scant few months of being legit good between two whole editions.

We have 5-0:ed at least 4 tournaments, including some of the largest ones. On that metric, we are roughly on the same level as Slaves, Daughters and Deepkin, but far below Seraphons and Sons. It is not the worst place to be, but obviously we do not know what the future will hold.

[Lengthster]

15 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

guys anyone know the base size of Stormdrake guards, krondys and the drake hero? thx a lot! 

 

15 hours ago, Siorra said:

All Stormdrakes are on 105mm, the 2 named big-boys are on 180mm. FYI, all bases sizes can be found under the "description" section of any mini on the Games Workshop website.

 

The big dragons are on 160mm. I hope you didn't order any 180mm bases.

[Beliman]

11 hours ago, Dogmantra said:

It's instead of a retreat, so you can do it when you would do a retreat, but it isn't a retreat.

There is a KO FAQ that maybe can change that:

Quote

Q: If I use the Fly High ability to disengage with a unit, can that unit still shoot or charge later in the same turn?

A: It can still shoot as per the Disengage ability but it cannot charge.

Not sure how it affects all other abilities with the same wording, but the answer is clear: KOs skyvessels can shoot after using High Fly (same description as Ride the Winds) because they have an ability that allows that.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Beliman
grammar

[Tizianolol]

so prob we cant charge after. thats pretty sad 

[PJetski]

15 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys do you know if ride the winds aetheric ability from arcanum on glyph charger count as retreat if I do it within 3 of enemy unit? Warscroll says "instead of normal move or retreat". Thx a lot!

It does not count as a retreat.

You use Ride the Winds instead of picking the unit to retreat or move.

[Tizianolol]

But if you read Fly hight animoty seems the same wording! And there is a faq about that

[NauticalSoup]

Sounds like it needs an FAQ.

[PJetski]

2 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

But if you read Fly hight animoty seems the same wording! And there is a faq about that

It is unnecessary text.

Replacing a units movement does not count as movement. Setting up a unit does not count as movement of any kind - this has always been the way the game has worked.

[Boar]

2 hours ago, Tizianolol said:

But if you read Fly hight animoty seems the same wording! And there is a faq about that

KO has additional rule tough regarding Skyvessels teleports ie. Disengage. This caused some confusion as it really wasn't working in 2.0. I guess with advent of 3.0 and somewhat different rules it triggered (again) questions to rules team (mine amogn them), and they decided to rule it that way. For KO, for specific interaction/restriction that is present on KO Skyvessels.

I would not, from this specific rule, try to reach conclusions regarding general rules, as once again there is part (Disengage) that is not present elsewhere.

Tough of course it would be nice if GW clarified all of this in unambiguous way. I certainly asked.

 

[Beliman]

2 hours ago, Boar said:

I would not, from this specific rule, try to reach conclusions regarding general rules, as once again there is part (Disengage) that is not present elsewhere.

I just want to point out that disengage is an ability that allows to shoot if the unit retreats.

I don't know what does it mean for other units, but KOs can shoot after High Fly (same description of Ride the Winds) beacause we have Disengage (and not because Fly High is instead of a retreat).

Edit: not sure if it helps, but we agreed to play with the same restrictions of a retreat move for all abilities that have "instead of retreat..." until a FAQ clarifies how it works.

Edited December 10, 2021 by Beliman

[Nozdormu]

18 hours ago, feadair said:

We have 5-0:ed at least 4 tournaments, including some of the largest ones. On that metric, we are roughly on the same level as Slaves, Daughters and Deepkin, but far below Seraphons and Sons. It is not the worst place to be, but obviously we do not know what the future will hold.

Stormcast position best shows how often it is selected for team tournaments. And it was only one SCE player on Six Nations.

What tournaments have stormcast won? I've only heard of those where Dracoth-spam and Knight-Judicator-spam won.

[feadair]

4 hours ago, Nozdormu said:

Stormcast position best shows how often it is selected for team tournaments. And it was only one SCE player on Six Nations.

What tournaments have stormcast won? I've only heard of those where Dracoth-spam and Knight-Judicator-spam won.

Victories in two-day 5 round tournaments with a decent number of players, as distinct from 5-0s, include at least Mancunian Carnage, Fantasia Fanatic XL, Warhammer World, London Open. Edit: And SoCal Open.

A notable 5-0 list that still did not end up winning the tournament was played in the very large General’s War GT.

You can find most of the lists in my post history.

Edited December 11, 2021 by feadair

[vinnyt]

 

 

Dragons seem super good

[stus67]

nothing like seeing the new nurgle book with ten times the rules the stormcast book has. looks like having "simple" and lighter battletomes is just exclusive to stormcast this edition while everybody else just gets better 2.0 books.

[PJetski]

50 minutes ago, stus67 said:

nothing like seeing the new nurgle book with ten times the rules the stormcast book has. looks like having "simple" and lighter battletomes is just exclusive to stormcast this edition while everybody else just gets better 2.0 books.

This has been my biggest concern with the Stormcast book since day 1. We have good warscrolls with terrible/boring allegiance abilities, so we live and die by our points. As more battletomes get released with interesting and powerful allegiance you can expect Stormcast to get relatively weaker and even less interesting...

I'm glad I have other armies

[Doko]

Yes glad i have 5 armys lol because if everyone get the regular 2.0 tome but buffed and stormcast end as the tome with 70% warscrolls habilitys deleted and every ca deleted seems stupid.

Im not speaking about powerlevel that being the first tome is 100% for sure gonna end as very weak due to powercreep,but where is the fun in play a tome as sc where each unit have one skill and we havent 0 ca to combo when i can play my vampires with many fun combos and scrolls with many fun skills

[Celestantpants]

35 minutes ago, PJetski said:

This has been my biggest concern with the Stormcast book since day 1. We have good warscrolls with terrible/boring allegiance abilities, so we live and die by our points. As more battletomes get released with interesting and powerful allegiance you can expect Stormcast to get relatively weaker and even less interesting...

I'm glad I have other armies

Yup.  This is what I have been saying.  Which is why I have been so annoyed with all of these constant nerfs coming so quickly.  We got our book kneecapped before any other tomes get released, and then when those tomes start to get released we see that they get a ton of rules that outclass us and look fun. 

It really does feel like stormcast just can't have nice things when we get hit so hard and then see what other armies get.  Especially when all we have is strong war scrolls that likely will get hit by points increases early into into the tomes life.

Like I said before: What are we left with when our only truly good units get hit by points nerfs?  A simplistic and boring army that is also weak.  Just like most of 2.0.  It sure is happening fast this time around isn't it?  I'm also glad I have another army to play.  Looks like I am going to be playing COS for most of 3.0.  Just like 2.0.  It's sad.

Hopefully though once the balance FAQ after the winter FAQ comes out we will get some point drops that help us.  That doesn't help with the boring and simplistic aspect of our army, but at least with point drops Stormcast won't also be bad on top of all that.  Maybe.  Who knows what crazy stuff other tomes will get as more get released.

Edited December 11, 2021 by Celestantpants

[feadair]

Stormdrakes and friends are 3-0 in Blackout after day 1, as played by Dan Bradshaw of Team England. Reporting and pics at https://twitter.com/CheekyBNOC. Round 4 today will be SCE v SCE.