Stormcast Eternals 3.0 - There is no "a" in Vindictors

[Dogmantra]

6 minutes ago, readercolin said:

I'm not sure that they would be playable even if they only cost 115 like liberators due to that, but they definitely aren't worth 30 points more than liberators.

I agree with a lot of what you said but I think this is too harsh on Sequitors. If they dropped to 115 points, I'd swap Liberators out for them in a heartbeat. Yes the 4+ base save hurts compared to the 3+ you get with the other two basic infantry battleline units, so they do fare worse against ranged attacks, but in the combat phase, that 5++ ward is very nice. Perhaps a little overcosted, but they are solid.

I would also add that personally I prefer Astreia Solbright over the generic LA on Drac to boost Evocators on Dracolines, just because they're so squishy that the ability to get an extra +1 to save is big. Ideally she can also drop a Mystic Shield on them, and get them to 3+ ignoring 2 rend which makes it less likely they melt into nothing after the first time they're hit.

[readercolin]

1 hour ago, Dogmantra said:

I agree with a lot of what you said but I think this is too harsh on Sequitors. If they dropped to 115 points, I'd swap Liberators out for them in a heartbeat. Yes the 4+ base save hurts compared to the 3+ you get with the other two basic infantry battleline units, so they do fare worse against ranged attacks, but in the combat phase, that 5++ ward is very nice. Perhaps a little overcosted, but they are solid.

I would also add that personally I prefer Astreia Solbright over the generic LA on Drac to boost Evocators on Dracolines, just because they're so squishy that the ability to get an extra +1 to save is big. Ideally she can also drop a Mystic Shield on them, and get them to 3+ ignoring 2 rend which makes it less likely they melt into nothing after the first time they're hit.

If liberators and sequitors cost the same points, I would probably run sequitors.  As it is though, in either case I'm going to be running minimum battleline because I'm saving points for the rest of my actual hammers.  Neither unit is all that impactful , though both can clear a cheap screening unit (eventually), but neither is worth reinforcing.  However, the problem is that there are also vindictors, and vindictors can actually get to a 2+, so if I have spare points to run them, I'll probably choose vindictors over either option, even if vindictors cost 10-15 points more.

As for Astrea over a generic Dracoline lord, I can't agree.  Yes, she can give 1 unit a free +1 to save in melee, but she has to be wholly within 12" AND she doesn't give the +1 attacks aura.  Locking you into hammers of sigmar is a bit whatever at this point, but I can't get behind running a 195 point model to buff a single 280 point unit.  Maybe if reinforced kitties were worth running, I could get behind that, but as it is I can't justify bringing that much support for a 3 man squad.  Either way though, the point is a bit moot until kitties are worth bringing in the first place.

[frenk_castle]

After couple of months worth of competitive data what is the verdict on Stormdrake Guard loadout? Spears or swords? Swords look better overall and it seems they get more takes in recent tournament lists. Spears were all the rage in the beginning and have 2'' range which can be good given how models are posed and how hard is to get a unit of four to be all close together to hit a single unit.

I have three boxes which two will become Knight-Draconis to have two of them modeled differently but I am still going back and forth on how to build the other four models.

[Thugmullet]

1 hour ago, frenk_castle said:

After couple of months worth of competitive data what is the verdict on Stormdrake Guard loadout? Spears or swords? Swords look better overall and it seems they get more takes in recent tournament lists. Spears were all the rage in the beginning and have 2'' range which can be good given how models are posed and how hard is to get a unit of four to be all close together to hit a single unit.

I have three boxes which two will become Knight-Draconis to have two of them modeled differently but I am still going back and forth on how to build the other four models.

Magnet them and have both.

I think expensive kits like that you need to get the most out of them.

[Baron Klatz]

On 3/4/2022 at 7:39 AM, CommissarRotke said:

has anyone seen Vindictor conversions for different weapons? I'm leaning towards buying the Thunderstrike Warcry box, and I'm considering if I could/should give the 5 in that box swords to count-as Liberators.

Late response but a guy on Reddit did a pretty good swap and these Vanquisher Vindicators with Vigilor swords for Liberator proxies are great! 👌(yeah not Vindictors but close enough)

 

 

[Erdemo86]

Hey Guys, im having an upcoming game against ironjaws this weekend. Do you have and tips for me? Hes playing 2 Maw krusha, 2 Warchanter and a bunch of gruntaz.

im gratefull for all advices you can give me. Im not experienced playing against them.

heres the list i plan to bring:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar (Scions of the Storm)
- Grand Strategy: 
- Triumphs: 

Leaders
Lord-Imperatant (175)
Knight-Draconis (300)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic  
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Scintillating Trail
- Spell: Celestial Blades

Battleline
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)
4 x Stormdrake Guard (680)
- Drakerider's Lance
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Vindictors (130)

Units
3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)
3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Holy Command: Unleash Thy Hatred

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 94

[Thugmullet]

On 3/31/2022 at 7:48 PM, Erdemo86 said:

Hey Guys, im having an upcoming game against ironjaws this weekend. Do you have and tips for me? Hes playing 2 Maw krusha, 2 Warchanter and a bunch of gruntaz.

im gratefull for all advices you can give me. Im not experienced playing against them.

heres the list i plan to bring:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar (Scions of the Storm)
- Grand Strategy: 
- Triumphs: 

Leaders
Lord-Imperatant (175)
Knight-Draconis (300)
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic  
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Scintillating Trail
- Spell: Celestial Blades

Battleline
2 x Dracothian Guard Fulminators (230)
4 x Stormdrake Guard (680)
- Drakerider's Lance
- Reinforced x 1
5 x Vindictors (130)

Units
3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)
3 x Annihilators with Meteoric Grandhammers (240)

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment
**Hunters of the Heartlands

Additional Enhancements
Holy Command: Unleash Thy Hatred

Total: 1995 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 94

Very new to SCE so I'm not much good for advice on your army composition... Though it looks fine to me. I do play against a double mawcrusher list a lot but. My opinion is that you really don't want Orrucks dictating the game pace and you really don't want the Orrucks deciding who gets double turns. 2 Mawcrushers on a double turn will just decimate if they set it up right. Iv been on that train a few times!!

So my advise is go 1 drop if you can. With two hero monsters the most they can do is 2...so you will be deciding who goes for the double.. Not them. There dangerous on the 1st turn as well as they are super fast but at least you will know  in advance and can screen for it knowing they can't double from it. I'm not suggesting that you should just give them the first turn, but this way you get the opurtunity to see the board set up before you choose. So you can decide if you can get through a first turn alpha ok or do anough in your first turn to risk them on a double.

Always strong. But even better against Orrucks. At the very least if they don't know who's going first they need to set up more tamely.

If losing your battalion for monsters bothers you (understandably)  then consider perhaps Astral Templers for this game.

Don't underestimate there speed and there ability to move, pile in and fight in the hero phase.

There an army that does so much more than there war scrolls indicate.

Good luck. Post how you went.

Edited April 2, 2022 by Thugmullet

[feadair]

A couple of 4-1 lists from Italy (58 players):

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Astral Templars (Scions of the Storm)
- Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
LEADERS
Knight-Draconis(300)*
- General
- Command Trait: Battle-lust
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts
Lord-Relictor(145)*
-Prayer: Translocation
UNITS
2x Stormdrake Guard (340)*
- Drakerider's Lance
2x Stormdrake Guard (340)*
- Drakerider's Lance
2x Stormdrake Guard (340)*
- Drakerider's Warblade
6 × Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)*
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS
Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Siqmar (Scions of the Storm)
• Mortal Realm: Ghur
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presence
Triumphs: Inspired
LEADERS
Lord-Relictor(145)*
- General
- Command Trait: High Priest
-Prayer: Translocation
Knight-Draconis(300)*
-Artefact: Arcane Tome
- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts
- Spell: Celestial Blades
UNITS
5x Vindictors (130)*
5 x Vindictors (130)*
5x Vindictors (130)*
6 × Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)*
4× Stormdrake Guard (680)*
- Drakerider's Warblade
CORE BATTALIONS
*Battle Regiment
ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS
Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley

Stormdrakes and Longstrikes clearly survived the balancing.

Edited April 3, 2022 by feadair

[feadair]

This list came second in a 32-player tournament in Sweden:

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar (Scions of the Storm)
- Mortal Reaim: Ghyran
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
• Triumphs:
LEADERS
Knight-Incantor(125)*
• Spelt: Thundershock
Knight-Judicator with Gryph-Hounds (205)*
Lord-Relictor(145)*
- General
- Command Trait: High Priest
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
* Prayer: Transiocation
UNITS
3x Aetherwings (65)**
3x Aetherwings (65)**
5x Judicators with Skybolt Bows (200)*
5x Liberators (115)**
- Heavens-wrought Weapon and Shield, 1x Grandweapons
5 × Vindictors (130)***
5x Vindictors (130)**
6x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)**
2x Stormdrake Guard (340)***
• Drakerider's Lance
CORE BATTALIONS
*Command Entourage - Magnificent
*Brotherhood Command
**Hunters of the Heartiands
ADDITIONAL ENHANCEMENTS
Holy Command: Call for Aid
Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley
 

[Trickflo]

Is there anbody who has a stardrake and kazari/khrondys who could tell me if it would be feasible to fit kazari/khrondys on a stardrake base? Thinking about adding a stardrake to my living city list but I don't really like the model so am thinking about a conversion I saw they were fairly close in height in a size comparison but its hard to see the relative footprint. Thanks

[NauticalSoup]

6 hours ago, Trickflo said:

Is there anbody who has a stardrake and kazari/khrondys who could tell me if it would be feasible to fit kazari/khrondys on a stardrake base? Thinking about adding a stardrake to my living city list but I don't really like the model so am thinking about a conversion I saw they were fairly close in height in a size comparison but its hard to see the relative footprint. Thanks

 

Looks ok to me

Edited April 5, 2022 by NauticalSoup

[Fuxxx]

I'm finally setting out to paint my Stormdrake - now, how to best use his Cavernous Jaws? I mean... I choose models before I hit them. The goal would basically be to destroy coherency, but then again the opponent can just take models I kill afterwards from the side that will be annihilated by that effect anyways if possible. Also it would be best for that to target a unit that already piled in onto you. Am I thinking too much about this? Is it just a bonus up to 3 models killed and I should just pick any since it won't make any difference?

[Marcvs]

5 minutes ago, Fuxxx said:

I'm finally setting out to paint my Stormdrake - now, how to best use his Cavernous Jaws? I mean... I choose models before I hit them. The goal would basically be to destroy coherency, but then again the opponent can just take models I kill afterwards from the side that will be annihilated by that effect anyways if possible. Also it would be best for that to target a unit that already piled in onto you. Am I thinking too much about this? Is it just a bonus up to 3 models killed and I should just pick any since it won't make any difference?

no you are right, breaking coherency (so hitting a unit that has just piled in) is one of the best uses of cavernous jaws. Also yes, it's before attacks so the enemy will remove models to regain coherency if you give them the chance. So, the ideal situation is to eat from a unit that has already piled in AND then attack a different unit. Bit of a rare scenario but it's potentially very impactful, also new coherency rules make it easier to achieve.

The other use is to eat unit leaders (and then standard bearers/musicians): this can also be very strong if there is no hero in range to use Inspiring presence and can catch the opponent off guard. Eating Lumineth champions is a bonus because you also take away their magical abilities (and the sentinels no-line-of-sight shooting)

[Dogmantra]

Yeah having run the stardrake a fair bit recently, I usually just ask my opponent if they have any special models in their unit and target those. Coherency is pretty difficult to break with Cavernous Jaws.

The other use is that it does have a 3" range, so if you can manage to sneak into 3" of an otherwise screened out 5 wound foot hero, it can be worth throwing one of your chomps onto them just for the chance of a lucky 6 getting you a kill.

[Mattrulesok]

What the others have said. It's purely situational what models you choose however when playing horde armies that use big blocks of chaff, especially when that chaff is tough (e.g. Mortek or plague bearers) it can be worth setting up a coherency break. Charge the stardrake and another unit into either end of a long string of models, use the non stardrake unit first and see if you can bait them into over committing then pile in with Drake and take out the middle models. It can get you through some tarpits way faster than your opponent expects

[Fuxxx]

Thanks for the advice so far Haven't played any model of that size yet, so I'm thrilled to try that guy out. Glad to hear the ability is worth more than it initally appears, I mean compared to other big models at first the Stardrake seems like it won't do as much damage...

But I can only choose each model once with the jaws, right?

 

[Dogmantra]

Yes, you can only pick each model once with Cavernous Jaws.

Also, you're sort of right about the Stardrake not doing as much damage as comparable monsters. If you go in expecting it to rip units to shreds you might be disappointed. What I think it's better at is sitting as a nice block of wounds, preferably save stacked to an effective 1+ save, and getting as much mileage as possible out of the -3 rend on its Rain of Stars.

[Fuxxx]

4 minutes ago, Dogmantra said:

Yes, you can only pick each model once with Cavernous Jaws.

Also, you're sort of right about the Stardrake not doing as much damage as comparable monsters. If you go in expecting it to rip units to shreds you might be disappointed. What I think it's better at is sitting as a nice block of wounds, preferably save stacked to an effective 1+ save, and getting as much mileage as possible out of the -3 rend on its Rain of Stars.

Having recently painted and not played yet my unit of Raptors I guess I'll really enjoy sniping stuff with meteors

 Also finally a model to complete all those monsters battle tactics

[feadair]

A couple of 4-1 lists from the UK (113 players):

Army Faction: Stormcast Eternals - Army Type: Scions of the Storm - Army Subfaction: Astral Templars - Grand Strategy: Beast Master - Triumphs: Inspired
LEADER
Karazai the Scarred (600)* - General
Celestant-Prime (325)*
BATTLELINE
Stormdrake Guard (340)* - Drakerider’s Lance
Stormdrake Guard (340)* - Drakerider’s Lance
Stormdrake Guard (340)* - Drakerider’s Lance
CORE BATTALIONS:
*Battle Regiment
TOTAL POINTS: (1945/2000)
 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Celestial Warbringers (Scions of the Storm)
- Grand Strategy: Beast Master
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Knight-Draconis (300)*
- General
- Command Trait: Master of Magic
- Artefact: Arcane Tome (Universal Artefact)
- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts
- Spell: Thundershock

Battleline
2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*
- Drakerider's Lance
2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*
- Drakerider's Lance
2 x Stormdrake Guard (340)*
- Drakerider's Lance

Units
1 x Stormdrake Guard - Single (170)*
6 x Vanguard-Raptors with Longstrike Crossbows (480)*
- Reinforced x 1

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Additional Enhancements
Holy Command: Thunderbolt Volley

Total: 1970 / 2000

[feadair]

Stormcast: What has worked? 
I have been compiling tournament results since our battletome dropped last autumn, and thought it would be fun to consider what has worked for us in practice. It has served to help me plan my painting queue, and I thought I should share it. (The data are based on roughly 60 4-1 or better results in tournaments with 20 or more players. Only tournaments where lists have been easily available have been included.)

Scions lists have seen much more success than Stormkeeps.
Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar has been by far the most popular stormhost.
Grand Strategy: Hold the Line and Beast Master have been the top choices.
Triumphs: Inspired has been by far the most popular triumph

Leaders: Lord Relictor and Knight-Draconis are at the top, but Lord-Commander Bastian and Knight-Judicator have also proven reasonably successful. This surprised me. I for one did not see Knight-Judicator coming at all, and I would have expected Knight-Incantor to find a place in most lists, which it did not.

Command Traits: High Priest and Master of Magic have both proven popular.
Artefacts: a tie between Mirrorshield and Arcane Tome.
Spells: Celestial Blades is where it is at.
Prayers: Translocation, to the surprise of no-one.
Mount Traits: Celestial Instincts is at the top, but quite a few have selected Thunderous Presence.
Holy Commands: Thunderbolt Volley.

Units: Longstrikes, Stormdrakes, Vindictors, Liberators, and Fulminators have all been very popular, and Aetherwings have seen quite a bit of play too. Surprisingly few Grandhammers, and not many Judicators either. 

Hardly anyone has seen success with Endless Spells or Allies.
Battalions: Battle Regiment has been chosen more often than all the other options combined.

Edited April 13, 2022 by feadair

[Marcvs]

1 hour ago, feadair said:

Stormcast: What has worked? 
I have been compiling tournament results since our battletome dropped last autumn, and thought it would be fun to consider what has worked for us in practice. It has served to help me plan my painting queue, and I thought I should share it. (The data are based on roughly 60 4-1 or better results in tournaments with 20 or more players. Only tournaments where lists have been easily available have been included.)

Scions lists have seen much more success than Stormkeeps.
Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar has been by far the most popular stormhost.
Grand Strategy: Hold the Line and Beast Master have been the top choices.
Triumphs: Inspired has been by far the most popular triumph

Leaders: Lord Relictor and Knight-Draconis are at the top, but Lord-Commander Bastian and Knight-Judicator have also proven reasonably successful. This surprised me. I for one did not see Knight-Judicator coming at all, and I would have expected Knight-Incantor to find a place in most lists, which it did not.

Command Traits: High Priest and Master of Magic have both proven popular.
Artefacts: a tie between Mirrorshield and Arcane Tome.
Spells: Celestial Blades is where it is at.
Prayers: Translocation, to the surprise of no-one.
Mount Traits: Celestial Instincts is at the top, but quite a few have selected Thunderous Presence.
Holy Commands: Thunderbolt Volley.

Units: Longstrikes, Stormdrakes, Vindictors, Liberators, and Fulminators have all been very popular, and Aetherwings have seen quite a bit of play too. Surprisingly few Grandhammers, and not many Judicators either. 

Hardly anyone has seen success with Endless Spells or Allies.
Battalions: Battle Regiment has been chosen more often than all the other options combined.

here's hoping that when the nerf-hammer falls for Fulminators (thank you Living city ) and Stormdrake guards, other units get a point reduction or a bit of a rework.

Also, the command trait and artefact part is really telling about the abysmal state of our BT's choices (other than mirrorshield).

personal feeling, but it's a bit depressing how I envy the (competitive) list variety of battletomes with half (or less) the number of warscrolls we have

[JackStreicher]

On 3/31/2022 at 6:10 AM, Baron Klatz said:

Late response but a guy on Reddit did a pretty good swap and these Vanquisher Vindicators with Vigilor swords for Liberator proxies are great! 👌(yeah not Vindictors but close enough)

 

 

Interesting. I've build some Liberators out of vindictors as well for my Celestial Vindicators  (they wield board and sword though)

I'd simply use my Vigilors as Judicators

 

Are there enough blades in the vigilor kit to arm all of them with a sword?

Edited April 13, 2022 by JackStreicher

[Dogmantra]

1 hour ago, feadair said:

Scions lists have seen much more success than Stormkeeps.

Thanks for the post! It kind of confirms the common wisdom.

I think the quoted example is an interesting one, and possibly the odd one out on your list in that Stormkeep vs Scions doesn't feel like so much of a no brainer as something like prayer choice or command traits. I am thinking this may be an artefact of the rest of the book and the SCE meta, where Stormkeep does nothing or almost nothing for a large portion of lists -- anything relying on alternative battleline like stormdrake spam or dracothion guard spam will get zero benefit from being a Stormkeep. Given the benefits, I wonder if we will see a surge in popularity for Stormkeeps if and when a points change/meta shift makes the current meta armies less popular.

[NauticalSoup]

21 minutes ago, Marcvs said:

personal feeling, but it's a bit depressing how I envy the (competitive) list variety of battletomes with half (or less) the number of warscrolls we have

Playing IJ is like a dream next to stormcast. No wrong answers! A small range made up of nothing but bangers.

[Mattrulesok]

2 hours ago, feadair said:

Really good stuff

 

I'd be curious to know which units made it into 4+ win lists the least but still made it in at least 1?

 

I went 4-1 with a list that had a unit of gryph-hounds and a stardrake and I saw the list with Heraldors but what other secret tech is out there?

 

 

Also ran this vs a friends Living City list yesterday on power in number (which on refection was a big bonus for my army). Call ed the game for me Rd 3, list felt really tough was able to nullify all of living cities tricks.

 

Allegiance: Stormcast Eternals
- Stormhost: Hammers of Sigmar (Scions of the Storm)
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty
Lord-Celestant on Stardrake (500)*
- General
- Stormbound Blade
- Command Trait: Master of the Celestial Menagerie
- Artefact: Mirrorshield
- Mount Trait: Celestial Instincts
Lord-Relictor (145)*
- Prayer: Divine Light
4 x Dracothian Guard Concussors (440)*
- Reinforced x 1
4 x Dracothian Guard Tempestors (440)*
- Reinforced x 1
2 x Dracothian Guard Desolators (220)*
5 x Vindictors (130)*
6 x Gryph-Hounds (110)*
*Battle Regiment
Holy Command: Call for Aid

Total: 1985 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 2 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 112
Drops: 1