AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Boggler]

It's going to be a completely different playstyle for sure. This will take time to figure out.

I'm really not sure where our damage is supposed to come from. It's crazy to see they reduced out already low output in many cases. What do we have that will kill a gargant?

Debuffs add value I guess. But not vs Ranged attacks which will continue to be a massive problem for us. Did they see that Spirit Hosts were the hardest models to assemble and then decide to make them the core of the army?

Perhaps @dmorley21 was right this whole time. The Incarnate now seems to be an auto include for me. Maybe slightly better than Big Drogg.

Its an interesting situation.

RIP Nagash. It was fun...

[Rachmani]

I haven’t even started to process everything but so far, I like what I see. Very much so.

Most 3.0 books have done a good job at incorporating the feel of an army (essentially the fluff) into its actual gameplay.

It looks like NH are no exception. An army of Bladegheists with the right heroes and a coach or two will look and feel amazing. And and so will a more complex cast of units.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Rachmani

[dmorley21]

46 minutes ago, Vastus said:

Nothing extraordinary there. Not sure if Grimghasts really measure up to Bladgheists or Harridans though.

It’ll remain the same. Grimghasts are weaker as MSU, but the best if you reinforce them. 

18 minutes ago, Boggler said:

It's going to be a completely different playstyle for sure. This will take time to figure out.

I'm really not sure where our damage is supposed to come from. It's crazy to see they reduced out already low output in many cases. What do we have that will kill a gargant?

Debuffs add value I guess. But not vs Ranged attacks which will continue to be a massive problem for us. Did they see that Spirit Hosts were the hardest models to assemble and then decide to make them the core of the army?

Perhaps @dmorley21 was right this whole time. The Incarnate now seems to be an auto include for me. Maybe slightly better than Big Drogg.

Its an interesting situation.

RIP Nagash. It was fun...

Yeah, you’re probably not lifting a Mega a turn. But you can charge one… and just trap it. 

The damage will come from charges largely.

Also, keep in mind Krondspire makes fishing for certain Wave of Terror results  fun, but also shuts off retreat and charge. Still think he has a lot of play with this army. 

Also, more of you need to talk about Hexwraiths! Soooo good. 

[Bayul]

This is my first idea for a Scarlet Doom list:

Quote

Allegiance: Nighthaunt

- Procession: Scarlet Doom
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Bloodthirsty

Battle Regiment

Knight of Shrouds on Ethereal Steed (155)
- General 
- Command Trait: Ruler of the Spectral Hosts (or Skilled Leader)

10 x Grimghast Reapers (160)

10 x Grimghast Reapers (160)

30 x Chainrasp Horde (330)

30 x Chainrasp Horde (330)

Vanguard

Guardian of Souls (150)
- Artefact: Midnight Tome

20 x Bladegheist Revenants (350)

20 x Bladegheist Revenants (350)

Total: 1985 / 2000

Grimghast Reapers are a flex spot I guess. There is still a MONSTER missing in this army and I hope the Mourngul gets a proper update soon.

Edited April 30, 2022 by Bayul

[Fellman]

17 minutes ago, Bayul said:

This is my first idea for a Scarlet Doom list:

Grimghast Reapers are a flex spot I guess. There is still a MONSTER missing in this army and I hope the Mourngul gets a proper update soon.

the reinforcment points dont ad up 4 to for your Chainrasp Horde 3 mor for your grimgast and blade ghast

[That Guy]

So many people are looking for the rules. I'll make a small summary of easy access.
In another post i'll share my opinion about it all. I'm excited go give the Grieving legion a swing... All of the processions are awesome though.

I do not condone any nefarious behavior and will just show it as a form of first look rather than anything else.

Most of the tome and matched play rules: 

Spoiler

https://imgur.com/a/c8EaGSJ 

Most of tome, but with PTG rules:

Spoiler

https://imgur.com/gallery/RsKF7jZ

 

Dreadblade Harrow:

Spoiler

The Briar Queen and her thorns:

Spoiler

Black Coach:

Spoiler

Grimghast Reapers: 

Spoiler

 

Edited April 30, 2022 by That Guy

[Vastus]

Even reading the Scarlet Doom flavor text, it genuinely feels like they intended it to be for Dreadscythe Harridans, but then they realized that MW on the charge for a unit that benefits from enemies being wounded was too easy of a synergy and they swapped things around.

[lare2]

49 minutes ago, That Guy said:

So many people are looking for the rules. I'll make a small summary of easy access.

Not all heroes wear capes. Careful of the mods posting this though. 

I'm loving Dreadblade. Curse of Loyalty is lush. 

I'm still taking everything in but there seems to be a lot of combos to make us just... survive. Minuses to hit, minuses to wound, minuses to damage... we just can't be touched!

Edited April 30, 2022 by lare2

[That Guy]

11 minutes ago, lare2 said:

Not all heroes wear capes. Careful of the mods posting this though. 

I'm loving Dreadblade. Curse of Loyalty is lush. 

I am trembling with excitement when I read the rules, all these possibilities... All these strings to pull.
As for the post. Yeah it's a bit of a grey area, but here's the thing. It's not like this content won't be available in a few weeks through reviewers having their review copy. The cat is out of the bag and people will look over the net. If they really want me to take i down I will. Their loss in that case, then people will look elsewhere and not stay on these forums. This is an unusual situation to begin with. Reviewers gain consent from GW to share it all when pre-orders are up, but actually these rules should be behind a paywall, but the warscrolls should not. They will be available publicly, so what's good or bad in this situation?

[lare2]

1 minute ago, That Guy said:

The cat is out of the bag and people will look over the net. If they really want me to take i down I will.

Mate, either way I saved all the pics to my phone quick fast - ha ha!

[Rachmani]

36 minutes ago, Vastus said:

Even reading the Scarlet Doom flavor text, it genuinely feels like they intended it to be for Dreadscythe Harridans, but then they realized that MW on the charge for a unit that benefits from enemies being wounded was too easy of a synergy and they swapped things around.

Right? Well… it’s fine either way, but yeah. Reads like a last minute change.

[Jabbuk]

Gotta say, I'm amazed at the new possibilities of this book. It seems really thematic and fun. I kind of feel bad for flipping out when the combo box came out. Oh well, I learned my lesson.

 

That being said, I am surprised about Awlrach. He seems to be a small model, standing at 175pts. They kind of talked about him as a centerpiece in the preview, if I remember correctly. Was expecting a 10+ wounds hero perhaps. What do you guys think? Is the movement shenanigans seem mandatory to you?

[dmorley21]

6 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Gotta say, I'm amazed at the new possibilities of this book. It seems really thematic and fun. I kind of feel bad for flipping out when the combo box came out. Oh well, I learned my lesson.

 

That being said, I am surprised about Awlrach. He seems to be a small model, standing at 175pts. They kind of talked about him as a centerpiece in the preview, if I remember correctly. Was expecting a 10+ wounds hero perhaps. What do you guys think? Is the movement shenanigans seem mandatory to you?

Not at all mandatory. 

This army can retreat and charge.

3 units can be lifted off the board after deployment to deepstrike.

The Harrow and Black Coach teleport.

Hexwraiths can move 24”.

The whole army moves at least 8” and flies.

Awlrach is nice, but redundant. That’s a tough spot to be with so many other good heroes. 

[That Guy]

5 minutes ago, Jabbuk said:

Gotta say, I'm amazed at the new possibilities of this book. It seems really thematic and fun. I kind of feel bad for flipping out when the combo box came out. Oh well, I learned my lesson.

 

That being said, I am surprised about Awlrach. He seems to be a small model, standing at 175pts. They kind of talked about him as a centerpiece in the preview, if I remember correctly. Was expecting a 10+ wounds hero perhaps. What do you guys think? Is the movement shenanigans seem mandatory to you?

Mandatory? No. But he took over the role the dreadblade had. The dreadblade can vanish and re-appear, no longer can it call units to his side. This is Awlrach's utility now. It is an incredibly strong ability to just be able to take 2 units from anywhere on the battlefield (1 being boatboy) and than re-appear with almost full freedom where. I can't wait to just pull my 15 craventhrone from a heavily contested melee objective and make them appear behind a building. The ability even allows you to pull them away from units that don't let you retreat. A lot of units have bonuses to charge and with awlrach you can tie down entire units. You can be oh so annoying while playing grieving legion. Just imagine the faces when you drop a chainrasp unit in front of dragons and put a krulghast nearby. Now those dragons are tied down in a fight with -1 damage and they can't retreat. While you can just pull away with everything you got anywhere. I think there's many more tricks. But we are going to be a very annoying tarpit army i'll tell you that.

[The_Dudemeister]

7 minutes ago, That Guy said:

But he took over the role the dreadblade had. The dreadblade can vanish and re-appear, no longer can it call units to his side. This is Awlrach's utility now. It is an incredibly strong ability to just be able to take 2 units from anywhere on the battlefield (1 being boatboy) and than re-appear with almost full freedom where. 

Dreadblade copies this Command Ability for free though. So you can get ALL the teleporting.

 

Heck, go even more nuts. Awlrach's and then Dreadblades copy telporting happens at the start of the movement phase. After that, Dreadblade can teleport himself again at the end of the movement phase. ALL THE TELEPORTING!

Edited April 30, 2022 by The_Dudemeister

[Jabbuk]

Damn, you guys have some great ideas! Keep it coming!

[That Guy]

6 minutes ago, The_Dudemeister said:

Dreadblade copies this Command Ability for free though. So you can get ALL the teleporting.

 

Heck, go even more nuts. Awlrach's and then Dreadblades copy telporting happens at the start of the movement phase. After that, Dreadblade can teleport himself again at the end of the movement phase. ALL THE TELEPORTING!

This does however require awlrach to be general. Meaning no command trait. Not that they are particularly super strong....

[Vastus]

Speaking of the Command Traits. They do seem all kind of meh, especially with the Ruler of the Spirit Hosts change. Feels like 9/10 times you're better off taking Master of Magic on a caster general to get Soul Cage or something out more consistently. Our spell lore is still damn good, but we still don't have casting bonuses outside Reikenor so MoM is incredibly valuable.

[lare2]

Can anyone see anything to improve charges? I can never make 9".

[dmorley21]

12 minutes ago, lare2 said:

Can anyone see anything to improve charges? I can never make 9".

Chronomantic Cogs and Krondspine. But the movement shenanigans are more aimed at board control as opposed to being able to charge from anywhere. 

[lare2]

16 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

Chronomantic Cogs and Krondspine. But the movement shenanigans are more aimed at board control as opposed to being able to charge from anywhere. 

Thanks for that. Agreed but most lists I'm building centre around 30 Bladegheists and would love to get that initial 9" Vanishing Phantasms a bit more secure. 

[mojojojo101]

After a second look, I really like the new Black Coach scroll, it feels way less convoluted than the current scroll, brings decent rend 2 output and Evocation of Death seems pretty good, especially against armies with hordes that go down easy to MW output where it will very easily refill itself if it goes off.

It's currently the only Nighthaunt model I don't own (other than Nagash) but I think I'm going to finally splash the cash on it and give it a go.

[The_Dudemeister]

30 minutes ago, lare2 said:

Thanks for that. Agreed but most lists I'm building centre around 30 Bladegheists and would love to get that initial 9" Vanishing Phantasms a bit more secure. 

The universal triumph Bloodthirsty gives you a charge reroll to boost your chance from 28% to 48%.

 

Glaivewraith have an innate +1 to charge for a 42% chance. Together with the small footprint of them, they make good companions for charges from deepstrike.

 

The triumph is also only used up if you already failed the charge. So when your Bladegheists succeed first try, you can use the reroll on them for an almost 60% to get in there too. Honestly might as well take 2 units of Glaivewraiths as they're among our cheapest units so aren't a big over commitment

[Boggler]

1 hour ago, mojojojo101 said:

It's currently the only Nighthaunt model I don't own.

Same. I'm glad that I'll be saving money on Awlrach as I don't think I'll ever play him.

The Dreadscythe I'm currently working took an unexpected hit...

All the lists I'm making either lack the DPS required for the current meta, or don't have the models to do what I want to do.

In fact, I'm stunned by how our overall DPS took such a hit for the increase in pts cost.

We'll see I guess, but yeah, the cat is out of the bag... I'm interested to see how GW releases their preview and spin the new army...

Is the Scarlett Doom Bladegheist bomb our only source of damage? Retreat and bomb again? Its only 6-7 mortals plus not much more damage from the actual Bladegheists but it could be a fun distraction blob.

Here is a list, the GoS will have that Midnight Tome to guarantee Cogs into play for that 7" Bladegheist charge:

Spoiler

Lady O - 340

Kurd - 210

GoS - 150

 

SH X6 = 250

Hex - 150

Hex - 150

 

Bladex2 - 350

Bladex2 - 350

 

Cogs - 45

The SH babysit Kurdoss while he goes up the board. He's in this list because why not? Lady O will try and keep those Bladegheist blobs model count high enough to matter. Hexwraiths because they are good.

I also though about 10 Craventhrone and a Black Coach to deepstrike and shoot/3d3mortal something but I'd have to get the model first...

Who wrote this book? The Fyreslayers guy? Where is our damage supposed to come from?

[Baron Klatz]

So happy to see NightHaunt players with big (rictus) grins about this. 😄

AoS3.0 is hitting it out of the park on marrying Matched play to the Narrative rules. Really liking the looks of all of this. (Boat ghost and tracking down some Soul Wars sets are probably in my group’s future)

Also kinda an odd thought but I wonder if that AoS Stormground  videogame influenced them a bit on Stormcast, Maggotkin and NightHaunt? Each feels like the game equivalent now of very MSU forces that heavy support, slow & corrupt and move quickly in multiples respectively.

Most of all just giddy my hopes of the Silver Banshees of Elixia becoming a sub-faction have been realized! 😍

Loved the Elixia city lore since 2015’s Quest for Ghal Maraz and have been hoping with this book the NightHaunt could finally use the quicksilver ghosts and sentient flying swords from that haunted city.

Edit: on the ally NightHaunt loses Ethereal thing I’d just head-canon that as the mistrustful Soulblight/Wightking binding the spirit to the physical plane so they can’t slip away.  

Edited May 1, 2022 by Baron Klatz