AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Neck-Romantic]

@Aeryenn thats a subjective question.

We've been in dire need of a re written battletome for a year now and the changes in mechanics for AoS3.0 are only deepening the cracks. They are still playable of course... but tourney worthy? 

 

Not without a lot of expertise as far as very precise measurements and movements, knowing exactly what you can kill and what youde have to sandbag/avoid, and walking in with a firm understanding of how your TO is handling specific rules issues with how our aging book interacts with other armies and today version.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Neck-Romantic

[dmorley21]

30 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

Hi. Is Nighthaunt playable with the new rules or I can keep my ghosts on the shelf until new battletome arrives?

It’ll take some actual games, but I see Nighthaunt as being pretty much in the same spot as they’ve been. 

[Neck-Romantic]

3 minutes ago, dmorley21 said:

It’ll take some actual games, but I see Nighthaunt as being pretty much in the same spot as they’ve been. 

Agreed. Ide play a game or two for fun with friends, but Im not taking them out at a tournament or any competetive scene until we get a new book. We were the first book of 2nd edition and it very clearly shows.

Our gimmick was being a speedy anti-elite force who dealt damage primarily through trickles of mortal wounds while being immune to rend. The meta has changed handfulls of times since AoS 2.0 dropped. 

MW spam, double fight mechanics, fight-order mechanics, power creep and threat range creep have all evolved while we have stagnated fairly harshly.

Edited July 9, 2021 by Neck-Romantic

[Aeryenn]

@Neck-Romantic@dmorley21

Yeah, was afraid so.

No monsters, no all out defense, no shooting. You know what is the pain? That GW can't prepare factions before it releases new core rules. Some changes should have been done in form of errata. Even for temporary use like give Black Coach monster keyword, allow Nighthaunt to improve their save. Just to be playable before they receive a new book. Instead we might wait two more years before this army is fixed.

Same goes for other factions like Bonereapers (that can't use new Command Abilities) or factions that were really bad before (Beasts, Sylvaneth, Gloomspite)

Edited July 9, 2021 by Aeryenn

[Neck-Romantic]

One thing Im seeing that nobody has mentioned; the unleash hell command might be a surprise to opponents. 

 

We have vanishingly little ranged (I always wished we had a massed banshee scream ranged unit) but what we do have is fairly nasty. Burning a command point to give the Krulghast, the Briar Queen, or possibly chainghasts a surprise volley might be worth it; especially in the KC's case to activate his aura

[Aeryenn]

1 minute ago, Neck-Romantic said:

One thing Im seeing that nobody has mentioned; the unleash hell command might be a surprise to opponents. 

 

We have vanishingly little ranged (I always wished we had a massed banshee scream ranged unit) but what we do have is fairly nasty. Burning a command point to give the Krulghast, the Briar Queen, or possibly chainghasts a surprise volley might be worth it; especially in the KC's case to activate his aura

Waste of Command Point.

Take Krulghast. 4 attacks hitting on 4+, wounding on 3+. 1 dmg. It will score like one damage. No threat at all.

[Benlisted]

I agree that we are not looking to be climbing the totem pole relative to where we were in 2.0.  That said, it's still an interesting exercise to work out what, under the new rules, is the optimal way to play NH (at least, it is to me..)

Personally I am feeling the following:

• Emerald Host seems to > Reikenor's lot now, unless going for very specific rasp-heavy builds.  I'm talking something like 4x20 perhaps.  Rasps in general just don't seem to cut it as they once did to me, largely due to their points hike and reapers dropping, making them nearly equally efficient points wise for the wounds and ethereal save you get.
• Reapers in general seem like the gold standard if you want to go for blocks of wounds - the price drop helps vs rasps, and the 2" reach and being battleline vs the other 32mm stuff.
• With our hordes of 1w models going out of vogue slightly, I think hexes and hosts become more valuable - and MWs seem really useful with all the +save going around.  Hexes are less good but in EH give you that crucial bodyguard, and can just be used as fast stuff otherwise.  Hosts however I think have good mileage as a unit you can grab 6 of as a brick to take a charge (meaning some die letting you hit 5 or fewer models and ignore coherency issues) and making good use of our model regen abilities.
• With MSU more of a thing, the Coach and Mourngul both seem like more attractive options.  Host spam with coaches for regen seems solid, and the Mourngul (assuming it's legal) isn't a terrible cheap monster, and can potentially be used to lure the opponent into picking missions giving them bonuses for killing them which we can deny with its mobility/holding it in reserve.
• Heroes I find I am taking far less of than in 2.0 when I would rarely leave home without 5-6.  Now 3-4 is the norm.  I think this is because the 1w units were more dependent on them, but if you shift away from that you need fewer heroes.
• I feel like with our mobility and fragility getting to pick who goes first will be absolutely key.  We can compensate for a deployment being suboptimal and pounce on the opponent by going second.  Lots of battle regiments will be good for this reason.
• The "keep battle line alive" strat is looking very appealing.  With little reason to take bladegheists/harridans over reapers and potentially spamming hexwraiths/hosts, a huge chunk of our lists will likely be battle line.

Just my thoughts having played around with lists and the rules so far, no games yet though.  

[CaptainSoup]

 

7 minutes ago, Benlisted said:

I agree that we are not looking to be climbing the totem pole relative to where we were in 2.0.  That said, it's still an interesting exercise to work out what, under the new rules, is the optimal way to play NH (at least, it is to me..)

Personally I am feeling the following:

• Emerald Host seems to > Reikenor's lot now, unless going for very specific rasp-heavy builds.  I'm talking something like 4x20 perhaps.  Rasps in general just don't seem to cut it as they once did to me, largely due to their points hike and reapers dropping, making them nearly equally efficient points wise for the wounds and ethereal save you get.
• Reapers in general seem like the gold standard if you want to go for blocks of wounds - the price drop helps vs rasps, and the 2" reach and being battleline vs the other 32mm stuff.
• With our hordes of 1w models going out of vogue slightly, I think hexes and hosts become more valuable - and MWs seem really useful with all the +save going around.  Hexes are less good but in EH give you that crucial bodyguard, and can just be used as fast stuff otherwise.  Hosts however I think have good mileage as a unit you can grab 6 of as a brick to take a charge (meaning some die letting you hit 5 or fewer models and ignore coherency issues) and making good use of our model regen abilities.
• With MSU more of a thing, the Coach and Mourngul both seem like more attractive options.  Host spam with coaches for regen seems solid, and the Mourngul (assuming it's legal) isn't a terrible cheap monster, and can potentially be used to lure the opponent into picking missions giving them bonuses for killing them which we can deny with its mobility/holding it in reserve.
• Heroes I find I am taking far less of than in 2.0 when I would rarely leave home without 5-6.  Now 3-4 is the norm.  I think this is because the 1w units were more dependent on them, but if you shift away from that you need fewer heroes.
• I feel like with our mobility and fragility getting to pick who goes first will be absolutely key.  We can compensate for a deployment being suboptimal and pounce on the opponent by going second.  Lots of battle regiments will be good for this reason.
• The "keep battle line alive" strat is looking very appealing.  With little reason to take bladegheists/harridans over reapers and potentially spamming hexwraiths/hosts, a huge chunk of our lists will likely be battle line.

Just my thoughts having played around with lists and the rules so far, no games yet though.  

I'm leaning toward a Reikenor's Condemned build. With EH all you're doing is creating a new version of DG essentially creating an Olynder "Death Star" that is okay at best. Unless you're spamming reapers you simply aren't going to have a strong enough hammer to rely on wiping out enemy units. Nighthaunt aren't built for their damage, so don't put a lot of your eggs in that basket.

Looking at a RC build however, sure chainrasps aren't what they used to be, but they can still hop around the board and take objectives and just be a thorn in your opponent's backside, which is what Nighthaunt are built for. With a Tokyo Drifting Reikenor and one other hero being your general that is two locations to use our army wide command ability to just teleport a unit somewhere else. You also get to keep Ruler of the Spirit Hosts for your second general while also letting a unit of rasps move an extra 6". The free candle ain't too bad of an artifact either. Keep a unit of Reapers and a black coach around to be our "damage dealers" and distract the opponent so we can pursue our main objective of grabbing objectives. 

Will this make Nighthaunt good or make them tournament worthy? Not by a long shot. We are in a terrible position right now and I'll keep saying that until it is shown otherwise (much to some people's annoyance with those of us constantly complaining). That being said, if you're like me and are sticking with the ghosty bois, we make do with what we can.

[CaptainSoup]

40 minutes ago, Aeryenn said:

@Neck-Romantic@dmorley21

Yeah, was afraid so.

No monsters, no all out defense, no shooting. You know what is the pain? That GW can't prepare factions before it releases new core rules. Some changes should have been done in form of errata. Even for temporary use like give Black Coach monster keyword, allow Nighthaunt to improve their save. Just to be playable before they receive a new book. Instead we might wait two more years before this army is fixed.

Same goes for other factions like Bonereapers (that can't use new Command Abilities) or factions that were really bad before (Beasts, Sylvaneth, Gloomspite)

Yes, unfortunately the only good way for us to take advantage of most of the new features of the new edition is to ally some Gravelords. Mannfred is an appealing option since he is a whole package and everything we need in a tough to kill package. Mournguls cost way too much for not being both a hero and a monster, and the fact that we didn't get any serious changes in our FAQ means we'll be sitting here in the bottom brackets for a long, long time to come. 

Edited July 9, 2021 by CaptainSoup

[dmorley21]

I still see both Emerald Host and Reikenor's Command being valid choices. 

The -1 Save part of Emerald Host is useful with so many heroic monsters running around. And keeping a general alive is quite important, as it grants you an extra command point (Reikenor's Command features two generals though) but also makes the Slay the Warlord battle tactic tougher to achieve. It's a slam dunk for our opponents to take outside of Emerald Host, but with Emerald Host you can make them think twice... and anytime Nighthaunt players can get their opponents to think twice, it's well worth it. A couple other things I've thought of or seen worth discussing:

• Warhammer Weekly was really high on the Mortalis Terminexus endless spell on this week's episode. I'd been too busy hoping it would change to be like the old Cogs to really notice, but it is a rather nice mortal wound bomb, especially against armies that like to castle. 
• I think our army has two grand strategies that work for us - the battleline one (Hold the Line) and the one where you have to claim more terrain than your opponent (Predator's Domain). I see the latter one being the better right now, due to the army's ability to go where it wants. 
• Two Mournguls is useful for both the Monstrous Takeover and Savage Spearhead battle tactics. Being relatively small bases (for a monster) that you can deepstrike almost guarantees getting these battle tactics. I saw two because they'll claim 3 VPs with Savage Spearhead. The trick with the Mournguls is keeping them alive so you don't sacrifice VPs, which if I ran them I'd try to buddy them up with a Krulghast to give them the 5+ Ward. 

 

[CaptainSoup]

1 hour ago, dmorley21 said:

I still see both Emerald Host and Reikenor's Command being valid choices. 

The -1 Save part of Emerald Host is useful with so many heroic monsters running around. And keeping a general alive is quite important, as it grants you an extra command point (Reikenor's Command features two generals though) but also makes the Slay the Warlord battle tactic tougher to achieve. It's a slam dunk for our opponents to take outside of Emerald Host, but with Emerald Host you can make them think twice... and anytime Nighthaunt players can get their opponents to think twice, it's well worth it. A couple other things I've thought of or seen worth discussing:

• Warhammer Weekly was really high on the Mortalis Terminexus endless spell on this week's episode. I'd been too busy hoping it would change to be like the old Cogs to really notice, but it is a rather nice mortal wound bomb, especially against armies that like to castle. 
• I think our army has two grand strategies that work for us - the battleline one (Hold the Line) and the one where you have to claim more terrain than your opponent (Predator's Domain). I see the latter one being the better right now, due to the army's ability to go where it wants. 
• Two Mournguls is useful for both the Monstrous Takeover and Savage Spearhead battle tactics. Being relatively small bases (for a monster) that you can deepstrike almost guarantees getting these battle tactics. I saw two because they'll claim 3 VPs with Savage Spearhead. The trick with the Mournguls is keeping them alive so you don't sacrifice VPs, which if I ran them I'd try to buddy them up with a Krulghast to give them the 5+ Ward. 

 

Emerald Host has its uses and since we're so low on the totem pole anyway there are ways to make a presentable list with it. 

The Mortalis Terminexus is interesting in a vacuum, though I always struggle to understand the investment in endless spells since its inception, especially now that there are a lot of spellcasters out there waiting to counter your casting. Emerald Lifeswarm is an interesting spell though, as it is a means to help bring models back which is something we desperately need right now.

I see a lot of people take Predator's Domain and it makes sense. IMO its probably our go-to choice.

Two Mournguls is a huge investment, spending over a quarter of a 2000pt list in them, and then invest even more to have a pocket character to help keep them alive while also not getting that character sniped as it struggles to keep up with the big ghost monsters. That's a really tough sell to me when you can simply spend under 400pts on a single monster hero that can do all of that and deal more damage without needing anyone else to help him. This is also ignoring the fact of how hard to find Mournguls are to get a hold of these days. I'm lucky enough to have one!

Still though, this is all theory crafting at the end of the day and I welcome any new list ideas to help keep us afloat the bottom tier, something to at least keep things interesting while we get wiped off the table when facing against more modern factions.

Edited July 9, 2021 by CaptainSoup

[EnixLHQ]

28 minutes ago, CaptainSoup said:

Emerald Host has its uses and since we're so low on the totem pole anyway there are ways to make a presentable list with it. 

The Mortalis Terminexus is interesting in a vacuum, though I always struggle to understand the investment in endless spells since its inception, especially now that there are a lot of spellcasters out there waiting to counter your casting. Emerald Lifeswarm is an interesting spell though, as it is a means to help bring models back which is something we desperately need right now.

I see a lot of people take Predator's Domain and it makes sense. IMO its probably our go-to choice.

Two Mournguls is a huge investment, spending over a quarter of a 2000pt list in them, and then invest even more to have a pocket character to help keep them alive while also not getting that character sniped as it struggles to keep up with the big ghost monsters. That's a really tough sell to me when you can simply spend under 400pts on a single monster hero that can do all of that and deal more damage without needing anyone else to help him. This is also ignoring the fact of how hard to find Mournguls are to get a hold of these days. I'm lucky enough to have one!

Still though, this is all theory crafting at the end of the day and I welcome any new list ideas to help keep us afloat the bottom tier, something to at least keep things interesting while we get wiped off the table when facing against more modern factions.

I like using Endless Spells as a form of distraction. "Hey, here's this big ol' footprint next to your hero or important unit. Want to leave it there or dispel it? Go ahead, one less spell to cast on me, then." Yes, unbinding, though we have ways to get around that for spells we want, the act of casting an endless spell is almost always going to provoke an unbind roll. Another way to fish for a distraction while our Spectral Lure or Shademist is still on the ticket to be cast next.

On the monster front, don't forget we all get access to Metamorphosis this battlepack. Temporary monster status for a chosen hero. Another spell, one likely to have an unbind attempt, and none of the increased damage or health for being a monster, but hey, it's free. Maybe bring a casting hero, or Mystic Tome, specifically for this and try to score some points on the sly. Falls in line with the rest of the trickery we have to do to function as an army, anyway.

[peasant]

Hi, after lot of pondering of the actual state of NH Ive decided to join the spooky fellas and bought my first Ghosts:

1 Spirit torment

20 chainrasp Horde

2 chainghasts

My idea is start a 1k army with a tanking unit like 9 Spirit hostal that I could resurrect easily with my general.

What do you think?

 

 

 

 

 

[EnixLHQ]

12 minutes ago, peasant said:

Hi, after lot of pondering of the actual state of NH Ive decided to join the spooky fellas and bought my first Ghosts:

1 Spirit torment

20 chainrasp Horde

2 chainghasts

My idea is start a 1k army with a tanking unit like 9 Spirit hostal that I could resurrect easily with my general.

What do you think?

Oof. Bit of a loaded question right now.

First, the negatives: We're not a tanky army. 9 Spirit Hosts, which is all of your reinforcements at 1k, is a lot of wounds and you don't lose a base until you lose 3 of them, but our Ethereal 4+ and 6+ ward only goes so far. I suppose at a 1k game there won't be too much firepower you'll have to contend with, but that's a lot of points in one basket. I'd consider something to shore up the deficit. A Krulghast Cruciator (a model you haven't listed you got) can help, with the ward buff he brings. Spirit Torment with Mystic Tome and Shademist can also help, though it's a spell and can be unbound. You will be relying on Ruler of the Spirit Host to keep the Spirit Hosts around, which means you will also want to protect your Spirit Torment at all costs. Lastly, a list like this lacks firepower. Spirit Hosts can do a surprising amount of mortals if you roll well, but that's a chance.

Positives: Welcome to an army of mobility! Spirit Hosts and Chanrasps are slow on their warscroll, but between shoving half your army into Underworlds for redeploy, Spectral Summons with our now more plentiful Command Points, and Fly, not much will stop them. If you claim some early objectives and keep more than your opponent, especially with the Predator's Domain Grand Strategy and taking any in your opponent's zone, you stand a good chance at an early game lead. If you take the Reikenor's Condemned Procession your Chainrasps get a damage buff as long as the Spirit Torment or Chainghasts are around, and get a speed buff with a CP, all while keeping your command trait. You'll lose the Mystic Tome, or any other artefact, for a Corpse Candle, though, but it can come in pinch during a fight; 1 guaranteed mortal wound to an enemy model plus +1 to hit for the ST, or gamble a bit and take a wound on your ST (and fail the ward roll) and get +1 hit and +1 wound. Maybe Captured Soul Energy will heal it up later.

Pretty much sums up all of our current benefits and issues any list would have.

[Jabbuk]

@EnixLHQ that's a great summary.

In that spirit, I revisited a 1k list for a tagteam and here's what I got so far:

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Grand Strategy:
- Triumphs:
Krulghast Cruciator (120)
- General
- Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
Spirit Torment (115)
6 x Spirit Hosts (250)
- Reinforced x 1
10 x Chainrasp Horde (95)
10 x Bladegheist Revenants (190)
Black Coach (220)

Total: 990 / 1000
Reinforced Units: 1 / 2
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 61
 

Globally, KC with Spirit Hosts and Black Coach in the back for maximum staying power. Bladegheists drop with ST (possibly get a tome for him to make a wizard) and Chainrasps in underworld too to either screen bladegheists or grab a far objective or whatever.

What do you think of that list? Is playing the Black Coach at that level too much of a point sink?

Edited July 9, 2021 by Jabbuk

[EnixLHQ]

1 hour ago, Jabbuk said:

What do you think of that list? Is playing the Black Coach at that level too much of a point sink?

My opinion only, but yeah, a bit too much for 1k. We don't really know how we play yet.

That being said, I've got a maybe game this weekend and here's what I was going to run.

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Emerald Host
- Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Spirit Torment (115) in Warlord
- General
- Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Midnight Tome - Soul Cage
Guardian of Souls with Nightmare Lantern (135) in Warlord
- Infernal Lantern (Artefact): Wychlight Lantern
- Lore of the Underworlds: Shademist
Krulghast Cruciator (120) in Warlord

Battleline
10 x Grimghast Reapers (155) in Warlord
10 x Grimghast Reapers (155) in Hunters of the Heartlands

Units
10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (160) in Warlord
10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (160) in Hunters of the Heartlands

Core Battalions
Warlord
Hunters of the Heartlands

Total: 1000 / 1000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 2
Allies: 0 / 200
Wounds: 56
 

Just trying to cover bases against lists I don't know about. ST and Harridans will make them really scary, KC with Reapers will make them really scary. GoS to fill out Warlord and give me the extra artefact and CP, and bring Shademist and some more model return, likely to follow the KC and Reapers.

3 units can go into the Underworld. Figuring maybe the ST and both Harridan groups for an early drop on an objective. Lose the first turn extra CP, but the one for Warlord should make up for that if I need it.

And then one each Harridan and Reaper in the Hunters battalion, just in case there is an enemy monster. One each can go fight it.

 

[peasant]

29 minutes ago, EnixLHQ said:

Oof. Bit of a loaded question right now.

First, the negatives: We're not a tanky army. 9 Spirit Hosts, which is all of your reinforcements at 1k, is a lot of wounds and you don't lose a base until you lose 3 of them, but our Ethereal 4+ and 6+ ward only goes so far. I suppose at a 1k game there won't be too much firepower you'll have to contend with, but that's a lot of points in one basket. I'd consider something to shore up the deficit. A Krulghast Cruciator (a model you haven't listed you got) can help, with the ward buff he brings. Spirit Torment with Mystic Tome and Shademist can also help, though it's a spell and can be unbound. You will be relying on Ruler of the Spirit Host to keep the Spirit Hosts around, which means you will also want to protect your Spirit Torment at all costs. Lastly, a list like this lacks firepower. Spirit Hosts can do a surprising amount of mortals if you roll well, but that's a chance.

Positives: Welcome to an army of mobility! Spirit Hosts and Chanrasps are slow on their warscroll, but between shoving half your army into Underworlds for redeploy, Spectral Summons with our now more plentiful Command Points, and Fly, not much will stop them. If you claim some early objectives and keep more than your opponent, especially with the Predator's Domain Grand Strategy and taking any in your opponent's zone, you stand a good chance at an early game lead. If you take the Reikenor's Condemned Procession your Chainrasps get a damage buff as long as the Spirit Torment or Chainghasts are around, and get a speed buff with a CP, all while keeping your command trait. You'll lose the Mystic Tome, or any other artefact, for a Corpse Candle, though, but it can come in pinch during a fight; 1 guaranteed mortal wound to an enemy model plus +1 to hit for the ST, or gamble a bit and take a wound on your ST (and fail the ward roll) and get +1 hit and +1 wound. Maybe Captured Soul Energy will heal it up later.

Pretty much sums up all of our current benefits and issues any list would have.

Thank you for such good and considerable insight!

[The_Dudemeister]

On 7/9/2021 at 3:31 PM, Aeryenn said:

You know what is the pain? That GW can't prepare factions before it releases new core rules. Some changes should have been done in form of errata... Just to be playable before they receive a new book. Instead we might wait two more years before this army is fixed.

 

Same goes for other factions like Bonereapers (that can't use new Command Abilities)...

Joke's on us. The rules team has people who actually play Bonereapers. Their FAQ has very specific errata to make them playable for the new edition.

 

You know, like 4 out of 6 battalion boni grant command points or let you use Command abilities for free once per battle. FAQ added the rule for Bonereapers that they get Relentless Discipline Points instead. The use of those Points is for the whole army, not just for units from one of the battalions. So it's technically even better. Would've been a darn shame if an army had to do without new core mechanics and abilities just because the new edition changed around the faction :^)

[Btimmy]

2 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:

Joke's on us. The rules team has people who actually play Bonereapers. Their FAQ has very specific errata to make them playable for the new edition.

 

You know, like 4 out of 6 battalion boni grant command points or let you use Command abilities for free once per battle. FAQ added the rule for Bonereapers that they get Relentless Discipline Points instead. The use of those Points is for the whole army, not just for units from one of the battalions. So it's technically even better. Would've been a darn shame if an army had to do without new core mechanics and abilities just because the new edition changed around the faction :^)

This is not true? Unless something new has been released obr cannot use any of the new command abilities. 

[Btimmy]

2 hours ago, The_Dudemeister said:

Joke's on us. The rules team has people who actually play Bonereapers. Their FAQ has very specific errata to make them playable for the new edition.

 

You know, like 4 out of 6 battalion boni grant command points or let you use Command abilities for free once per battle. FAQ added the rule for Bonereapers that they get Relentless Discipline Points instead. The use of those Points is for the whole army, not just for units from one of the battalions. So it's technically even better. Would've been a darn shame if an army had to do without new core mechanics and abilities just because the new edition changed around the faction :^)

Yeah just commenting again to say how wrong this is. OBR cannot use any of the new command abilities at all, and now cannot use any of the same abilities twice per phas. They can no longer shield wall two units of guard, or shield wall + endless duty one unit. They can now only give +3 move to one unit a turn. More RDP is pointless when you have lost the ability to spend it like they used to be able to. OBR is almost certainly one of if not THE biggest loser of this edition change.

[Rors]

Where do people feel Myrmour Banshees are at this edition?
 

I'm hoping they're decent (I have 42 of them haha) as chaff in small units to flood the board and in units of 8 they can help shut down magic and do some damage with the right support. In a meta with way more armour the access to -2 rend also seems good.

[Neck-Romantic]

Imho Myrmourns were a fairly elite choice and too expensive to be considered chaff. Reducing their max size and preventing a full +3 unbind is really disappointing.

Edited July 11, 2021 by Neck-Romantic

[EnixLHQ]

On 7/9/2021 at 5:33 AM, anorek said:

Good points! 2x10 BR would be better, more charge chances.
Cogs were taken as a filler, 50pts left.

20 rasps is a bit small size, for more rasps something additionally needs to go

Back to drawing board

For 50 points consider Suffocating Gravetide. Actually pretty good against horde targets thanks to the recent change to it. Just set it up and fling it at the most numerous unit and it's like a Frightful Touch with that many attacks.

On 7/9/2021 at 5:47 AM, Aeryenn said:

Hi. Is Nighthaunt playable with the new rules or I can keep my ghosts on the shelf until new battletome arrives?

See my next post below this.

7 hours ago, Rors said:

Where do people feel Myrmour Banshees are at this edition?
 

I'm hoping they're decent (I have 42 of them haha) as chaff in small units to flood the board and in units of 8 they can help shut down magic and do some damage with the right support. In a meta with way more armour the access to -2 rend also seems good.

Probably the second-worse off group with the new restriction on unit sizes. They can only be reinforced once, so max 8, no new wounds to compensate for that, but for a +2 unbind within their short range if you do reinforce them. I hate this change, but I can't deny it's balanced for their abilities and damage potential. It's just an 8 wound blob, more than our heroes but less than our units. Should be pretty used managing that.

[EnixLHQ]

My friends and I had planned on playing a 1k game today, but it spontaneously turned into an escalation league event. Starting at 750 points we'll be adding 250 each game until 3k just to get a feel for the rules at each encounter size.

I played one game today at 750 with the following list:

Spoiler

Allegiance: Nighthaunt
- Procession: Emerald Host
- Grand Strategy: Predator's Domain
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Krulghast Cruciator (120) in Battle Regiment
- General
- Command Trait: Ruler of the Spirit Hosts
- Artefact: Midnight Tome - Shademist

Battleline
10 x Grimghast Reapers (155) in Battle Regiment
10 x Grimghast Reapers (155) in Battle Regiment

Units
10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (160) in Battle Regiment
10 x Dreadscythe Harridans (160) in Battle Regiment

Total: 750 / 750
Reinforced Units: 0 / 1
Allies: 0 / 100
Wounds: 46

• Emerald Host for the -1 Save. Put it on a Celestial Hurricanum and it paid dividends when I came to attack it. It took my opponent's advantage with one of the strongest units he could bring and brought it down it a manageable level
• I realize that by taking Emerald Host I don't get the RotSH command trait, but uh, don't worry. It didn't matter.
• Reapers were the heavy lifters, doing the majority of damage hands down
• Sleeper hit in the Harridans, though! Their persistent -1 to hit aura proved to be indispensable. Against a Cities of Sigmar army notorious for their multiple +hit and +wound sources, I often made my opponent swing at his warscroll profiles, negating the bonus he could grant. He had to start stacking them to eke out a +1, but that meant fewer resources on my attack
• KC didn't get to do anything this game. He was killed in the first turn. But despite that the warscroll change to Harridans and both unit types having champions meant that I could carry on without him. Imagine that, Nighthaunt is still capable of fighting without a hero nearby!
• Went all 5 turns. Battle Tactics and Grand Strategy ended up winning the game for me

Some takeaways:

• First, the smaller table size (we played 30x44) meant that a first turn fight was inevitable, and that was a good thing. The game got going right away, and choices felt way more impactful. You saw the results of a good or bad choice almost immediately. This includes my instant regret of putting my KC in harm's way before he was ready and losing him.
• Balance! Yes! Despite me misjudging measurements and getting my hero killed in the opening volley, and playing the entire rest of the game without a hero at all and no ward save, I still went toe-to-toe and came out the winner in the end. It literally went down to the last guys, my Reapers against his Freeguild greatswords, about 4 men each, the fact I got my Battle Tactics completed pretty reliably each round, and achieving my Grand Strat. I feel like I rolled fairly average, and that my opponent did, too.
• Unit champions and command abilities are so important now. Again, no hero, no ward save, no extra command points, no ranged...nothing. But the ability to reliably give my Reapers and Harridans All-out Attack made an incredible difference. It kept my opponent on the back foot, using his CP on All-out Defense or an allegiant CA. I felt like I was a vicious, relentless attacker the whole game, and that felt amazing.
• All the things you can do in your opponent's turn is a really nice way to catch them off guard. We were both used to not getting clocked for our choices in our own turn and it came as a shock when a unit Redeployed or Unleash Hell activated.
• Long live the new pile in rule.
• Can safely say this reignited the love of the game for my friends today. We got through two games, first were my friends and then a second where I took on the winner. Even going slowly, triple-checking the rules each phase, we were able to get through both in decent time. As we get faster and the army size increases, we can still probably get two in each time. This means we all get to play, which made everyone happy.

Edited July 11, 2021 by EnixLHQ

[The_Dudemeister]

13 hours ago, Btimmy said:

This is not true? Unless something new has been released obr cannot use any of the new command abilities. 

That's not what I said. Read my post again.

 

3 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

Long live the new pile in rule.

This! I love it so much. It's an especially great change on flying units. 

One of my favorite changes that NH benefit from more than the average army. Together with heroic recovery testing against bravery... oh man, imagine we would actualy debuff bravery in a meaningful way and make healing borderline impossible for other heroes