AoS 3 - Nighthaunt Discussion

[Nagashfan]

8 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

@Nagashfan

Awesome. 
 

I like PotFW on the Krulghast; that might be the way to go over midnight tome.

Did you feel like you needed the bodyguard for Nagash? And how did the Spirit Hosts do? 

I only had to use the body guard ability in round one where a unit tanked 10 wounds for nagash, so he could have lived and then healed up…. Spirit host did awesome tanking a kraken eater for two rounds before being wiped out only to have nagash and hex one shotted him lady o was worth her points also I love the spell lore of Nighthaunt but think some of it will be nerfed in next book like the cage spell to make them fight last

[JackStreicher]

17 hours ago, lare2 said:

which I agree does see him currently benefit from bodyguard Hex.

I don’t get why people want to abuse a rule that is cleary not intended to work this way and will be FAQed. It‘s like abusing a glitch before it can be fixed while feeling good about it?

[darkdaysdawn]

2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

...a rule that is cleary not intended to work this way and will be FAQed

None of us actually have firsthand knowledge of the intention of said rule (that I'm aware of). Everyone here is speculating.  I think it's "clearly" allowed by the rule as it is currently written. Point is, we don't actually know so there's not really any argument to be had. 

[darkdaysdawn]

5 hours ago, Nagashfan said:

I love the spell lore of Nighthaunt but think some of it will be nerfed in next book like the cage spell to make them fight last

Not unless the Treelord Stomp and Lumineth's double combat activations are also nerfed! 🙂

[Nagashfan]

20 minutes ago, darkdaysdawn said:

Not unless the Treelord Stomp and Lumineth's double combat activations are also nerfed! 🙂

Well I hope we keep it, because In bone daddy’s hands it’s great!!

[JackStreicher]

28 minutes ago, darkdaysdawn said:

None of us actually have firsthand knowledge of the intention of said rule (that I'm aware of). Everyone here is speculating.  I think it's "clearly" allowed by the rule as it is currently written. Point is, we don't actually know so there's not really any argument to be had. 

If you use common sense it is clear that’s an oversight. That’s my last word on this.

[dmorley21]

Not worth arguing. If you’re going to a tourney, ask the TO. If you’re playing to get reps in or just casually, I’d suggest not using it to give your opponent a better game and to have the reps in just in case it changes. 
 

Just my two cents. 

[Honk]

17 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

If you use common sense it is clear that’s an oversight.

🤔 maybe 🤔 

but GDubs has been interesting before and validated imba op 🤷🏿‍♀️
 

communication might be key, before you loose 2/3 of your available opponents (the casual ones)

[Liquidsteel]

22 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

If you use common sense it is clear that’s an oversight. That’s my last word on this.

This comes down to a matter of what type of player you are and what you're looking to get out of a game, it's not for you to decide how it should be played.

If you're looking to take out an event and eek every last drop of "jank" out of your army and the TO allows it then great. Don't begrudge someone "abusing" something, look how Lumineth Foxes turned out!

[EnixLHQ]

Don't pay comments like that any mind. People will always come in to state their opinion as fact, and drag up the RAW over RAI debate over and over again cherry picking the side that benefits them the most in the moment.

It's a form of gatekeeping. Let's not be about that. Ever.

When it comes to fuzzy rules and interactions there are pretty clear ways to resolve it:

-If you are playing an organized event ask the Tournament Organizer for their ruling, preferably before the event. TO's have the ultimate say, or will delegate that final judgement, in a manner that will apply to everyone at the event. TO rulings supercede printed rules, even FAQs and battletome updates.

-If you are playing competitively discuss the rule in question with your opponent before the match. Competitive players tend to use RAW, both positively and negatively, to the letter with FAQs being the sole source of rule changes. But, having an honest conversation about rules that might give you an unfair advantage is good sportsmanship. You might find your opponent is doing the same and you're actually matched.

-If you're playing casually discuss the rules with your opponent. Casual players tend to play RAI, or with caveats or other rule changes for any number of reasons. Value your opponent's time and effort, and do so by discussing where they are in terms of gameplay and how they feel about the rules in question. Settle any disputes with discussion, or failing that, a die roll that determines it for that game. You make better friends and make for better games at this level by being willing to bend, fluff, or ignore some rules to make the experience a positive one for everyone.

-And for anyone who wants to argue the merits to any of the options above, you can always write the FAQ team at AoSFAQ@gwplc.com.

[Neck-Romantic]

Lets hope 2022 brings us a new book and new reasons to dust off the ghosts!

[Rors]

The new teasers 100% confirms there's some form of nighthaunt release incoming.

Looks like another squishy support hero..

[That Guy]

Watch it being another Guardian of Souls. 😂

Edited January 2, 2022 by That Guy

[dmorley21]

3 minutes ago, That Guy said:

Watch it being another Guardian of Souls. 😂

That would actually make sense since the current one isn’t available. 
 

And while I’ll still be surprised if true, it looks like more than one model between the teaser video and rumor engines. 
 

We’ll see. If anything, I’m hopeful because I think the three 3.0 books have all been solid. 

[lare2]

17 hours ago, That Guy said:

Watch it being another Guardian of Souls. 😂

If you could give it a Mortality Glass that would be a welcome surprise. Would appreciate being able to run my Darrakar.

[That Guy]

7 hours ago, lare2 said:

If you could give it a Mortality Glass that would be a welcome surprise. Would appreciate being able to run my Darrakar.

Oh yeah for sure. But i'd rather see more units which aren't a hero for once. The whole get a hero, some dice, some cards and a tome combo. It's effective to quickly update armies, but it's getting a little bit old. Where are the days where we could expect a nice update to our range. They do occasionally like with Kruleboyz, Lumineth and such, but i'd like to see it a bit more, especially if they are already running FAQ's, Tome updates through White Dwarf and now the Battlescrolls. I feel with frequent updates like that, they can slow down full battletome releases and focus on a wider range update for an army again. I'm also not talking about bringing an entire army size of units to factions, but more in the range of like 3 new kits and for even bigger releases maybe up to 5. Like I said, the current way of releases just feels like it's a quick way to update armies, but to me personally it also feels like a dishonest treatment at times. For example when your friend is collecting Lumineth, they get an amazing second wave, while if you are a Nurgle collector, take this 1 hero and off with ya, while we know that that range can still use some more revamped models(looking at you Epidemius). It just doesn't feel right to me.

[Rors]

I would have thought that with each season they'd focus on releases that are on theme. With this being the 'monster' season I would have thought an extra monster with each release would be a good way to go. Especially for nighthaunt since they're very lacking in this area.

[EnixLHQ]

What I'd like to see with a new battletome would be an update to the Hexwaiths models, first and foremost. Our entire line needs to be brought up to the same aesthetic standard.

On the same note, this should be used as an opportunity to make the entire line available to purchase in various forms without having to get dual-army boxes or other sales gimmicks from 2.0 that don't exist or make sense anymore.

If we do get a monster, I sincerely hope it's not another centerpiece model. We have so many; The Black Coach, Lady Olynder, Kurdoss, and Reikenor are all ornate eyecatchers. I wouldn't want something to compete with them, since we already have so few reasons to put them on the table. If it's an update to the Mourngul, both as a model aesthetic and new rules as a part of pulling it fully and officially into it main force, I'd be happy enough. With rules to bring it in line with other monsters in the game it would do wonders, and if it had to be beefed up or gothiced out visually to match, bring it on.

If the reveal is a whole new monster, then I kind of hope it comes as a replacement for the Mourngul and it becomes legacy. I think that would be the only way it would fit with the army without pulling the strings on the dynamic of the rest of the models too much.

[dmorley21]

8 hours ago, That Guy said:

Oh yeah for sure. But i'd rather see more units which aren't a hero for once. The whole get a hero, some dice, some cards and a tome combo. It's effective to quickly update armies, but it's getting a little bit old. Where are the days where we could expect a nice update to our range. 

I've played Warhammer since the 90's and that's literally never been the case. Back then it was, if there wasn't a new range for a book, your faction just got ignored. I much prefer the way it is today with 5-10 books a year, some big updates and some just a new hero along with a new battletome. 

4 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

What I'd like to see with a new battletome would be an update to the Hexwaiths models, first and foremost. Our entire line needs to be brought up to the same aesthetic standard.

On the same note, this should be used as an opportunity to make the entire line available to purchase in various forms without having to get dual-army boxes or other sales gimmicks from 2.0 that don't exist or make sense anymore.

If we do get a monster, I sincerely hope it's not another centerpiece model. We have so many; The Black Coach, Lady Olynder, Kurdoss, and Reikenor are all ornate eyecatchers. I wouldn't want something to compete with them, since we already have so few reasons to put them on the table. If it's an update to the Mourngul, both as a model aesthetic and new rules as a part of pulling it fully and officially into it main force, I'd be happy enough. With rules to bring it in line with other monsters in the game it would do wonders, and if it had to be beefed up or gothiced out visually to match, bring it on.

If the reveal is a whole new monster, then I kind of hope it comes as a replacement for the Mourngul and it becomes legacy. I think that would be the only way it would fit with the army without pulling the strings on the dynamic of the rest of the models too much.

New Hexwraith models would be great, though with it being a dual kit for another faction I'm not sure how they would go about doing that. I also expect a sprue of the heroes from Soul Wars that you can't get elsewhere. 

I do disagree about centerpieces though. While Olynder, Reikenor, and Kurdoss are all great models; I don't think they're centerpieces and I don't think GW views them that way either. Just look at the price point. The Black Coach very much is a centerpiece and I'm really hoping for better rules for it. I'm building a Stormcast force right now, so a comparison is that I and many people love the Bastian Carthalos model but he's not a true army centerpiece the way the dragons are. 

I'm also more likely to bring Olynder (with current rules) if I'm also bringing one (or both!) of Nagash and/or Mannfred right now. I just find that she works better as a second threat and not the focal point of my forces. 

As for what we're getting, I'm guessing it'll be revealed at LVO, which is the end of January. I'm also guessing that we're either getting a significant behemoth hero (the ghost boat idea seems to fit for me... it could be a defensive/resurrecting centerpiece while the Black Coach gets new rules to become a more offensive centerpiece) or multiple new heroes. I haven't seen anything that tells me we're getting new units yet, but we could be surprised! 

I'm also planning to bring a Nagash ghost list to a 2-day event the first weekend of February - so hopefully I'll be getting in more reps with him soon! 

[That Guy]

12 hours ago, Rors said:

I would have thought that with each season they'd focus on releases that are on theme. 

Absolutely! Although we must also admit, current "bigger releases" all include big stuff. See Stormcast Dragons, Kruleboyz with a lot of big stuff (although the trolls are somehow not monsters). I would love to see more of it though. As much as i like seeing numerous units in an army. Big models not only make an impact in the gameplay, but are also solid eyecandy.

8 hours ago, EnixLHQ said:

If the reveal is a whole new monster, then I kind of hope it comes as a replacement for the Mourngul and it becomes legacy. I think that would be the only way it would fit with the army without pulling the strings on the dynamic of the rest of the models too much.

4 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

I'm also guessing that we're either getting a significant behemoth hero (the ghost boat idea seems to fit for me... it could be a defensive/resurrecting centerpiece while the Black Coach gets new rules to become a more offensive centerpiece) or multiple new heroes. I haven't seen anything that tells me we're getting new units yet, but we could be surprised! 

Something along the lines of how a Mortis Engine looks like aesthetically, but with some serious punch, as dmorley21 says, I'd also... REALLY like the idea of a haunted ship. The question is will that get paired with a pirate theme? And if so, perhaps that will be a new sub faction focus entirely. Some ghostly cannonballs to add some shooting to the army would be nice for example. Of course it could also be a utility piece. Perhaps some ghosts can garrison it. 

4 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

New Hexwraith models would be great, though with it being a dual kit for another faction I'm not sure how they would go about doing that. I also expect a sprue of the heroes from Soul Wars that you can't get elsewhere. 

It's just strange we still have these remnant kits from fantasy. I fully expect them to replace the kits and give Soulblight a new Black Knight kit, while giving Nighthaunt a new Hexwraith kit. It's just weird to have a kit that goes across multiple factions. Now not referring to a kit like Nagash of course, but more the hexwraith/black knight idea, but than again... Nurgle still has Epidemius. Sometimes I wonder what they're thinking when picking models to be updated / adding new characters. 

4 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

I've played Warhammer since the 90's and that's literally never been the case. Back then it was, if there wasn't a new range for a book, your faction just got ignored. I much prefer the way it is today with 5-10 books a year, some big updates and some just a new hero along with a new battletome. 

I should've been a bit more specific indeed. I was referring to the 8th edition of Fantasy around the End Times era. Releases that Lizardmen received and Wood Elves, were very nice additions for example.

Edited January 3, 2022 by That Guy

[EnixLHQ]

6 hours ago, dmorley21 said:

I do disagree about centerpieces though. While Olynder, Reikenor, and Kurdoss are all great models; I don't think they're centerpieces and I don't think GW views them that way either.

I don't mean centerpieces as in "build your army around this," but as "look at this very ornate and intricate model. We have more of those than the average army. And I'd be worried if the future of NH was a shift away from that aesthetic and instead generically designed future heroes for the sake of eye-catching monsters.

In other words, monsters are the thing right now. They won't be forever. And we might not even get a monster that really changes anything for us like it being a better draw than Mannfred or Nagash. I'd really hate for GW to shove big $ and big point value models at us and neglect the army that supports them.

[dmorley21]

@EnixLHQ

Gotcha. I’m expecting a lot of the army to change significantly in terms of rules honestly. Stuff changed pretty significantly for Stormcast, Ironjawz, Bonesplitterz, and Nurgle if I’m not mistaken. 

[Rors]

For playability the army needs a huge overhaul of it's rules. New models would just be nice and generally there's one or two because that's a core part of GWs marketing strategy.

 

[Neck-Romantic]

Precisely. I would rather have a completely and competantly redesigned, useable Battletome than any new models whatsoever.

 

Dont get me wrong; gimmie new models too, but Ive had issues with our strangely written Tome since it was released

Edited January 5, 2022 by Neck-Romantic

[Sception]

The nighthaunt range is mostly quite solid.  Could use a new monster, & new kits for the units previously only available from soul wars, but apart from that no huge gaps or problem kits.

But yeah, the rules need a major overhaul, and not just the faction rules, the warscrolls as well.