AoS 3rd - Idoneth Deepkin discussion

[HollowHills]

Discussion of Idoneth Deepkin in AoS 3rd Edition.

[HollowHills]

So since Volturnos CA change I'm playing around with Tidecaster reverse tide lists. Basically taking Fuethan as the enclave to get the turn 1 run and charge going into strike first on turn 2.

The main downside is having to take 3 nemarti units as battleline, but I feel like reavers can work well as a screen and even offer a little bit of damage with unleash hell. A single unit of thralls could be decent too, but the question being how you get them where they need to go.

[DocKeule]

I had a similar idea in the old thread but after calculating some lists I don't think this is a good trade off. You sacrifice a lot of you mobility and (depending on which units you leave out for the Namarti) hitting or staying-power for getting your high tide a round earlier. 

[Orchid89]

I managed to get 2 of the Broken Realms IDK boxes before they went out of stock to start a 1000 point IDK army in AoS3, I love their aesthetic.

Volturnos, High King of the Deep (260)
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (125)
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (125)
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (125)
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (195)
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)
Total: 985 / 1000

(I love sharks)

if I ever decide to play 1500 I could add Leviadon or Eidolon + 1 shark.
if I ever decide to play 2000 I could add Leviadon + Eidolon + 1 shark + 3 Ishlaen Guard.

Probably not very competitive but I think it would look stunning.

 

Edited July 8, 2021 by Orchid89

[baiardo]

What kind of list do you think is good now?

 

Edited July 9, 2021 by baiardo

[Siorra]

Me and some friends met up for some AoS3 practice over the weekend. I managed to fit 2 games in while we collectively poured over the new rules. I played the following lists:

Managed to fit the first into the 1 drop battalion and the second was 2 drops (put the Morrsarr separately with the Soulscryer in the sea). I didn't manage to play a lot of Deepkin in AoS2, started collecting them shortly before it all happened, but I managed to win both games, though both opponents weren't playing mega competitive lists. A few take-aways I found:

• The Leviadon still feels worth the points. Reverberating Carapace really helped to keep the buffs managed, too. Coupled with Ishlaen, I was regularly having 2+/3+ unrendable eels tying units up (and hitting respectably back, too).
• The Eidolon of the Storm is great in the new edition. His +1 wound aura made a lot of the akhelians 2+ rr1's against monsters, it's so reliable. He's a great hero to use heroic actions with, too. And if he really gets into too much trouble, just pop the cloud of midnight.
• But I'd say the strongest thing we have right now is the net on the sharks. The new coherency rules make it oppressive. Netting units of 10+, sticking a hard hitting model (Leviadon or Eidolon) right on the end of the unit and just going all out while only being hit back by 1 or 2 models is probably a bad experience for your opponent, but great for us. I even managed to net a large unit, charge a hero with morrsarr and tag the big unit within 3", keeping them in combat with no retaliation.

All in all, based off those 2 games (which isn't much to go off, I know) I think we're in a good spot with Akhelian lists, but I fear the new edition will just drive us further from Namarti. I would love to hear what others are running, and to see if people are feeling the same about the Eidolon and Leviadon.

[BadDice0809]

New IDK player here. Out of curiosity are they any good alternative models for IDK, specifically the allopex?

I want my Anvil character riding a shark (a hammerhead if I can find the model). I was just wondering if anyone knew of any options.

Thanks for the time

[baiardo]

@Siorra Which faction did your friends play with?

Without cloud of midnight the turtle is more valuable but would you like to play two of them?

[DocKeule]

21 hours ago, Siorra said:

The Eidolon of the Storm is great in the new edition. His +1 wound aura made a lot of the akhelians 2+ rr1's against monsters, it's so reliable. He's a great hero to use heroic actions with, too. And if he really gets into too much trouble, just pop the cloud of midnight.

My experience with Stormy is kind of a mixed bag. The +1 to wound aura is great if the placement with other units works out. But he himself? The spear looks devastating on paper on the charge but to me it did very little when I used this model so far. Usually (despite the odds) at least 2/3 of the attacks either don't hit or wound. 

 

 

15 hours ago, baiardo said:

Without cloud of midnight the turtle is more valuable but would you like to play two of them?

I just bought a second turtle. The output is OK and with two of them you have an easier time having two flanks operating separately from each other and have most if not all units in one of the +1 save bubbles.

[Siorra]

On 7/9/2021 at 9:48 PM, baiardo said:

@Siorra Which faction did your friends play with?

Without cloud of midnight the turtle is more valuable but would you like to play two of them?

Nighthaunt and a Coalesced Seraphon "monster mash" list. Both of which have elements that weaken us (ignore rend, -1 damage) and strengthen us (hordes to net, rr wounds to monsters with Dhom-hain). But they were ultimately friendly games where we were relearning, and both were close.

 

On 7/10/2021 at 1:07 PM, DocKeule said:

My experience with Stormy is kind of a mixed bag. The +1 to wound aura is great if the placement with other units works out. But he himself? The spear looks devastating on paper on the charge but to me it did very little when I used this model so far. Usually (despite the odds) at least 2/3 of the attacks either don't hit or wound. 

Might be time to look at some new dice that aren't weighted for 1s! 5x 2+/2+/-2/3 attacks, plus his other melee profiles should easily do 10+ wounds per charge. Plus he heals loads and with the cloak, people want to deal with him but struggle to work out how. I really rate him. 👍

[DocKeule]

It's 3+ 2+ unless you attack the enemy hero with a wound characteristic below 8 you can chose.

On average that is 2-3 wounding attacks from the spear. My experience (sometimes with debuffs from enemie abilities sometimes vanilla) have been less than stunning compared to a Leviadon or a pair of sharks.

 

[LJ26]

New player question. If you include allies the enemy can target the allies first and by pass forgotten nightmares correct? 

Edited July 15, 2021 by LJ26

[DocKeule]

Yes. Forgotten nightmares only applies to the IDK themselves. 

[baiardo]

What list do you want to play against archaon+be'lakor and what kind of strategy you want to set?

Edited July 16, 2021 by baiardo

[azdimy]

I ve found that a heavy Akhelian list in Dhom Hain is still really strong in this monster meta. Volturnos is still worth bringing IMO despite the CA now limited to +1A. Select 3 units of eels and turn them into killing machines when they also benefit from high tide. Idk can easily mitigate unleash hell thanks to our forgotten nightmare ability

With a heavy eel list and them being battleline the grand strategy hold the line is almost guaranteed 

Really happy with how the list plays so far

[Rhetoric]

On 7/16/2021 at 9:36 AM, azdimy said:

I ve found that a heavy Akhelian list in Dhom Hain is still really strong in this monster meta. Volturnos is still worth bringing IMO despite the CA now limited to +1A. Select 3 units of eels and turn them into killing machines when they also benefit from high tide. Idk can easily mitigate unleash hell thanks to our forgotten nightmare ability

With a heavy eel list and them being battleline the grand strategy hold the line is almost guaranteed 

Really happy with how the list plays so far

I played my Dhom Hain list yesterday and IDK did not miss a beat going into the new edition.  I played The Vice (awesome battle plan) and turn 4 retreat/charge was amazing to get from my opponents objectiveS back to the center on turn 4.  I sent two units of Morrsarr and hit one of them with All Out Attack and plus RR1’s on the charge, the 3 man units of Morrsarr were able to clear enemy units on the objectives or kill enough off to gain control very easily.  With their blasts, they were kicking out around 15 wounds on the charge.  I lost my Leviadon early to a super lucky Dice roll from my opponent and could not win a single priority, but I clawed back.  I haven’t tried a six block of Morrsarr, but I’m curious how that plays over MSU units and Rally might be amazing on a six man unit.  

[Adeeb]

Has anyone seen the Honest Wargamer IDK faction focus for 3.0? They rated reavers very highly as the biggest winner coming into the new edition. Anyone have experience using them in the new edition? 

[mmimzie]

3 hours ago, Adeeb said:

Has anyone seen the Honest Wargamer IDK faction focus for 3.0? They rated reavers very highly as the biggest winner coming into the new edition. Anyone have experience using them in the new edition? 

No experience here but they look strong. I think the other commentator was one of those folks that never liked eels too much.  That said I think reevers certainly have a place now in 30man blocks.  But they force you to really commit to them. They force your general which also forces 2 none eel battle line. So basicly you are buying a 2nd aspect of the storm that isn't the aspect of the storm. So it almost make you want to have 2 blocks of 30, and at that point the list is writing itself. 

 

Also think the second block of 30 lose milage as you can't all out attack both, and you may struggle getting all 60 in on the same target. Also is kind of normal with Deepkin you have magic vulnerability. 

 

That said I think the list has HUGE power projection and is a great in the shooting meta. Having the power to leverage shooting power, but the nature IDK defences against shooting. It's quite strong. 

 

4 hours ago, Rhetoric said:

.  I lost my Leviadon early to a super lucky Dice roll from my opponent and could not win a single priority, but I clawed back.  I haven’t tried a six block of Morrsarr, but I’m curious how that plays over MSU units and Rally might be amazing on a six man unit.  

How did. The turtle die? 

I feel 6 eels have the benefits of young all out attack all game letting you get hitting and wounding on 2s all game. It's that vs the one extra attack on extra prince?? And the ability to split your mortal wound discharge. That said 6 let's you start to leverage rally. I think the downside here is your likely spending an extra cp every turn. Which could get costly. 

You'll also lose attack until one dies as corherency will be a thing. So it might be like -3 attacks spear attacks and maybe -2 eels attacking. So definitely a damage hit.

Only concern for us in the current meta is the same we usually have which is magic vulnerability killing key pieces. 

 

 

 

Edited July 18, 2021 by mmimzie

[Rhetoric]

1 hour ago, mmimzie said:

No experience here but they look strong. I think the other commentator was one of those folks that never liked eels too much.  That said I think reevers certainly have a place now in 30man blocks.  But they force you to really commit to them. They force your general which also forces 2 none eel battle line. So basicly you are buying a 2nd aspect of the storm that isn't the aspect of the storm. So it almost make you want to have 2 blocks of 30, and at that point the list is writing itself. 

 

Also think the second block of 30 lose milage as you can't all out attack both, and you may struggle getting all 60 in on the same target. Also is kind of normal with Deepkin you have magic vulnerability. 

 

That said I think the list has HUGE power projection and is a great in the shooting meta. Having the power to leverage shooting power, but the nature IDK defences against shooting. It's quite strong. 

 

How did. The turtle die? 

I feel 6 eels have the benefits of young all out attack all game letting you get hitting and wounding on 2s all game. It's that vs the one extra attack on extra prince?? And the ability to split your mortal wound discharge. That said 6 let's you start to leverage rally. I think the downside here is your likely spending an extra cp every turn. Which could get costly. 

You'll also lose attack until one dies as corherency will be a thing. So it might be like -3 attacks spear attacks and maybe -2 eels attacking. So definitely a damage hit.

Only concern for us in the current meta is the same we usually have which is magic vulnerability killing key pieces. 

 

 

 

The main difference is running 6 versus two squads of 3.  So you have two units to move around the board versus one is my main concern.  
 

im not sure on the name of the artifact, but my opponent was using a lord celestant on Star drake with the D6 mortal wounds on hit rolls of 6 and he did 12 mortal wounds, plus a few more MW from the Star drakes rain of stars or whatever.  

[azdimy]

12 hours ago, Rhetoric said:

 I haven’t tried a six block of Morrsarr, but I’m curious how that plays over MSU units and Rally might be amazing on a six man unit.  

My experience with 6 morrsarrs is that they are fantastic in this edition. You lose a few maw attacks while in 6 but with all the other profiles being 2", that s it. Once you lose a single eel, you re back to not having to worry about the new coherency rule

[HollowHills]

Got my first 2k event of the new edition  coming up soon.

Can I get some thoughts on my list?

Allegiance: Idoneth Deepkin
 - Enclave: Dhom-Hain
 - Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
 - Triumphs: Inspired
LEADERS
Volturnos, High King of the Deep (260) in Battle Regiment
- General
Isharann Soulscryer (140) in Battle Regiment
- Universal Prayer Scripture: Heal
UNITS
3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155) in Battle Regiment
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (195) in Hunters of the Heartlands
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (195) in Hunters of the Heartlands
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (125) in Battle Regiment
- Retarius Net Launcher
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (195) in Battle Regiment
3 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (195) in Hunters of the Heartlands
1 x Akhelian Allopexes (125) in Battle Regiment
- Retarius Net Launcher
BEHEMOTHS
Akhelian Leviadon (380) in Battle Regiment
CORE BATTALIONS
Battle Regiment
Hunters of the Heartlands

[Sonnenspeer]

Im playing with the Idea of

Hammer:a tanky generic king (because you want your general alive for the extra CPs), born from Argony 2extra wounds an 5++ amulet, storm eidolon for +1 to Wound,. Spear eels

Anvil: 30 reavers for stand and shoot, turtle, tanky eels and sharks 

Does that fit into one List?

Edited July 22, 2021 by Sonnenspeer

[Siorra]

1 hour ago, Sonnenspeer said:

Im playing with the Idea of

Hammer:a tanky generic king (because you want your general alive for the extra CPs), born from Argony 2extra wounds an 5++ amulet, storm eidolon for +1 to Wound,. Spear eels

Anvil: 30 reavers for stand and shoot, turtle, tanky eels and sharks 

Does that fit into one List?

Not really for a few reasons: a block of 30 Reavers require them to be battleline, they're only battleline if you have an Isharann general. If you wanted to do that, you'd then need 2 more lots of Namarti battleline, which means you can't have the Born from Agony King and you'd be well over the 2k budget to fit the rest in.

Change it to a 20 block of Reavers and you might have something, however.

[mmimzie]

I'm thinking of jumping back into the game and putting together a list to build and paint toward. 

@Siorra and @Sonnenspeer i was actrualy thinking of a list just like this i like the large mix of units you get access to in this. 

Eidolon of Mathlann, Aspect of the Storm (330)

Akhelian King (230) - General - Bladed Polearm

Isharann Tidecaster (105)

UNITS

20 x Namarti Reavers (230)

3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)

3 x Akhelian Ishlaen Guard (155)

6 x Akhelian Morrsarr Guard (390)

BEHEMOTHS

Akhelian Leviadon (380)

1975


I was wondering how reasonable this looks?? I think it packs a lot of punch in different areas of the game. I don't yet know grand stratagems and artifact i want to use for this. Or even command traits that would be good. So any help would rock. I wish i should get an aspect of the sea in there. I think he kinda sucks, but i like big models LMAO!! Plus the +3 bravery lets you ignore battle shock on the eels for hte most part, and also lets the aspects auto heal ever turn with out fail. Plus i like the magic protection and preasure. 

Thinking maybe arcane tome on the storm for flaming weapon. 

Could drop the spear eels for 3 ishlaen to sneak in the aspect of the sea, but wonder if i'd lack to much on punch??

Edit: or replace the morrsarr with ishlaen and some sharks. They'd make a decent target for king buff?

Edited July 23, 2021 by mmimzie

[DocKeule]

23 hours ago, Siorra said:

Change it to a 20 block of Reavers and you might have something, however.

I am still not really sold on this "Reavers use unleash hell" strategy although it comes up in a lot pf places now.

Im mean sure, under optimal circumstances (which I think would have to be: Reavers in range of Lotann and the Eidolon of the Storm and the enemy be in range of the Leviadon bubble) we would have 3+ 3+ and should get 27 wounding hits (with no rend though) out of 20 Reavers (with the target being within 9"). That's nothing to sneeze at. But you need a lot pof support to make it happen. We are would be talking about 1015 points concentrated on a rather small part of the table to make that happen. 

Unsupported we would be down to 15 wounding hits in a regular setting and 10 with unleash hell within 9" or 5 wounding hits in general and 3-4 with unleash hell on more than 9". And that is nothing to write home about.