AoS3 - Kruleboyz Discussion

[Arzalyn]

2 hours ago, W1tchhunter said:

Gosh this thread has died a bit... Kruleboyz not doing well huh haha. 

I found a leviadon boxed up in my closet, reckon I can orcyfy it for the krulest of Boyz?

I think it died a bit after the army was "solved" since we don't have much build options other than spamming boltboyz in Big-Yellers or trying to make Gutrippaz work in Grinning Blades. Until they give us another battleline option or we see  good points drops on the Gutrippaz I doubt we gonna see much discussion about lists here...

Also we got a new thread on the Warclans sub forum, so more recent movement migrated to that thread.

About the Leviadon, It could make a cool Sludgeraker or even a Vulcha!

Edited March 6, 2022 by Arzalyn

[NauticalSoup]

19 hours ago, W1tchhunter said:

Gosh this thread has died a bit... Kruleboyz not doing well huh haha. 

I think despite the relatively good starting range the army just doesn't lend itself to many interesting builds. Too many units are either support units or ineffective on their own. There's basically The List with boltboyz and very little incentive to diverge from it, and that list feels relatively mediocre next to basically any combination of Ironjawz a couple pages over.

One of the best performing lists recently was just basically just 18 boltboyz, 3 shamans, and kragnos. Kinda shows you were the internal balance skews.

[Sangfroid]

I went 4-1 with them to get second in a local 14 man event (I beat the person who came first but they won on more battle tactics done across the 5 games with 2 more) was a lot of fun and is a list I’ve been using for a while. I find it’s quite tactical to play and a lot of fun too. 
 

game 1 was v Glottkin and blight kings, game 2 Archaon and Varanguard (this was my loss a breakaboss needed to take 2 wounds off a varanguard and fluffed it 🙂)game 3 living cities (Fulminators, storm drakes and phoneix guard) game 4 LRL 3x mountains list (The eventual winner) game 4 a rematch against the living cities chap. 
 

list is 

snatchaboss, Egomaniak, morks eye pebble

breakaboss, fast un 

swampcalla shaman, choking mist

gobsprakk the mouth of mork

3x10 gutrippaz 

9 manskewer boltboyz

marshcrawler sloggoth

purple sun (Becasue it’s painted ideal would be spell portals) 

battle regiment for a 3 drop army (Breakaboss and gobsprakk out of the formation) 

=2000 exactly 

all of the games were down to the wire and could have gone either way at the end for 3 of them so could have been 5-0 or 3-2 which is one of the problems I think with KB they are very glass canon and a bad priority or a spike in lucky and they suffer

[Abstract_duck]

1 hour ago, Sangfroid said:

 

all of the games were down to the wire and could have gone either way at the end for 3 of them so could have been 5-0 or 3-2 which is one of the problems I think with KB they are very glass canon and a bad priority or a spike in lucky and they suffer

How was the Marschcrawler for you? 

Anyways, it sounds like part of the fun of Kruleboyz; your choices matter a lot! 

[novakai]

43% win rate is ouch, I think the army is a bit complicated to play and take time to master but also mastering it in the end may not net you result in the end against more complete armies.

[NauticalSoup]

I think being reliant on a very expensive, very fragile, middling range shooting unit with equally fragile expensive support pieces is a big pain point with the army. It's the exact sort of list that the best armies in the game right now rip through like tissue paper. And any build other than boltboyz doesn't really seem to get there, it just doesn't have sufficiently strong options for the combat phase to compete with the top table bruisers. Everything's a little too soft offensively, a little too fragile, a little too expensive.

This may change going forward if more 3.0 books turn out to be mostly blanket nerfs lol

[W1tchhunter]

1 hour ago, NauticalSoup said:

I think being reliant on a very expensive, very fragile, middling range shooting unit with equally fragile expensive support pieces is a big pain point with the army. It's the exact sort of list that the best armies in the game right now rip through like tissue paper. And any build other than boltboyz doesn't really seem to get there, it just doesn't have sufficiently strong options for the combat phase to compete with the top table bruisers. Everything's a little too soft offensively, a little too fragile, a little too expensive.

This may change going forward if more 3.0 books turn out to be mostly blanket nerfs lol

Dunno about that Idoneth look absolutely insane with their 3.0 book

[NauticalSoup]

30 minutes ago, W1tchhunter said:

Dunno about that Idoneth look absolutely insane with their 3.0 book

Seems like the usual brand of terrible internal balance a la SDG. Fyreslayers came out at the same time to a resounding 'meh' so I'm not ready to call power creep.

[W1tchhunter]

I am still using the same army I posted a while ago, with the arachnarok ally. I am at a tournament with it at the end of the month.

[PlasticCraic]

It's a shame the subfactions are so poor, because that's where a lot of the listbuilding variety can come in with other armies.  That and the Battleline situation put a bit of a ceiling on how much fun you can have mucking around with Kruleboyz lists.

They need a full suite of new subfactions, anti-shooting tech that's fit for purpose ("cannot be targeted" instead of "is not visible to"), a new Battleline cavalry option, and points drops on Gutrippaz to revitalise the army.  Only that last one is even remotely likely in the foreseeable future, but right now I'd settle for it.

[PlasticCraic]

Glad to hear the army's going well for you @Sangfroid and cool to see someone running Gobby!

Have you found that one Shaman is enough?

[PlasticCraic]

FWIW if I was to run the KB at an event this weekend, my list would probably look like this:

Allegiance: Kruleboyz
- Warclan: Big Yellers
- Grand Strategy: Hold the Line
- Triumphs: Inspired

Leaders
Snatchaboss on Sludgeraker Beast (315)*
- General
- Command Trait: Egomaniak
- Artefact: Mork's Eye Pebble
- Mount Trait: Fast 'Un
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)*
- Lore of the Swamp: Choking Mist
Swampcalla Shaman with Pot-grot (105)*
- Lore of the Swamp: Nasty Hex
Killaboss on Great Gnashtoof (170)

Battleline
9 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (360)*
- Reinforced x 2
20 x Gutrippaz (360)*
- Reinforced x 1
20 x Gutrippaz (360)*
- Reinforced x 1
3 x Man-skewer Boltboyz (120)*

Units
10 x Hobgrot Slittaz (80)*

Core Battalions
*Battle Regiment

Total: 1975 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 4 / 4
Allies: 0 / 400
Wounds: 150
Drops: 2
 

You could easily chuck the Trogg in there (especially with Supa Sneaky), but I think you need that Battleshock protection more with this build unfortunately. 

I'm pretty open minded on Grand Strategies, which ones have been working for you guys?

[Rachmani]

That’s really quite funny, as I think that Kruleboys have one of the best starting ranges of the last few years. It just feels like they forgot 1-3 units to differentiate the playstyle. (Hobgrot cav, gutrippa cav & a cheap, nonhero monster).

[Arzalyn]

Just a heads up that we got a orruk warclans sub forum some months ago and a  new kuleboyz thread there.

 

[NauticalSoup]

They need like a way to bring hobgrots as battleline. Maybe combined with an actually rewarding monster allegiance. That would give you a reason to dip outside of boltboy spam.

[woolf]

I think the issue is just that Gutrippaz are too crappy for their points, they only work when buffed but those buffs can also be used (more efficiently) on boltboyz. Given the model range, what would be an ideal situation? probably a scenario where a good list includes 1-3 gutrippa units, 1-3 boltboyz unit, some hob grot screens and then some combination of heroes/monsters. Thats basically the whole range

for that to work we need to find a place where Gutrippaz make sense, so basically just drop their points down to 140 or so (where they provide good point value per wound at least) and we are done, boom! balanced book! (but yeah this horse is beaten more dead than nagash himself at this point 😂)

and ps I would be less "worried" about Gutrippa spam becoming too much of a thing as they still don't do a lot of output, sure they have a decent amount of MW output but only if buffed so by definition you will need to include other pieces (e.g 2 shamans + sludgeraker is already "preventing" a pure spam list by soaking up ca 500pts), and also the buffs are finnicky enough to not be easily spammed, i.e. poision not working in combat, sludgeraker being an aura so cant easily spread out units etc. Hence you would probably still want to bring some boltboyz which then gives us variety in list. 

[Arzalyn]

4 minutes ago, woolf said:

I think the issue is just that Gutrippaz are too crappy for their points, they only work when buffed but those buffs can also be used (more efficiently) on boltboyz. Given the model range, what would be an ideal situation? probably a scenario where a good list includes 1-3 gutrippa units, 1-3 boltboyz unit, some hob grot screens and then some combination of heroes/monsters. Thats basically the whole range

for that to work we need to find a place where Gutrippaz make sense, so basically just drop their points down to 140 or so (where they provide good point value per wound at least) and we are done, boom! balanced book! (but yeah this horse is beaten more dead than nagash himself at this point 😂)

and ps I would be less "worried" about Gutrippa spam becoming too much of a thing as they still don't do a lot of output, sure they have a decent amount of MW output but only if buffed so by definition you will need to include other pieces (e.g 2 shamans + sludgeraker is already "preventing" a pure spam list by soaking up ca 500pts), and also the buffs are finnicky enough to not be easily spammed, i.e. poision not working in combat, sludgeraker being an aura so cant easily spread out units etc. Hence you would probably still want to bring some boltboyz which then gives us variety in list. 

There is so many small changes that they could make to make the army more interesting, mostly taking some of the restrictions that favor the boltboyz...

Some ideas other than reducing our points or making other units battleline:

- Make the Gutrippaz Scare Taktikz work in combat. You already have to roll over the unit bravery characteristic, do we really need even more restrictions? 

- Change de Sloggoth drum buff to something more useful, like a +1 to charge or something like that. +1 to hit is of little use when most of your damage come from our VeW allegiance.

- Let the shaman buff units while  they are in combat. It would make Gutrippaz slight better to build around as you and make the +1 save have more utility.

[novakai]

It funny that grinnin’ blade is about having stronger shaman in the lore but the rule has nothing to do with spellcasting 

I think for Skullbugz they should give you sludgeraker as battleline like how that Fyreslayer lodge does it. It at least make the option more fun to play as

a lot of changes can be also made with abilities I am just unsure if anything will significantly change due to how stubborn GW can be with updates

 

[woolf]

12 minutes ago, novakai said:

a lot of changes can be also made with abilities I am just unsure if anything will significantly change due to how stubborn GW can be with updates

 

yep so significant points drop in Gutrippaz is likely our best chances... I would however love a better solution where they are buffed to actually motivate the cost..

[Arzalyn]

25 minutes ago, woolf said:

yep so significant points drop in Gutrippaz is likely our best chances... I would however love a better solution where they are buffed to actually motivate the cost..

Maybe we are luck and they give us a White Dwarf update or something like that at the end of this year/next year. Other than that, yeah, point is the most probable.

[Sangfroid]

Hey guys, @Abstract_duck the marshcrawler is actually not bad for 150 pts his main role is to stand close to snatchaboss so I can bounce the egomaniak wounds on to him (Then hope to heal some back) he is also great for buffing the breakaboss, snatchaboss and vulcha attacks as these guys do nicely benefit from the +1 to hit. Lastly he can tank a few things if needed and his snipe is pretty usefull too now with command points. A bit niche but people sometimes get sloppy with character placement and if you snipe out the champ then no command abilities unless in range of another hero. If he also got VW then would be very good for 150 I think (Weird why the whole army doesn’t just get it it!) 

 

@PlasticCraic yes 1 is fine the 9 bolt boyz and him try to find a piece of terrain and hold it while I pray for 2 4+ for covered in mud rolls. If he isn’t buffing the boltboyz then I buff the snatchaboss (or gobsprakk) the 5+ VW on him is better than on the gutrippaz with 21a you might get 3 or 4 extra mortals but on snatchaboss if over average spike then each one does 3,2 or d3+3 mortals. Gobsprakk buffed is decent too I never really throw him into something stupid tough unless I have too but because of VW does often come thru for me, in fact he is probably tied with breakaboss for mvp most battles. Such a cool set of rules and toolkit on him. I think the shaman is great but also a bit of a trap and is perfect distraction piece to get the enemy to waste a load of time killing a 6 wound dude worth only 105 pts. 
 

I play quite defensively with the army im trying to manoeuvre the 2x10 gutrippaz, snatchaboss and breakaboss into combat at once with the middle of the enemies army then waaagh and thats when the gutrippaz shine 42 attacks 6s do 2 mortals so probably 4-12 per unit in reality. Add in snatchaboss and a angry troll who I’ve bopped on the head (2s to hit thanks to marshcrawler and 2s to wound from heroic action) and that’s some decent output.  It means playing cadgey and aiming for t3 fight but that’s fine by me and this is where the boltboyz shine, if they don’t commit then I can score VPs and shoot them from afar and not die, if they do commit they can only really nibble the sides and kill gutrippaz because if they charge my snatchaboss and don’t kill him with 1 activation I get to waaagh back at them and do what I wanted too anyway.  Also if they just try to take me apart piecemeal and can’t get to archers then I just get to shoot them from close range which is even better!
 

I played a SBGL army where he charged 3 units of blood knights and radukar in to my sneaky-bois-howling-castle and did 8 damage to my snatchaboss, I then waaagh’d and killed 13 of the Blood knights before they could do anything. 
 

They are  a spikey army but that’s half the fun right 🙂

 

 

[Arzalyn]

On 3/7/2022 at 1:56 PM, Sangfroid said:

list is 

snatchaboss, Egomaniak, morks eye pebble

breakaboss, fast un 

swampcalla shaman, choking mist

gobsprakk the mouth of mork

3x10 gutrippaz 

9 manskewer boltboyz

marshcrawler sloggoth

purple sun (Becasue it’s painted ideal would be spell portals) 

battle regiment for a 3 drop army (Breakaboss and gobsprakk out of the formation) 

=2000 exactly

Its a interesting list! I got a couple of questions about it:

Assuming you are using Grinnin Blades, was the vision effect of the subfaction worthy it in your games?

Is the 3x 10 blocks of Gutrippaz only for battleline or had they proven to be useful in this way in your games?

You re using the spell portal just for the nasty hex? How reliable could you get both with Gobsprakk?

Lastly, the Marshcrawler as a egomaniak bodyguard is a cool combination. How resilient (taking the wounds of the sludgeraker + standing against other units in combat) was it for you?

[Beliman]

On 3/8/2022 at 8:44 PM, Arzalyn said:

Maybe we are luck and they give us a White Dwarf update or something like that at the end of this year/next year. Other than that, yeah, point is the most probable.

Da Curze of da early 'dition books!

I hope to see more warclans (at least 1 more), more battleline if (unlocked by warclans and general), less abilities with restrictions (skare taktikz, poisons & elixirs), more swamp-lore interactions (bonus to cast), more Command Traits (two tables: magic users and bosses) and at least 2 more artifacts (with the same trending of "Once Per Battle") with an option to take more artifacts (like Greyfyrd).

/WishlistOff

Edited March 10, 2022 by Beliman

[Sangfroid]

@Arzalyn thanks! No it’s Bad yellers so the Bolt boyz are battleline.  The 3rd gutrippaz is just to hold objectives or to screen/replace a unit that dies. I want to try a battle with 3x10 hobgrots instead of the 10 GR and spell that will probably be a better list. I like Grinnin blades but a 20 inch double shot threat range is too good and 27” standing still allows me to be more defensive. 
 

the portals would be for black pit or nasty hex yes sadly gobsprakk isn’t the most reliable caster all his spells are 6 or 7 so you can never count on it (if I had 80pts I’d take 10 hobgrots instead of a spell see above) most of the time I cast mystic shield, arcane bolt, make a character a monster (for the ferocious advance extra VP t1 or t2) and choking mist (which is the best spell IMO stop a whole army running if they bunch up which means more time for me to score Vp, position t he Waagh and dakka dakka) 

egomaniak is pretty amazing on average it gives the Snatchaboss boss an effective 21 wounds AFTER save rolls love it! 

 

 

[NCFCpaul]

I've been using Kragnos in mine, which gives the option of 3D6 charge making the Gutrippaz more effective. 

Anyone else have thoughts about Kragnos or ways to utilise him effectively?