AoS3 - Soulblight Gravelord Discussion

[FeralMulan]

2 minutes ago, Nasrod said:

I think part of the reason this book has a lot of negativity is that complaints from the previous book weren't acknowledged. Look at how improved Hedonites is while maintaining the idea of the warscrolls; even if it ends up being a weak book, the models do what they feel like they should do. 

Skeletons, Zombies, and Dire Wolves all now play radically different roles. And the idea that Zombies having a 6" pile in was too strong becomes really frustrating when it's stapled on to another unit in the book. Vyrkos Dynasty is nothing at all what it used to be; so many things were given completely new identities, for seemingly no reason, while the Vampire Heroes were ignored. 

Change is cool, but this amount of change for what is a technical horde army is going to frustrate many players and hobbiests alike. 

I think my biggest complaints are twofold:

 - Lack of Identity. Using either the Hedonites, the Gitz or the Slaves books, every subfaction feels like it has a clear purpose. Relics/Trait support a specific playstyle that players can gravitate to. We... don't really have that outside of Avengorii. LoB feels like the herohammer faction but lacks proper buffs for the Vampires. Vyrkos is perhaps the horde faction? But buffing the horde's damage outside of Graveguard is still clunky and lacklustre.

 - Lack of Combos. Nothing stands out as "ohh, I can' wait to use this artefact/trait". I don't want broken combos, but most of it does very much feel like baseline stats and good luck with the rest.

Just my two cents. I enjoyed my first game and I'm hopeful for us, but nothing really... excites me about the book.

[Aturox]

5 minutes ago, Nasrod said:

I think part of the reason this book has a lot of negativity is that complaints from the previous book weren't acknowledged. Look at how improved Hedonites is while maintaining the idea of the warscrolls; even if it ends up being a weak book, the models do what they feel like they should do. 

Skeletons, Zombies, and Dire Wolves all now play radically different roles. And the idea that Zombies having a 6" pile in was too strong becomes really frustrating when it's stapled on to another unit in the book. Vyrkos Dynasty is nothing at all what it used to be; so many things were given completely new identities, for seemingly no reason, while the Vampire Heroes were ignored. 

Change is cool, but this amount of change for what is a technical horde army is going to frustrate many players and hobbiests alike. 

I think every Battleline has really fluffy rules added to them 

Zombies pulling the living into the grave and skelettons get a increase in rend by overpowering the enemy and the dire wolves getting 6 inch pile since they pounce Into the fray is also really fitting 😀

[Aturox]

9 minutes ago, FeralMulan said:

I think my biggest complaints are twofold:

 - Lack of Identity. Using either the Hedonites, the Gitz or the Slaves books, every subfaction feels like it has a clear purpose. Relics/Trait support a specific playstyle that players can gravitate to. We... don't really have that outside of Avengorii. LoB feels like the herohammer faction but lacks proper buffs for the Vampires. Vyrkos is perhaps the horde faction? But buffing the horde's damage outside of Graveguard is still clunky and lacklustre.

 - Lack of Combos. Nothing stands out as "ohh, I can' wait to use this artefact/trait". I don't want broken combos, but most of it does very much feel like baseline stats and good luck with the rest.

Just my two cents. I enjoyed my first game and I'm hopeful for us, but nothing really... excites me about the book.

I think the vykros Heroes are amazing now! Kritza stealing artefacts of Power and Annika reducing Armor permanently ist a nice Twist

The new subfaction Rules fit really Well i think 

 

[Tizianolol]

Guys is LoN different compared to ironj ironsunz? In LoN opponent has to charge move. So if he dosnt charge you cant charge at the end of rhe phase right?

[Gery81]

8 minutes ago, Tizianolol said:

Guys is LoN different compared to ironj ironsunz? In LoN opponent has to charge move. So if he dosnt charge you cant charge at the end of rhe phase right?

That is correct

[JackStreicher]

56 minutes ago, ArcLight said:

I see a lot of people bemoaning the lack of command abilities

I like that one can basically have one foot hero along a big unit constantly buffing it without the need for a cp. 

[ArcLight]

34 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

I like that one can basically have one foot hero along a big unit constantly buffing it without the need for a cp. 

It is nice and feels like a bit of a change in direction maybe compared to some other books. It brings to mind the old ways of characters leading units and I wonder if it could be early signs of changes to character/unit interactions.

I realise I might be reaching a bit, it's just with the most recent 40k 10th Ed article hinting a return to characters actually joining/leading units it's got me thinking.

[Doko]

2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

I like that one can basically have one foot hero along a big unit constantly buffing it without the need for a cp. 

Sure if they do as the vampire lord change where they nerfed the cp but it is free now then is fine.

The people are mad for the other situation as manfred or coven throne where GAMECHANGING cp as aoe +1hit+1 wound or one unit +1hit +1wound+1 save was deleted for NOTHING.

Nobody like the cp system,is horrible i wish as the priority roll be deleted in next edition, but if i have to choose betwen a great cp buff or loose it?i preffer the cp.

[TechnoVampire]

3 hours ago, FeralMulan said:

 - Lack of Identity. Using either the Hedonites, the Gitz or the Slaves books, every subfaction feels like it has a clear purpose. Relics/Trait support a specific playstyle that players can gravitate to. We... don't really have that outside of Avengorii. LoB feels like the herohammer faction but lacks proper buffs for the Vampires. Vyrkos is perhaps the horde faction? But buffing the horde's damage outside of Graveguard is still clunky and lacklustre.

 - Lack of Combos. Nothing stands out as "ohh, I can' wait to use this artefact/trait". I don't want broken combos, but most of it does very much feel like baseline stats and good luck with the rest.

3 hours ago, FeralMulan said:

Change is cool, but this amount of change for what is a technical horde army is going to frustrate many players and hobbiests alike. 

These are my biggest complaints. I’m trying to find the positives and aspects of the book that excite me, but a lot of it feels like change for the sake of change, without much focus, or unique identity in the same way that other new books have. 

I’m not interested in overall power level, I just want to get excited about certain pairings, builds and combos, using rules that embody the themes of the army, but initially the options feel somewhat restricted. 

I have a a bit of niche perspective however, because I’m not interested in playing with hordes of chaff, preferring hard hitting, alpha style lists. I’m aware there’s probably a lot of stuff going on in the book that will come to light with play and through community discovery, but very little is wowing or overly exciting me initially. 

new hunger is good and I like -2 rend on blood knights. 

… maybe I’m just playing the wrong faction. 

Edited April 8, 2023 by TechnoVampire

[Malakithe]

So I just saw the interaction of the Vyrkos heroic action to increase the unit size of Kosargi Nightguard lol theres no way that was intended 

[TechnoVampire]

When considering the SBGL allegiance ability’s it becomes quite obvious that this is an army purely based on slowly bringing back summonable models and grinding down the opponent:

bring back one summonable (chaff) unit that’s been destroyed at half strength once per battle round on a 4+ or a 3+.  

Bring summonable units out the grave instead of starting on the board. 

Return 3 or 4 models to a summonable unit up to 3 times per turn. 

Army wide 6+ ward.

are these interesting or exciting?

 

Edited April 9, 2023 by TechnoVampire

[Leshoyadut]

10 minutes ago, TechnoVampire said:

bring back one summonable (chaff) unit that’s been destroyed at half strength once per battle round on a 4+ or a 3+. 

It's once per turn, not once per round. It's every movement phase.

Quote

are these interesting or exciting?

Personally, yeah. I'm hyped about these things. I also love how the new Hunger gives our big heroes a ton more staying power in a combat. Even helps Vargheists (who now get it) and Blood Knights. More reliable regen through Deathly Invocation is great, too.

[JackStreicher]

3 hours ago, Malakithe said:

So I just saw the interaction of the Vyrkos heroic action to increase the unit size of Kosargi Nightguard lol theres no way that was intended 

🤔 waaaait a second

 

🤫🤫🤫🤫I love it, but if you tell the secret tech they’ll take it away from us

 

my Kosargi finally had a glowup!🤣

 

now some secret tech for the Vargskyr pls

Edited April 9, 2023 by JackStreicher

[Leshoyadut]

17 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

🤔 waaaait a second

 

🤫🤫🤫🤫I love it, but if you tell the secret tech they’ll take it away from us

 

my Kosargi finally had a glowup!🤣

 

now some secret tech for the Vargskyr pls

It also currently works with Corpse Carts, so you can have a unit of 4 Corpse Carts pretty easily.

[TechnoVampire]

1 hour ago, Leshoyadut said:

It's once per turn, not once per round. It's every movement phase.

Personally, yeah. I'm hyped about these things. I also love how the new Hunger gives our big heroes a ton more staying power in a combat. Even helps Vargheists (who now get it) and Blood Knights. More reliable regen through Deathly Invocation is great, too.

Thanks for correcting me.

I’m glad you are happy with the new book. I genuinely hope most people feel the same way you do.

I don’t want to spread negativity, I think I’m just coming to the realisation that despite loving vampires and dead stuff thematically and aesthetics, mechanically SBGL might not be the right faction for me. 

I think the new book will probably do better competitively. The summoning is much more consistent and if you love hordes of dead stuff coming back this is a great book. If you’re like me and you are more drawn to offensive play, and buffing the vampire side of things, then I think things are a little more tricky. It feels like the primary role of vampires in this book is as necromancer/ support characters and not fighters. 

Blood knights/ Varghiests/ Trueblades are a thing, but I’m not sure kastelai has much of a place in the book, as the more you lean into the sub faction allegiance ability’s the more you ignore the overall faction abilities which feels dissonant. 

Aigain, I don’t want to diminish anyone else’s hype for the new book at all. I’m just trying to figure out if/ how I can still enjoy it. It’s still early days and I may well just be overly disappointed initially and need time to figure it out a bit. 

Edited April 9, 2023 by TechnoVampire

[JackStreicher]

17 minutes ago, TechnoVampire said:

I don’t want to spread negativity, I think I’m just coming to the realisation that despite loving vampires and dead stuff thematically and aesthetics, mechanically SBGL might not be the right faction for me. 

Don’t lose hope!

you can actually bully the opponent with Alpha-Strike Bloodborn.

Also a Wight King + Skeletons popping out of the grave with lots of damage 1 attacks, exploding 6s and maybe +1 attack for a Vampire can catch people off guard. Sprinkle in some blood knights and tada.

[JerekKruger]

15 hours ago, TechnoVampire said:

Would 2” reach allow blood knights to attack in 2 ranks? 

Their bases are 75x42mm ovals, so if you don't mind Tokyo drifting the front rank then they can fight in two ranks (42mm is narrower than 2x1" = 50.8mm.

I'm hoping that AoS 4.0 will make rules like Chaos Knights' Riders of Doom universal though. I don't like the look of turning the front rank side on.

[JerekKruger]

4 hours ago, Malakithe said:

So I just saw the interaction of the Vyrkos heroic action to increase the unit size of Kosargi Nightguard lol theres no way that was intended 

I mean, Kosargi come as part of the ludicrously overpriced Radukar's Court. I doubt GW is that upset if you buy a bunch of them in order to bulk out their unit 😄

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

1 minute ago, TechnoVampire said:

Thanks for correcting me.

I’m glad you are happy with the new book. I genuinely hope most people feel the same way you do.

I don’t want to spread negativity, I think I’m just coming to the realisation that despite loving vampires and the aesthetics of the army, mechanically it might not be for me. 

I think the new book will probably do better competitively. The summoning is much more consistent and if you love hordes of dead stuff coming back this is a great book. If you’re like me and you are more drawn to offensive play, and buffing the vampire side of things, then I think things are a little more tricky. It feels like the role of vampires in this book is as necromancer/ support characters and not fighters. 

Blood knights/ Varghiests/ Trueblades are a thing, but I’m not sure kastelai has much of a place in the book, as the more you lean into the sub faction allegiance ability’s the more you ignore the overall faction abilities which feels dissonant. 

Aigain, I don’t want to diminish anyone else’s hype for the new book at all. I’m just trying to figure out if/ how I can still enjoy it. It’s still early days and I may well just be overly disappointed initially and need time to figure it out a bit. 

I was kind of in the same position when the last book came out and Deathrattle units were kind of not so good anymore. In the end, though, I was able to find some lists in the book that I found exciting.

I think realistically, the pure Kastelai Blood Knight spam alpha strike list has probably go become worse this book. But I also think you might be able to find a good list that you find exciting by not going Kastelai or pure Blood Knights, and maybe looking at alpha-bunkering instead.

[AHexInScarletRed]

I mean, I think full Cavalry with a VLoZD, Blood Knights and Black Knights is possible this time around (with one being BL in Kastelai and the other in LoB). Put in Nef or Vhordrai depending on the faction and a minimalist amount of bodies for Objectives if full Cavalry sounds scary and ta-da. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

30 minutes ago, AHexInScarletRed said:

I mean, I think full Cavalry with a VLoZD, Blood Knights and Black Knights is possible this time around (with one being BL in Kastelai and the other in LoB). Put in Nef or Vhordrai depending on the faction and a minimalist amount of bodies for Objectives if full Cavalry sounds scary and ta-da. 

An all-cavalry list that uses a mix of Blood Knights, Black Knights and Direwolves sounds pretty potent, actually. They all have distinct cavalry roles now: Tanking, charging and skirmishing respectively. I think that list could potentially work in Kastelai, Blood, Night or Vyrkos. Counter-charging with Blood Knights in Night seems super scary and a great way to get them into combat.

[Malakithe]

2 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

now some secret tech for the Vargskyr pls

Right? I love the bloodsucking cruise missile. Cheap, fighty, vampire

 

2 hours ago, TechnoVampire said:

are these interesting or exciting?

To me all Death factions are attrition based. Pick your flavor of summonable returning stuff. That hasnt changed since AoS has existed. Now you dont have to go that route and you could go for the more elite style of lists but ultimately thats not what Death has ever been about...

Slow ever advancing lines of bodies that get back up when they fall controlled by their overlords. Thats Death. 

[TechnoVampire]

2 hours ago, Malakithe said:

Right? I love the bloodsucking cruise missile. Cheap, fighty, vampire

 

To me all Death factions are attrition based. Pick your flavor of summonable returning stuff. That hasnt changed since AoS has existed. Now you dont have to go that route and you could go for the more elite style of lists but ultimately thats not what Death has ever been about...

Slow ever advancing lines of bodies that get back up when they fall controlled by their overlords. Thats Death. 

Except for nighthaunt, FEC and by the looks of it new OBR 😜

but yeah, that army should exist somewhere in death, and it looks like SBGL is the place it will be for the foreseeable. 

[Neil Arthur Hotep]

Just now, TechnoVampire said:

Except for nighthaunt, FEC and by the looks of it new OBR 😜

but yeah, that army should exist somewhere in death, and it looks like SBGL is the place it will be for the foreseeable. 

New OBR is also super grindy. Although there is now a Petrifex list that runs only big boys (Stalkers, Immortis and Morghasts) which looks really hard-hittig and elite.

[woolf]

@TechnoVampire def agree that this book poorly matches what you seem to want for play style, probably worth looking at eg FEC for hard hitting alpha style strategy, at least there are some unit synnergies between the two factions that u can maybe leverage?

generally I think GW likes to deliberately pigeon hole the different armies so as a hobbyist who likes a certain range one is unfortunately kinda forced to lean into the set out strategy of that faction (or accept losing games). on other hand it also helps them keep clear identities associated with the different factions which on the total helps keep the game diversified