KratosvonCarstein Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 13 minutes ago, Sception said: neferata article is up. No real hints on positive changes to her warscroll, though. The only previewed bit for her is her spell, which is a significantly weaker version of the same - no longer lets the target unit fly - just negates save penalties, much shorter range - wholly within 12" instead of within 18". Same casting value. Still a decent option if they make nef good in her own right. Big improvement of the spell is that it only negates negative modifiers. Before it was negative and positive modifiers :). Could be pretty juicy on skeletons/grave guard with an improved armor save from somewhere (like mystic shield is rumoured to give in AoS 3). Edited May 13, 2021 by KratosvonCarstein 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightseer2012 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 It isn't the old Ethereal Amulet but... Legion of Blood VLoZD with Soulbound Garments for a nice 2+ armor save. Actually most of the Command Traits from the Legion of Blood would be awesome on a VLoZD too. Exploding attacks, more Bravery debuffs to synergize with Immortal Majesty and Reanimated Horrors, Aura of Dark Majesty's -1 to be hit, several charging modifiers for either the VLoZD or his escort? Just tailer to your flavor, Legion of Blood has your general covered pretty well. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cataphract Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 13 minutes ago, FeralMulan said: I honestly think the Monster Mash might be the sleeper hit. A Free "Act on Top Profile" each turn can be clutch. -1 to wound should keep them healthy for longer. I also like the “Eye for an Eye” trait. Potentially 4 DamGe 3 attacks, 3 D6+ Damage attacks, and D6 2 Damage attacks. AND Lauka and VenLord’s profiles do not degrade! 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BaylorCorvette Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 4 minutes ago, Erdemo86 said: What do you think about something like that: KASTELEI Prince V Radukar Vengorian Lord 4x 5 Bloodknights A bit light on bodies IMO. From a fluffy fun list it's ace. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightseer2012 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, KratosvonCarstein said: Big improvement of the spell is that it only negates negative modifiers. Before it was negative and positive modifiers :). Could be pretty juicy on skeletons/grave guard with an improved armor save from somewhere (like mystic shield is rumoured to give in AoS 3). Actually yea, get yourself a VLoZD with Soulbound Garments, buff him with Dark Mist, and boom. 2+ Ethereal VLoZD. 1 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Nightseer2012 said: Actually yea, get yourself a VLoZD with Soulbound Garments, buff him with Dark Mist, and boom. 2+ Ethereal VLoZD. sure, but you're relying on successfully casting two different spells in the same turn, in an army with relatively limited casting bonuses. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 10 minutes ago, Sception said: why? he doens't make them stronger, doens't help them make those long charges out of reserve. And their deep strike ability is semi-redundant with LoNight's outflanking gimmick. If the 3e rules specifically buff battleline, say with strong generic battalions specific to battleline, then sure. But in the mean time, apart from maybe meeting BL requirements if you're running less than 3 units of skeletons or zombies, I'm not sure what the synergy between manny and vargheists is exactly. I like them for battle line and for deepstriking shock troops mostly. Also i think the standard necromancer should be auto-include for access to the deathmages spells Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightseer2012 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) 5 minutes ago, Sception said: sure, but you're relying on successfully casting two different spells in the same turn, in an army with relatively limited casting bonuses. Just the one spell actually. Dark Mists is a 50/50 cast chance without modifiers. Corpse Carts are dirt cheap, so I'm not worried. Soulbound Garments is an artifact to give to the VLoZD, so no variables there, just sweet 2+ armor save. EDIT: Actually more than a 50/50, getting a 6 on 2d6 is better than 50/50 odds. Throw in the Corpse cart or something, and it is "likely". Edited May 13, 2021 by Nightseer2012 MATH Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malakithe Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Sception said: sure, but you're relying on successfully casting two different spells in the same turn, in an army with relatively limited casting bonuses. Yep in a meta with a ton of way better magic factions that can easily shut the spells down 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 3 minutes ago, Nightseer2012 said: Just the one spell actually. Dark Mists is a 50/50 cast chance without modifiers. Corpse Carts are dirt cheap, so I'm not worried. Soulbound Garments is an artifact to give to the VLoZD, so no variables there, just sweet 2+ armor save. Fair enough. Don't know why my brain decided you were casting mystic shield. Maybe got mixed up with talk of using the spell on grave guard. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Frowny Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 There is a lot of negativity here but from what is see there are a ton of awesome units. Almost everything seems playavle to good. Fell bats seem useful as cheap screens and pawns to trade for objectives, and can fly on super annoying if not killed fully. Dire wolves are very sturdy. 20 wounds at a 5+ save for 120 is incredible value. These will be a staple. VLoZD and vordrai both hit very hard. Amethystine pinions makes for some very easy T1 charges. Radukar and the centaur vamos are also both strong, durable and have strong army boosters. Blood knights seem very very strong if they can retreat and charge, which seems likely. Zombies are interesting and seem to have a role. Don't underestimate 6inch pile ins. If they survive the opposing charge they will be horrible to get rid of between piling in to make good engagements and several ways to heal models. Grave guard also have a lot of options. They can even get to a 2+save with a coven throne in the legion of night. Coven throne command ability is bonkers. Even just the +1 save is amazing, but with the rest it's out of control. 2+save VLoZD will be brutal. Mannfred seems as broken as i was worried, with a moderate combat ability, ok Casting and a useful command ability perched on a model that is literally unkillable to maybe 1/3rd of armies and incredivly hard to remove against another 1/3. I expect him to be nerfed to only use his ability on your turn, as otherwise he will be hugely problematic. This wil be a very strong release with multiple viable armies and builds. 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeralMulan Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) So my current Best-ofs that I noticed: - Vyrkos Dynasty with a big brick of Grave Guard. Hunter's Lure on a Zombie Dragon for a big objective stealer, or Pack Alpha for free Coven Throne CA each turn - Coven Throne buffing Blood Knights seems incredible, especially if she can charge a big brick that is useless for that turn (provided she gets to cast ofc) - Avengorii "Act on Top Profile" once per battle each seems like it could be good. -1 to wound should keep them around to use it too. Wish the relics/mutations were anything exciting, but whatevs. Also, act on top Profile works for VLoZD, yay! - Kastelai seems pretty sweet. Rousing Commander for a big Alpha Strike, Gravesand Shard for a turn of 5+ FNP. Fragment of the Keep also helps keep your dudes alive (only melee though, booo) - Vargheists in Kastelai though... Buff my nasty vampires, yeeeees. - Legion of Knight Swift from for an easy Turn 1 charge out of DS. Disappointments: - Basically every spell? Okay, that's harsh, but most Warscroll spells and Lore of Vampires seems underwhelming - Wight King Misprint makes them LITERALLY unusable, hopefully day 1 FAQ fixes it - Not yet seeing a unifying THEME for the army. Still, I am hopeful Overall the book seems good! Might take some digging to find the best builds, but I am a dedicated archaeologist haha. Edited May 13, 2021 by FeralMulan 3 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Clewzy Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Interesting to note that Radukar isn't a wizard Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Boar Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, FeralMulan said: - Wight King Misprint makes them LITERALLY unusable, hopefully day 1 FAQ fixes it What do you mean? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightseer2012 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Clewzy said: Interesting to note that Radukar isn't a wizard The fact that ANY vampire isn't also a wizard hurts my brain, after your know... ALL of history tells us vampires are natural wizards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeralMulan Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Just now, Boar said: What do you mean? Command Ability is usable in the Hero Phase, granting reroll 1s to hit until the end of the phase. The hero phase, that is. When your skeletons are not fighting. Yup. 1 5 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Harioch Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 7 minutes ago, Sception said: why? he doens't make them stronger, doens't help them make those long charges out of reserve. And their deep strike ability is semi-redundant with LoNight's outflanking gimmick. I think that's what concerns me a bit with the leaks we got about the battletome: there is some things like that that just seems like weird synergies: -like Vargheist do not benefit Legion of Nights' abilities besides being battleline... -Legion of Blood making D3 more fleeing models against vampires but only zombies and skeletons give a malus on morale. -Vampire lore being toned down on damage because you can do it double times if you cast on 9+...but at the same time it's poor if you cast it at normal values. And those range... Overall I'm very very ok with what we've seen. I'm not exctatic because I find most rules and warscrolls are quite boring(mortarch legions, thrones, allegiances, Kritza and Anika). Besides I really hope zombies and corpse cart are not part of the only good build SBG can do in competitive scene...because I can't stand Zombies. Yeah that's what bother me in the end. Nothing screams "fun time" to me...maybe the Avengori (the models not the allegiance...but I understand that monster mash can be fun to others) and Vyrkos but that's it....I'll still get them because I love vampires. But at the same time it's a "safe" battletome= legion of Nagash 2.0 but tailored to make nothing stands out. The heavy magic side of SBG hinted in the warco post made me believe Death could have a heavy magic faction for once (Destruction is due one too)...but it fall off with only one reasonable spell lore and the other just about bad damages.. 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sception Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) If rumors of the +1/-1 cap on buffs & debuffs in 3e are true, then sword & board grave guard probably aren't eligible targets for mystic shield & other armor save buffs. Edited May 13, 2021 by Sception Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightseer2012 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 (edited) Totally a random weird observation. In the Vyrkos Dynasty, if you take the Ulfenkarn hero ball, Radukar *the Wolf* gets re rolls to cast. Watch Captain Halgrim, The Kosargi Nightgaurd, and Gorslav the Gravekeeper all wound on 2+ when near a Vyrkos vampire. Radukar, the Vargskyr, and the Bloodborn all are vampires who can count for handing out the "+1 to wound on Deadwalkers and Deathrattle" rule. It stinks you can't take them separately, it really does, totally on board there, ...but I am in fact tempted to see what would happen if you take them anyway in a Vyrkos list. Edited May 13, 2021 by Nightseer2012 nvm, the Vargskyr and bloodborn don't help with the aura, they are just gimmicks, lol Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raptor_Jesues Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 just noticed that the coven throne can become a rather decent melee in a kastelai army if it manages to kill something or use the incredible rousing commander trait Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeralMulan Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, Nightseer2012 said: Totally a random weird observation. In the Vyrkos Dynasty, if you take the Ulfenkarn hero ball, Radukar *the Wolf* gets re rolls to cast. Watch Captain Halgrim, The Kosargi Nightgaurd, and Gorslav the Gravekeeper all wound on 2+ when near a Vyrkos vampire. Radukar, the Vargskyr, and the Bloodborn all are vampires who can count for handing out the "+1 to wound on Deadwalkers and Deathrattle" rule. It stinks you can't take them separately, it really does, totally on board there, ...but I am in fact tempted to see what would happen if you take them anyway in a Vyrkos list. That is certainly an interesting thing to note! Shame Radukar only gets the LoV spells (trash) but he could be your Invigorating Aura engine I guess. Or just Mystic Shield. All the vampires giving out the Buffs does make things more interesting though. Send the Vargskyr with it's quasi fly forward with some GraveGuard maybe? Dunno if it's worth taking the whole brick for this interaction. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeralMulan Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 2 minutes ago, Raptor_Jesues said: just noticed that the coven throne can become a rather decent melee in a kastelai army if it manages to kill something or use the incredible rousing commander trait Someone help me because I always mess this up. What buffs do or do not have an effect on the mounts? - Spells do - Command abilities... don't? - Relics don't - Do Command Traits? Do faction abilities? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nightseer2012 Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 1 minute ago, FeralMulan said: That is certainly an interesting thing to note! Shame Radukar only gets the LoV spells (trash) but he could be your Invigorating Aura engine I guess. Or just Mystic Shield. All the vampires giving out the Buffs does make things more interesting though. Send the Vargskyr with it's quasi fly forward with some GraveGuard maybe? Dunno if it's worth taking the whole brick for this interaction. Sorry, I just caught my own error, it is inly HERO vampires that hand out the aura. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FeralMulan Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 Just now, Nightseer2012 said: Sorry, I just caught my own error, it is inly HERO vampires that hand out the aura. Boooo. Nevermind. It was a cool idea though. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RuneBrush Posted May 13, 2021 Share Posted May 13, 2021 17 minutes ago, Nightseer2012 said: The fact that ANY vampire isn't also a wizard hurts my brain, after your know... ALL of history tells us vampires are natural wizards. They're just pushing the existing AoS lore in game. There's quite a few examples of vampires who aren't casters in books and stories. They all do have some necromantic ability as shown in the Deathly Invocation rule - just can't throw fireballs out their fingers Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts