Newcomer wanting to try one of the smaller scale aos variants, but which one??

[Stirlz]

wow theres so much to learn when approaching this hobby. I am first and foremost interested in painting miniatures but I definitely want to play a game with them, and the myriad variations and sub variations are overwhelming. Warcry, Path to Glory, Skirmish, Underworlds, Standard aos! some seem like they get continued support and others dont, some are competitive others are less etc.

I want to play one of the lower-model-count, shorter-game variations because I will need to convince a friend to play with me, and it makes painting models from more than one range more financially reasonable. Is there a good breakdown somewhere of the pros and cons of these games? Is one just clearly the community favorite?

 

 

[JPjr]

Personally I'd ignore Path to Glory for now, hopefully they'll be updating that (or something like it) soon, maybe very soon...

Underworlds is very much a board/card game. it's the cheapest game, great fun but mechanically very different (still the models can be used in most other games). I do really like it and would suggest eventually everyone try it but it's not a wargame in the usual sense of the term

Warcry is probably my favourite right now, the core system's good, different to the main game but all the models can move from one to the other, it has a nice campaign system, you can start small, build up a couple of little forces and see how you feel.

Skirmish is in a weird place, it got some better rules in a White Dwarf but still gets treated like a rented mule

Standard AoS - whilst most people will just say play at 2000 its they have done some good stuff in making smaller pts value games work, it's not always totally balanced (some match up very not so) but it's totally playable at smaller levels as you build up.

 

 

Personally I'd go for Warcry, split a starter set with your mate and you've got not just 2 war bands but importantly a board to play on with some scenery etc, which will stand you in very good stead. There's lots of new releases coming up so it's going to be strongly supported (well as much as any non core game is) for a while yet and everything you get can be used in the main game.

And if you fancy trying out a few different factions before you settle, you can dip your toes in to different ones for £30-40. If you end up wanting to run a chaos army then you're really laughing as there's loads of cool Warcry stuff that you can build a Chaos army around (though maybe not the most competitive builds)

Anyway that's just my dumb thoughts, others here will probably suggest very different things but welcome to the hobby anyway. 

 

 

 

 

[Stirlz]

Wow, thats a really concise and helpful answer, thanks so much! 

I already own the "Start Collecting" box for daughters of khaine and am having fun painting up some snakes. But it means that with a starter box for warcry, we would have 3 warbands, and that seems like a solid amount of variety. Warcry is kinda the direction I was already leaning, after watching a few battle reports. Although it does lack the "huge handfuls of dice" hype of standard games, which is something of a bummer

[Popisdead]

WArcry is a different game all together.  If you wanted to build up skirmish terrain and warbands go with it.  If your aim is long term AoS gaming it may only be a stepping stone for you.  

IF you can find ppl who will play Path to Glory it's a lot of fun.  It will most likely turn into the AoS version of Crusade in July when AoS 3.0 is out and you'll already have a small warband built up

PtG is also free   But I recommend the WArcry Sylvaneth kit of Hunters and Tree REvenants if you can find it. very good value.  the start boxes are also always a good value.  With just those two you can get a PtG army going.

[LoopyZebra]

Warcry and Underworlds are both supported games in their own right. Skirmish and PtG are bolted on rules to the main game. 

A full AoS army is a big investment- both in terms of time and money. I find making a warband for Warcry to be far more accessible and personally enjoyable.

Both Warcry and Underworlds units are usable in AoS. Many normal AoS units are usable in Warcry but not Underworlds. There are Warcry kits that include AoS units that could be used both as a Warcry band and also a start for an AoS army.

[Samukai]

If painting is your true calling then Warhammer Underworlds is the one for you. Unique extremely high quality models for most of Age of Sigmars model ranges. Its a great way to get a bit flavour without committing much. The game its self is also pretty good, a safe start.

[zilberfrid]

11 minutes ago, Samukai said:

If painting is your true calling then Warhammer Underworlds is the one for you. Unique extremely high quality models for most of Age of Sigmars model ranges. Its a great way to get a bit flavour without committing much. The game its self is also pretty good, a safe start.

Do note that the price increase on Underworlds is a bit ridiculous. They've gone from 22,50 per set two years ago to 32,50, almost a 50% increase.

[Samukai]

2 minutes ago, zilberfrid said:

Do note that the price increase on Underworlds is a bit ridiculous. They've gone from 22,50 per set two years ago to 32,50, almost a 50% increase.

I still think the current value is fair, all these smaller games are getting more expensive but all still have way lower entry requirements than any variation of the main games.

[zilberfrid]

7 minutes ago, Samukai said:

I still think the current value is fair, all these smaller games are getting more expensive but all still have way lower entry requirements than any variation of the main games.

We're over 8 euros per model for the new sets. Together with powercreep obsoleting sets in about two years, I can't recommend it.

They are still pretty, but they are also monopose models without extra bits.

[Sance]

Warcry is currently my favourite tabletop game, the rules are different than AoS but it's not a card game so in my mind i prefer it over Underworld.

Yes it cost a bit more since the Starter set / catacombs is a bit expensive, but it's a great game

[Beastmaster]

Do you really need the starter set for Warcry? Basic rules, a card pack and one or two unit boxes, plus some stuff to clatter the table with should suffice to play, right?

[zilberfrid]

Another option is to use Frostgrave or a free one page wargame. You can use the models you want, they can too and rules are cheaper.

[Stirlz]

On 2/6/2021 at 6:03 AM, zilberfrid said:

Another option is to use Frostgrave or a free one page wargame. You can use the models you want, they can too and rules are cheaper.

Hmm I've just looked into frostgrave a bit.  Seems cool, have you played it? Its it well liked?

[zilberfrid]

6 minutes ago, Stirlz said:

Hmm I've just looked into frostgrave a bit.  Seems cool, have you played it? Its it well liked?

It is cool!

It's a reinterpretation of Mordheim, it's objective based (like AoS) instead of only killing the other team. Though if the other team is no more, hard to get the treasure out.

Teams of 10 per player with a reasonable variation (not nearly as much as Warcry though) and a few monsters to flex your creativity with other models.

Warcry will also probably work well, and when playing in other places than a GW shop, your friend can keep costs down by choosing things other than GW models. Not sure how much books cost though, Frostgrave 2 is €25 and is complete (you can probably find Frostgrave 1 for half that, but it has improved and expanded between the two editions).

One interesting pick for Warcry or Frostgrave (or just painting) is Zarbag's Gitz, 9 models with diverse sculpts for €20 isn't bad.

[Stirlz]

Thanks for all the info! Seems like i can use the same minis and terrain for both so it'll be easy enough to try both! Zarbags gitz were already on my radar! Really fun models. But it's so hard to choose between all the great options! Skaven call to me.  I wanna paint up one of those great nighthaunt horses. I can see how this hobby could get addictive!

[someone2040]

If you intend to really play small games, I think one of the dedicated games in Warcry or Warhammer Underworlds is for the better.

Of the two, if your friends are only casually interested Warhammer Underworlds has a cheaper barrier to entry than Warcry as you don't need all the accompanying terrain. Picking up a starter set for Underworlds costs you less than 2 warbands, and you'll get all the dice and boards to go with it. This can easily be shared amongst friends.

Underworlds is also great because there are generally only 3-7 models you need to assemble and paint, and all the models are push fit so even if your friends weren't interested in painting they can still enjoy the game. The flipside to it is, for non-miniature wargamers it might be a bit of a put off that to get more cards to spice up your deck you need to pay for a warband you might not want to use.

 

Warcry is great as a skirmish game, super thematic, and the models are amazing. You can also use it as a stepping stone to assembling a larger Age of Sigmar army, as all armies have rules for Warcry.

It does have more of an upfront cost compared to Underworlds though, as the starter set is not cheap. If your group already has a board and terrain, you can probably get away with picking up a copy of the rules and whichever grand alliance book you need. But if not, the starter set will set you back a decent amount and you may still need to buy the grand alliance books if you don't want to use the Warcry warbands (which come with the cards required to play them).

That being said, it's probably my favourite Games Workshop game to play. It's light, it's casual, it's fun.

 

I would not recommend Skirmish. It's basically adapting the Age of Sigmar rules to a smaller scale and doesn't work particularly well. Warcry is a game that has been built from the ground up for Skirmish battles, and now that all the factions have rules for Warcry with basically any model you'd want to run in Skirmish I have a very hard time recommending Skirmish.

 

Path to Glory IMO is only if you want a way to effectively slow grow your army. It's great fun for a bunch of people looking to play Age of Sigmar while starting new armies. That being said it's not particularly balanced, and you can effectively achieve the same thing by suggesting to play certain matched play point sized games (especially since you can build your lists for free using Warscroll Builder). My groups always adapt the rules in certain ways, where we can use the Path to Glory upgrades but generally end up using points in some ways to balance the games.

Edited February 10, 2021 by someone2040

[zilberfrid]

On 8-2-2021 at 8:21 PM, Stirlz said:

Thanks for all the info! Seems like i can use the same minis and terrain for both so it'll be easy enough to try both! Zarbags gitz were already on my radar! Really fun models. But it's so hard to choose between all the great options! Skaven call to me.  I wanna paint up one of those great nighthaunt horses. I can see how this hobby could get addictive!

Heywoah has a series on youtube about each army with pros and cons.

AoS has truly great models, and Underworld was a cheap way to get a feel for the army. With almost 50% increase in price, that's gone.

One thing to consider is portability. Nighthaunt, Sylvaneth and Lumineth are pretty, but also really fragile due to their tiny connections. If you and your friend play in one place, that won't matter as much.

Skaven has great ideas, but does have old models, something that's also the case for Cities and Ogres.

Compatibility for D&D or other RPG's can also be considered. My favourite, Kharadron, do not fit many settings, while Gitz will work.

[Wired4War]

If you really want the AoS experience, I find 1000 point games (not meeting engagements) a lot of fun and easy to start someone on. You could even start at 500, then work your way up 250pts each time you play, getting used to the new rules for the added units as you go. My friends and I do this together when we first learned the game and anytime we start new armies.

I saw this because the smaller games like underworld, skirmish, warcry tend to add complexity for each of the 10 models per side, where a small AoS game could have only 3 or 4 units to remember. You can ignore terrain rules and other complicated rules. You could even ignore army rules for the first matches and stick to warscrolls, I do that when I play with my 4yo, but adults will probably get the hang of the army after 2-3 games (which will be short!). The other thing I've found helpful is to use simple objectives, the run up the middle and roll endlessly until one side is dead is not as fun. It can also help build narrative.

Edited March 1, 2021 by Wired4War

[Random]

On 2/5/2021 at 6:20 PM, Stirlz said:

I am first and foremost interested in painting miniatures but I definitely want to play a game with them

As many people before, I can wholeheartedly recommend Warcry.

Its a great game and has some Necromunda vibes to it, thanks to the unique Warbands. But given that you're mostly a hobbyist who just wants to play with what he collects and paints, I think Underworlds might be the better choice.

First of all, the cost factor is great, from all perspectives. For 20€ you get a box of minis that often include models that are more expensive individually. Like Thundrik's Profiteers who cost 25€ for five minis, and include a Khemist which for the Kharadron Overlords, costs 22,50€ as a single model.

You get to collect different sets of different armies - all of which can be used in Age of Sigmar itself if you ever decide to go deep, as they have rules in their respective Battletomes - and the game itself is a lot of fun. Plus, the cardgame aspect is attractive to people who might not want to play a pure miniature wargame.

[SorryLizard]

What is peoples advice for 1k games of full AoS?

Are there missions specifically designed for 1k? Main rules missions to avoid playing? Different table sizes, etc.?

I only ever hear bad things about meeting engagements but some of the normal missions seem like a huge pain in 1k. Scorched Earth with 8 objectives for example.

[Wired4War]

8 minutes ago, SorryLizard said:

What is peoples advice for 1k games of full AoS?

Are there missions specifically designed for 1k? Main rules missions to avoid playing? Different table sizes, etc.?

I only ever hear bad things about meeting engagements but some of the normal missions seem like a huge pain in 1k. Scorched Earth with 8 objectives for example.

I like 1k games on a 4x4 table, though the new 40k tables of 30x44 might be nice if you wanted to get into the action faster. You can always remove an objective or two if it seems like it'd be too crowded on the smaller board. Shifting objective has worked well for us, Better part of valor with 4 instead of 6 objectives, Focal Points, Scorched Earth with 4-6, and Battle for the Pass is one of our favorites. 

Edited March 1, 2021 by Wired4War

[SorryLizard]

9 hours ago, Wired4War said:

I like 1k games on a 4x4 table, though the new 40k tables of 30x44 might be nice if you wanted to get into the action faster. You can always remove an objective or two if it seems like it'd be too crowded on the smaller board. Shifting objective has worked well for us, Better part of valor with 4 instead of 6 objectives, Focal Points, Scorched Earth with 4-6, and Battle for the Pass is one of our favorites. 

Thanks.

Any pitfalls to look out for? Things to avoid bringing in armies?

[zilberfrid]

11 hours ago, Random said:

As many people before, I can wholeheartedly recommend Warcry.

Its a great game and has some Necromunda vibes to it, thanks to the unique Warbands. But given that you're mostly a hobbyist who just wants to play with what he collects and paints, I think Underworlds might be the better choice.

First of all, the cost factor is great, from all perspectives. For 20€ you get a box of minis that often include models that are more expensive individually. Like Thundrik's Profiteers who cost 25€ for five minis, and include a Khemist which for the Kharadron Overlords, costs 22,50€ as a single model.

You get to collect different sets of different armies - all of which can be used in Age of Sigmar itself if you ever decide to go deep, as they have rules in their respective Battletomes - and the game itself is a lot of fun. Plus, the cardgame aspect is attractive to people who might not want to play a pure miniature wargame.

Underworlds was a good starting point at €22,50. They are now at €32,50. With warbands at 80% to price of a warcry warband that has over double the models, that stopped being true. There is quite a bit of powercreep between editions, so older sets will be phased out. Especially if you're there for the models, underworld stopped being a good idea.

The older warbands are still solid for models though, and Zarbags or Thundriks are great bases for a Warcry band.

[Painbringer]

As other people already mentioned, Warcry, Skirmish and Path to Glory are all good choices for a small-scale game. If you are interested in Skirmish but you also like converting, keep in mind that there are formats like AoS28 - you can get more information here: https://www.exprofundis.com/

Edited March 2, 2021 by Painbringer

[Wired4War]

6 hours ago, SorryLizard said:

Thanks.

Any pitfalls to look out for? Things to avoid bringing in armies?

As long as both players are wanting to play fun and casual and take the units they like there shouldn't be a problem. At that point level, a large epic model will be at least half the list and so it will balance out by not having many other units to support it. If there is some really really good unit, don't just spam giant blocks of it. I think the small format forces using minimum sized units anyway so you have flexibility to grab and hold objectives.