Aos 2 - Lumineth Realm-Lords Discussion

[Gaz Taylor]

8 minutes ago, Feii said:

Do comments need to be nice? They were just neutral tethering to being hostile but if somebody keeps their shtick of using unsupported evidence and their feelings to make a point when there are data I just dont think I need to be soft and cuddly to people with antivaxx mindset

+++ Mod Hat On +++
Follow the rules and I won’t starting issuing points or bans. You’ve been warned. 

[Ragest]

13 hours ago, Grudgebearer said:

Really nice data, may I ask where it could be found? Would love to See a current winrate list

thx in advance 

Is not online at the moment. I have a group that keeps working since November to make the biggest aos database about tournamets. We were ready to make something like a recap thinking that faqs would habe changed everything, but the lack of and the waiting till almost February changed all plans

[Ragest]

Sry, my phone got some bugs posting xd

Edited February 10, 2021 by Ragest

[LuminethMage]

1 hour ago, Ragest said:

Is not online at the moment. I have a group that keeps working since November to make the biggest aos database about tournamets. We were ready to make something like a recap thinking that faqs would habe changed everything, but the lack of and the waiting till almost February changed all plans

Sounds interesting, as you mentioned you include both Online and physical tournament data, do you also measure if there was any difference between the win rates of these? Not specifically concerning LRL, but generally. 

[Ragest]

54 minutes ago, LuminethMage said:

Sounds interesting, as you mentioned you include both Online and physical tournament data, do you also measure if there was any difference between the win rates of these? Not specifically concerning LRL, but generally. 

What i can say is that Nurgle and Mawtribes work pretty well in physical tournaments and LRL works different, better scores in online.  And about kharadron, there is so much more players in physical than online, same with stormcast.

Edited February 10, 2021 by Ragest

[Siegfried VII]

5 minutes ago, Ragest said:

 and LRL works different, better scores in online

It may be that on TTS it is much easier to play 80 sentinels lists than it is viable in physical tournaments.. 😅

Generally I believe that TTS games remove the monetary/rule of cool limitations from lists and as a result we get different results..

[Etey]

Hi everyone. I'm a new player for the LRL. Please tell me, is this a good roaster against the Sons of Behemath on 1000 pts?

Great Nation: Zaitrec

Scinari Cathallar 
The Light of Eltharion 

10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens 
20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels 
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens 
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens 

[Jeremierty]

1 hour ago, Etey said:

Hi everyone. I'm a new player for the LRL. Please tell me, is this a good roaster against the Sons of Behemath on 1000 pts?

Great Nation: Zaitrec

Scinari Cathallar 
The Light of Eltharion 

10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens 
20 x Vanari Auralan Sentinels 
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens 
10 x Vanari Auralan Wardens 

Hey ! Welcome fellow disciple of teclis and tyrion tyrion

As I've fought them last week my experience tells me to go Siar for the double aetherquartz and the arrogance trait that prevents an enemy hero hitting anyone other than the general (it was incredible to nullify his mega gargant)

I wouldn't go hard on sentinels as they don't have the dps to one shot 35+ sounds a pack of 20 wardens with speed of hishe and power of hishe can surprisingly dish out more pain than 20 sentinels while being cheaper, tanking better and taking objectives  

you can also try to stack the maluses to hit with the shining company + geminids of ulgish for example letting his gargants hit you only on 5 or 6s

You can also play with the bravery bomb mecanic with the stonemage vertigo spell and the cathallar signature spell to try to prevent him from moving, charging or fighting 

Finally 5 dawnriders allowed me to steal the objectives and to tangle one of its units for 1 turn but I don't know if it's a good investment for a 1000 points list 

I didn't play eltharion as I find him quite fragile (but he is so cool) I would be very interested to have your feedback on how well he fares in your battle !

 

 

 

[Howdyhedberg]

Hi all! I don't know, but to me it feels like LRL are pretty popular, or is it just that we are a lot more that discuss and talk about it here at the forum? Just wanted to say that I enjoy what y'all post and so on.

I dont know the next time I will play, but some of you that are more into playing might be able to give me some advice?

The army I bought and are planning to field are the following

Teclis
Cathaller
The Light of Eltharion

5x2 Dawnriders (I think? I have ten at least)

10x2 Wardens

10x2 Sentinels.

The Cathaller + Sentinels + Wardens battalion.

I think thats about 2000 points.

What sub-faction would y'all say are the best for this build? and why?

Ive only played Zaitrec before. 

I feel Syar is risky, and I struggle to see the point of using 2 quartz.

 

The armies I will face are the following - Stormcast Eternals, Slaves to Darkness (no Archaeon), Disciple of Tzeentch & Sylvaneth.

Only the Sylvaneth player is a veteran (he plays 1-2 times a month). 

Thankful for suggestions!

[Etey]

1 hour ago, Jeremierty said:

Hey ! Welcome fellow disciple of teclis and tyrion tyrion

As I've fought them last week my experience tells me to go Siar for the double aetherquartz and the arrogance trait that prevents an enemy hero hitting anyone other than the general (it was incredible to nullify his mega gargant)

I wouldn't go hard on sentinels as they don't have the dps to one shot 35+ sounds a pack of 20 wardens with speed of hishe and power of hishe can surprisingly dish out more pain than 20 sentinels while being cheaper, tanking better and taking objectives  

you can also try to stack the maluses to hit with the shining company + geminids of ulgish for example letting his gargants hit you only on 5 or 6s

You can also play with the bravery bomb mecanic with the stonemage vertigo spell and the cathallar signature spell to try to prevent him from moving, charging or fighting 

Finally 5 dawnriders allowed me to steal the objectives and to tangle one of its units for 1 turn but I don't know if it's a good investment for a 1000 points list 

I didn't play eltharion as I find him quite fragile (but he is so cool) I would be very interested to have your feedback on how well he fares in your battle !

 

 

 

The situation is as follows: the enemy has a Stomper tribe and exactly two units. Warstomper and three Mancrusher models in one unit. Sentinels can, if not kill the Mancrusher model, then at least severely injure it. I use the Wardens exclusively as defensive squads.

Eltharion is very good as a solo killer and easily takes out the Mancrusher model alone. And I keep the big gargante with the Cathallar. Not very reliable, but very painful for the enemy.

I doubt the use of Syar due to the fact that the general is Cathallar. I don't want to expose her to a possible blow. Zaitrek looks more reliable in this regard.

[Jeremierty]

32 minutes ago, Etey said:

The situation is as follows: the enemy has a Stomper tribe and exactly two units. Warstomper and three Mancrusher models in one unit. Sentinels can, if not kill the Mancrusher model, then at least severely injure it. I use the Wardens exclusively as defensive squads.

Eltharion is very good as a solo killer and easily takes out the Mancrusher model alone. And I keep the big gargante with the Cathallar. Not very reliable, but very painful for the enemy.

I doubt the use of Syar due to the fact that the general is Cathallar. I don't want to expose her to a possible blow. Zaitrek looks more reliable in this regard.

The combo allows you tu put the syar general behind a unit of wardens for example and at the combat phase to designate an enemy hero 6 inches from the general and he can only attack this general. So if the mega gargant is engaged in combat with the wardens and the cathallar is 6 inches from him behind the wardens he can't hit the wardens and can't hit the cathallar so you basically nullified 500 points of his army without putting the cathallar at risk since she is too far from the mega gargant to be hit by him and he cant hit the wardens either 

 

concerning the zaitrec nation, I like the idea but the way I see it it gives you only a +1 to cast.. which will only be useful in case you roll a 5 when you need a 6 for example... If you need a 6 and you roll better then the zaitrec bonus is useless. 

with Siar and an extra aetherquartzwhen you do need to make that 5 into a 6 you can just use an aetherquartz to improve the roll or reroll the dices... And If you never need it you can use the aetherquartz for a +1 save or else which is super useful

Edited February 10, 2021 by Jeremierty

[LuminethMage]

2 hours ago, Howdyhedberg said:

Hi all! I don't know, but to me it feels like LRL are pretty popular, or is it just that we are a lot more that discuss and talk about it here at the forum? Just wanted to say that I enjoy what y'all post and so on.

I dont know the next time I will play, but some of you that are more into playing might be able to give me some advice?

The army I bought and are planning to field are the following

Teclis
Cathaller
The Light of Eltharion

5x2 Dawnriders (I think? I have ten at least)

10x2 Wardens

10x2 Sentinels.

The Cathaller + Sentinels + Wardens battalion.

I think thats about 2000 points.

What sub-faction would y'all say are the best for this build? and why?

Ive only played Zaitrec before. 

I feel Syar is risky, and I struggle to see the point of using 2 quartz.

 

The armies I will face are the following - Stormcast Eternals, Slaves to Darkness (no Archaeon), Disciple of Tzeentch & Sylvaneth.

Only the Sylvaneth player is a veteran (he plays 1-2 times a month). 

Thankful for suggestions!

Here at the forum they are popular. Seems also that relatively many people are painting them. On the Warhammer Weekly survey they had done a month or two ago (results were shown last week) the LRL  were at the lower end, but it’s still hard to say if that’s because they are still new. @SirSalabean is just doing another survey (can be found in the main forum) right now, let’s see what the results are there. 

You have 200 points left : ). So maybe increase one of the Warden units and add an endless spell like Geminids or the Spellportal? 

Syar is very good if you use Teclis, because you can give him  2+ Save if needed. Stormcast, DoT and Sylvaneth all can hit him very well from range, so that might come in handy. 2 Aetherquartz are also great for flexibility, using one for things like additional spells or attack rolls, and still having another one for the save. Or just having the option to increase the save of two units per phase is awesome. 

If you like Zaitrec, against DoT (if he doesn’t come with a heavy alphas strike/shooting list) it should be good because of the improved unbinds. The more spells you can deny your opponent the better. I love Zaitrec and would play it against all of those, but it’s probably not the best way to do it. 

[Austin]

It is my firm belief that the only reason the Syar uber-troll ability has not been changed is because not many people use it.  There are so many armies against which that ability is just insane.  Sons, Beastclaw, FEC,  Hedonites (pre mortals), etc (any army that has multiple hero monsters).  It almost makes Sons unplayable in a 1k format as people have alluded to above. 

Now, I am totally ok with it, but think its probably not crazy to imagine a day when that changes from not being able to attack to a -2 to hit all other targets type deal.

[Jeremierty]

1 hour ago, Austin said:

It is my firm belief that the only reason the Syar uber-troll ability has not been changed is because not many people use it.  There are so many armies against which that ability is just insane.  Sons, Beastclaw, FEC,  Hedonites (pre mortals), etc (any army that has multiple hero monsters).  It almost makes Sons unplayable in a 1k format as people have alluded to above. 

Now, I am totally ok with it, but think its probably not crazy to imagine a day when that changes from not being able to attack to a -2 to hit all other targets type deal.

I agree it was quite frustrating for my opponent but it really was his mistake to charge the unit in front of my syar general with his mega gargant, if he had charged it with 3 man eaters (any non hero unit) or if he had focus fired it with his rocks to kill him with shooting attack he would have been fine so while it's indeniably VERY strong there are definitely some ways to work around it so it is not that over powered  ? 

I agree it obviously compells the opponent to take this trait into account and find a way to work-around it so I quite like the fact that it impacts your opponent strategy and he has to adapt 

[Austin]

33 minutes ago, Jeremierty said:

I agree it was quite frustrating for my opponent but it really was his mistake to charge the unit in front of my syar general with his mega gargant, if he had charged it with 3 man eaters (any non hero unit) or if he had focus fired it with his rocks to kill him with shooting attack he would have been fine so while it's indeniably VERY strong there are definitely some ways to work around it so it is not that over powered  ? 

I agree it obviously compells the opponent to take this trait into account and find a way to work-around it so I quite like the fact that it impacts your opponent strategy and he has to adapt 

Yeah for sure, which is why it seems just on the ok side of quite strong to me.

[whispersofblood]

3 hours ago, Austin said:

It is my firm belief that the only reason the Syar uber-troll ability has not been changed is because not many people use it.  There are so many armies against which that ability is just insane.  Sons, Beastclaw, FEC,  Hedonites (pre mortals), etc (any army that has multiple hero monsters).  It almost makes Sons unplayable in a 1k format as people have alluded to above. 

Now, I am totally ok with it, but think its probably not crazy to imagine a day when that changes from not being able to attack to a -2 to hit all other targets type deal.

If people aren't chucking all their ranged attacks at cathallers they get what they deserve. They are such an integral piece even without goading arrogance. 

It will be interesting to see if we get any heroes that change battleline to put some strategic pressure on this default choice.

[SirSalabean]

I just wanna let everyone know I really like Lumineth my love for them only grows. If only Teclis had this love for idoneth 

[Howdyhedberg]

17 hours ago, LuminethMage said:

 Syar is very good if you use Teclis, because you can give him  2+ Save if needed. Stormcast, DoT and Sylvaneth all can hit him very well from range, so that might come in handy. 2 Aetherquartz are also great for flexibility, using one for things like additional spells or attack rolls, and still having another one for the save. Or just having the option to increase the save of two units per phase is awesome.  

How do you get him 2+ save? (Using two quartz in a row?).

11 hours ago, Austin said:

Now, I am totally ok with it, but think its probably not crazy to imagine a day when that changes from not being able to attack to a -2 to hit all other targets type deal.

I don't remember, could you make your units -2 to hit?

[LuminethMage]

4 hours ago, Howdyhedberg said:

How do you get him 2+ save? (Using two quartz in a row?).

 

Yup, using both together. 

[Ragest]

4 hours ago, Howdyhedberg said:

I don't remember, could you make your units -2 to hit?

Yes, in AoS that stacks.

You can go -2 with Avalenor+shining company or -3 if you add gemini.

[Joseph Mackay]

On 2/11/2021 at 4:07 AM, Siegfried VII said:

It may be that on TTS it is much easier to play 80 sentinels lists than it is viable in physical tournaments.. 😅

Generally I believe that TTS games remove the monetary/rule of cool limitations from lists and as a result we get different results..

This. I completely disregard anything from TTS as people seem to be running lists that you’d never see in person.

Seraphon for example, the Salamander spam. In my area, nobody would EVER buy that many of those old ugly and expensive resin salamanders so you’ll never see that type of list in person.

i have no firsthand experience with it, but I’ve heard combat, specifically pile in moves, are very ‘clunky’ in tts so people aren’t playing combats right (skipping pile ins) or running lists that avoid combat as much as possible 

[Feii]

27 minutes ago, Joseph Mackay said:

This. I completely disregard anything from TTS as people seem to be running lists that you’d never see in person.

Seraphon for example, the Salamander spam. In my area, nobody would EVER buy that many of those old ugly and expensive resin salamanders so you’ll never see that type of list in person.

i have no firsthand experience with it, but I’ve heard combat, specifically pile in moves, are very ‘clunky’ in tts so people aren’t playing combats right (skipping pile ins) or running lists that avoid combat as much as possible 

Thats a very dishonest and flawed argument - just because some TTS lists would not materialise in reality it doesnt matter that some of them will. 

 

Many new armies dont have any resin models so there is no space for the “20 cockatrice models wont be a thing” argument. 

 

Personally the FEC smash bat list looks very nice and got me looking at that faction IRL. 

 

 

 

[Joseph Mackay]

6 hours ago, Feii said:

Thats a very dishonest and flawed argument - just because some TTS lists would not materialise in reality it doesnt matter that some of them will. 

The problem for me is that these ‘unrealistic’ lists (the ones you’ll never see in person), is that their results are meaningless because you’ll never see them, but also, any games against those lists are also meaningless because wins over the unrealistic lists don’t necessarily mean anything against a real list and artificially alter a factions ‘Winrate’ 

if TTS results were kept separate from actual games then fine, but using the data together isn’t giving an accurate representation of the state of the game.

[Feii]

1 hour ago, Joseph Mackay said:

The problem for me is that these ‘unrealistic’ lists (the ones you’ll never see in person), is that their results are meaningless because you’ll never see them, but also, any games against those lists are also meaningless because wins over the unrealistic lists don’t necessarily mean anything against a real list and artificially alter a factions ‘Winrate’ 

if TTS results were kept separate from actual games then fine, but using the data together isn’t giving an accurate representation of the state of the game.

I understand that people need to hate TTS without checking it for themselves BUT if you look at competitive TTS leagues going on or just bigger tournaments  vast majority of people play REAL lists. Lists that they would be able to play IRL when we will be again able to. People field 3-6 Salamanders in most seraphon lists which is not a spam list or unreal. 

Open play is a different thing. 

[whispersofblood]

1 hour ago, Feii said:

I understand that people need to hate TTS without checking it for themselves BUT if you look at competitive TTS leagues going on or just bigger tournaments  vast majority of people play REAL lists. Lists that they would be able to play IRL when we will be again able to. People field 3-6 Salamanders in most seraphon lists which is not a spam list or unreal. 

Open play is a different thing. 

I dunno if it's a language thing but you could take a little bit off the top regarding your aggression mate. 

Anyway for the most part TTS is fine, it replicates some aspects better than. Other aspects and it's a good tool for learning competitive AoS as you can undo. 

It doesn't have the feel though, and pile-ins aren't necessarily better.

TTS does eliminate the cost and painting factor which is probably behind the over representation of Archaon.