AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[Bayul]

43 minutes ago, MitGas said:

Only drawback is that you might really wanna airbrush it then as it becomes a bit thin/runny although less of a problem if you don‘t use the vallejo metal colors (still possible to use with a brush though, don‘t get me wrong). Either way, looking forward to your take! 👍

I am quite optimistic. I got a good result with a purple / brown Contrast mix over silver on my Necrons and this time I'll even have more options. I just discovered Green Stuffs World's colorshift paints and Storm Surge Green might look totally bonkers on Tzeentch units. Might have to buy a better airbrush pistol though.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

2 hours ago, Ravinsild said:

I’m so keen on running a Manticore Lord. I had an old list that I just don’t think will work anymore with all the points increases which is quite frustrating.

[SNIP LIST DETAILS]

however I don’t think even with dropping the Warshrine this list is legal because they hiked the prices on all the stuff too much. I’m really sad because I want an excuse to run a manticore lord and also now a daemon Prince cuz of the models. Wondering how I can work it out. This is my favorite list because every single model is a variant of the chaos warrior aesthetic and nothing is wasted. No chaff, no off models, every single model is on theme and on point completely and it looks like one big uniform army all black, no faces, just a tide of darkness and steel come to ravage the lands of all who oppose Khorne. 

This reminds me of my own list-building process. Start with the models I absolutely want in the list no matter what, and then build out from there. Similarly, I never optimize so far as to use a model I truly hate--my Soulblight reluctantly included the old Grave Guard sculpts, who are a little goofy and boring, but at least cool in concept. I never included Zombies because I just don't ever like zombies in anything. List-building is basically a process of making the best result I can out of self-imposed restrictions.

If that's the sort of thing you want to do, I have a recommendation on what might work. However, it's pretty conditional on you finding a Cultist unit you can put up with at least a little (maybe Spire Tyrants?). I think Ravagers is a good home for all three of the Daemon Prince, Manticore Lord, and Warshrine, but without cultist chaff to recur for move-blocking and objective stealing, Ravagers is a dead faction. If you can fit in even just 20-30 cultist models alongside your more badass stuff, I think you could have a pretty solid tactical play to go with the excellent style.

[Ravinsild]

24 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

This reminds me of my own list-building process. Start with the models I absolutely want in the list no matter what, and then build out from there. Similarly, I never optimize so far as to use a model I truly hate--my Soulblight reluctantly included the old Grave Guard sculpts, who are a little goofy and boring, but at least cool in concept. I never included Zombies because I just don't ever like zombies in anything. List-building is basically a process of making the best result I can out of self-imposed restrictions.

If that's the sort of thing you want to do, I have a recommendation on what might work. However, it's pretty conditional on you finding a Cultist unit you can put up with at least a little (maybe Spire Tyrants?). I think Ravagers is a good home for all three of the Daemon Prince, Manticore Lord, and Warshrine, but without cultist chaff to recur for move-blocking and objective stealing, Ravagers is a dead faction. If you can fit in even just 20-30 cultist models alongside your more badass stuff, I think you could have a pretty solid tactical play to go with the excellent style.

Ironically I’ve already got that exact list made. It uses 20 Darkoath Savagers because they’re the closest to looking like new versions of the horrific marauder models alongside the Darkoath Chieftan because 1) I already painted him and 2) because I think he’s a pretty cool model. Also he finally has interaction with his own people. 
 

I actually don’t care at all about the Warshrine anymore I think it got nerfed to trash and 90% of my lists are 90% Khorne and 185 pts for a +1 to charge is not worth to me. 
 

The rest of the list is the usual suspects. Chaos Lords of all variety, one DP, chaos warriors, knights and chosen. I’m also open to Gorebeast Chariots and Regular Chariots because again they match the heavily armored black platemail warrior look. 

[MitGas]

1 hour ago, Bayul said:

I am quite optimistic. I got a good result with a purple / brown Contrast mix over silver on my Necrons and this time I'll even have more options. I just discovered Green Stuffs World's colorshift paints and Storm Surge Green might look totally bonkers on Tzeentch units. Might have to buy a better airbrush pistol though.

Storm Surge is quite good (also tried it) but the flakes are big on all the shifter paints, so I'm not too happy with the finish in the end. I wouldn't go for contrast over metallics to recreate your mini above. Color will be so strong it won't look like eerily-tinted metal but rather a teal metallic like on some car. Which might be what you're going for anyways. Just sharing my thoughts without you asking for them cause I did a lot of tests to get that blue/green metal look i wanted. Maybe it's some help. 😁 If not, forgive me. 😇

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

23 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

Ironically I’ve already got that exact list made. It uses 20 Darkoath Savagers because they’re the closest to looking like new versions of the horrific marauder models alongside the Darkoath Chieftan because 1) I already painted him and 2) because I think he’s a pretty cool model. Also he finally has interaction with his own people. 
 

I actually don’t care at all about the Warshrine anymore I think it got nerfed to trash and 90% of my lists are 90% Khorne and 185 pts for a +1 to charge is not worth to me. 
 

The rest of the list is the usual suspects. Chaos Lords of all variety, one DP, chaos warriors, knights and chosen. I’m also open to Gorebeast Chariots and Regular Chariots because again they match the heavily armored black platemail warrior look. 

That sounds like fun. I would probably grab a second unit of Savagers (maybe up to 3 units total depending on how you divvy up reinforcement points) for more subfaction recursion options, but I can see not wanting to spend too many points on unarmored models. The nice thing is how much cheaper they are than the armored stuff though, even without bringing them back later. And if you can recur them onto an objective, you can almost insta-complete their oath if it's one your opponent had to abandon or that you cleared with a charge from other units. I'd also recommend building the Prince with the Trophy Rack if you're taking at least one reinforced Cultist unit, because their bravery is not so great (better on the Darkoath than some, admittedly).

Of course, if these recommendations do not spark joy, definitely go with what you're doing already or feel like doing instead. I'm just sort of brainstorming what I'd do in your boots!

[Ravinsild]

6 minutes ago, RocketPropelledGrenade said:

That sounds like fun. I would probably grab a second unit of Savagers (maybe up to 3 units total depending on how you divvy up reinforcement points) for more subfaction recursion options, but I can see not wanting to spend too many points on unarmored models. The nice thing is how much cheaper they are than the armored stuff though, even without bringing them back later. And if you can recur them onto an objective, you can almost insta-complete their oath if it's one your opponent had to abandon or that you cleared with a charge from other units. I'd also recommend building the Prince with the Trophy Rack if you're taking at least one reinforced Cultist unit, because their bravery is not so great (better on the Darkoath than some, admittedly).

Of course, if these recommendations do not spark joy, definitely go with what you're doing already or feel like doing instead. I'm just sort of brainstorming what I'd do in your boots!

I have several lists I am already satisfied with personally, and I am very excited to play and for which I (yay!) already own the FULL models for. I do not currently own any Darkoath Savagers, so that's more of a test it out later kind of list. I currently have exactly 20 warriors, 10 knights, technically 20 Chosen (10 old, 10 new), 2 Daemon Princes (1 old 1 new, struggling between building the new one totally khornate with hooves or "recreating" my current model), 2 Chaos Lord on Foot (One is a Mighty Lord of Khorne modified), 3 Chaos Sorcerer Lords (2 are official one is a proxy from mantic games), 2 Chaos Lord on Karkadraks, 2 Fomoroid Crushers, and a Chaos Warshrine and last 1 Darkoath Chieftan. 

I'd be looking at getting a Manticore Conversion from Mantic Games with a lot of kitbashing the lord on top of their Manticore, Chaos Chariots and Gorebeasts, and Darkoath Savagers and a Chaos Lord on Daemonic Mount. 

Allegiance: Slaves to Darkness
- Damned Legion: Host of the Everchosen (First Circle)
- Grand Strategy: Dominating Presenece
- Triumphs:

Leaders
Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (225)**
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Chaos Sorcerer Lord (135)**
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
Chaos Lord (120)**
- Reaperblade & Daemonbound Steel
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Slaves to Darkness Daemon Prince (210)*
- General
- Axe
- Mark of Chaos: Khorne
Aspiring Deathbringer (80)
- Bloodaxe and Wrath Hammer
- Allies

Battleline
10 x Chaos Warriors (200)*
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
10 x Chaos Warriors (200)*
- Hand Weapon & Shield
- Mark of Chaos: Nurgle
5 x Chaos Knights (170)
- Cursed Lance
5 x Chaos Knights (170)
- Cursed Lance

Endless Spells & Invocations
Eightfold Doom-sigil (50)

Core Battalions
*Chaos Warband - Unified
**Warlord

Total: 1560 / 2000
Reinforced Units: 0 / 4
Allies: 80 / 400
Wounds: 104
Drops: 9
 

This is my first list. The second version replaces the Karkadrak with Lord on Mount, then takes out Aspiring Deathbringer and Endless spell for another unit of Chosen. Simple and effective, I think. 

[Wraith]

My copy of the battle box arrived today, accompanied by a Frank Frazetta print to celebrate the occasion. After taking some time to look through it, I have set aside the battle tome for further reading and placed all the minis in the box under the other boxes of stuff waiting to get built. Like Archaon. Must build him one day.

 

It will be two weeks before I can get in a game. It will be 1000 points. What can we do at that point level?

 

Ravagers - 1000pts - 1 drop

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak* - Slannesh, general, Dealer of Death - 220pt
Chaos Sorcerer Lord* - Nurgle, binding damnation - 120pt

Chaos Knights* (5) - Slannesh, banner of slannesh - 230pt
Chaos Warriors* (10) - Nurgle - 220pt
Untamed Beasts* - 90pt
Corvus Cabal* - 80pt

Endless Spell:
8fold Sigal of Doom - 40pt

Battalion:
Battle Regiment*

 

Except the Corvus Cabal, which is in the post, all this stuff is assembled and painting has started. Can I get it all done before the weekend after next? 

 

 

[JackStreicher]

1 hour ago, Wraith said:

It will be two weeks before I can get in a game. It will be 1000 points. What can we do at that point level?

 

Simply use the content of the new box

(should be around 1000 points)

 

On a different note: Has any Armybuilder tool been updated yet?

[ibel]

3 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

On a different note: Has any Armybuilder tool been updated yet?

Not jet. I believe it will happen this Weekend or the next.

What do u think: Is Archon his Points "good" ?!

[Iradekhorne]

1 hour ago, ibel said:

Not jet. I believe it will happen this Weekend or the next.

What do u think: Is Archon his Points "good" ?!

The new Archaon? In my opinion absolutly not.

He have great survability and utility, not enought damage and rend to his points (he is literally halve of the army). He lost the oportunity of attack twice, dont rerroll any  and he dont have rend -3 in any of his attacks.

 

I i was his enemy, i just screen him and kill the rest lf his army xD.

With khorne, if he charge, maybe can have a bit more damage, but i feel is not enough.

I think miniatures like avalon on similar or other 3+ save monsters can tank it efectively.

But, maybe you can do things with it, anyway i think 1 unit of 6 varanguard + 1 utility hero are better and cheaper.

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

Fun news on my own army's front! I've been doing more testing, and the thing I've been least satisfied with has been my Chaos Knights. They're not bad by any means, but I gave them the Mark of Undivided because I was running mono-Undivided for lore reasons, and they don't benefit from it as much as objective taking units or Chosen who can take the Dread Banner for their start of game roll. Add to that an excess of targets for Chaotic Conduit and only one possible cast for it a turn, and I was having real problems with a pure Undivided loadout.

I hadn't been having trouble getting the charge with them more often than not, so I figured the Mark of Khorne would let them punch at the level I needed to for their role. But my lore still stood in the way--I was running a profane knightly order devoted to self-mastery who worshipped a shadowy entity that might or might not be Be'lakor. Then it clicked. Drawing some inspiration from Darkoath fluff and especially from the LotFP allegiance ability, I realized I could justify the Mark of Khorne on the knights by making it a ritual test. Before battles, they would bargain with Daemons of Khorne for greater fervor and rage, giving them the Mark effects. But they wouldn't keep it--the order would test if they could control their rage after the battle rather than succumbing to it. Those who managed to do this for multiple battles would join the inner circle of the order and once more take the Undvided Mark and the blessings of their shadowy patron. These guys would be represented by Varanguard when I have the chance to fit some in a list.

I'm always really happy when I can get game mechanics and lore to not just align, but complement each other, and this feels like a great example of constraints breeding creativity. I'm really happy with it, and will be testing the gameplay effects of the change tonight (and in the next few games to come--don't want to draw data from anecdotes). I think the effect should be both an improvement to effectiveness of my list and to the depth of my lore.

[Bayul]

1 hour ago, Iradekhorne said:

With khorne, if he charge, maybe can have a bit more damage, but i feel is not enough.

He's Undivided.

...and I am too lazy too read his warscroll properly.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Bayul

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

21 minutes ago, Bayul said:

He's Undivided.

Yeah, but he can benefit from a second Mark each game with one of his warscroll rules.

[Koala]

2 hours ago, Iradekhorne said:

The new Archaon? In my opinion absolutly not.

[...]

I i was his enemy, i just screen him and kill the rest lf his army xD.

[...]

But, maybe you can do things with it, anyway i think 1 unit of 6 varanguard + 1 utility hero are better and cheaper.

Now i am equally unsure of Archies final Powerlevel.

BUT his one use i can absolutely See is when you need a beatstick that can not be easily screend or baited. 

I mean 16" and fly? Sure he has a big base but that is still a lot of space covered...

Varanguard on the other hand are a lot slower and less flexible. But hit like a truck.

Sounds fair

 

[Grimrock]

Yeah Archaon is in a weird place right now. He's lost all the tools around him that made him really good without much to compensate. It is pretty big he can take slaanesh to run and charge or he can get a 3d6 charge from the spell, but once he gets stuck in he's not going to do a ton of damage against something with decent defenses. So he's fast and extremely resilient, but doesn't hit very hard. He just doesn't really provide anything for the army that you can't get cheaper and better elsewhere. For example a 10 man unit of knights has more wounds at the same save (albeit without the always on ward), is more than fast enough in legion of the first prince or with mark of slaanesh, hits way harder, and is about half the price. 

Personally I think he's no longer competitively viable. In theory that's fine because you dont need to only play competitive models right? Just play what's fun. The problem is he doesn't look fun anymore either. He lost a ton of his cool rules and a lot of synergy. Basically now he's just a huge bullet sponge that flies around the table being annoying and never dying.  That doesn't sound fun for me to play or for my opponent to play against.  

Also as an aside I'm super annoyed that he can't get marks outside of S2D anymore. I originally bought him before I started slaves because I figured I could always find a use for him in at least one of my armies. Even if he was no good in slaanesh maybe he'd be good in khorne for example. Now without marks though he's essentially faction locked to slaves and it just sucks. I had a little while of him being mediocre but fun in a few armies, then the book came out and he was so overpowered I didn't want to play him because I'd feel bad for my opponent, and now he's just so... bleh and boring that I don't want to play him either. 

Edited November 16, 2022 by Grimrock

[Ravinsild]

I want a big beat stick hero like the Megaboss on Maw-Krusha as a cool centerpiece model so I was actually looking at potentially Bela’kor instead of Archaon because they’re roughly the same price and size for a centerpiece and he looks pretty Killy.

[JackStreicher]

50 minutes ago, Ravinsild said:

looks pretty Killy

Don‘t be fooled: He‘s not

[Grimrock]

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

I want a big beat stick hero like the Megaboss on Maw-Krusha as a cool centerpiece model so I was actually looking at potentially Bela’kor instead of Archaon because they’re roughly the same price and size for a centerpiece and he looks pretty Killy.

If you want a best-stick specifically I definitely wouldn't go for Be'Lakor. Due to his keywords/mark he has access to precisely 0 buffs from the army (legion of the first prince notwithstanding), and his base stats juts aren't good enough to carry him through. His average damage is about 4-6 against a unit with a 4+ save and all out defense so maybe, just maybe, he'll kill a 5 wound foot hero. If he's a little lucky. If you use all out attack on him then his damage goes up to passable levels but you're a lot better off using it on better units like knights or varanguard. If you're taking him you're taking him to use The Dark Master and that's about it, apart from that ability he's a mediocre monster that usually bounces off his first meaningful combat and dies ingloriously to a unit of chaff since high volume attacks just shred him.

Don't get me wrong, he's a beautiful model. A joy to build and paint and perfectly acceptable to play. Just don't buy him thinking you're getting a combat monster like a mawkrusha because you'll be in for a world of disappointment.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Grimrock

[JackStreicher]

Different topic: Was there any other new Chaos Model (apart from the Lord on D. Mount) that isn’t up for sale yet?

[Lord Krungharr]

Don't have my tome yet (didn't get the box set but preordered the regular book).  Are Exalted Heroes just heroes and not Leaders?  Wondering if that would work, and it would be neat making a bunch of individually themed maniacs.

[Xasz]

19 minutes ago, JackStreicher said:

Different topic: Was there any other new Chaos Model (apart from the Lord on D. Mount) that isn’t up for sale yet?

• Exalted Champion
• Chaos Warriors -> new box with Halberd options, banner
• Chaos Knights -> new box with banner, musician
• Eternius -> allegedly not the same kit as the Lord on DM

[Bayul]

1 hour ago, Lord Krungharr said:

Don't have my tome yet (didn't get the box set but preordered the regular book).  Are Exalted Heroes just heroes and not Leaders?  Wondering if that would work, and it would be neat making a bunch of individually themed maniacs.

"Exalted Hero of Chaos" is listed as Leader.

What is the purpose of this new guy anyway? Slow HERO and MONSTER hunter? Cheap Cabalists caster hybrid? Eye of the Gods slot machine? 

edit: ...uh, like a Sorcerer Lord in Terminator Armor?

Edited November 16, 2022 by Bayul

[Grimrock]

51 minutes ago, Bayul said:

"Exalted Hero of Chaos" is listed as Leader.

What is the purpose of this new guy anyway? Slow HERO and MONSTER hunter? Cheap Cabalists caster hybrid? Eye of the Gods slot machine? 

edit: ...uh, like a Sorcerer Lord in Terminator Armor?

Not much purpose outside of meme lists where you take 6 undivided ones and try to generate as many daemon princes as you can. He's a pretty good cheap wizard in a cabalist army I guess.

Interesting note, since they made the dual axes 4+/4+ they actually have pretty much the same damage output as the weapon/shield (less if he gets his +1 attack for being near a hero/moster) so there's no reason to take dual axes. No idea why they didn't just leave them 3+/3+and let him be a half decent general fighter. Or make his Glory-Seeker something that benefits mass attacks instead of something that benefits higher quality attacks so he could be a hero hunter. Instead yet again we're left with one option that looks cool but is strictly worse than the other one. You'd think GW would have figured this out by now.

Edited November 16, 2022 by Grimrock

[Wraith]

15 hours ago, JackStreicher said:

Simply use the content of the new box

(should be around 1000 points)

 

I need to get other stuff finished before I start on those. I think I need to join that monthly painting contract thread in the painting & modelling section.

 

Looking at what is close to ready, I might change the list to this:

 

Ravagers - 1000pts - 2 drops

Chaos Lord on Karkadrak* - Slannesh, general, Dealer of Death - 220pt
Thedra* - binding damnation - 160pt

Godsworn Hunt* - 0pt
Chaos Knights* (5) - Slannesh, banner of slannesh - 230pt
Marauder Horse* (5) - undivided, javelins - 105pt
Marauder Horse* (5) - undivided, javelins - 105pt
Untamed Beasts* (9) - 90pt
Untamed Beasts (9) - 90pt

Battalion:
Battle Regiment*

 

Then I will work on the rest of the knights, the warriors and more cultists in December. If I get all that done, I might make January a demon month and build the demon prince (Tzeentch) along with some undivided demons waiting to be painted.

Could be April or May by the time I get around to Archaon and the Chosen.

[Ravinsild]

I have a low key Shooty meta in my area with Sylvaneth, Lumineth, Stormcast, Skaven, and other such armies. I’m thinking instead of Darkoath Chieftan and Darkoath Savagers for my screens/bodies list of running Furies and rushing them into enemy shooting units to tie them up, then retreating anytime they’re charged or would fight and then charging again over and over very similar to how manticore swarms and such things are used in Total War Warhammer 3 to tie up shooting units. Is this viable?