AoS 2 - Slaves to Darkness 2 Discussion

[ibel]

31 minutes ago, Rors said:

Within out own book a sorcerer can give him +1 to hit and wound.

no. Just for MORTAL Slaves...

 

32 minutes ago, Rors said:

The most directly impactful ones are going to give extra attacks: blood secrator, death bringer, wrath mongers, sigil. That's 4 additional attacks in total. A stoker for charge bonus and wound rer

Very very much support 4 just 1 Modell.

[Wraith]

I am going to send in an email to GW tomorrow with some changes I think could be made (I've done this before). I'll post them here to see what comments the suggestions might provoke. 

 

Suggestions for Changes to Slaves to Darkness Battletome

1/ Add Warshrine to list of units which an be given a banner.

At present only Warriors, Chosen and Knights can carry a banner. For people wanting to run a barbarian/Darkoath themed list, they either need to include a heavy unit (and spoil the aesthetic) or forego the banner.
The solution would be the given the banner to a suitable model which does fit in with the barbarian theme. The obvious choice is the warshrine, since this is the Totem at the centre of tribal armies. 

2/ Add Sphiranx and Formoroid to list of eye of gods units along with mortals and theridons.

These two are a bit under whelming since they lost the monster keyword. Both could conceivably count alongside mortals as recipients of the Dark Gods' favour. Easiest way is to just add Mortal keyword back to their war-scroll (old war-scrolls both had that keyword).

Note: Furies would not get Eye of God rolls, as the Gods despise them. Raptoryx should not get EoG either as they are not intelligent creatures.

 

[ChaosUndivided]

Well i got 10 Chosen for the price of 5 so i guess im on team Chosen now. Im leaning towards Slaanesh mark on them, i feel like the banner shoulda been strike first instead of +1 attack so im considering running a Lord on foot alongside them. 

I really like Cabalist making everyone a wiz feels like you really have a magic presence but no bonuses to unbinds or damage dealing spells outside of Manticore isn't exactly great.

[hot_boy_ronald]

Has anyone else had an issue with the code from the new StD book? 

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

9 hours ago, Wraith said:

OK, cool. Can they do all of spell, unbind a spell/endless spell, chant prayer/banish invocation in the same hero phase? Is there any precedent for a wizard/priest in other lists before this? I wonder if this will get FAQ'ed as some point.

There's no need for an FAQ, as nothing in the rules says or even suggests anything against it. In general, rules are additive and don't get in each other's way unless they outright contradict each other or are stated to do so somewhere.

[Boar]

1 hour ago, hot_boy_ronald said:

Has anyone else had an issue with the code from the new StD book? 

App will be updated after general release

[Ravinsild]

22 minutes ago, Boar said:

App will be updated after general release

Do we know when that will be?

[RocketPropelledGrenade]

1 hour ago, Ravinsild said:

Do we know when that will be?

We do not, sadly. All we know is it's an absolute minimum of three weeks out because it wasn't on the Sunday preorder window.

[Wraith]

So this was the email I sent in  the end. Nothing may come of it but we need to let the rules team know what we would like to guide their future choices. Some warscrolls that people want to get a rewrite will have to wait until the next battletome. Subtle changes we might succeed in getting now, rewrites of warscrolls won't happen until then.

 

Hi GW team,

 

 

I've been looking over the new battle-tome. Overall I find the new concepts to be exciting. I particularly like the Eye of the Gods rework. It is also good to see the main troop types get the boost they need. Warriors, Knights and Chosen were a bit weak in the last battle-tome. Generally, everything has been brought up to date. 

 

However there are a few minor tweaks that would make the new battle-tome more interesting beyond those three main units.

 

 

 

Suggestions for Changes to Slaves to Darkness Battletome

 

 

1/ Add Chaos Warshrine to list of units which can be given a banner.

 

At present only Warriors, Chosen and Knights can carry a banner. For people wanting to run a barbarian/Darkoath themed list, they either need to include a heavy unit (and spoil the aesthetic) or forego the banner.

The solution would be to grant the banner option to a suitable model which does fit in with the barbarian theme. The obvious choice is the Chaos Warshrine, since this is the Totem at the centre of tribal armies. 

 

 

 

2/ Add Sphiranx and Formoroid to list of eye of gods units along with mortals and Theridons.

 

These two are a bit under whelming since they lost the monster keyword. Both could conceivably count alongside mortals as recipients of the Dark Gods' favour. Easiest way is to just add Mortal keyword back to their war-scroll (old war-scrolls both had that keyword).

 

Note: Furies would not get Eye of God rolls, as the Gods despise them. Raptoryx should not get EoG either as they are not intelligent creatures.

 

 

3/ Change the Centaurion Marshal's "Marshal the Legions" ability to include Furies as well as mortal undivided.

 

The Legion of the First Prince furies really needs this boost as they got wacked hard with the allegiance rule changes. I really like the idea of Be'lakor bringing lots of undivided lessor demons. This rally improvement might keep them in as an attractive list build option.

 

 

 

Final Thoughts

 

The Legion of the First Prince could use some further development. As could the Darkoath theme, which is very popular. Perhaps we will see some improvements for these two sub-factions in future supplements or White Dwarf features? EG: could the four standard lessor demons become coalition for The Legion of the First Prince, rather than just allies? This way more demons can be included in the list. Maybe Darkoath could get Beast of Chaos monsters as a coalition choice? Surely there are other ideas to make these two much loved factions shine?

 

 

[Rors]

11 hours ago, ibel said:

no. Just for MORTAL Slaves...

 

Very very much support 4 just 1 Modell.

Sigh - I keep missing the mortal keyword scattered through this book.

 

Yes, it's not an effective way to spend points but the stated intention was to make a Khorne DP as killy as possible. 

[Ravinsild]

2 minutes ago, Rors said:

Sigh - I keep missing the mortal keyword scattered through this book.

 

Yes, it's not an effective way to spend points but the stated intention was to make a Khorne DP as killy as possible. 

Then I’ll revise my statement to “within reason”  

[Halkbat]

I am most disappointed in the warshrine the prayers are all much weaker than before and much more restricted in what units they can target.

[Grimrock]

25 minutes ago, Halkbat said:

I am most disappointed in the warshrine the prayers are all much weaker than before and much more restricted in what units they can target.

Yeah the nerf to the shrine is probably my biggest disappointment in the new book. All they needed to do was get rid of the undivided prayer or limit it to only chant/target based on the warshrine mark. They didn't need to go and do all of that AND nerf the rest of the prayers into the ground. +1 to charge for a single khorne unit? Who in their right mind thought that was a valid buff? If it was +1D6 maybe, but as is it's not even worth the risk of maybe taking a mortal wound from rolling a 1, let alone the fact that you could put curse or heal on it instead. It's a shame too because it's a nice big centerpiece model for the army, but someone writing the book must have been done dirty by it in one too many games. 

Edited November 14, 2022 by Grimrock

[Agent of Chaos]

2 hours ago, Rors said:

Sigh - I keep missing the mortal keyword scattered through this book.

Yes, it's not an effective way to spend points but the stated intention was to make a Khorne DP as killy as possible. 

Same applies to the Aspiring Deathbringer; his +1 Attack is for mortal khorne only. Only universal khorne attack buffs are bloodsecrator (who will interfere with our own wizards) and wrathmongers. 

[Agent of Chaos]

Agreed on the shrine. They fixed its damage table nicely but with the restrictions/nerfs on prayers and considering that Oracular Visions is a 6+ ward and two eye of the gods table rolls can give a 6+ ward or better, it feels a bit redundant and overcosted. 

[Rors]

The only warshrine use I see is with slanesh. You can meme and give Sigvald 3d6 charge/attacks.

[Wraith]

5 hours ago, Grimrock said:

Yeah the nerf to the shrine is probably my biggest disappointment in the new book. All they needed to do was get rid of the undivided prayer or limit it to only chant/target based on the warshrine mark. They didn't need to go and do all of that AND nerf the rest of the prayers into the ground. +1 to charge for a single khorne unit? Who in their right mind thought that was a valid buff? If it was +1D6 maybe, but as is it's not even worth the risk of maybe taking a mortal wound from rolling a 1, let alone the fact that you could put curse or heal on it instead. It's a shame too because it's a nice big centerpiece model for the army, but someone writing the book must have been done dirty by it in one too many games. 

 There are a few odd nerfs in the book. Why do marauders with axe/shield get only one attack but marauders with flails get two attacks and hit on 3+ ? It would seem they should get the same number of attacks, axe/shield increases save, the flails increase to hit, as per all out attack/all out defense. Seems weird to me. Could be an error? But then the marauder horse get the same treatment, with flails getting one more attack. It is just odd!

 

Regarding the undivided and Khorne prayers, they could be easily fixed by changing them to all units of that mark within 18" get the effect. That would make those two prayers worth using. The other three prayers have to remain a single unit target, as the warshrine will reek havoc as an ally in other chaos lists if changed to all units with the appropriate keyword within range. Imagine all Nurgle units within 18" getting +1 to wound...gasp!!!

 

There were a lot of other nerfs. The reroll spells/abilities are gone. Bravery debuffs are gone. Most movement debuffs are gone. Summoning has gone, except the eye of the gods spawn/DP and ravagers half destroyed unit coming back. Healing has mostly gone, except watered down Despoilers ability.

 

To be fair, a lot of those are due to bringing the BT up to AOS3 standards. Most summoning and healing is going, replaced by rally/heroic actions/prayers. The rerolls are a bit OP in the new rules with limits on mods. The marauder charge was silly anyway, as was the Khorne DP blood slicked ground ability. Some things had to go.

 

Not sure why we lost the bravery debuffs, though. Why aren't people scared of us any more? Perhaps Archaeon launched a public relationships campaign to persuade the people of the Mortal Realms that we aren't really that evil and it is all really just Sigmarite propaganda that Slaves to Darkness are the bad guys? 😜

Edited November 15, 2022 by Wraith

[Magnus The Blue]

5 hours ago, Wraith said:

 Not sure why we lost the bravery debuffs, though. Why aren't people scared of us any more? Perhaps Archaeon launched a public relationships campaign to persuade the people of the Mortal Realms that we aren't really that evil and it is all really just Sigmarite propaganda that Slaves to Darkness are the bad guys? 😜

They have been replaced (sparingly) with anti rally/inspiring presence counters (the same happened to Sons), these are generally more useful and also require less book keeping.  Happy days. 

[Agent of Chaos]

Had my first game with the new tome today; 1500 points vs Seraphon. In summary, this tome slaps! A few key thoughts for those that want the brief version;

• Chaos Knights with buffs are absolute monsters. Even unbuffed they present a problem. So good to have these guys back in their rightful place. I know many are saying khorne is the way to go but I actually think Slaanesh might be the way (details below);
• The 3D6 cast heroic action is amazing. Having a reroll up your sleeve via cogs or master of magic is highly recommended but so good to get the most important spells off when you need to;
• On top of that, Cabalists is bonkers. Going from 3 casts to 6 gives you so much flexibility. It so good not having to spend an artifact slot on arcane tome in order to get more out of a sorcerer lord and a 3 cast gaunt summoner with the whole lore at his disposal and +1 to cast is just brilliant;
• The Eye of the Gods table does work. In 3 turns I rolled 4 times, twice from the spell and once for killing a hero/monster and got great results every time;
• I suppose the Manticore is capable in a fight but I think his true role is as a road block. With base 3+ save & 5+ ward against mortals, plus buffs like mystic shield, finest hour and all out defence he can really tank damage. I needed a slaanesh hero in my list but if it was a 2000 point game he would def be marked nurgle. 

I versed a pretty standard Seraphon list; Thunder Lizards with a Slaan, 5 saurus guard, Engine of the Gods, Stegadon with bow, Skink Priest, 20 Skinks, 10 Saurus and a salamander.

I ran Cabalists with Nurgle Sorcerer Lord General with Master of Magic, a Gaunt Summoner & Slaanesh Lord on Manticore with Crown of the Oppressor and Flaming Weapon (all in warlord). For Units I took 5 x Khorne Knights, 5 x Slaanesh Knights with the slaanesh banner, 10 x nurgle warriors with the nurgle banner, 8 x iron golems and 1 x slaanesh chariot (rounding out warlord). (we weren't using the GHB battalions; otherwise the knights would have been bounty hunters and the warriors/iron golems expert conquerors). 

Theory was to have the sorcerer lord use the 3D6 cast to put daemonic speed and daemonic power on the slaanesh knights. Gaunt Summoner gives them mystic shield and manticore lord makes them run and charge. The khorne knights would hang back as the second wave for when the enemy had come closer and I didnt need to run & charge.

I had deployed the knights pretty far back to avoid any alpha striking but they easily made the 14" charge needed to delete the saurus warriors holding the objective (even with the damage reduced back to 1 the mount attacks were not required). This is why I think Slaanesh is the superior mark; they get the +1 attack from the banner (covering the khorne mark), daemonic power gives both +1 to hit and wound, (covering the khorne banner and saving a CP on all out attack) plus they have access to run & charge with +1 to both. There is probably an argument for khorne in knights of the empty throne and/or if you are bringing some blades of khorne buff heroes like a bloodstoker (until GW closes that option), however in cabalists and probably host of the everchosen I think its slaanesh for your alpha strike knight unit.

Winning the double turn, I threw the same buffs on the manticore lord who made himself run and charge and between him and the knights they wiped the saurus guard and slaan (the manticore completely wiffed so it was all the unbuffed knights). The manticore then tanked the engine of the gods for 2 turns before killing it and rolling an 8 on the eye of the gods. The Manticore then one-shotted the other stegadon after tanking its charge (the extra rend from eye of the gods was very helpful), getting himself a 6+ ward from the eye of the gods before the game was called there at bottom of round 3. 

Meanwhile the Gaunt Summoner had twice cast chaos conduit on the Sorcerer Lord and I rolled 12 & 11 (it was one of those games). I didnt want him to turn into a daemon prince because then he couldnt do the 3D6 cast so I made him a 3 cast wizard and then gave him a 5+ ward as casting 4 just seemed ridiculous. 

I can't even tell you how the 10 chaos warriors went because my opponent never came close to them! I do feel that 20 nurgle warriors with the banner is overkill and would love it if we could just pay 330 points for 15 as that feels like all you would need. 

I've got a one day event coming up in a few weeks so will be looking at ways to flesh this list out to 2000 points and hopefully wreck some more face!

[Halkbat]

Maybe I missed it in your list building how did you get 2 banners in cabalists did you use a battalion for an extra enhancement?

[MitGas]

On 11/13/2022 at 3:59 PM, Bayul said:

My new weird color scheme for my Tzeentch army I created in Impcat. Inspired by Total War: Warhammer:

I‘ve actually got a similar base color, although I wanted to recreate the Final Fantasy 7 look where the shadows are usually blue or dark teal. For it (well, fir my base color) I mixed a dark silver (I think it was dark Aluminium by Vallejo Metal Color) with Turquoise Deep ink (by Liquitex), that will net you that exact shade. I put a bit more blue ink into my own mix (and use blue mixed with a darker metal shade for the shadows and a mostly untouched vanilla for highlights) but it‘s a great combo, especially if airbrushed. Only drawback us that you need to shake it all the time if you premix it like I did. Greenish (often calld „old“) golds work extremely well with it, you instantly get that cold look. Just thought I‘d share a bit as I did a lot of mixing to find „my“ color. Unfortunately I‘m not home so I got no pictures but I‘m convinced you‘d be very happy with the mix. 👍 maybe I got some pictures of test minis on my phone… 🤔

not the best picture but it shows you that the mix is pretty close to your Image

 

 

Edited November 15, 2022 by MitGas
Added pic

[Ravinsild]

9 hours ago, Agent of Chaos said:

Had my first game with the new tome today; 1500 points vs Seraphon. In summary, this tome slaps! A few key thoughts for those that want the brief version;

• Chaos Knights with buffs are absolute monsters. Even unbuffed they present a problem. So good to have these guys back in their rightful place. I know many are saying khorne is the way to go but I actually think Slaanesh might be the way (details below);
• The 3D6 cast heroic action is amazing. Having a reroll up your sleeve via cogs or master of magic is highly recommended but so good to get the most important spells off when you need to;
• On top of that, Cabalists is bonkers. Going from 3 casts to 6 gives you so much flexibility. It so good not having to spend an artifact slot on arcane tome in order to get more out of a sorcerer lord and a 3 cast gaunt summoner with the whole lore at his disposal and +1 to cast is just brilliant;
• The Eye of the Gods table does work. In 3 turns I rolled 4 times, twice from the spell and once for killing a hero/monster and got great results every time;
• I suppose the Manticore is capable in a fight but I think his true role is as a road block. With base 3+ save & 5+ ward against mortals, plus buffs like mystic shield, finest hour and all out defence he can really tank damage. I needed a slaanesh hero in my list but if it was a 2000 point game he would def be marked nurgle. 

I versed a pretty standard Seraphon list; Thunder Lizards with a Slaan, 5 saurus guard, Engine of the Gods, Stegadon with bow, Skink Priest, 20 Skinks, 10 Saurus and a salamander.

I ran Cabalists with Nurgle Sorcerer Lord General with Master of Magic, a Gaunt Summoner & Slaanesh Lord on Manticore with Crown of the Oppressor and Flaming Weapon (all in warlord). For Units I took 5 x Khorne Knights, 5 x Slaanesh Knights with the slaanesh banner, 10 x nurgle warriors with the nurgle banner, 8 x iron golems and 1 x slaanesh chariot (rounding out warlord). (we weren't using the GHB battalions; otherwise the knights would have been bounty hunters and the warriors/iron golems expert conquerors). 

Theory was to have the sorcerer lord use the 3D6 cast to put daemonic speed and daemonic power on the slaanesh knights. Gaunt Summoner gives them mystic shield and manticore lord makes them run and charge. The khorne knights would hang back as the second wave for when the enemy had come closer and I didnt need to run & charge.

I had deployed the knights pretty far back to avoid any alpha striking but they easily made the 14" charge needed to delete the saurus warriors holding the objective (even with the damage reduced back to 1 the mount attacks were not required). This is why I think Slaanesh is the superior mark; they get the +1 attack from the banner (covering the khorne mark), daemonic power gives both +1 to hit and wound, (covering the khorne banner and saving a CP on all out attack) plus they have access to run & charge with +1 to both. There is probably an argument for khorne in knights of the empty throne and/or if you are bringing some blades of khorne buff heroes like a bloodstoker (until GW closes that option), however in cabalists and probably host of the everchosen I think its slaanesh for your alpha strike knight unit.

Winning the double turn, I threw the same buffs on the manticore lord who made himself run and charge and between him and the knights they wiped the saurus guard and slaan (the manticore completely wiffed so it was all the unbuffed knights). The manticore then tanked the engine of the gods for 2 turns before killing it and rolling an 8 on the eye of the gods. The Manticore then one-shotted the other stegadon after tanking its charge (the extra rend from eye of the gods was very helpful), getting himself a 6+ ward from the eye of the gods before the game was called there at bottom of round 3. 

Meanwhile the Gaunt Summoner had twice cast chaos conduit on the Sorcerer Lord and I rolled 12 & 11 (it was one of those games). I didnt want him to turn into a daemon prince because then he couldnt do the 3D6 cast so I made him a 3 cast wizard and then gave him a 5+ ward as casting 4 just seemed ridiculous. 

I can't even tell you how the 10 chaos warriors went because my opponent never came close to them! I do feel that 20 nurgle warriors with the banner is overkill and would love it if we could just pay 330 points for 15 as that feels like all you would need. 

I've got a one day event coming up in a few weeks so will be looking at ways to flesh this list out to 2000 points and hopefully wreck some more face!

I’m so keen on running a Manticore Lord. I had an old list that I just don’t think will work anymore with all the points increases which is quite frustrating. The battalions and general etc literally don’t matter anymore so I didn’t bother but the list looked like this:

Army Faction: Slaves to Darkness
    - Army Type: Ravagers

LEADER

1 x Chaos Lord on Manticore (255)

1 x Chaos Sorcerer Lord (135)

1 x Chaos Lord (120)

1 x Chaos Lord on Karkadrak (225)

BATTLELINE

10 x Chaos Warriors (200)

10 x Chaos Warriors (200)

5 x Chaos Knights (170)

5 x Chaos Knights (170)

BEHEMOTH

1 x Chaos Warshrine (215)

OTHER

5 x Chosen (145)

5 x Chosen (145)

TOTAL POINTS: (1980/2000)

Created with Warhammer Age of Sigmar: The App

however I don’t think even with dropping the Warshrine this list is legal because they hiked the prices on all the stuff too much. I’m really sad because I want an excuse to run a manticore lord and also now a daemon Prince cuz of the models. Wondering how I can work it out. This is my favorite list because every single model is a variant of the chaos warrior aesthetic and nothing is wasted. No chaff, no off models, every single model is on theme and on point completely and it looks like one big uniform army all black, no faces, just a tide of darkness and steel come to ravage the lands of all who oppose Khorne. 

[Bayul]

@MitGas Oh, this is very muted, but good. Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pXQhmlfbqs

My army will be very bright, golden armour trims and Screamer Pink capes. My Gaunt Summoner will be clown taxi popping out Chosen and Acolytes. More on this side of the spectrum: 

 

[MitGas]

9 minutes ago, Bayul said:

@MitGas Oh, this is very muted, but good. Reminds me of this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0pXQhmlfbqs

My army will be very bright, golden armour trims and Screamer Pink capes. My Gaunt Summoner will be clown taxi popping out Chosen and Acolytes. More on this side of the spectrum: 

 

It‘s actually a bit less muted in person but I don‘t have many images on my phone.  I like where you are going with yours - I‘m certainly going for a bit more muted Tzeentch look (so that glowy stuff like orbs pop even more) but I like the punchy look just as much. You can easily make your metal more saturated by simply adding more ink to it. Only drawback is that you might really wanna airbrush it then as it becomes a bit thin/runny although less of a problem if you don‘t use the vallejo metal colors (still possible to use with a brush though, don‘t get me wrong). Either way, looking forward to your take! 👍

[Agent of Chaos]

4 hours ago, Halkbat said:

Maybe I missed it in your list building how did you get 2 banners in cabalists did you use a battalion for an extra enhancement?

I had the warlord battalion so used the extra enhancement to take the 2nd banner.